AI-Powered Drone Swarms Have Now Entered the Battlefield (msn.com) 90
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the Wall Street Journal: On a recent evening, a trio of Ukrainian drones flew under the cover of darkness to a Russian position and decided among themselves exactly when to strike. The assault was an example of how Ukraine is using artificial intelligence to allow groups of drones to coordinate with each other to attack Russian positions, an innovative technology that heralds the future of battle. Military experts say the so-called swarm technology represents the next frontier for drone warfare because of its potential to allow tens or even thousands of drones -- or swarms -- to be deployed at once to overwhelm the defenses of a target, be that a city or an individual military asset.
Ukraine has conducted swarm attacks on the battlefield for much of the past year, according to a senior Ukrainian officer and the company that makes the software. The previously unreported attacks are the first known routine use of swarm technology in combat, analysts say, underscoring Ukraine's position at the vanguard of drone warfare. [...] The drones deployed in the recent Ukrainian attack used technology developed by local company Swarmer. Its software allows groups of drones to decide which one strikes first and adapt if, for instance, one runs out of battery, said Chief Executive Serhii Kupriienko. "You set the target and the drones do the rest," Kupriienko said. "They work together, they adapt."
Swarmer's technology was first deployed by Ukrainian forces to lay mines around a year ago. It has since been used to target Russian soldiers, equipment and infrastructure, according to the Ukrainian military officer. The officer said his drone unit had used Swarmer's technology more than a hundred times, and that other units also have UAVs equipped with the software. He typically uses the technology with three drones, but says others have deployed it with as many as eight. Kupriienko said the software has been tested with up to 25 drones. A common operation uses a reconnaissance drone and two other UAVs carrying small bombs to target a Russian trench, the officer said. An operator gives the drones a target zone to look for an enemy position and the command to engage when it is spotted. The reconnaissance drone maps the route for the bombers to follow and the drones themselves then decide when, and which one, will release the bombs over the target.
Ukraine has conducted swarm attacks on the battlefield for much of the past year, according to a senior Ukrainian officer and the company that makes the software. The previously unreported attacks are the first known routine use of swarm technology in combat, analysts say, underscoring Ukraine's position at the vanguard of drone warfare. [...] The drones deployed in the recent Ukrainian attack used technology developed by local company Swarmer. Its software allows groups of drones to decide which one strikes first and adapt if, for instance, one runs out of battery, said Chief Executive Serhii Kupriienko. "You set the target and the drones do the rest," Kupriienko said. "They work together, they adapt."
Swarmer's technology was first deployed by Ukrainian forces to lay mines around a year ago. It has since been used to target Russian soldiers, equipment and infrastructure, according to the Ukrainian military officer. The officer said his drone unit had used Swarmer's technology more than a hundred times, and that other units also have UAVs equipped with the software. He typically uses the technology with three drones, but says others have deployed it with as many as eight. Kupriienko said the software has been tested with up to 25 drones. A common operation uses a reconnaissance drone and two other UAVs carrying small bombs to target a Russian trench, the officer said. An operator gives the drones a target zone to look for an enemy position and the command to engage when it is spotted. The reconnaissance drone maps the route for the bombers to follow and the drones themselves then decide when, and which one, will release the bombs over the target.
Great news (Score:4, Interesting)
Maybe we can finally designate a war fighting location, like the Gobi desert, and send all leaders who want to fight wars, from putin and netanyahu to trump and their drone armies there and have them fight it out?
And then just imprison whoever survives for drone crimes?
Re: Great news (Score:1)
What if AI makes war a hallucination, sending messages that violence has been done so that the generals are satisfied, but it's all just a reverse Ender's Game?
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We've had this since 1990 - it was called "Civilization", IIRC. We just have to plug it into the sensory inputs of the culprits.
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let's not forget the sequel either ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
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In every war there is bad guy. Sometimes there is a good guy, but often there are two bad guys. Netanyahu is a bad guy, but so are the Hamas.
The bad guys ALWAYS claim to be the good guy. Right now, they do not bother to make good arguments, but if they had a system anything close to yours, their arguments would be better.
Your method ends up killing the good guys when they do exist.
It would also end up killing idiots that fell for bad arguments (George Bush comes to mind).
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Your method ends up killing the good guys
How?
Re:Great news (Score:5, Insightful)
> Netanyahu is a bad guy, but so are the Hamas.
Everybody is a bad guy/gal. George Bush killed innocent civilians with his actions. So did Stalin and Hitler. Scale matters.
Re: Great news (Score:2)
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No. If you use weapons of war and you kill people with them, you are responsible. There's no accident.
"Sorry sir, I was trying to kill, but accidentally killed instead, so it didn't count. I've learned my lesson, from now on I'll kill only without accidentally killing, unless I kill accidentally. But don't call me a murderer, I only kill people who need to be killed by me. Except for the accidental kills. Those are accidental, but they only happened because I was trying to kill and ended up killing instead
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No. If you use weapons of war and you kill people with them, you are responsible. There's no accident.
"Sorry sir, I was trying to kill, but accidentally killed instead, so it didn't count. I've learned my lesson, from now on I'll kill only without accidentally killing, unless I kill accidentally. But don't call me a murderer, I only kill people who need to be killed by me. Except for the accidental kills. Those are accidental, but they only happened because I was trying to kill and ended up killing instead. I'm a good killer, really!"
Will it be an accident if the above “oops” statement comes from Drone Commader AI in 5 years or less?
Whose fault is it exactly when humanity is fucking stupid enough to turn Skynet into reality?
As if blame is gonna really matter then. The fate we made, for ourselves.
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No. You are using sociopath logic and are immensely wrong. This is an idea that bad guys use to excuse their actions.
Yes, no one is perfect, but things exist on a scale. The fact that no one is 100% Good does not mean that people that are 90% good are still 'bad'. Yes it is hard to decide about people that are close to 50%. Many people are clearly over 90% good and others are clearly less than 10%.
There are people that are mostly good (over 75%), people that are mostly bad (under 25%) and mediocre peop
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Israel did not start it, Hamas did.
Hamas is the result of Israel's actions. Everyone talks about October 7th, but no one mentions October 4th, 5th, and 6th where Israel deliberately targeted civilians. Nor do people want to mention the thousands of Palestinians held in Israeli jails undergoing torture all because they resisted the occupation. The same with all the Jewish terror attacks [time.com] against Palestinians [npr.org].
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The only question is how many more future Hamas recruits are being created by the mass murders taking place now. Quite a lot is my estimate.
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Hamas is the result of Israel's actions
Indeed. Israel unilaterally left Gaza, forcibly moving Israeli settlers from there. So HAMAS got free reign to build their little fascist state that lavishly paid the inner HAMAS members, while keeping the general population desperately poor, and spending money on propaganda for gullible fools.
Everyone talks about October 7th, but no one mentions October 4th, 5th, and 6th where Israel deliberately targeted civilians.
Proof?
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Maybe we can finally designate a war fighting location, like the Gobi desert, and send all leaders who want to fight wars, from putin and netanyahu to trump and their drone armies there and have them fight it out?
And then just imprison whoever survives for drone crimes?
The Fletcher Memorial Home.
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+1
They can listen to David Gilmour tuning his guitar while they fight.
Re: Great news (Score:3)
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Trump don't want wars.
Yes, he prefers occupation without fighting, that's why he's attacking cities in his home country with the national guard.
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English, motherfucker, do you speak it?
Re: Great news (Score:2)
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Maybe we can finally designate a war fighting location, like the Gobi desert ...
ROBOT JOX! https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
I swear, that dystopian future, as batshit crazy as it is, seems more and more likely every day. Companies are already competing for best rockets to get to space; autonomous drones are fighting each other and humans; the big countries with nukes can't resist war but the people don't want to be directly involved... let them fight it out in a wasteland with giant robots and make it entertainment!?!
Anyway... great movie if you haven't seen it :-)
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War profiteering .. (Score:2)
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https://ssi.armywarcollege.edu... [armywarcollege.edu]
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Putin invaded in hopes of profiting from everything Ukraine had. That has clearly not gone according to plan.
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That would be a "better" goal than the one I suspect he really had, which is simply to restore Russia to some former idea of glory- to undo the losses of the collapse.
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Either way he wanted territory, but he isn't getting it. At least not much anyway.
Re:War profiteering .. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think that was his goal at all.
Well then you're stupid. Putin wants to claim the vast oil and gas basins in Ukraine. Putin wants warm water ports, domination over the Black Sea, and a land bridge into Southeastern Europe. Putin wants Ukraine's oil and gas pipelines and all the leverage over Europe that comes with them. Putin wants the mighty industrial base that was Ukraine under the Soviets, where much of the very best of the Soviet Union's technology and industry were created and built. Putin wants the immense bread basket of the Ukrainian plains, as depicted in the flag of Ukraine, and full control of these immense food resources as leverage over dependent nations in Africa and the Middle East. Putin wants the prestige of conquering a neighbor in Europe and making the world accept it.
So stop being stupid.
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Ukraine has nearly no oil reserves, and Russia has the 8th largest reserves in the world.
You are a complete fucking moron.
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Ukraine has nearly no oil reserves
The Prilukskoye field in Donetsk has 600M bbl of proven oil reserves. In 2013 the Budishchansko-Chutovskoye field was discovered. Reserves are at least 100M bbl based on initial estimates, but no one really knows the full potential because it hasn't been developed.
The truth is that no one knows the full extent of oil in Ukraine. Oil wells that were tapped out in the 70's in Ukraine are later found to have more oil because modern seismology and recover technology is better than 1970's Soviet technology.
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Russia's is nearly triple it.
There is one thing that keeps Ukraine going- and that's wheat. Southern Russia has that too.
Ukraine was no mighty "industrial base" in the Soviet Union.
The Donbas was one of 5 industrial areas in the Soviet Union, and the smallest that mattered, and the only reason it did matter was for its coal mining and the metal production it fueled.
You're regurgitatin
Re:War profiteering .. (Score:4, Interesting)
Most drones are made by small companies in Ukraine.
There's not much profit.
The frames are often made with 3D printers.
Most of the components come from China, but brushless motors and semiconductors are dual-use and sold in competitive markets on thin margins.
Drones aren't where the profits are.
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Most of the components come from China, but brushless motors and semiconductors are dual-use and sold in competitive markets on thin margins.
The brushless motors they are using are designed specifically for use with multicopters, and the semiconductors that control those motors are designed specifically to control brushless motors. They have no other purpose.
Drones aren't where the profits are.
That part is true. Missiles are much more profitable.
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When was it that we were told ... (Score:3)
that AI would never be used in war or to kill humans ? It was not very long ago.
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Did anyone actually believe that?
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that AI would never be used in war or to kill humans ?
Everyone knew that was idealistic nonsense that would be discarded when the SHTF.
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"AI" has been killing people for decades, it's just that now instead of expensive missiles the attacks can be carried out by cheap drones.
The Russians had a system in the 80s where they could fire a salvo of missiles at a general area where they thought the enemy was, and those missiles would then independently go find and select targets. One of the group would fly higher so it could use its radar to spot targets, and the group would then distribute them among its members. If the high flying one was shot do
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I don't remember anyone telling me that.
Indeed, all I remember is about a century's worth of science fiction telling me that it will happen.
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Autonomous drones are older than what people call "Gen AI". And nobody believed that AI (just like most other tech) wouldn't find one of its main uses in military.
Here is a paper from 2018: https://arxiv.org/abs/1804.027... [arxiv.org]
Have a look at section 5. People are aware that their work could be misused for harmful purposes but this is not a good reason to halt research, as someone else will conduct similar research, possibly only for military purposes, and we still end up with autonomous drones, while people wan
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Before you laugh at the whole paper, have a look at its citation count. Google Scholar lists 36503 papers citing it.
We were told that....by naive fools. (Score:2)
War is human nature as with with other species evolved to wage it of necessity. Be ready to kill or prepare to die. Pacifism is surrender.
Fear of AI was fanned by the leftist products of over a century of Russian global subversion intended to weaken secular democracy at which it was often effective.
Killing works. There is nothing wrong with killing Communists and their various hellspawn. Considering them humans capable of redemption is a mistake. They should be othered and erased without pity.
Righteously us
Stanislav Lem predicted drone swarms (Score:2)
Way back in the seventies in his book "The Futurological Congress" if I am not mistaken.
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Re:Stanislav Lem predicted drone swarms (Score:4, Informative)
The Invincible, 1964.
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Re:Stanislav Lem predicted drone swarms (Score:5, Interesting)
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In video game, i remind starcraft. With the protoss carrier. And to a lesser extent the reaver. 1998.
Who is _we_ (Score:3)
-- The Gulag Archipelago, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, 1973.
The Russian is arguing evil protects evil and thus, the duplicity of man means no-one can do anything bad. The problem is, that same duplicity allows mass murders to call themselves a "good guy".
Goosebumps and Gamechangers (Score:1)
scary (Score:5, Insightful)
Why are we applauding this?
We've taught machines how to kill us. Doesn't matter which side did it first, there is no way this has a good ending. No, not because of machine overlords and AI uprising - because it removes accountability and the last remnants of warfare that's not utterly "kill anything that moves".
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We have all but removed them already. In many kills these days, a human presses a button and that's about it.
But yes, removing them entirely removes that last bit of accountability. Next time a drone slaughters a market place full of civilians with no terrorist anywhere in sight, we won't even have someone to put on trial.
Well, we can try with the LLM making the decision. I'm sure it'll apologize a lot and invent a number of threats to justify its actions, if current AI is any indication.
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I am just waiting for swarm bots to determine a shelter for civilians gets glassed because they determined it was a "hostile army". You could even go farther for an enemy to make it look, just enough, to fool an AI but not a human operator. War is just an extension of Politics they say.
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War is the failure of politics, not the continuation.
Not really news (Score:3, Informative)
Good Book - "Kill Decision" by Daniel Suarez (Score:2)
FYI - a really good book to read.
Obligatory (Score:1)
I understand, but not a good thing (Score:1)
Yes, I understand that the Ukrainians are desperate... but this easily becomes, say, the IDF doing this to Gazans.
Or, to you fans of it, for the FBI to do it to you.
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but this easily becomes, say, the IDF doing this to Gazans.
And why is this bad? Taking out HAMAS leaders while not harming civilians is good in my book.
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Look, Islamophobic racist asshole, they're double-tapping a freakin' HOSPITAL, oh, right, all Hamas.
The IDF said, when this started, there were 30,000 Hamas. There are now well over 60k dead, and they say Hamas is still there. So, 40k or more CIVILIANS DEAD, including women and children. (Those that they haven't starved yet.)
You're an ignorant idiot, and a murderous one at that.
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On Tuesday, the IDF said an initial inquiry found that troops had identified a camera positioned by Hamas in the area of the hospital "used to observe the activity of IDF troops"
Terrorists using hospitals for military purposes. How usual of you anti-semitic genocidal maniacs. You also LOVE riding in ambulances and then complaining when you get blown up. Or using children as shields.
Mind you, Israel admitted the responsibility, unlike genocidal HAMAS terrorists who are never wrong.
going down a dark path... (Score:1)
Interesting mastery of the technology. (Score:2)
Most of the comments here, especially the first, are extremely stupid. I wonder if it is because it is a subject touching Ukraine and all Russian bots and pro-Russian useful idiots are coming out of the woodwork.
Anyway, interesting quick mastery of the technology. I hear they receive discreet technological aid to be more and more self-reliant. Today, Ukraine builds 55% of its weapons, Europe 25% and the USA 20%. But during the Soviet times they built 40% of the Soviet weapons. Korolev was Ukrainian, Klimov