Consumer Reports Asks Microsoft To Keep Supporting Windows 10 (theverge.com) 57
Consumer Reports has urged Microsoft to keep supporting Windows 10 beyond its October 2025 cutoff, saying the move will "strand millions of consumers" who have machines incompatible with Windows 11. The Verge reports: As noted by Consumer Reports, data suggests that around 46.2 percent of people around the world still use Windows 10 as of August 2025, while around 200 to 400 million PCs can't be upgraded to Windows 11 due to missing hardware requirements.
In the letter, Consumer Reports calls Microsoft "hypocritical" for urging customers to upgrade to Windows 11 to bolster cybersecurity, but then leaving Windows 10 devices susceptible to cyberattacks. It also calls out the $30 fee Microsoft charges customers for "a mere one-year extension to preserve their machine's security," as well as the free support options that force people to use Microsoft products, allowing the company to "eke out a bit of market share over competitors."
Consumer Reports asks that Microsoft continue providing support for Windows 10 computers for free until more people have upgraded to Windows 11.
In the letter, Consumer Reports calls Microsoft "hypocritical" for urging customers to upgrade to Windows 11 to bolster cybersecurity, but then leaving Windows 10 devices susceptible to cyberattacks. It also calls out the $30 fee Microsoft charges customers for "a mere one-year extension to preserve their machine's security," as well as the free support options that force people to use Microsoft products, allowing the company to "eke out a bit of market share over competitors."
Consumer Reports asks that Microsoft continue providing support for Windows 10 computers for free until more people have upgraded to Windows 11.
Everyone start handing out DVDs and USBs of Linux. (Score:4, Interesting)
It takes an hour or two to reimage most systems to run a modern Linux distro that will run FOOS versions of most software, all the browser based stuff, and more and more games every day (many games are running BETTER under Linux then Windows 11).
It's free, easy, and unchains people from Microsoft and Apple.
It just takes people making the plunge to install it as a dual boot option on their system until they no longer requires the Windows installation.
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Not always. I have a laptop whose Wifi refused to work correctly under Linux. Spent a couple hours trying to get it to work correctly too.
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A USB Wifi stick that is supported by Linux is like $10. Don't wrangle drivers, but look for a cheap USB stick and do a short search if it has a Linux supported chipset. Today most of them are well-supported out of the box and you just plug it in and get asked which Wifi you want to connect to.
Re: Everyone start handing out DVDs and USBs of Li (Score:1)
Re: Everyone start handing out DVDs and USBs of Li (Score:1)
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Installing Windows or *any* OS is IMPOSSIBLE for the standard Windows user. Using a word processor and browser, on the other hand, is about the same on either platform. As anecdotal evidence I offer my neighbor who is 80 years old and computer illiterate. Has just as much success (and trouble) navigating Cinnamon on Linux Mint as he did on Windows. So far he's been running Mint for five years and I have to drop by about once a year usually to provide some assistance, but I used to have to do more than t
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Assuming you're not dual-booting, the hardest part of installing Kubuntu or Mint is setting the BIOS to boot from the USB drive. After than, even an average Windows user can install them. Plug in the drive, reboot, and the sequence is something like: Next, Next, enter the username and password you want, next, next, wait about 10-15 minutes, done, reboot into your newly installed Linux.
Installing Kubuntu or Mint is WAY easier than installing Windows (I know, most users don't install Windows). I had to instal
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So a person that is running a ten year-old computer should just partition their drive, install a new OS and learn Linux? That's your answer?
While they're at it, why not re-arrange they keys on their keyboard to be Dvorak layout, since, as we all know, the the QWERTY keyboard was designed to intentionally slow-down typists, Dvorak was designed to increase typing speed.
You're acting like a suitable replacement PC for most users isn't available off Amazon for about $100-200 and fits in an overcoat pocket.
I lov
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I love how people are acting surprised when this was announced FOUR YEARS AGO FFS...
This generation had a Real ID Act passed in 2005. It was supposed to take effect in 3 years, in 2008. In reality, 20 years later they are mostly there. "On January 14, 2025, the Transportation Security Administration maintained in principle the deadline of May 7, 2025, but allowed flexible enforcement, for example by warning holders of noncompliant documents rather than refusing them altogether, until May 5, 2027."
Microsoft and the government are not the same, but we have a cultural history of holding on
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Now I'm a linux desktop guy for 25+ years now, Gentoo even, and I'm all for getting rid of the smell of piss in the subway.
That being said, the actual imaging part of the systems is not where the effort is. But gathering user requirements, testing out the hardware, fiddling with it to make work what does not want to work, and finding and funding replacements where needed... Then creating the imaging infrastructure and training the users... And most importantly, rolling all of that back once it turns out you
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Don't be a fool. Linux is NOT easy. There's no way a person who is computer illiterate manages to successfully replace Windows with Linux.
Plus, there is still very little native game support.
Re: Everyone start handing out DVDs and USBs of Li (Score:2)
"Plus, there is still very little native game support."
Do not want. Ironically, it's easier to run old Windows games on Linux than old Linux games.
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Who gives a shit what you want? If Linux was as much of a supported platform as Windows is, Linux's market share would be much closer in parity to Windows.
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If Linux was as much of a supported platform as Windows is, Linux's market share would be much closer in parity to Windows.
IME "support" is mostly notional anyway. In terms of what will run, it's true that a bunch of PvP games for Windows require Windows kernel DRM, and will not run on Linux. Or, you have a degraded experience where you cannot connect to most servers, and there may also be no anticheat functionality at all. So yes, if you want to play those games, you will still need Windows.
Otherwise, most games seem to work on Linux now, including a bunch of older games that don't work well on modern Windows. Market share is
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You do realize that the general public aren't gamers, right? The most they they do is a solitaire game, and such -- games that come with the system and wouldn't stress a 20 year old graphic card. Any other games are probably a game that runs in a browser. That's from talking to two sets of parents, multiple cousins, and various neighbors over time.
As to your first point, installing something like Kbuntu and giving it the entire hard drive is generally easier than installing Windows because you don't have to
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Plus, there is still very little native game support.
I doubt very many serious gamers are running rigs that can't upgrade to Windows 11. Yeah, I know it's a "no true Scotsman" fallacy, but game system requirements don't lie.
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That comment was referring to Linux.
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unchains people from Microsoft and Apple.
What makes you think people want to be unchained? There's this fantasy that exists in the minds of Slashdot that people only use Windows because they are forced to. Go ahead install Linux on random people's machine. We'll direct support calls to you when they ask why they can't install the Xbox store, or why their OneDrive sync no longer works.
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The problem isn't the initial installation any more. For Ubuntu and Linux Mint the install process is fairly smooth and the UI is nice during install, and as a daily driver. /boot not being large enough to hold kernel images, because after many of those automatic updates, it ran out of space in /boot.
The problem now is maintenance, and when things fail...
Yes, I know there's automatic updates, but I ran into an issue with
I'm not "technical" enough to know whether I can resize /boot, or if it is feasible - es
Microsoft could avoid a lot of this.... (Score:5, Insightful)
The machines that can run Windows 10 but not 11 really have no legitimate reasons they're incapable of using 11. It's generally artificial barriers put up by Microsoft because the chips lack a feature or two they're trying to make a new standard.
In a few cases, it's literally nothing more than an oversight! My co-worker was just telling me about a specific model of Xeon CPU he's got that has some long "sub-model" vs a simple model number like 5360 or 5500 or what-not. It has every single function in it that Microsoft says is needed by Win 11, yet you can't put 11 on it. Why? Only because Microsoft neglected to list its specific model/sub-model in its database it uses to determine the machines capable of installing 11 on them.
If they want all these people off Windows 10, they could design 11 so it runs more like 10, with a few of the features disabled that require the instructions the older CPUs lack, when it detects those processors.
Apple did this with iOS multiple times already. A new iOS version still runs on older phones but with a few features disabled if those specific features need the newer phone's CPU to work.
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The issue is TPM 2.0, a hardware device and a security issue.
There is the CPU, the Chipset, and the features the manufacturer builds into the computer - it isn't "just" the CPU, the chipset supporting the CPU needs to be capable of supporting TPM 2.0 AND the MFG needs to have implemented TPM 2.0 in the chipset.
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Yet apparently Windows 11 works fine without it.
I'm guessing it's just a way for Microsoft to create DRM that takes control of the PC from its owner?
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Define "works fine". From what I can see core features of Windows 11 fail without TPM, and bonus points your local system credentials are stored locally on your drive, on a drive that can't be encrypted.
It works fine as much as a car which doesn't have functioning locks on it "works fine". Slashdot used to criticise Microsoft for lax security, and now they are criticising them for mandating hardware security measures despite being the last popular OS to do so.
Pick a lane mate.
Re:Microsoft could avoid a lot of this.... (Score:4)
I have a desktop which has TPM 2.0 but the CPU is a 7th gen I5 so it refuses to run Windows 11. It's still a very capable desktop for basic needs...thankfully Rufus https://rufus.ie/en/ [rufus.ie] enabled it to run Windows 11.
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This isn't *really* a requirement. I've been able to upgrade all of my family's computers, and those of extended family, using an open source tool called Rufus. https://theideaplace.net/using... [theideaplace.net] It creates a Windows 11 installer from an official Microsoft Windows download, but tweaks a few registry entries to make it work, even on "unsupported" hardware. Once upgraded, I've never seen a compatibility issue, despite the purported requirements.
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Despite MS's installer claiming otherwise, only TPM 1.2 or newer is required by Windows 11. Also I'm running Windows 11 in a KVM virtual machine an older server that has zero support for TPM of any kind, using an emulated TPM. Seems to me to run on older hardware, MS could have provided a light-weight hyperV shim that could provide the TPMv2 to windows. Assuming that the implementation of the emulated TPM would be completely inaccessible to the VM itself, enough security remains against malware, etc.
Mean
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Yes, Big Brother wants to take full control, you can't be trusted to take responsibility for your own security. Of course, they can't be either - they're happy to turn your personal info into profit.
Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
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Big Brother wants to take full control
TPM is under control of the user. It's on your machine.
you can't be trusted to take responsibility for your own security.
Yes. That much is obvious.
Of course, they can't be either
Yeah MS is known for shady stuff like storing credentials for decrypting drives on an unencrypted partition. Oh wait, that's precisely what TPM is supposed to solve. Where were you when hardware security was implemented by OSX, Android, iPhone, and Linux (though the last one doesn't make it mandatory)? You spend so much time complaining about lack of trust in MS security, and now you're complaining about them implementing an in
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There are ways around the requirements for updating from Windows 10 to Windows 11.
You can change some registry settings, or use a utility to modify the ISO automatically [rufus.ie].
My laptop doesn't have a TPM, but otherwise met all of the requirements for upgrading to Windows 11...
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Or, if they want them off Windows 10, they could relax the compatibility requirements to upgrade. It's very possible. In fact, you can do this yourself using an open-source tool called Rufus to make a tweaked Windows 11 installer that bypasses the compatibility checks. https://theideaplace.net/using... [theideaplace.net] I've used this on a number of machines of varying ages, and have experience no issues.
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Proven by the fact that a few have hacked Windows 11 to run fine on machines that supposedly can't run it.
I wouldn't trust those hacks in production, but they prove the possibility. Of course, I don't trust ANY Windows in production.
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make a new standard.
The devices in question have been standard for about 8 years now. Microsoft didn't make this a standard, they stopped supporting systems which didn't offer modern standard hardware.
Why? Only because Microsoft neglected to list its specific model/sub-model in its database it uses to determine the machines capable of installing 11 on them.
Microsoft does not do a CPU model number check against a database. They do a check for specific hardware features and no CPU list is managed by the hardware compatibility tool. Your co-worker's CPU doesn't meet some requirement most probably because the CPU is either lacking a feature, or more likely it's disabled (some Windows r
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Youre way overstating things. Its not that much worse than Windows 11.
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Youre way overstating things. Its not that much worse than Windows 11.
[Bill Gates has entered the chat.]
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Youre way overstating things. Its not that much worse than Windows 11.
I'm assuming you meant 10.
I doubt many people share the AC's sentiment outside of /. The majority of the mainstream backlash seems to be people who want to keep their aging machines up-to-date and would install 11 if they could. Nothing new under the sun here. I remember in ye olde days upgrading to Windows 95 and then needing new hardware anyway because it ran like shit.
Good Luck (Score:1)
Most of them (Score:2)
are very well supported under Linux .. Just typing this for a friend .. ;)
For free? (Score:2)
Supporting Windows 10 costs MS money, and that money has to come from somewhere. And it's surely not going to come out of the CEO's salary!
Consumer Reports (Score:2)
I gave up on Consumer Reports. I briefly had an account but it was a real pain to close it. During closing my account, Consumer Reports offered me a lower price 3 separate times. If you can support my account at that final low low price then why didn't you the whole time? You thought you could get over on me and I wouldn't notice, well I noticed and Fuck You for that. Consumer Reports can keep their over-priced-and-impossible-to-turn-off service that is no better than consumer reviews anyway.
Get a better Windows 10 (Score:4)
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That's nice for Enterprise people. What about the average user? How does one get it? How much does it cost?...
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Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC is far superior to the consumer versions and has mainstream
Superior in what way? The problem with statements like yours is that you will help someone who doesn't understand computers install it, and then they end up with basic problems as a result such as, where is the Microsoft Store, or why is the Xbox game bar not working, this online guide said windows+G brings up an overlay!
far more programs that have compatibility issues with 11 than programs that work on 10 home/pro but not enterprise ltsc.
Citation required, given that Windows 11 is the same underlying system as Windows 10. If it runs on Windows 10 it runs on Windows 11. Heck even Windows 11's version number is 10.0.26100
You can install missing bloat like the MS Store if you really want to.
At t
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If it runs on Windows 10 it runs on Windows 11.
A doubtful premise given Microsoft history, as I've experienced all kinds of minor upgrades/updates breaking software on various forms of Windows over the decades. But even given that, it won't all run it equally well, and Windows 11 is festooned with more crap which has to be dodged. They've also dicked up the interface regarding snap and multiple monitors in a way that causes my mouse pointer to warp incredibly unpleasantly, but I don't try to do multimonitor on a system I also play games on any more so I
Consumer Reports strikes again (Score:2)
CR is as famous for suggesting good things for bad reasons, as for their ludicrously clueless "reviews".
I am certainly not agreeing with MS, but asking them to "continue providing support for Windows 10 computers for free until more people have upgraded to Windows 11" is just delusional.
Missing hardware requirements? (Score:2)
Or simply disabled? In the past 3 months I've helped about 5 people upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11. It was usually some combination of not knowing how to turn SecureBoot on to enable the upgrade (simple) or having to convert MBR to GPT partitions and switch the BIOS from Legacy to UEFI.
In all cases their machine said their hardware was not capable of running Windows 11. I wonder how many PC actually can't, and I wonder how many of them are in 3rd world countries after they were dumped by the westerne
STOP KILLING OPERATING SYSTEMS (Score:1)
Time for a new movement? If we should stop killing video games, should we not also preserve the operating systems they run on?
Should governments allow companies to put the country at risk through difital sexurity negligence on a mass scale?
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Win10 is a solid 10 years old.
Same as an Ubuntu LTS with a support subscription.
Honestly this is fair.
Operating system preservation is a dead argument. They aren't coming to your house and disabling it. It just probably shouldn't touch the internet anymore. You can still run it forever, you just can't on infinity manufacturer warranty support.
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I stopped dual booting for games 10 years ago...same time 10 came out.
Steam/Wine is mostly fine.
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Who is "we"?
Why "should" a video game not be "killed"? Why "should" a company have to keep a game going into perpetuity? Ditto operating systems.