Porsche Can't Add Wireless Charging To Macan, Taycan EV Because the Inductive Plate Doesn't Fit (thedrive.com) 64
Porsche's wireless charging system will not be available on the Macan Electric and Taycan because the inductive charging plate cannot physically fit between the front suspension on those models. Dr. Maximilian Muller, Porsche's high voltage engineering lead, told The Drive during a visit to the company's Leipzig facility that the Cayenne Electric's larger dimensions create the necessary space for the charging hardware beneath the front motor. The Cayenne Electric is wider than both the Taycan and Macan Electric. The larger vehicle forced Porsche to design different suspension geometry even though it shares the PPE platform with the Macan Electric. The changes create additional packaging constraints that prevent retrofitting the wireless charging system into existing electric models.
Luckily there is an intertwined multi conductor. (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Luckily there is an intertwined multi conductor (Score:4, Insightful)
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There is galvanic isolation with AC charging, so there are always magnets. Wireless charging uses the inductive power transfer for galvanic isolation. AC charging also needs PFC and the inverter driving the coil for wireless power transfer also does PFC during it's normal function without any extra switches.
So it's not as bad as you might expect.
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I agree with that too. I could go with small, amusement ride types of rail just running up and down the street that just has seats, and shade. My commute may be walking some, hopping a ride on a 15mph mini-train, more walking, hop a train. I think that would be fun and stress free.
When I see these sort of posts, I always think the poster has an urban only outlook. What is your solution for the rest of the country?
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benefit from the relevant numbers today and let the rounding errors keep theirs till tomorrow, solve the outliers later if ever
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benefit from the relevant numbers today and let the rounding errors keep theirs till tomorrow, solve the outliers later if ever
You perfectly illustrate the urban uber alles outlook.
The small world where someone lives in a cramped apartment in the depths of the city, takes the bus or subway everywhere in their tiny world, who believes that is the only proper existence is. what they are doing, and anyone outside of their tiny world is barely human, while enduring fear if ever outside their bubble.
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Bring a hat and water.
Seriously, though, if you do focus on the cities first, that's 90% of the solution anyway, You have to start somewhere and you may as well start with where the most number of people are benefited.
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Bring a hat and water.
Seriously, though, if you do focus on the cities first, that's 90% of the solution anyway, You have to start somewhere and you may as well start with where the most number of people are benefited.
Keeping with the conversation flow, we were talking about highway charging vs parking lot charging in the mix.
At least here in Pennsylvania where I live, there is no issue with electric chargers in parking lots. We have them in parking lots, convenience stores, and even in some fairly remote areas, like some state parks. In an ironic twist, sometimes many miles before an ICE driver can fill up. The IC driver might run out of gas while the EV driver pulls out with a full charge.
So the parking lot parad
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The right solution is vehicles on rails, which solve the steering, tire dust, and tire inefficiency problems. All of the attempts to make cars make sense in this age are wasted effort. Cars make sense for some situations, but not the one we're in now where we have way too many of them for our own good.
Do you have calculations to make every road in the US function this way, or do we all have to move to cities and embrace the urban gestalt?
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Do you have calculations to make every road in the US function this way,
No, I've been a bit lazy about that, if I'm honest. And I usually am. But you'd start from city centers and push out to where you can put cheap parking, which you'd combine with solar farms of course. I don't envision eliminating cars from everywhere ever and I also don't expect it would make sense to do all at once. I guess I'll have to go looking for papers on this soon. It's so tedious when you don't have institutional access...
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But you'd start from city centers and push out to where you can put cheap parking
That's what various larger cities have been doing here in NL: building Park&Ride hubs on the periphery. People drive to the city and transfer to public transport there. Judging from how full those parking lots are, it's a popular option.
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But you'd start from city centers and push out to where you can put cheap parking
That's what various larger cities have been doing here in NL: building Park&Ride hubs on the periphery. People drive to the city and transfer to public transport there. Judging from how full those parking lots are, it's a popular option.
Oh yeah. We have a terminal right outside New York City that is the same thing. Likewise the lot is quite full. Trains between NYC and Philly running all the time, packed with people. Add in Boston, and it's people, people, people.
In such concentrations of humanity, you simply have to have some manner of public transportation. No choice. It's all about how much space has to be provided for private autos.
But give it a thought. We do our level best to keep personal autos out of the very place some think w
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I agree with you. The only place roadway charging maybe makes sense is on interstates, but you have to build an awful lot of it to make it worthwhile. I also agree that it by far makes the most sense to put charging on parking lots, and I've been preaching that here for a lot of years. They are obvious places to put solar farms, and we should focus on parking lots until all the convenient ones are covered.
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if I'm developing a place for people to charge their cars, I'd look at this parking lots and think - "There's a place for charging."
Absolutely. P&R lots as well as parking near offices are great places to charge, during to day so you can take advantage of cheap excess solar power. It's also a great way to make EVs viable for those who do not have the opportunity to charge at home. But here in NL that has been slow in coming as well. Many offices installed a mere handful of chargers that are invariably all occupied. That is where we need to scale up... as well as bring down the price of public chargers. Here it usually is 50-10
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That's what various larger cities have been doing here in NL: building Park&Ride hubs on the periphery.
We have them here in the USA too, especially in California. We use them both for rail and express buses. We need more rail, and more park & rides.
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Do you have calculations to make every road in the US function this way,
No, I've been a bit lazy about that, if I'm honest. And I usually am. But you'd start from city centers and push out to where you can put cheap parking, which you'd combine with solar farms of course. I don't envision eliminating cars from everywhere ever and I also don't expect it would make sense to do all at once. I guess I'll have to go looking for papers on this soon. It's so tedious when you don't have institutional access...
I sense a zinger there, Drinkypoo! 8^)
You note a parking area - Yup, something similar to the Terminal area in NYC. People coming into the city in private autos park thier cars in the big terminal parking lot, get onto public transport, and it keeps a lot of cars out of the city. A pretty good solution. To my mind, there is where charging stations should be. Park your car there in the morning, go to work, and come back to a charged vehicle.
That is certainly a lot less expense and infrastructure buildo
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There is a wonderful invention called a "parking lot" which removes the needs to build rails to your door. You might want to check into it. Europeans seem to have figured them out.
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There is a wonderful invention called a "parking lot" which removes the needs to build rails to your door. You might want to check into it. Europeans seem to have figured them out.
We already have them my insecure European friend.
Seriously, the idea that Europe in its incredible superiority, has parking lots with chargers, while we subhuman's in the hinterlands don't would be funny if it wasn't top level copium.
And while you search for any reason to sling some shit on us, if you had actually paid attention to the conversation, we were talking about electrification of roads in the mix. Of course electrification of parking lots is the best move, and that is why we have them. We even
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The GGP is clearly talking about trains, not electrified roads, and next one was trying to snarkily ask if we need to build a train to every door in an attempt to claim they don't work. I (who is not European btw) tried to point out how stupid this was because you can use another form of transportation to reach the rail head, without the strange idea that you must use that form of transportation for the entire trip. I suppose I should have mentioned airports to try to get the idea through your thick skulls.
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The GGP is clearly talking about trains, not electrified roads, and next one was trying to snarkily ask if we need to build a train to every door in an attempt to claim they don't work. I (who is not European btw) tried to point out how stupid this was because you can use another form of transportation to reach the rail head, without the strange idea that you must use that form of transportation for the entire trip. I suppose I should have mentioned airports to try to get the idea through your thick skulls.
Though electrified roads using induction recharging are obviously stupid, even they would not need to be built all the way to everybody's door. The car is capable of travelling some distance off of them, so just like train stations and airports the grid can be way smaller than everybody's house.
OP Flyswatter wrote: "That comes in the form of a cord and is more efficient." referring to losses of power between direct and inductive charging.
NP Valgrus Thunderaxe replied:"I think the idea is ultimately to put the charging into roads." self evident meaning.
NP Saloomy replied: "Also a stupid idea. It's inefficient no matter what. The right solution is a conductor that pops out (or up) automatically from the ground or from the parking spot. I have felt that a robust connector should either shoot up fr
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Rails are pretty much a requirement for recharging while moving. But it does seem like a mechanical device that is below a parked car would work well for recharging stationary cars.
I am wondering if "hybrid" trains would be a good idea though. They would have sufficient batteries to travel a few miles, and be recharged when there is an overhead wire. This could reduce the cost and aestetics problems of overhead wires quite a lot, I think. It would be much closer to the "recharge while moving" idea as well.
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I am wondering if "hybrid" trains would be a good idea though. They would have sufficient batteries to travel a few miles, and be recharged when there is an overhead wire.
These are in fact already a thing, and as you surmise, a good one. It lets you only run catenary wires where they are convenient.
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I recently evaluated a 200W wireless charging system. I thought it would be like 50% efficient, but, it was 90%. I was very impressed! It totally changed my mind as to if this was a "good direction" for charging.
Even if it is 90%, that's still an 11% increase in power consumption. Now consider a car. If you are driving two or three hundred miles per week, that might be 50 to 100 kWh per week. At California prices, that could mean an extra $2.50 to $5 per week, or $130 to $260 per year.
This is not a small amount of power loss we're talking about anymore.
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That's why both vehicles and chargers are typically designed to let you quickly change out the charge connector. At least on Teslas, it's something like a half-hour job to swap out the charge port, and Tesla Mobile Service can do it without you even bringing in the car. And commercial-grade EV chargers typically have cords that are field-swappable. (Whether cheap consumer-grade chargers do or not, I couldn't say.)
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On another point, there needs to be galvanic isolation, that costs about the same as wireless, and does the same thing.
Yes and no. A transformer does have a gap, but it is a really small gap. Unless you have some robot arm that moves up and touches the underside of the car while it is parked, which, being a moving part, would be a frequent point of failure, possibly even making it very difficult to move the car without causing damage, you're going to have a very *large* gap, measured in inches.
The difference in minimum ground clearance between a Model S and a Cybertruck is 3.9 inches. That's a LOT of difference. To make
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To be fair, I mostly am as well, just with my cynic hat firmly in place. :-D
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Wireless EV charging has been in use for years in Europe. Taxis use it so they can charge while waiting for passengers. Apparently efficiency is over 90%.
It's mostly redundant now though because even cheap EVs have enough range that they don't need to charge during a shift.
Re:Luckily there is an intertwined multi conductor (Score:4, Informative)
That is incredibly dumb. While a fixed wireless charger (i.e in a parking spot) can achieve close to 90% efficiency vs a plugged in charger, charging in roads while moving is insanely inefficient.
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There are some test areas in Germany where they have a pantograph for trucks. It seemed like a decent idea at the time, but batteries got so big and so cheap so quickly that it's basically redundant now. The batteries go longer than humans are allowed to - in the EU there are limits on how long commercial drivers can go without a break.
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Pantograph is a completely different thing. They are quite efficient.
That said, honestly though you are on point. Every idiot on the road who thinks they should be doing a canon-ball run needs to be forced to drive a car that forces them to pull over for 10min every 2 hours. We have enough evidence that driving for longer than 2 hours puts performance equivalent to that of a drunk driver, and we have enough evidence that 90% of people think this basic rule doesn't apply to them and overestimate their abilit
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I think the idea is ultimately to put the charging into roads.
Parking spots would make a hell of a lot more sense. As in all of them.
We can’t even keep the asphalt intact. The fuck are we thinking putting a high voltage rail underneath every pothole? Enough of that taxpayer sucking drivel. That’s how you end up with $100 billon dollar California high-speed roads to nowhere.
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TL;DR (Score:1)
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Or, much more likely, they decided to not compromise handling for a convenience feature on two of their models.
Isn't it horribly inefficient? (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't you lose a lot of electricity and generate a lot of heat in the transfer, leading to people paying almost double the electricity for charging the vehicle?
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Ask ShanghaiBill how much he cares about his wife's $150K Cayenne EV using more electricity while charging.
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Inductive charging on an EV only has a loss of ~10% through the process.
That loss number gets pretty damn big when adoption count is measured in first-world countries.
Meh (Score:2)
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must be nice.
nothing against the post. in fact I learnt something new.
It is horribly inefficient, lets greenwash it! (Score:5, Insightful)
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It's not that much in the grand scheme of things. It's about 87-93% efficient in comparison to plugged in charging so the differences aren't that significant.
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People who buy a Porsche SUV don't give a shit about efficiency. For them it is conspicuous consumption - showing off.
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doh! (Score:2)
Cue Scotty (Score:2)
I canna change the laws o' physics, Cap'n!!!
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MAGNETS, BITCH! (Score:2)
Just use a set of electromagnets that will align properly when something pulls over them, and once the charge is complete they discharge the magnets and the cord drops. Seems a lot simpler.
2013 Boxster (Score:2, Informative)
I enjoy my 2013 Boxster, take the roof down, release clutch, engage the first, switch gears, enjoy the ride. I respect that Porsche found a way to stay in business selling SUVs that I will never buy because it 8s a travesty, but this goes too far. I don't want even to think about an EV Porsche, never mind drive one or charge one... this entire story is one f up after another, all piled up on top of each other....
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Imagine seesawing back and forth (Score:3)
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