Race for All-Solid-State EV Batteries Heats Up with New Samsung SDI/BMW/Solid Power Partnership

All-solid-state batteries (ASSBs) "are widely viewed as the 'holy grail' of EV battery tech," writes Electrek, "promising to double driving range, halve charging times, and reduce costs." Toyota hopes to launch its first production EV powered by the batteries in 2027 or 2028, and Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen are also testing the technology.

But now Samsung SDI is teaming up with BMW and US-based battery company Solid Power for their own effort at commercializing all-solid-state EV batteries "in what's expected to be a trilateral powerhouse." BMW and Solid Power have been working together to develop the next-gen battery tech since 2022... Under the new agreement signed this week, Samsung will supply all-solid-state battery cells. Samsung will use Solid Power's Sulfide-Based Solid Electrolyte solution, while BMW will develop the battery pack and modules.

The strategic alliance aims to take the lead in commercializing all-solid-state batteries (ASSBs). Together, they've created a real-world system for producing ASSB cells, pooling their expertise in batteries, automaking, and materials to bring it closer to mass production. Solid Power's electrolyte solution is designed for stability and maximum conductivity. By teaming up with BMW and Samsung SDI, the company said it aims to bring all-solid-state batteries closer to widespread adoption.
"By pooling resources, BMW, Samsung SDI, and Solid Power have a real shot..." argues Electrek.

I am optimistic about this battery tech

[ndsurvivor]

I have read for a couple of years now supply chains are being built, and about testing in the real world. I know bs stories have been flying around for many years about battery tech, but I think this one is real. This one may not be 10 years from now every year forever, I think it will materialize.

Re:I am optimistic about this battery tech

[PsychoSlashDot]

I have read for a couple of years now supply chains are being built, and about testing in the real world. I know bs stories have been flying around for many years about battery tech, but I think this one is real. This one may not be 10 years from now every year forever, I think it will materialize.

Odds are good. There's already been phenomenal progress in the last ten years. It's amazing what companies come up with when they're encouraged to not just keep burning dead dinosaurs.

Re:

[ndsurvivor]

My gut tells me that the people making money off of dead dinosaurs for the last 100 years have been dominant in world politics, in law making, and in spreading propaganda in order to keep themselves Rich. Good riddance to them.

Re:

[XXongo]

You keep posting this, it's still wrong.

Re: But I have said it and while right wing

[Barsteward]

Effing bollox. Stay ignorant for the rest of your life

Re: But I have said it and while right wing

[mattyVN]

Youâ(TM)re wrong again and again -Matthew who is not a troll - just a dude more clued on than you

Re:

[ukoda]

Smog from tires is bullshit. Also batteries are getting lighter because of improvements in their energy density and the up tick in people who want cheaper BEVs and realise that don't need to pay for a huge battery to meet their needs. From this you can expect commuter class BEVs with similar, or lighter, curb weights to ICEVs. When that happens are you still going to make these bullshit claims about tires being the main cause of pollution?

Then how did Los Angeles smog get so much better?

[Tschaine]

Los Angeles had a serious smog problem back in the day. I'm just old enough to remember flying in and seeing the "cloud" over the city being downright apocalyptic.

They still have a ways to go, but it's vastly better now than it was in the 70s/early 80s.

And yet, there are far more miles being driven in LA today than back then.

Re:

[tragedy]

Because electric cars don't eliminate or even reduce smog. Most of that smog you see is tire particulate. We've been running zero emissions cars from most vehicles for a while now. We do have a problem with idling semi trucks but they mostly do that outside city limits. Most of the smog you're seeing is coming from little bits of tire.

All that you're actually saying here is that, once you remove all of the other air pollution a car can produce, the particulate pollution from the tires and brake dust remains (although EV's also significantly reduce brake dust because of regenerative braking). Your claim that EV's won't even reduce smog is wrong on its face, and it also ignores that smog is not the only emissions concern with cars.

As for the actual issue of emissions from tire wear, that can be addressed through two methods, possibly in co

Re: I am optimistic about this battery tech

[Fortnite_Beast]

Oil isn't dead dinosaurs. It's dead algae and plankton. Which is why we never ran out, in spite of the predictions scientists made in the 1970s. https://www.sciencefocus.com/p... [sciencefocus.com]

Re:

[PsychoSlashDot]

Oil isn't dead dinosaurs. It's dead algae and plankton. Which is why we never ran out, in spite of the predictions scientists made in the 1970s. https://www.sciencefocus.com/p... [sciencefocus.com]

While that may be true - and I do thank you for it - there's zero chance I'll remember in the future because a} "dead dinosaurs" has a certain ring to it, b} I'm old and unlearning things is harder than learning them especially when c} it changes the nature of the discussion in no appreciable way.

No snark intended. It's just sort of like when some people are having a discussion about vegetables and someone lists what they like in a salad and it includes tomatoes and someone pipes up that those are fruits

Re:

[ukoda]

When I saw the name Toyota I though it was going to be another future bullshit prediction but when I saw name Samsung the report had far more credibility. Will be interesting to see what this partnership produces and how long it will take.

2030

[Gravis Zero]

Keiji Kaita, president of Toyota’s Carbon Neutral Advanced Engineering Development Center, confirmed this week at the Tokyo Motor Show that the company aims to introduce its first solid-state battery-powered EV by 2028.

"introduce". This means that actual use is going to they are aiming to work out production snags in 2028 before scaling up in 2029. 2030 is when you should expect these to be generally available.

Engineering battery tech is like microfabrication: it takes time because mistakes can be expensive. They will only rush the process if they fear someone will beat them to the market.

Re:2030

[Cyberax]

"introduce". This means that actual use is going to they are aiming to work out production snags in 2028 before scaling up in 2029. 2030 is when you should expect these to be generally available.

Duh. BMW and Toyota. They have squandered years of development time. BYD is producing solid-state batteries in small batches for engineering tests, and they're scaling up the production now. They are expecting production rollout around 2027, with gradual scaling over the next several years.

At the same time, CATL is already producing LFPs with 200Wh/kg system density, enough for a 400-mile range on a typical EV ( https://www.catl.com/en/news/6... [catl.com] ). And the sodium-ion cells are at around 140Wh/kg, comparable to Li-Ion batteries in Teslas just 10 years ago with 200Wh/kg cells announced this year!

We might end up not even _needing_ solid-state batteries for most needs. I actually expect them to be used only for devices that need high energy density, like wearables and phones.

Re:2030

[SoftwareArtist]

We might end up not even _needing_ solid-state batteries for most needs. I actually expect them to be used only for devices that need high energy density, like wearables and phones.

Another important use is airplanes. For cars, current batteries are "good enough", though higher density would still be good. For airplanes, current batteries are just barely usable for very short flights. Doubling the density would be a big deal.

Re: 2030

[fluffernutter]

If an EV could drive for 8 hours straight without filling then it would alleviate the necessity for governments to put chargers in remote areas where they may not be profitable. It would make for a huge savings in tax dollars since they won't become mainstream untill there isn't a place left where you may be left stranded.

Re:

[cusco]

That's of no interest to me, I have no intention of driving 8 hours non-stop and neither do most normal people.

Re:

[fluffernutter]

Well I probably won't drive 8 hours non-stop, but when I stop I don't want to have to spend it charging. And maybe a lot of people don't go for long drives in your country but it is a way of life in mine.

Re:

[tragedy]

I used to do 20 hour+ trips when I was younger. There were stops, of course, but basically just to gas up and quickly use the bathroom. That was only a couple of times a year at most though. In the worst case scenario back then if I had an EV that would have needed lots of charging on the trip, I would have just rented something (actually, some of those times, I rented something anyway to have more space). The extra range is nice to have though, and it will encourage a lot of people who are still not willin

Re:

[fluffernutter]

Rental agencies around where I am don't keep stock like that. You need to book at least a month in advance if you want something. And then you are adding at least $100 per day for the trip. That takes the enjoyment away for me.

Re:

[tragedy]

I mean, compared to the overall cost for those trips, the rental car cost was generally an afterthought. They were also planned trips, so booking in advance was not a problem.

Re:

[fluffernutter]

I'm taking about trips where you go somewhere on a long weekend, stay for a day and come back. The airbnb will cost you around 240 but the rental costs you 300. So now my weekend trip has gone from 240 to 540.

Re:

[tragedy]

My logic on such trips is that vehicle range is not a huge obstacle for trips I would take for a long weekend. I generally avoid vacation trips where the travel time is too high a percentage of the actual vacation time. So, for a long weekend trip, I would not need a vehicle with either extended range or extra space (not to mention that one of my current vehicles is an ICE with extra space, although that just reminded me that the battery in it is dead and I need to charge the battery and take it for a drive

Re:

[fluffernutter]

Well I live 5 hours away from PEI. My wife only gets two weeks of vacation which is used up for a longer trip in the summer to see family. So unless we do the trip on the weekend we are never going to see PEI despite living so close. For the summer trip we have to fly because of time constraints. We have to see family in 2 cities that are 8 hours apart. Two summers ago there were SUVs for $50 a day and I considered that reasonable so we flew into one city and rented and drove to the other city and left

Re:

[tragedy]

I don't recall having to pay that much for rentals, but like I said, these trips were when I was younger. They were also when I would splurge after saving up. In any case, it's not like I always did rentals, just when it made sense.

Re:

[fluffernutter]

COVID changed the way rental agencies do business. It's not the same as it used to be.

Re:

[Cyberax]

I used to run analysis using the US road network and the list of charging stations. A year ago, the longest stretch of roads without high-speed chargers was Montana to North Dakota, with 220 miles. The next one was in Oregon, something around 180 miles. More than 99% of the named locations reachable by numbered US highways and freeways were within 100 miles of a fast charger.

So technically, if you did even a bit of planning, you could reach ANY point on the public US roads and still have energy to drive to

Re:

[fluffernutter]

But that's the thing. I don't want to have to plan all that. I just want to drive where I want to and have charging there without it eating into what I want to do.

Re:

[cusco]

BYD is producing solid-state batteries in small batches for engineering tests, and they're scaling up the production now.

That was my first thought when I RTFS, "Wonder how far behind China they are?"

Re:

[sonicmerlin]

The Chinese are insanely fast at prototyping and commercialization. If Western companies slow roll things out they’ll be passed by quickly.

ASS-Batteries

[Anonymous Coward]

You might want to talk to marketing about that name.

Re:

[Mr. Barky]

What, are you constipated or something?

Wrong race

[backslashdot]

The two races should be reducing cost and making full self-driving work

Re:

[ndsurvivor]

Chinese have reduced costs, and as for self driving cars, I think attitudes need to change such that the standard is not perfection, but better than most people. The attitude now is that if a death occurs with a self driving car, then everybody gets a hair up their but, however, if a drunk kills someone, eh, shit happens.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[ndsurvivor]

Perhaps you are correct. My personal belief is that if Corporations consider themselves as "People", with rights and all of that, then if a Corporation willfully kills someone, then their CEO should stand trial for murder. As for "drunk on profit", I have yet to see a self-driving venture make a profit. They just get gobs of money dropped on them from Monopolists and Oligarchs in the hope... of someday.. it works.

Re:

[Insanity Defense]

As for "drunk on profit", I have yet to see a self-driving venture make a profit.

The executives take "profits" in the form of high bonuses they vote themselves no matter how badly things go. A failure they walk into another high paying job with bags of cash. A success and they vote themselves lots of share which increase rapidly and again they get bags of cash.

Re:

[ndsurvivor]

I sense a fellow soul who is tired of Oligarchy. Did you know that poor people are not getting food assistance tonight? Trump is questioning if it is legal for him to use emergency money already set aside to pay for it?

Essential Services

[Anonymous Coward]

You might wonder why feeding poor hungry children isn't an essential service, but allowing people to continue to fly around, including in private jets, is.

Re:

[cusco]

Did you see the video? The woman who walked in front of the Uber was terminally stupid and deserves the blame. I've been driving for 48 years and there's no way in hell I could have missed her. A coworker who used to drive that road to work said that he couldn't imagine how she could have passed that stretch of highway successfully in the middle of the day, much less at night.

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

China is already there

[InterGuru]

Chinese Solid-State Battery Breakthrough Powers 800-Mile Range Chinese automakers have introduced a new solid-state battery technology that offers double the energy density of current market models, potentially powering electric vehicles for 800 miles on a single charge. Solid-state batteries are safer and more stable than traditional lithium-ion batteries due to their solid electrolyte, enabling faster charging and eliminating fire hazards. https://oilprice.com/Energy/En... [oilprice.com]

Re:

[ndsurvivor]

As an American, I think we have "protected" the domestic electric car companies enough. The Chinese made a product that is twice as good and half the cost while Musk is taking drugs and destroying our democracy. I think, Drop the Tariffs on the Chinese cars, let us have decent products and stop subsidizing assholes.

Re:

[phantomfive]

The Chinese made a product that is twice as good and half the cost

There's a really big [citation needed] on that. They've definitely taken shortcuts: https://www.youtube.com/shorts... [youtube.com]

Re:

[ndsurvivor]

I would look at your youtube video, or your truth social post, but I am afraid my brain would rot as I see yours has.

Re:

[phantomfive]

That makes sense. You imagine things rather than researching them.

Re:

[ndsurvivor]

I don't do research for things on Youtube. If you had a point, I assume that you would put them in words.

Re:

[phantomfive]

You don't do research. You also don't read, because I did put things into words. https://slashdot.org/comments.... [slashdot.org]

Re:

[ndsurvivor]

OK, tell me the big idea that you had watching a youtube video. Now I am interested. and.... I do research, i just try not to let crap enter my brain.

Re:

[Luckyo]

You can take a horse to water. You cannot make it drink.

Re:

[phantomfive]

You said cars in current production are twice as good and half the cost. You lied.

Re:

[Whibla]

The Chinese made a product that is twice as good and half the cost

There's a really big [citation needed] on that. They've definitely taken shortcuts:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts... [youtube.com]

How is that short relevant to a discussion about electric cars?

Ah, wait, don't tell us you fell for the propaganda in the title and actually thought that showed an electric vehicle blowing up? rofl!

As for a citation [sodiumbatteryhub.com] demonstrating "twice as good at half the cost" I'd suggest that this comes close. Tbh, given that there are plenty of others out there, it's a little strange you're unaware of what's going on in the field...

Re:

[phantomfive]

As for a citation [sodiumbatteryhub.com] demonstrating "twice as good at half the cost" I'd suggest that this comes close.

Fail. A battery that is not yet in production does nothing to prove the quality of cars currently in production.

I don't know what is wrong with you that you don't realize that, but something is wrong with you.

Re:

[Whibla]

As for a citation [sodiumbatteryhub.com] demonstrating "twice as good at half the cost" I'd suggest that this comes close.

Fail. A battery that is not yet in production does nothing to prove the quality of cars currently in production.

I don't know what is wrong with you that you don't realize that, but something is wrong with you.

There's nothing wrong with me. Not sure about you though...

From CATL's website [catl.com]: "CATL's Naxtra Battery breaks through the performance boundaries of the material itself, achieving the mass production of sodium-ion batteries for the first time."

This was in April...

Re:

[tragedy]

I have to agree that simply linking a youtube video is not really sufficiently rigorous. It's a bit like posting a link to watch a movie on youtube because you want to quote a single funny quote from one of the characters. This is not to say that citing where you got information is not good, but the proper way to do it is to actually put the information you want to convey, or at least a summary of it, into the post, then provide the citation for where you got it. We don't have to provide APA references at t

Re:

[phantomfive]

Oh spare your bullshit. You were happy to let the claim "Chinese make a product that is twice as good and half the cost" pass without complaining about APA references.

If you believe the cars are twice as good, then show your work, because it is not at all obvious. That is my claim.

Re:

[tragedy]

I wasn't even really commenting on your actual argument. I'm not the poster you were discussing that with. I was actually just commenting on simply linking to youtube videos to support an argument without actually making the argument.

Re:

[shilly]

Twice as good is an unprovable claim, though, isn’t it? You’ll always be able to dismiss anything anyone shows you as not being twice as good in your opinion.

What *is* possible to claim, though, is that there is not a sports car on the planet available for the same sticker price or lower than the Xiaomi SU7 Ultra with anything close to the same performance. Feel free to prove me wrong with a specific make and model

https://youtu.be/IJA8UiZW7lk?s... [youtu.be]

Re:

[DrMrLordX]

Protecting? From whom? He was getting subsidies before the Chinese electric auto industry even existed.

Re:

[ndsurvivor]

Musk seemed to have sucked up all of every Americans personal information to keep in his personal database. I think his time is done, America should be a Democracy, and not an Oligarchy, or what ever Musk is with him having a compound with many wives and spawning kids like they are fish.

Re: China is already there

[flyingfsck]

There are so many serious cases of MDS on Sloshdat - a real epidemic worse than Covid19.

Re:

[tragedy]

MDS? Myelodysplastic Syndrome? As far as is known, it's not caused by a communicable disease, so I don't think it can really be an epidemic.

Re:

[Luckyo]

There's just one problem with last fifty thousand or so of these announcements about "solid state lithium ion batteries".

When they get to production, and people not doing the marketing actually gets their hands on them and open them up, electrolyte leaks out. Because it's not in fact solid.

Solid electrolyte, but not metal anode ...

[Pinky's Brain]

Silicon anode solid electrolyte batteries are not the holy grail.

Metal anode, Sulfur Cathode is the holy grail. Metal anode, metal air rechargeable batteries are the holier grail.

Re:

[thesjaakspoiler]

Nope, Nickel Iron batteries are the holy grail for home energy storage.
They outlived Edison by a magnitude but they are not sexy so completely ignored by everyone.
The whole idea behind Nickel Iron battery is that they don't degrade like most other batteries do.

Re:

[Pinky's Brain]

Nickel iron or more likely iron air batteries have poor energy density, they might compete for stationary storage but not EVs.

Re:

[michael_cain]

Current iron-air batteries have efficiencies around 50%. That is, put 2 kWh in, get 1 kWh back out. That ruins the economics of a lot of potential applications.

Re:

[tragedy]

For the economics of it, that may depend on what the savings are vs the cost of producing the extra power vs the cost of more expensive batteries with better round trip efficiency. For example, if you can afford a massive battery bank that will help see you through the winter when your solar panels are less productive, maybe it is worth it for someone who would otherwise be bleeding excess power in summer (if off-grid, or in a place where feeding power back to the grid is not worth it), it may make absolute

Re:

[bill_mcgonigle]

I thought that until I learned that they need weekly maintenance tending.

Somebody would need to build an automated battery watering system for homeowners who go away for a long vacation and forget to water their houseplants.

At some point it's too Rube Goldberg to be usable. Now, a few square miles of grid-scale ... somebody could make a business case where land is cheap and sun and water are plentiful.

Re:

[Luckyo]

We have no idea what will work in the end. If anything will work at all.

All we know is nothing we tried so far works for solid state electrolyte, and we have a good understanding that if we can manage to get it to work, it should be significantly better than what we have with liquid electrolyte.

This is the materials science where you just have to keep trying different compounds for different elements and see if anything sticks. I.e. see how blue LED was developed. Problem here though is that there are way,

Great combination with thin film solar cells!

[thesjaakspoiler]

1990 called and asked if thin film solar cells have already been in mass production as predicted back then.

Re:

[tragedy]

Well, you can tell 1990 that they actually are in mass production. I mean, overall they are only a small fraction of the market, but the market itself has grown a great deal. For the most part the market has gone for higher efficiency and durability. The idea is long-term installations that will squeeze the maximum out of the available area. That makes sense in many ways because of the high portion of the overall cost that is taken up by installation. That leaves thin film being more of a niche market despi