Are Hybrid Cars Helping America Transition to Electric Vehicles? (msn.com) 150
America's electric car subsidies expired at the end of September, notes Bloomberg. Yet in those last three months, "while fully electric cars and trucks made up 10% of all auto sales in the US... another 15% of transactions were for hybrid vehicles."
The EV market is slowing in the U.S., but analysts expect hybrid sales to continue accelerating. CarGurus Inc., a digital listings platform that covers most of the US auto market, predicts nearly one in six new cars next year will be a hybrid, as automakers green-light more and better machines with the technology. And though these cars and trucks will still burn gas, they will quietly move the needle on both transportation emissions and the transition to fully electric cars and trucks... CarGurus calls hybrids the success story of 2025. Indeed, the fastest-selling car in the country this year has been the Hyundai Palisade Hybrid; it sat on lots for fewer than 14 days on average...
While carmakers have struggled to turn a profit on fully electric vehicles, analysts say their investments in batteries and electric motors are helping them sell more and better hybrid machines. It's also increasingly difficult to discern a hybrid from a solely gas-powered model, said Scott Hardman, assistant director of the Electric Vehicle Research Center at the University of California at Davis. Carmakers today often don't even label a hybrid as such. Consider Toyota's RAV4, one of the best-selling vehicles in America. The 2026 version of the SUV comes in six different variants, all of which include an electric motor and a gas tank. "A hybrid is just a regular car now," Hardman said. "You can buy one by accident...."
While not as clean as an electric vehicle, hybrids offer sneaky carbon cuts as well. Americans, on average, drive about 38 miles a day, which requires about one gallon of gas in most basic hybrids. Contemporary plug-in hybrids, which can run on all-battery power, can cover almost that entire range without the gas engine kicking in. And a small crowd of cars will do even better, stretching their batteries well over 40 miles per charge. All told, hybridization can reduce the carbon dioxide emissions of a vehicle by roughly 20% to 30%, according to the International Council on Clean Transportation.
Some interesting statistics from the article:
While carmakers have struggled to turn a profit on fully electric vehicles, analysts say their investments in batteries and electric motors are helping them sell more and better hybrid machines. It's also increasingly difficult to discern a hybrid from a solely gas-powered model, said Scott Hardman, assistant director of the Electric Vehicle Research Center at the University of California at Davis. Carmakers today often don't even label a hybrid as such. Consider Toyota's RAV4, one of the best-selling vehicles in America. The 2026 version of the SUV comes in six different variants, all of which include an electric motor and a gas tank. "A hybrid is just a regular car now," Hardman said. "You can buy one by accident...."
While not as clean as an electric vehicle, hybrids offer sneaky carbon cuts as well. Americans, on average, drive about 38 miles a day, which requires about one gallon of gas in most basic hybrids. Contemporary plug-in hybrids, which can run on all-battery power, can cover almost that entire range without the gas engine kicking in. And a small crowd of cars will do even better, stretching their batteries well over 40 miles per charge. All told, hybridization can reduce the carbon dioxide emissions of a vehicle by roughly 20% to 30%, according to the International Council on Clean Transportation.
Some interesting statistics from the article:
- By 2030 Ford expects fully or partially electrified vehicles will represent half its global sales. Toyota has already reached 50% ("in part thanks to all those hybrid RAV4s").
- Honda is "basing its entire business on hybrids until at least 2030."
- Around one-third of America's hybrid drivers "transition to a fully electric vehicle when they next switch cars."
- In September 57% of America's car shoppers "were considering a fully electric auto, according to JD Power. However, among hybrid households, that share was almost 70%."
Toyota/Ford hybrid drivetrain is the bomb (Score:4, Informative)
The Toyota / Ford hybrid (and phev... they're basically the same) power train are really cool and surprisingly simple mechanically.
probably the pinnacle of ice gas engine application. Atkinson cycle engine and eCVT (with no belt and relatively light use of clutches)
https://youtu.be/O61WihMRdjM?s... [youtu.be]
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I see hybrids as a way to convince sceptics. Once they find they are mostly using the battery anyway, and especially with a PHEV where they get used to charging it, next time they might just go electric only and enjoy those benefits too.
No oil, no belts, no gearbox, no fluids, no spark plugs, no alternator, no radiator and pump, very little brake wear... They realize what a pointless load of effort the ICE part is.
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I see hybrids as a way to convince sceptics.
Maybe there are a few people who will shockingly discover that all of their daily driving fits within the range of their PHEV's battery without the ICE engine kicking in, but I doubt it. If anything, I think hybrids will just reinforce how much more convenient gas is than having to make a half hour pit stop to charge.
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I think I should probably clarify that when you're driving a full EV, then you get to experience that the battery is likely more than adequate for your daily driving needs. PHEVs tend to use much smaller capacity batteries, so when the engine kicks on during that unexpected grocery run after work, the driver might think "Gee, lucky I had this, if this was a full EV I'd be out of juice!"
Whereas if it actually had been a full EV, it would've had the capacity for the unexpected trip, no problem.
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A friend of mine in Montana had precisely this experience, after buying a PHEV RAV4.
However, he's an intelligent person who notices things.
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It obviously depends how big the battery is, but they don't need to do all their driving on it. Just enough that they see the cost savings and ideally get to see how convenient charging is.
It also helps them fix their understanding of distance. In my experience most people over-estimate distances by about 100%, so think battery range is less than it really is. Back in the day people would ask if I could get to the next city over in my Leaf, which was 22 miles away.
well, my mom figured it out... (Score:2)
She got a Toyota Rav4 plug-in hybrid last spring. It gets about 40 miles of all-electric range, and almost all of her trips are under that. When we visited my inlaws over the holidays (with some gas assist) she joked that she might need to fill the tank again, and she hoped she remembered how. It would be her third tank.
She was cross-shopping electric cars last year, but wasn't ready to try it. But I'm pretty sure her next car will be electric. It's plenty clear to her now that 250 miles of electric range w
Re: well, my mom figured it out... (Score:2)
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I bought an F150 Hybrid in 2025. (Score:5, Insightful)
For the following reasons, in priority order:
1) Better gas mileage.
2) Backup power generation (which is freaking amazing!).
3) Longer intervals between oil changes and maintenance.
4) Actually able to tow.
And lastly, the Lightning, other than being fast AF, sucks at being a truck.
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And lastly, the Lightning, other than being fast AF, sucks at being a truck.
It may surprise you but that's not a problem for the majority of truck owners.
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The core reality here is both depressing and true. But it's not really the majority. It feels like it is, if you live in a city, but 9 out of 10 of truck owners are not in dense urban areas.
That said, in a dense urban area, I suspect 90% or greater of all pickup trucks are just expensive testicle extensions.
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That said, in a dense urban area, I suspect 90% or greater of all pickup trucks are just expensive testicle extensions.
You only need to look at the overall population. 80% of people in the US live in urban areas.
But it's not really the majority. It feels like it is,
To even reach 50%, rural areas would need to have a truck ownership level that is 5x higher than urban areas.
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I live in the near-city suburbs. Most of the pickups I see are bought as a statement and never used for cargo. The lightning, which goes fast yes, was perfect for those guys, assuming they owned a home.
If you want a really useful truck, you should import a bongo truck. I am amazed when people (other than perhaps gardeners) profess to me that their 4-foot beds are someone useful. I can get a longer 2x4 in my hatchback than they can in their truck. I was car shopping just last week, looking at the PV5.
Re: I bought an F150 Hybrid in 2025. (Score:2)
Re:I bought an F150 Hybrid in 2025. (Score:4, Insightful)
The Lightning is great.
So great that Ford gave it the axe.
While Ford wasn't wrong in their assumption that lots of trucks spend their lives as pavement princesses and would be just fine as EVs, truck buyers tend to buy based on how they imagine they'll be using their truck, rather than the reality.
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The Lightning is great.
So great that Ford gave it the axe.
While Ford wasn't wrong in their assumption that lots of trucks spend their lives as pavement princesses and would be just fine as EVs, truck buyers tend to buy based on how they imagine they'll be using their truck, rather than the reality.
Elena Scherr has a good column in this months Car&Driver noting the proliferation of Trail/Wilderness/Off-Road packages on all the trucks at the mall, seems to be paywalled unfortunately. In any case it was posited that perhaps people like vehicles with big tires because they better handle potholes and pavement heaves and speed humps and don't scrape on curb stops. Certainly we have some crappy roads around here, so I can see the appeal of truck based on the reduced fragility alone. If you have to sh
Re: handle potholes and pavement heaves (Score:2)
My wife likes our Subaru Outback for the same reason. It sits 3-4 inches higher than our sedan, and the tires are bigger and squishier.
People buy giant trucks and SUVs for other reasons.
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Re: I bought an F150 Hybrid in 2025. (Score:2)
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How come Ford can't make it work, when Rivian can?
There are some Chinese trucks that seem pretty good, but of course you aren't allowed to buy them.
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You're wasting your life with a gas car not with the EV as studies have shown that human driving performance degrades rapidly if driving for more than about 2.5 hours without at least a 15min break (which is all you need to recharge your EV at a fast charger to get you the next 2.5 hours).
Do yourself a favour, buy an EV, it may force you take breaks and actually help you get to your campsite alive. And if you don't care about your own life, maybe consider the other people you're likely to have a head on col
Re: I bought an F150 Hybrid in 2025. (Score:2)
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Agreed hybrids are just a bad idea. If you really need the gas range, you want an EREV, not a hybrid. Good luck finding what you want in one of those right now, though.
To misquote an orange yoshi (Score:2)
Less carbon is less carbon, you can't say it's only half.
More complicated (Score:4, Insightful)
Gas cars people understand. ICE = internal combustion engine.
No-plug hybrids are Gas powered generators that run an electric motor. Sometimes they let you add direct ICE power to the electric. They get better mileage but cost more mileage than ICE. Also cost more to repair. But they have the best possible range.
Plug in hybrids are almost always plugged in at home but everyone keeps buying gasoline to run them when your home's charge runs out. Mainly because plugging them in on the road is VERY expensive - more so than buying gasoline. They have the same advantages and disadvantages as no-plug hybrid except their cheapest mode is running on home's electricity.
Pure EVs are more expensive than ICE, but not as bad as hybrids. But maintance on them is significantly cheaper. They are cheap to run on home electricity but again, too expensive to run on bought electricity.
How to get pure EV's adopted:
1) Make EV chargers more prevalent. They need to be everywhere a gas station is and more. Parking lots should include them - especially office lots and hotels. They need to be considered an expected perk - the equivalent of white lines drawn on the parking lot.
2) Make EV chargers cheap. You cannot charge a premium for this stuff if you want people to use it. Hard to stop the greedy sob's if they think of it as a profit center. The reason people use the charger is to save money and if people with hybrids can buy gasoline cheaper they will not buy electricity. Put a max price on it below the gas equivalent price.
3) Make gas more expensive. The US has some of the lowest gas tax. In 2019, the only ones cheaper are Brazil, Indonesia, and Russia.
If you do these things then EV's will become common.
As long as people have to worry about finding a place to charge, EVs will not be common. As long as a-holes try to overcharge people for electricity as compared to gasoline, EV's will not be common.
Stop these things and EV's will be common. If EV's become common, we won't have to ration gasoline.
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#2 and #3 are spot on.
#1 is a nice-to have but not vital. Most EV owners, unless they are road-tripping, never, EVER use a for-pay charger. I own 2 EVs and have never paid for non-home electrons except to test plug and software compatibility for a just-in-case scenario. Not once. Even on vacation, driving an EV around a national park, the hotel provided free charging and the national park provided free charging.
Now IF you got #2 and #3, you'd start to need #1, because more people would use them.
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#2 and #3 are spot on.
#1 is a nice-to have but not vital. Most EV owners, unless they are road-tripping, never, EVER use a for-pay charger.
Location, location, location. Those that own a home have options that those the lease/rent generally do not have (while in some locations, an EV charging solution is a "most have" for renters, and offered as a clear benefit by the property manager, and those consumer can choose their rental accordingly, some simply do not have that choice). While there are locations which are mandating EV charging for future developments of MDUs, that is simply not universal.
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#1 is essential. Not everyone lives in a house with garage / off street parking. I am wholly reliant on such a system myself, I simply have no way of charging from my home so it's just great that there are 6 chargers within a 3min walk from my house (and the council is building another pole for 2 more since they are starting to be more congested).
It's also one of the reason range anxiety is no longer relevant where I live. Last time I drove to Belgium I didn't even look up if there was a charger at my desti
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Trump is stealing Venezuela's oil. It's not going to get more expensive, although it might affect other things.
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The 'killer app' will be a smaller lighter (and safest) solid state battery with a range over 500 miles Thats when adoption will take off to get the people that are hesitant to switch
Nah.
All that's required is that EVs be cheap. A 300-mile range is sufficient. When the purchase price of a car with a 300-mile range is at or only slightly above the purchase price of a comparable ICEV, EVs sales will explode because they're cheaper to operate and maintain. All of the range anxiety and concerns about fires (which are silly, since gasoline vehicles are a lot more prone to burning) will inhibit a few people, for a little while, but pretty soon they'll all have friends and relatives who a
They don't really work like that (Score:2)
While not as clean as an electric vehicle, hybrids offer sneaky carbon cuts as well. Americans, on average, drive about 38 miles a day, which requires about one gallon of gas in most basic hybrids. Contemporary plug-in hybrids, which can run on all-battery power, can cover almost that entire range without the gas engine kicking in.
Hybrids will average 40, 50, 60 whatever mpg, which is great, but a plugin hybrid's larger battery doesn't turn it into an electric car. The combined power of the car is from all motors, and you're not going to like driving an SUV 38 miles on half or a quarter its total power output, whatever the configuration is. If you don't want to waste gas, you just go easy on the throttle and the car will use only the power output you need from any combination of the motors.
I think where a plugin hybrid makes more sen
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I have a pure EV (cooper mini) that isn't very fast in the upper ranges of horsepower, e.g. freeway passing, but it's very quick around town.
The idea of EREV "hybrids" is interesting (Score:2)
In theory, at least, I like the idea behind the Extended Range EVs like the upcoming Ford Ranger. If I understand it correctly, they're basically a full-blown EV (with a pure EV drive train) - but they also have a generator onboard that can be used to recharge the batteries if necessary.
It seems like that addresses the range anxiety some people stress about, without having to deal with the more complicated drive train of most current hybrids (where there's more points of potential failure than either an ICE
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https://www.consumerreports.or... [consumerreports.org]
The hybrid is the most complicated but apparently that is swamped by other factors that matter more, maybe that Toyota is the leading maker of hybrids.
I wouldn't bet my life on the qualify of this CR ranking as to which is the absolute best, but they clearl
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This quote about relative reliability from that Consumer Reports article does make sense:
It's also true that ICE vehicles have been around even longer
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Where are the mostly electric hybrids? (Score:2)
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EV's should cost less then ICE vehicles, they have fewer and lower cost parts.
It's the battery. The only reason we did not have electric cars 100 years ago (they existed before ICE cars) is the battery.
EV minus battery should be cheaper. And the battery should be cheaper than gasoline.
In Australia, a BYD Atto 2 small SUV is around us$22k. So already cheaper than non-Chinese petrol competitors.
Cars used to be far more expensive in Australia - until they abolished the tariffs.
True For Me (Score:2)
Interesting. That was the case for me. Went from 22 years in a Prius to an Ioniq 6.
Maybe but more likely PHEV is a transition (Score:2)
Why didn't I go electric, well my last car I ended up selling to one of my kids cheap as they needed a car quick. Having that experience, my kids are in apartments, I figured I might be doing the same in a few years for another child, that
PHEV FTW! (Score:2)
I drive a 2018 Chevy Volt PHEV and did not buy any gas in 2025.
I did burn about 7.5 gallons, but that's less than a tankful.
Hybrid no-brainer (Score:2)
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Hybrids are legacy auto companies trying to remain relevant.
By this point all (?) the legacy auto companies also have had at least some BEVs for 5+ years and HEVs for longer. As massive corporations they're relatively soul-less and are going to sell whatever sells and they can money on. on BEVs apparently even what they can't make money on...
Re:No. Just better mileage (Score:4, Insightful)
Their big problem is that they haven't figured out how to make money on EVs. Part of the problem is their dealer networks don't want to sell them due to the lower maintenance costs. That keeps the volume down to where they can't amortize the costs properly.
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Just get rid of dealer laws, circumstances have changed and they are probably one of the most egregious political lobbies right now, pure protectionism.
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Agreed.
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But unfortunately many plug-in hybrid owners just treat them as hybrids and never bother to plug them in. That's pretty stupid, but studies show that many people really are that dumb.
Some people legitimately don't have a place to plug them in. I got an earful one time at an EA station where some mom and her kid showed up with their EV SUV. She began the conversation with "How do your like your Bolt?", and then immediately segued into a rant about how she can't wait to be rid of her EV since moving into an apartment and now having to deal with this specific EA location for all of her charging. And yeah, for the most part what you might've heard about lines at EA chargers and their lege
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Tesla owners were plenty chatty back in 2015 when I got my Model S. Now there are just so many that it doesn't feel new anymore. I remember when we used to wave at each other when we say another Tesla, but that was a long time ago now.
But yes, EVs are great if you can plug in at home, but if you have on-street parking or are renting, they can be quite inconvenient.
Re:No. Just better mileage (Score:5, Insightful)
If you cannot charge at home, their cost per mile goes up to the same as a gas car's or more.
Right now, if you don't own your home, or are not sure you'll be in a house for a long time, buying an EV is foolish.
But I think the right answer here is not to mistakenly downgrade EVs -- we should be making sure parking lots provide 120v plugs. 120v is all more than half of the US needs to handle their day-to-day driving, and is cheap to install. Remember -- EVs never, ever draw more than a $30 space heater on a 120v circuit -- 1500 watts.
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If you cannot charge at home, their cost per mile goes up to the same as a gas car's or more.
In California, even if you can charge at home, the cost per mile is more than many gasoline-powered cars:
Model 3: 3.7 to 4.2 miles per kWh. PG&E residential service averages 45.33 cents average per kWh. That's 10.79 to 12.25 cents per mile.
My usual gas station is $3.90 per gallon. A Prius hybrid gets 56 miles per gallon. That's 6.9 cents per mile. Add to that an oil change for $100 every 5,000 miles on oil changes, which is 2 cents per mile, and the Prius hybrid is still 2 to 4 cents per mile cheape
Re: No. Just better mileage (Score:3, Informative)
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Well, if you can charge from solar the equation changes significantly-- closer to $0.09/kWh or $0.02/mile.
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Well, if you can charge from solar the equation changes significantly-- closer to $0.09/kWh or $0.02/mile.
Sure, but only if you also have a Powerwall or similar. Otherwise, your car is going to be at work during the day, rather than charging at home, and you're going to be getting jack s**t for your excess solar during the day thanks to PG&E's rate structure, and then buying that power back at night at full price.
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Really the two are close enough that the balance could easily change during the life of the car due to shifting prices for gas, electricity, or a mileage-based tax on EV's to pay for roads.
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That is all true except PG&E's EV2 plan has off-peak energy at 28.5 cents per kWh, which should cover most of the needs of people who charge at home. That rate makes it competitive with the Prius, even before you consider oil changes.
Of course, they also charge you more for your heat and air during the day. With a whole-home time-of-use plan, they're likely to get their money either way.
I'm pretty sure the only way you're not going to get screwed with your pants on is to have a separate meter on an EV-B rate plan. Totally worth $1.50 a month. Too bad I'm not currently eligible because of where I live (because PG&E doesn't own the meters). Then again, I have unlimited supercharging, so I guess I probably wouldn't use it anyway. :
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PG&E residential service averages 45.33 cents average per kWh.
That's crazy? California has huge amounts of solar generation, but no cheap mid-day tariffs ?
I'm seeing 15c/kWh for SDG&E at night. Hang on, you have no choice. Privately owned for-profit state-protected monopolies -WTF?
Here in Perth Australia, same climate as LA, its 6c/kWr from 9am-3pm if you choose the appropriate tariff. (us0.36 peak)
So if you live in an apartment and can't install your own soalr panels, you can benefit form excess from others.
So I guess the reality in California is if you want
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PG&E residential service averages 45.33 cents average per kWh.
That's crazy? California has huge amounts of solar generation, but no cheap mid-day tariffs ?
PG&E nearly went bankrupt with lawsuits over their mishandling of gas pipe maintenance (San Bruno explosion) and high tension line maintenance (multiple wildfires). If they can't make a profit from cutting corners on maintenance, their only choice is to make a profit with extortionate rate hikes. /s
In all seriousness, the biggest mistake multiple California governors have made was not letting PG&E go bankrupt, buying up the assets, and starting over with a state-owned not-for-profit power company.
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Holy crap. I thought Germany had high electricity prices.
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Add to that an oil change for $100 every 5,000 miles on oil changes
Every... 5,000... miles? Are you out of your mind? Cars didn't need oil changes that frequently even back when they used unleaded gasoline. How far are you willing to go to lie for the petroleum industry?
An oil change for $100? Are you out of your mind? Where are you getting your car serviced? Do they wear tuxedos?
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You'd be surprised how many people still legitimately believe that you need to do an oil change that frequently. The problem is dealers. They make money of oil changes so they tell the customers that you need to do it every 6 months or 5000 miles.
I got that advice on my previous car (10000km / 6 months) despite the manufacturer recommend interval being 22500 miles (36000km) or 2 years.
This isn't the oil industry. The oil industry is actively pushing and advertising their products as longer and longer life.
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Add to that an oil change for $100 every 5,000 miles on oil changes
Every... 5,000... miles? Are you out of your mind? Cars didn't need oil changes that frequently even back when they used unleaded gasoline. How far are you willing to go to lie for the petroleum industry?
An oil change for $100? Are you out of your mind? Where are you getting your car serviced?
Jiffy Lube in the Bay Area. And while cars are under warranty, if you don't do an oil change at the recommended interval, it can negatively impact your ability to get engine problems covered under the warranty, so most people do so.
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Or if you have solar.
You aren't factoring in all the other maintenance a fossil needs too. Brakes, fluids, belts, gearbox, exhaust, filters, all sorts of crap.
Why is electricity so expensive there? Here you can get a cheap overnight rate that is about 0.1USD/kWh.
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You aren't factoring in all the other maintenance a fossil needs too. Brakes, fluids, belts, gearbox, exhaust, filters, all sorts of crap.
EVs and hybrids shoudln't have significantly different brake wear. Factored in oil changes, which includes the oil filter. I've never needed to add any other fluids in any car I've owned other than wiper fluid, which an EV also requires. I guess I left out the air filter, but that's such a tiny maintenance cost compared with the other stuff that it almost isn't even worth mentioning.
Belts and transmission do wear out eventually, but that's not an issue unless your car is outside of its warranty period,
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Most wiring for mains electricity is rated up to 600V. So it isn't much more expensive to run a 240V 15A circuit as it is to run a 120V 15A circuit, since permitting, blueprints, trenching, conduit, wiring, and enclosures make up most of the cost of an install. Going from 1.44 kW to 2.88 kW makes a big difference in charging.
Also, it can actually be cheaper to just run one 60A circuit to the parking lot with several EVSEs that can load-share as opposed to four discrete 15A circuits. As a bonus, if only o
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Bingo. I am lucky -- I have 240v, 50 amp ready to go when I go for a charger, and the charger can just be plugged in via a dryer outlet, or hard-wired in.
However, when I go around the area I live in, in a mile radius, there are two chargers at one business, and those are at most 120 volt, "overnight" chargers that only add a few miles per hour to the battery bank... and the cords are always gone (yummy copper for the meth-heads, I guess).
If you don't have your own charger, EV life sucks. You have to take
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That last is a bigger thing than people think, and not just in the context of climate change, but homelessness as well (a mobile, self-contained safe space). Let alone other situations that require a field generator.
Re:No. Just better mileage (Score:4, Insightful)
We also have a ICE SUV. That thing gets about 20 mpg with its 16 gallon tank. When we need to haul things it’s great to have, but it only gets used about 3000 miles a year theses days. Though to be fair, we also live in a walkable area with two train lines and I now work remotely. I’m eyeing all electric Rivian R2 in 3 years when I pass it down when the oldest turns 16. We are the demographics this article talks about.
With the majority of US households having 2 vehicles, I do think if when it came time to replace one of them the did so with an ice vehicle it would be wise to do so. With the way our infrastructure is in this country having an ICE or PHEV, hybrid vehicle around is probably wise. But an EV costs way less to maintain and are a pleasure to drive. Plus if you have a garage/place to charge you always have max range when you leave the house. But cars that can take gas, or diesel, are still better for long road trips and towing things. Your household having one of each gives you the best of both worlds.
Re: No. Just better mileage (Score:2)
They will plug them in if that will improve the performance.
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It's friction and habit, not stupidity. To make the most of a PHEV, you have the friction of getting home charging installed, and then remembering to plug in every night or every other night. Plugging in that often is a fair bit of friction, and with a PHEV, you don't have to do it, whereas with an EV, you do have to plug it in, but probably only once a week or so, which is a lot less friction.
Re: No. Just better mileage (Score:2)
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Let's consider "never bother to plug them in." Here is some of the bother:
1. No garage.
2. Garage full of stuff, no room for car, because housing code does not provide for adequate storage space.
3. Too much bother to pay electrician $600 to install proper power outlet.
4. Too much bother to pay electrician $800 to upgrade breaker panel.
5. Too much bother to pay electrician $1800 to install new wiring.
6. Too much bother to pay power company $6000 to upgrade line drop to higher amps.
7. Too much bother t
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Buy why by a plug-in instead of a regular hybrid if you're not going to plug it in? Maybe the model you want doesn't offer both options, but otherwise it seems dumb.
As to the questions:
1. No garage: If you still have off-street parking, you can plug it in outside.
2. Garage full: Again, plug it in outside.
3. Cost to install outlet: Just use a regular 120V outlet; most PHEVs have smaller batteries that will still fill up overnight on a 120V outlet.
4. Upgrade breaker panel: Almost never needed, and you can al
Re:No. Just better mileage (Score:4, Informative)
Hybrids and plug-in hybrids to boot, are indeed not EVs. They have all the complexity of an ICE car + the complexity of an EV. They are frankly nuts.
To the contrary. Plug-in hybrids have all the advantages of an EV, with all the advantages of a gas car.
"The complexity of an EV" you mention is nearly zero. Electric motors are really really simple. The real downside of an EV is that the range is directly proportional to battery mass. The vast majority of car use in the United States is under 35 miles per day. You simply don't need a huge battery for 90 percent of car usage. But, you want to take care of that remaining 10%. So, the gas engine solves that, with the advantage that since the electric engine takes care of starting and stopping torque, the gas engine can be optimized for best performance at constant RPM.
A win for every system in the car.
EREV cars should replace them in the very near future.
I had to look that up. "Extended Range Electric Vehicle." It's a type of hybrid
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The reason an EREV is not really a hybrid is that the gas engine never drives the wheels directly. It only runs a single speed, its most efficient, to recharge the battery. The decoupling of the engine from the drive train makes it significantly less complex mechanically, as well. Most new black cabs in London are EREVs from LEVC. They're pretty good.
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hybrids are just the best of the two worlds: more ecological short distance while providing reliability and long distance when needed.
It really depends on how often you'll be taking those "long distance" trips. I travel outside the range of my EV so infrequently that I'd just prefer to fly instead anyway.
Re: Full EVs should have never happened (Score:2)
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I hike in remote locations every weekend between March and November. 150 miles drive in, 150 miles return, approx 30-50 miles around where I'm staying. The very last thing on my mind would be to try and locate a charger and waste precious hours of my free time waiting at the charging point. And no - leaving my car at the charger all day is not an option - other people need to use it, too, and when I walk, I walk for anywhere between 8 and 12 hours in peak summer.
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Hybrids are the worst of both worlds, not the best. EREVs you could argue are the BOBW, hybrids are high-complexity and lower efficiency for a less punchy/quiet/low-cost result.
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No thanks. EV is perfectly fine and I often drive long distances frequently crossing multiple countries in the process with my EV without a care in the world. The only thing a hybrid gives me is more mechanical complexity, and while as an engineer I generally masturbate to that kind of stuff I'm getting old an cynical now.
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Re: Full EVs should have never happened (Score:2)
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...and money. All those rich people who live in California forget that most of the world can't afford reasonable-range EVs without significant financial stress. Plus all the time wasted hanging out at charging points for those who don't own a property, which is actually quite a high number worldwide where many live in rented properties or flats with no access to a charger.
Re: Full EVs should have never happened (Score:2)
Which is not who 99.99% of people are.
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WHAT? 70% of the US lives in single family homes. A garage is nice, but not necessary for an EV. Almost everyone with a single-family home will save money and have a better driving and maintenance experience with an EV. EVs are just better. Even road trips with charging go pretty well with them, and that's less than 20 days per year (that's 5% of your days of using the car and it's an outlier -- most drive less on road trips than that). So some inconvenience on road trips is made up for by the cost sa
Re: Full EVs should have never happened (Score:2)
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Exactly. Your free time is highly valuable. Why would you be spending it on hours of charging, or worrying if you have enough miles left "in the tank" to give your family the best time they deserve?
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If your commute is not that long
Most current generation EVs have around 260-300 miles of range. If that's the kind of commute you're dealing with, an EV will actually save you a fortune in gas costs. Still, I couldn't imagine having to deal with that much driving every workday.
if you have a home to charge your EV overnight
This I'll give you. The charging situation in the USA for people who can't just park in their garage or driveway and charge, presently sucks.
and if you can afford second vehicle for long trips
Depending on how often longer trips are taken, it can sometimes still be cost effective to rent an ICE vehicle just for th
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I completely agree with your replies above. I'd like to expand/amplify just a bit.
If you do not have a single-family home or a (these are so rare) intelligent apartment setup an EV is NOT a good idea -- it's a terrible idea in fact. But the poster above shouldn't be crapping on EVs, he should be pissed that we haves are getting a great deal, and a better, safer car than him. He pays more for gas, more for maintenance, more for medical bills, more for fire damage (statistically speaking), etc. The origin
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Re: Full EVs should have never happened (Score:2)
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I own a 2024 EV Mini Cooper which is a really nice car with a really short range - about 100 miles. It fit how we used our previous gas Mini (mainly my wife's commuter) and she just likes how Minis handle and are easy to park. But it was never a big seller, most people expect more range for the money.
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if you can afford second vehicle for long trips
That's funny. My EV is the vehicle of choice for long trips. Fuel costs are much lower than my ICEV, and long-distance travel makes that more important, not less.
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I agree in general. They're mostly all the same and all way too big, and a stupid shape to boot.
But try driving a used Bolt. They're cheap, get good range (they charge too slow for road tripping but fine on a 120v or 240v plug) and a good size.
New Bolts, when they start making them again, just support your argument -- they are only going to make the EUV/larger model going forward.
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If hybrids are a gateway drug to EV's, do we need to ban them? The Orange one needs to know!
Along with windmills, banning hybrids seem like a no-brainier if you want to promote the businesses of oil country.
Re: Betteridge's law of headlines (Score:2)