ASUS Executive Says MacBook Neo is 'Shock' to PC Industry (pcmag.com) 226
ASUS says the MacBook Neo is a "shock" to the Windows PC ecosystem. "In the past, Apple's pricing situation has always been high, so for them to release a very budget-friendly product, this is obviously a shock to the entire industry," said ASUS co-CEO S.Y. Hsu in a Tuesday earnings call. While he expects PC makers to respond, rising AI-driven memory shortages could push hardware prices higher across the industry. PCMag reports: Hsu said he believes all the PC players -- including Microsoft, Intel, and AMD -- take the MacBook Neo threat seriously. "In fact, in the entire PC ecosystem, there have been a lot of discussions about how to compete with this product," he added, given that rumors about the MacBook Neo have been making the rounds for at least a year. Despite the competitive threat, Hsu argued that the MacBook Neo could have limited appeal. He pointed to the laptop's 8GB of "unified memory," or what amounts to its RAM, and how customers can't upgrade it.
He also described the MacBook Neo as a "content consumption" device, similar to an iPad. "This is different from the use case of a mainstream notebook," which can handle more compute-intensive tasks, Hsu said. "How big of an impact [the MacBook Neo] will have on the PC industry will still require some time for us to observe," Hsu said while suggesting it might not gain traction among Windows PC users due to software differences. "Of course, the entire Windows PC ecosystem will push out products to compete against Apple," he added.
He also described the MacBook Neo as a "content consumption" device, similar to an iPad. "This is different from the use case of a mainstream notebook," which can handle more compute-intensive tasks, Hsu said. "How big of an impact [the MacBook Neo] will have on the PC industry will still require some time for us to observe," Hsu said while suggesting it might not gain traction among Windows PC users due to software differences. "Of course, the entire Windows PC ecosystem will push out products to compete against Apple," he added.
The "mom just buy this" machine (Score:5, Insightful)
For me in my career of both work and family Mac's have always been the preferred solution for non-techie family members; they're just harder to make a mess of things than Windows (which a user can get themselves into trouble with, even on W11) and Linux which is a whole nother can of worms that you're gonna be that family members tech support for.
Macs are boxed in walled gardens but that is a good thing in some situations. The downside has always been the price but now, now you better believe that this will be a solid suggestion when I get asked what computer to get your older relatives.
It doesn't hurt that Macs IMO have at least a pretty good minimum level of build quality compared to say Asus who while capable of building nice machine also make some crappy and fragile machines, as well as their customer support always, always, always being spotty and a PITA.
Really companies like Asus need to sort that shit out if they want to keep up, it's not just the machine itself but Apples entire system including the stores.
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My mother has a Windows laptop that she uses once a year to run TurboTax. Apple's laptop is still overpriced for that use case. Now, this isn't to say Apple doesn't have a place with the aging boomer demographic - my mom is absolutely addicted to her iPad.
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True, I suppose this is closer to an iPad with a keyboard than a Windows machine.
On the opposite end my mother never took to tablets in general, she is just so used to have a "real" computer even if the iPad would accomplish every goal she has.
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In general, companies like Asus have sorted this shit out quite well.
For example when Apple made ultrabooks fashionable, they made a line of them. When Steam Deck and GPD made tablet sized full PCs cool, they made that one too. When chromebooks became a thing, they made those. They even made a gaming phone when that was a thing.
Their problem right now isn't this sort of engineering problem. It's the cost problem. Memory is needed for basically everything and its price blew up. That drove consumption down. A
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Crap these days is pretty good. Sure, add a few 100€ to get a fantastic machine.
I think the new mac is a really good move though. Phone h
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PC market is in trouble.
For other laptop manufacturers they will have a hard time competing on a variety of factors for the next few years. Sure they could offer more RAM and storage. However right now those are at a premium. Maybe next year pricing will be better. That does not help the budge segment where every little cost matters.
Where they have more problems is with the case. Right now most of their laptops are assembled with plastic cases. Using aluminum will not be cheap nor easy and there are none in the budge range for a
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This is just defending, and encouraging, tech illiteracy.
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Cheap Chromebooks are crap. I'm not about to give Apple any money but you're leaving out the important reason why someone might choose to do so. Their hardware is far better and their software is somewhat better. If Google didn't over-limit Chromebooks then the software might be a wash, but they do so.
It's a gateway drug to Apple's farm, where you are the livestock.
Let me tell you about a little ad company called Google.
He's not entirely wrong; but... (Score:3)
Asus can't do much about the fact that Apple can just throw a phone CPU into a computer and call it good enough with a reasonably straight face; but it is on them that the PC bargain bin has a lot of plasticy trash; and much of it isn't even the "clunky; but at least trivially repairable" trash like it once was. You do see the occasional combination of a real cheapie CPU (normally an N150 or one of the quasi-embedded Intels that they don't really want anyone to think about) with some degree of build quality from the slightly weirder chinese outfits like chuwi(when they aren't fudging the model numbers in firmware); but low-end PCs, to the degree they aren't just plain bad, seem to systematically overpay for CPU and neglect other elements.
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I would say the Neo looks great for this price range, I agree with that, but you are kind of underselling the PC a little.
N150 laptops are usually wayyy cheaper than that. At the 599 range there are decent options with Ryzen CPU's, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD and reasonable build quality. Especially HP and lenovo have some pretty decent build quality devices in this range.
And really with apple repair costs and quality issues you should include applecare+ for $140 as a necessary addition for any macbook.
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Intel and AMD are in the somewhat embarrassing position of a 4w phone SoC actually punching pretty hard compared to their cheapie offerings(though in both cases you'll have more options on RAM, at
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To be fair on 8GB issue, you don't really need it yet if you're not a high end gamer or a power user.
I run an old 16GB machine with an active RAM tracker on a separate display that's on at all times. Until last 2 years, I saw it going above 50% only in two scenarios:
1. When I run a browser with a lot of active tabs + android emulator that reserves a good chunk of RAM + a decent game all at once.
2. When something has a memory leak and just slowly eats up ram.
I actually felt for years that I shouldn't have in
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Alas, I've seen Firefox use up 12 GB of RAM on it's own with just 7 or 8 browser tabs open.
Now, that's not really Firefox's fault, but it does show that some web apps out there are incredibly bloated.
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To be fair, it's good practice to use as much RAM as possible for caching. Many programs will cache more things in their resident set if the memory is available.
Gleaning useful information on memory usage is difficult on modern OS's with advanced virtual memory systems. Disabling swap might reveal memory pressure more readily, or if swap is on, load average sometimes reveals it.
consumption device? (Score:5, Insightful)
He also described the MacBook Neo as a "content consumption" device, similar to an iPad. "This is different from the use case of a mainstream notebook,"
Not really, it's not a high end machine but it's perfectly capable for most users. And with the price of memory going up people are still buying windows laptops with 8GB or even 4, which will perform much worse than the macbook.
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People tag every Apple device they'd like to belittle as a "content consumption device." It's got a Unix operating system, runs gcc, Blender, KiCad, Photoshop, AutoCad....
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That smacked of complacency to me. This thing will be perfectly fine for emails, presentations, maybe a spreadsheet or two, etc. Most students aren’t doing anything that begins to max out the capabilities of a machine.
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people are still buying windows laptops with 8GB or even 4
These are consumption devices as well. You can do basically fuck all with computers with that spec these days. Would something as basic as Lightroom even run on 4GB? It is barely functional on 8GB.
Lets face it most low end laptops are used for watching youtube videos, typing a simple word document, and sending an email. Workhorse machines need far higher specs than that.
A little bit of denial (Score:4, Interesting)
He also described the MacBook Neo as a "content consumption" device, similar to an iPad. "This is different from the use case of a mainstream notebook," which can handle more compute-intensive tasks, Hsu said
That describes pretty much most laptops in the $500-600 range. A few online reviews have shown the Neo can handle some compute intensive tasks. One reviewer was editing 4K video in Davinci Resolve then switched over to edit a 4K video in Final Cut Pro then switched over to Chrome. All 3 programs were running in the background at the same time. Now the Neo will not be fast for those workloads, but it can do them. It can probably handle the computing requirements for the average consumer.
The $500-600 budget laptop has been the one segment that other laptop manufacturers have not had to compete against Apple. Taking that away means only the sub $500 segment which probably has razor thin margins or almost no margins.
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A few online reviews have shown the Neo can handle some compute intensive tasks. One reviewer was editing 4K video in Davinci Resolve then switched over to edit a 4K video in Final Cut Pro then switched over to Chrome.
With the largest storage option being 512GB, you're not going to be doing much video editing on this laptop even if the CPU is technically up to the task. Therein lies Apple's usual budget device pain point: they won't let you equip it with better storage and RAM specs, because that might cannibalize sales of their higher end machines.
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With the largest storage option being 512GB, you're not going to be doing much video editing on this laptop even if the CPU is technically up to the task.
My point was the Neo is more than capable of editing 4K video without issues unlike what Hsu implied.
Therein lies Apple's usual budget device pain point: they won't let you equip it with better storage and RAM specs, because that might cannibalize sales of their higher end machines.
That is the same budget pain point as Windows machines. Adding more RAM and storage is not free. It will increase the price.
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That is the same budget pain point as Windows machines. Adding more RAM and storage is not free. It will increase the price.
Many entry-level laptops still actually have socketed NVME drives. Yeah, it certainly isn't free, but if you wanted a cheap machine with a ton of storage, that's absolutely doable in the PC realm. But okay, yeah, most people these days aren't going to crack open their brand new laptop and swap the drive. Still, it's rather obvious Apple as intentionally gimped the storage configurations (most machines at this price point offer 512GB / 1TB as the options) and making the RAM not configurable at all was cle
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Many entry-level laptops still actually have socketed NVME drives. Yeah, it certainly isn't free, but if you wanted a cheap machine with a ton of storage, that's absolutely doable in the PC realm.
But not for $500-600.
But okay, yeah, most people these days aren't going to crack open their brand new laptop and swap the drive.
That cannot be done with some of these budget laptops as the SSD is also soldered onto the board. If the consumer could swap out the SSD, it would increase the price $100 for 512GB and $200 for 1TB.
Still, it's rather obvious Apple as intentionally gimped the storage configurations (most machines at this price point offer 512GB / 1TB as the options)
Some offer 512GB at $599. I could find no laptop that offers 1TB at $599. Worse yet is there are many models that do not even have 8GB/226GB:
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That cannot be done with some of these budget laptops as the SSD is also soldered onto the board.
This bargain-bin laptop [amazon.com], much to my surprise, not only has a NVME slot but the RAM can be upgraded as well. It's actually fairly common for people who are into this sort of thing to post reviews when they've discovered an el cheapo machine that can be easily souped up a bit.
Granted, performance wise the machine would probably still be a dog even with upgraded RAM, but there are a few legitimate use cases where the upgraded storage of a bigger SSD might come in handy.
Some offer 512GB at $599. I could find no laptop that offers 1TB at $599.
I should've said "respective storage op
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This bargain-bin laptop [amazon.com], much to my surprise, not only has a NVME slot but the RAM can be upgraded as well. It's actually fairly common for people who are into this sort of thing to post reviews when they've discovered an el cheapo machine that can be easily souped up a bit.
I am not sure about that model's storage can be upgraded. It says it has UFS storage not NVME. That means it is soldered in. This seems to be an issue with some manufacturers as they reuse the model name and number to encompass many different models. This review [pcmag.com] confirms that the storage cannot be upgraded.
So, you'd be looking at $699 for laptops with 1TB of storage.
Okay, show me Windows laptops with 1TB at $699. You can get them for sale for around $699 but regular prices exceed $699.
. That being said, my criticism is less over sticking to the pricing scheme and more about the fact that Apple won't even give you a 1TB option, even if you're willing to drop another extra $100 on it.
The pricing scheme is also designed to lower costs. By not offering a lot of optio
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This review [pcmag.com] confirms that the storage cannot be upgraded.
Journalism is dead, though I can't really fault them too much for not doing an in-depth review of a bargain basement laptop. The factory-installed storage can't be replaced, but there is a NVME socket for a secondary drive. [acer.com] At today's prices though, you could easily install a SSD that is worth more than the entire laptop, which is actually kind of hilarious.
Okay, show me Windows laptops with 1TB at $699. You can get them for sale for around $699 but regular prices exceed $699.
This Dell is $650. [dell.com] It also has 16GB of RAM and a backlit keyboard. Granted, it is one of those beastly huge 15" models, so the lack of a "thinness
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Journalism is dead, though I can't really fault them too much for not doing an in-depth review of a bargain basement laptop. The factory-installed storage can't be replaced, but there is a NVME socket for a secondary drive. [acer.com] At today's prices though, you could easily install a SSD that is worth more than the entire laptop, which is actually kind of hilarious.
No the review is correct. The problem is Acer names many, many models and variants as "Aspire Go 15" . In this case, the review is for the exact model that is listed on Amazon (AG15-32P-39R2). Your posting says the RAM is soldered in but there is a NVME slot for the AG15-32P. The review says they verified it has a single SODIMM module but there is no additional NVME slot. The reviewer or poster could be lying . . . or there are multiple models with many variants.
This Dell is $650. [dell.com] It also has 16GB of RAM and a backlit keyboard. Granted, it is one of those beastly huge 15" models, so the lack of a "thinness tax" might be in play here.
And the part where it has been discounted $27
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The vast majority of students will never have cause to do video editing, certainly not in any high end program. This is just not an issue for the target market.
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The vast majority of students will never have cause to do video editing, certainly not in any high end program. This is just not an issue for the target market.
A lot of the younger generation sees themselves as "influencers" and probably do want video editing capabilities from their laptop. Well, at least until they realize everyone and their brother has the same idea and they're not going to actually make any money doing it.
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MKBHD covered this in his review, and pointed out that FCP worked fine for basic video edits but not more complex activity. That’s just fine for influencers. Also, TikTok doesn’t need any video editing software to become a big star, it’s only YouTube that needs that. I stand by what I said, this is totally fine for the intended audience, and hits the mark in terms of key things they care about, like a good display, metal & solid build quality, etc.
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One reviewer was editing 4K video in Davinci Resolve then switched over to edit a 4K video in Final Cut Pro then switched over to Chrome.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you enjoy what you're doing. You can do that on a shitty Windows PC as well if only to prove a point. But if you're the type of user who knows that Davinci Resolve and Final Cut Pro are then you're not going to be buying a Macbook Neo even if you use this software only occasinally.
You're drawing the wrong comparison here. You don't need to pretend the Macbook Neo is something it isn't, we need to call out Asus for pretending their shitty $500-600 notebooks are anything mor
Neo is pretty significant.... (Score:5, Insightful)
The people saying it's just "a glorified Chromebook" are missing the point, IMO. Yeah, as Apple products go, it's underpowered and has limited ports. But it runs MacOS at a price point that was unreachable before without buying someone's older, used Mac.
Chromebooks suck, by and large, because they're designed to run Google's web software suite for use in a classroom. People wanting an all-purpose laptop at a low price point find out they got the low price point but not much else.
A Macbook Neo will come with official Apple support (including things like ability to walk into any retail Apple Store world-wide and make appointments to get some free help or training on using the machine and Apple's software apps). And recent versions of MacOS seem to be pretty optimized to run apps well inside an 8GB RAM limitation. (Remember that Apple was trying to trim the entry level price point on other machines of theirs like the Macbook Air for years by skimping on RAM. They had to make sure their OS could actually do useful things inside that memory footprint.)
Re:Neo is pretty significant.... (Score:5, Informative)
One of the ways Apple lowered the price to $599 was the fact they used the A18 Pro chip. There is already a node st TSMC making the chip so they did not have to start a new line. The 8GB limitation is because the A18 SOC has only 8GB RAM. Modifying it to use 16GB would require designing a new SOC. This is also the reason the Neo does not have Thunderbolt as the SOC does not support it.
It will be interesting to see the specs of the next generations of Neo. If Apple uses the A19 Pro SOC next year, they could increase the RAM to 12GB. It may not be until the 3rd gen Neo that Thunderbolt is a possibility.
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If they do
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I can see a lot of primary or secondary schools purchasing these if Apple will provide five years of support.
Historically the trend has been around 7 years of support. The oldest Mac supported by the current macOS 26 is a 2019 Macbook Pro.
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This has a keyboard though, and the iPad is not cheaper once you add a keyboard.
People WANT an Apple chromebook, not iPad (Score:2)
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I know easily 200 people who own iPads. Most of them do not like using them for web browsing for more than a quick lookup.
The real pain point of trying to use an iPad as a web browsing device is all the damn ads on the internet, and the fact that Apple has locked the browser down so tight that any sort of adblock implementation is easily defeated by anti-adblock scripts.
Also, after a few years of ownership, they just get dog slow in general. I've got a 5th gen iPad mini that I now only use for replying to texts and checking my Ring cameras. It's completely useless for anything else, since even just navigating around the UI h
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It's not a Chromebook, it's the return of the iBook.
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No, the biggest problem is it's a $600 laptop that feels premium.
It was nearly 2 decades ago when laptops were circling the sub-$1000 mark and everything was a sea of sameness - everyone used 1366x768 screens, crappy keyboard and stuff, and you really couldn't get anything better. Apple was making a killing because while all the PC makers were racing to the bottom, Apple decided to sell a premium laptop. It didn't feel cheap, it had a high quality high resolution screen and a really nice keyboard. Sure it
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They're probably ok with that. It brings people into their ecosystem who otherwise wouldn't have considered it. If someone buys a Neo today, there's a good chance they'll upgrade to an Air or Pro in a few years. Otherwise they would have bought a cheap Windows laptop today, and a midrange Windows laptop a few years from now.
If the cost of bringing in new customers is some extra support in the short term, they can easily afford it.
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Most people, no matter how tech-savvy they are, are not going to need any help to run their MacBook Neo. My father in law ran his Mac Mini for many years right up to his death at aged 85 without any issue. These things are not going to be painful for consumers to use the way that Windows machines can be.
...because THAT'S the problem... (Score:2)
Despite the competitive threat, Hsu argued that the MacBook Neo could have limited appeal. He pointed to the laptop's 8GB of "unified memory," or what amounts to its RAM, and how customers can't upgrade it.
...well, first off, 8GB of RAM *should* be enough for general use. As an example, MS Office 2007 required 256MB of RAM, Office 2003 required 128...and it doesn't have eight times the features to justify the 2GB RAM requirement for Office 2024. Don't get me started on Acrobat. Chrome is another notorious RAM eater, but that tends to be based on the amount of javascript websites are bloated with - there's no reason for a single website to be taking 4GB of RAM, and when they do, it's NEVER for a reason that be
Surprised no one mentioned financing (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple's real industry "shock" isn't that they released a new laptop with milquetoast hardware specs, it's that it (along with the rest of Apple's major products) can be purchased with 0% financing. [apple.com] They've taken a page right out of the auto industry's playbook - your product offering doesn't have to be anything special if you've got killer financing deals.
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Dunno about "shock" (Score:2)
8 GB of "unified memory", sharing that pool with cpu, gpu and whatever they're calling "neural net" these days. Almost certainly soldered in, not expandable.
256 or 512 GB main storage. I'm speculating, but I suspect that also is glued in, (or the case is glued together not expandable except by USB port.
All this for about $150-$200 more than a comparably outfitted Windows laptop.
Mind you, I profoundly dislike Windows. But people tend to buy Macs for creation, and this one seems to be outfitted prim
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All this for about $150-$200 more than a comparably outfitted Windows laptop.
Hey if you want to buy a Windows laptop for less that has these specs, go right ahead. When I researched it last, 8GB/256GB was about what Windows laptops offered at this price point. There are specific models that have discounts now and then. After this announcement from Apple, I suspect more Windows models will have to be discounted.
Mind you, I profoundly dislike Windows. But people tend to buy Macs for creation, and this one seems to be outfitted primarily for consumption, which is not Apple's audience.
Not from what I have seen. I know lots of Mac users who have no desire to create. Also for creators, Apple offers other models.
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I see too many people having issues with Win 11 and 8 GB / 256 GB configurations to ever recommend it.
Unless you're into playing around with Linux or Tiny11, or constantly cleaning up your system, you will likely wish you'd purchased something with 16 GB / 512 GB soon enough to really annoy you.
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I see too many people having issues with Win 11 and 8 GB / 256 GB configurations to ever recommend it.
With Windows 11 those specs are not recommended. For macOS, some people have said it is acceptable. I would not know to personally recommend it myself; however, if someone were to ask me what to buy for $600, I would say the Neo if they want to use macOS instead of Windows. For some people, preference and other requirements means they will not migrate away from Windows.
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if someone were to ask me what to buy for $600
If we're talking a Windows machine, I'd say hit the deal forums and be patient. This is a shitty economy to pay full price for anything if you're on a tight budget.
If we're talking a Mac, though? The Apple tax is what it is. Do some side hustle like Uber Eats deliveries until you can afford one of Apple's machines that aren't intentionally gimped. I'm mostly joking though - if someone has Apple tastes on an Acer budget, they probably need advice on responsibly managing their money more than they need co
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you will likely wish you'd purchased something with 16 GB / 512 GB soon enough to really annoy you.
My mother saves every video and photo she receives. Apple's belief that only "power users" need lots of space is a bit off the mark. Oh right, they want to sell their monthly cloud subscription. Almost forgot about that.
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> When I researched it last, 8GB/256GB was about what Windows laptops offered at this price point.
True. That is true. But typically, (there are always exceptions) the memory in Windows laptops is SO-DIMM in sockets accessible through a hatch in the back, the drive is either m.2 or ssd (or sometimes both) also removable, and the laptop comes apart.
As opposed to the memory soldered in and the two halves of the laptop body glued together.
The last time I bought a Windows laptop, it was offered with the CPU
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8 GB of "unified memory", sharing that pool with cpu, gpu and whatever they're calling "neural net" these days. Almost certainly soldered in, not expandable.
I have an older laptop (Zen 3) with 2C2T and 8GB of unified memory and it is fine for all common tasks.
All this for about $150-$200 more than a comparably outfitted Windows laptop.
The only thing wrong with my low end laptop is the build quality. In fact the keyboard died in like month 3 and then it took me 2 months to get the machine back with it replaced.
people tend to buy Macs for creation, and this one seems to be outfitted primarily for consumption, which is not Apple's audience.
People tend to buy Macs for simplicity and ease of use. The idea that most people them buy them for content creation is simply nonsense. No doubt that segment is a larger percentage of the user base, but still minuscule.
Pincer Movement (Score:2)
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The case material IS part of the specs: they are portable devices and so these things take matter.
With that said, I personally think such cases are overrated. I like think pads.
A lot of nerds say they don't care about colour or fashion bit they do. No one's going round with a hot pink laptop while wearing sack cloth. Almost everyone cares at least a bit.
Anyhow not for me. I don't like computers with an expiry date, and I don't like apple's operating system very much so I'll stick in PC land. Running Linux o
What you do? (Score:2)
Try to out-China China?
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The move to China already happened back when Apple was still called Apple Computers.
Well not really (Score:2)
I mean for the Windows world the bigger "shock" probably is the declining quality of Windows. Apple hasn't exactly been in the "premium" segment for decades, for example in the 1990s when the "Desktop Publishing" revolution arrived the main claim was that a Macintosh was much cheaper than "something proper".
Now that Laptop from Apple isn't even particularly cheap. It's stripped and locked down almost to the point of a Chromebook. It still cost more than a regular refurbished laptop with better specs.
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I mean for the Windows world the bigger "shock" probably is the declining quality of Windows.
For some of us in the Windows world, the declining quality of Windows was not a shock. Remember every other Windows has been terrible. Maybe MS will made Windows 12 not as terrible as Windows 11. I doubt it though.
Windows' Dominance Has Never Been More Vulnerable (Score:3)
And in addition to that, the alternative options have never been better. It's never been easier to buy a device with Linux, such as the SteamDeck, or install a Linux distro customized for great gaming performance and ease-of-use. If you're not a gamer, these new Mac Neos provide a cheap gateway for casual Windows users to wander over to the macOS platform. And all the while Microsoft seems completely uninterested in improving their position against these threats. And even if they did care to change things, they haven't recently shown that they're capable of offering any products or features that will generate excitement for Windows.
Just to be clear, I'm not saying that Windows is dead - just that it has a serious disease and I don't see any urgency on Microsoft's part to take it seriously.
It is tempting. (Score:2)
So many posts missing the differentiations (Score:3)
What this has that other products don’t at this price point:
1. Solid build quality that feels good in the hands. This is very important to a lot of consumers, who spend a lot of time using their devices
2. A really decent screen. 75% more pixels than 1080p, 500 nits of brightness, and reviewers commenting that it looks way better than competing products at this price. Again, something consumers value hugely, after all they’re staring at it
3. Integration with consumers’ other Apple devices. In particular, apps like Calendar, Notes, Messages. It’s just substantially more convenient than the alternative approaches
4. Coiour and other elements of Apple pizzazz. Vanishingly few people on this site give a shit about funky colours, but students will
5. Financing. 0% means you can spread the cost without worrying too much, and that counts hugely.
Maybe I’m wrong, and someone else is offering a nicely built metal device with a great screen that looks funky and providing 0% financing. But I don’t think I’m wrong, and that still doesn’t do the integration with iOS apps that consumers are using all the time.
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2. A really decent screen. 75% more pixels than 1080p
This really isn't a selling point for me. Nothing good comes from pushing more pixels on underpowered hardware. 1080p screens have a purpose. Now maybe Apple's silicon is better than the competitors (I certainly hope so, my work laptop goes to shit at home simply because I plug a 4k monitor into it rather than the 1080p ones we have in the office), but in any case I wouldn't celebrate a spec that requires power on a device marketed to have little of it.
What this really offers that no one else does, is MacOS
"'content consumption' device, similar to an iPad" (Score:2)
If that's the best excuse he can come up with, the PC laptop industry is fucking cooked. No it's fucking not a "content consumption" device -- most people use their laptops to use Chrome and MS Office or the free equivalent (which, incidentally the Macbook Neo comes with ... no PC laptop comes with MS Office anymore). They use laptops to do schoolwork, to send e-mails, to do their taxes, to shop online, all the stuff normal people have done with a computer for the last several decades.
The hint that it's not
Where I see this device being very useful (Score:4, Informative)
International travel. You can get one of these, put a limited set of files you need on it, travel with it, and if it gets damaged, lost, or analyzed by customs, then it's no big deal. When you get home, you can wipe it and then it's ready for the next trip.
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The Neo does have one USB 3 USB-C port and the upgraded 512 GB SSD model has a touch ID sensor, but everything else that you stated is correct.
I think that the non upgradable 8 GB of memory is the deal breaker here for most people thinking of switching from a PC. It ensures that this thing will be obsolete 3 or 4 years from now when Apple releases a new Mac OS version that "recommends" at least 12 GB of memory.
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It ensures that this thing will be obsolete 3 or 4 years from now when Apple releases a new Mac OS version that "recommends" at least 12 GB of memory.
One complication is whether the current version 26 (Tahoe) will be the last OS that supports Intel processors as Apple would like to stop supporting that architecture sooner.
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The Neo has an ARM processor. That won't be a problem for it.
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Re: Apple Chromebook (Score:3)
From what I gathered, the last Mac released with an Intel CPU was in 2020 and it was discontinued in 2021.
You can find refurbished Intel models here and there, but Intel CPUs are long gone from the official Apple lineup. I hope they will keep the emulation layer for a little longer since it runs x86 containers nicely, but even containers are getting more ARM supports thanks totaling the push by the cloud providers: ARM virtual machines are cheaper and generally faster than the Intel/AMD options nowadays. If
macOS 15 Sequoia suppoorted and getting updates (Score:2)
From what I gathered, the last Mac released with an Intel CPU was in 2020 and it was discontinued in 2021.
Discontinued does not mean unsupported. 2017/18 Intel Macs are stuck at macOS 15 Sequoia, but Sequoia is still supported and receiving updates.
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If one has an Intel based Mac, then one can install any of the myriad x86 based operating systems that exist for it - Windows, Linux, BSD or even fringe OSs such as OS/2, KolibriOS, Minix,.... So even after Apple's support ends, there are still things people can do w/ those "macs" if they are still in good working condition
In contrast to that, once people's M-series macs, or iPads lose their support, users will be SOL. Yeah, they could try one of the Linux or BSD ports developed specifically for it, but
Re: Apple Chromebook (Score:3)
Iâ(TM)m missing something: whatâ(TM)s Intel got to do with it? This has an Arm CPU.
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Intel is over. I accept this, but I don't want it becuause my 2019 MBP has a lot of life in it. Apple will support this new device for six years after they stop selling it, or at least that's a reasonable expectation of that.
I have a MBP I bought early 2008. Intel Core 2 Duo (two CPU threads) and 6GB RAM. It's still good for a lot of things. I don't think people on this site are particularly representative of Apple's target market with this new device and thus can't appreciate that 8GB will probably be
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8GB is plenty of RAM for what most users use their laptops for, if the OS doesn't gobble it up with background tasks. Probably be a good idea to steer clear of Chrome as a browser on these things.
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That's really not true, because most users keep a large number of tabs open in their browser.
8GB is plenty for people who close tabs and keep bookmarks, but we're in the minority.
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8GB is plenty of RAM for what most users use their laptops for, if the OS doesn't gobble it up with background tasks. Probably be a good idea to steer clear of Chrome as a browser on these things.
I usually make it a point not to change browsers for any OS that I am using. So on Windows, I use Edge, on Android/ChromeOS, I use Chrome and on macOS/iOS, I use Safari. If I'm using something else like FreeBSD, then I download and use Brave
Also, I'm plugged in whenever possible, and only work on battery if I'm taking the device out, like to a store or something
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Re: Apple Chromebook (Score:2)
Macmini got bumped up to 16 Gig as minimum from 8 Gig, but is this really running macOS or padOS?
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It's actually more like an iPhone 16 Pro runing MacOS in a laptop form factor. Apple basically rummaged through their parts box and pulled out a mobile CPU that'll deliver 50% more single core performance than what's in a high-end Chromebook with only 80% of the power draw. And Apple's got *massive* economies of scale on those parts, so they can afford to deliver a lot of bang for the buck.
The only place the Neo appears to falls short is in RAM, but this is *not* a power user machine, it's for basic off
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The way I see it, it's a glorified Chromebook at an inflated price. You kinda get what you're paying for here. It's not like it goes head to head with the rest of the Mac laptop line. No expandability, USB 2 only, no touch ID, slow charging, It really is a cheap notebook.
The reason to shit on Chromebooks have nothing to do with the hardware which makes your comparison rather silly. You can do a world more with old hardware running a real OS than fast hardware running a glorified web interface. The Chromebook comparison is quite ignorant.
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The way I see it, it's a glorified Chromebook at an inflated price. You kinda get what you're paying for here. It's not like it goes head to head with the rest of the Mac laptop line. No expandability, USB 2 only, no touch ID, slow charging, It really is a cheap notebook.
Chromebook? Chromebooks come w/ very little storage: the expectation is that all of the user data is on Google's cloud. While Apple does do that for iOS and iPadOS, one can save files on the Macbook Neo just like one can on PCs. Oh, and it has 2 USB ports, so one can connect the USB 3 port to an SSD to externally back up data if one wishes, w/o having to use iCloud
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Yeah, many schools like the Chomebooks but are sick of Google's shit on other fronts. I'm not confident they'll prefer Apple's MDM but these decisions are based on pain, not dispassionate logic.
Meanwhile OLPC turned out to lobotomize students so the whole thing should be thrown overboard. Buy paper and pencils with the money.
Re:8GB ram will just eat swap and ware it out and (Score:4, Interesting)
8GB ram will just eat swap and ware it out and you can't upgrade the storage as well.
My coming up to 4 years old 8GB Macbook Pro M2 hasn't. For daily stuff like media consumption, web browsing, document editing, light photo and video editing which is the bulk of what non-tech users do it's absolutely fine.
What's the towing capacity of this Prius? (Score:4, Insightful)
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Dunno, it seems more of an aye-pad without (as I understand it) the touchscreen. I don't understand what is it for at all.
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The huge difference is macOS. Chromebooks don't even run a real OS and application software.
Re:Not as much as Chromebook (Score:5, Insightful)
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Jesus- buy him that Neo, now.
Or, better, splurge and get him a damn Air.
I was a kid too, and I remember making shit work on terrible hardware ill-suited for what I was trying to do. You're his decently well-off uncle. Get him a real computer.
That poor MacBook of his is swapping 100% of the time.
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I remember making shit work on terrible hardware ill-suited for what I was trying to do.
But it's not terrible. I have a 2018 Intel and a 2020 M1. They are surprisingly capable today. Yes, of course I notice a speed difference compared to a 2024 M4. For learning Xcode and coding small games, those old Macs are well suited. That M1 8GB was purchased used as a lower end test machine, but I've used it from the couch a bit and it is absolutely surprisingly capable.
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But I don't like "unified memory" when it comes to actual real-world performance.
Not really sure what you mean by that.
A UMA is merely the GPU and CPU sharing RAM. As long as your RAM bandwidth is sufficient, then they're no cost to doing that, only benefits.
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Re: Not as much as Chromebook (Score:2)
It is the Apple equivalent of a netbook. But at a time where a web-oriented device is actually what consumers want.
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This isn't as much of a shock as the Chromebook, which brought accessible, inexpensive, low maintenance, and easy to use laptops to everyone.
No, the real shock to customers has been how Wintel laptop prices have inflated. A few years ago, I bought this laptop I'm typing on from Costco for $250. I checked Costco's app today, and looks like the cheapest Wintel laptop one can get is $500
PC vendors have no one to blame but themselves if they have hiked prices to the point that even Apple can compete w/ them