Should Keycaps Use Text or Glyphs for Delete, Return, Tab, Caps Lock, and Shift? (macrumors.com) 76
"The new MacBook Air and MacBook Pro models feature a keyboard change," reports MacRumors:
On the U.S. English version of the new MacBook Air and MacBook Pro keyboards, the tab, caps lock, shift, return, and delete keycaps now have glyphs on them. On previous-generation models, these keys are labeled with text instead... Given the U.S. English keyboard layout is the default option for MacBook Air, MacBook Pro, and MacBook Neo models sold in Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and Singapore, this change effectively extends to those countries and a few others.
"Apple already uses glyph-based key labels on several European keyboard layouts," notes The Mac Observer, "including British English versions of the MacBook. Because of this, the design will feel familiar to many users outside the United States."
The change was noticed last week by Chicago-based X.com/YouTube user "Mr. Macintosh", who makes how-to videos about now and old Macs.
"Apple already uses glyph-based key labels on several European keyboard layouts," notes The Mac Observer, "including British English versions of the MacBook. Because of this, the design will feel familiar to many users outside the United States."
The change was noticed last week by Chicago-based X.com/YouTube user "Mr. Macintosh", who makes how-to videos about now and old Macs.
Glyphs are for kids. (Score:5, Funny)
It is an Apple product, so the correct answer is: whatever is prettier.
Re: Glyphs are for kids. (Score:3)
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It's in ipad where the entire screen is a key
I've never seen a keyboard where you could drag across the surface of a key, or press on different parts of the key to invoke different actions at different times. If such a thing existed, I think it would be very expensive and also not very useful. So, a touchscreen is not a key.
Glyphs are for low cost (Score:1)
Re: Glyphs are for low cost (Score:2)
If Apple was serious about simplifying manufacturing and lowering costs on that end they would have used an existing 13" laptop chassis for the Neo, instead of designing one just the model and making a bunch of color options. Not like a case designed to handle the cooling solution on a higher performance M-series Macbook couldn't work with the A-series iPhone chip.
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If Apple was serious about simplifying manufacturing and lowering costs on that end they would have used an existing 13" laptop chassis for the Neo,
No necessarily. Various articles have pointed out the current case/installations is simpler.
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It is rumored that the Neo design is simply a precursor to EU rules on things like battery changes. Apple might be experimenting with the Neo to
Re: Glyphs are for low cost (Score:2)
The printing on the keyboard is minor. The UK and US English keyboards are physically different:: e.g. just look at the enter key, which are orientated completely differently.
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The printing on the keyboard is minor.
It's not the printing. It's the manufacture, handling, and installation of different parts.
The UK and US English keyboards are physically different
Those are not the only two keyboard. Other keyboard will only different by symbology.
Re: Glyphs are for low cost (Score:2)
This is a very valid point.
I don't think it honestly matters too much as Apple for years had keyboards that didn't match the images for shortcut keys in the menus. Probably some dumb logic like only the old school Mac users would be able to translate. The control key is actually this symbol is actually that symbol blah blah.
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It's a $600 product, those keys are one less thing to localize. Simplifies manufacturing and lowers costs.
That would only reduce costs if it allowed them to ship a single standardized keyboard silkscreen worldwide. As soon as they need to support both QWERTY and AZERTY designs, for example, they're back to having to create separate variants again and any potential cost savings are lost.
I think this more just Apple being Apple -- too many graphic designers chasing not enough remaining graphic design problems, to the point where they start "solving" things that didn't actually need to be solved. Now every new
Who cares? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)
Who cares? Question, go back in your head to 1982 and ask yourself how well you understood the function of those keys? The answer to who cares is everyone who isn't an old grumpy neckbeard who has spent their life with computers and for some reason thinks newer generations don't actually exist or that people at some point in their life will see keyboards for the first time.
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Who cares? Question, go back in your head to 1982 and ask yourself how well you understood the function of those keys?
What, you mean like within that single hour on the first day of typing class?
If Gen Beta sits at a keyboard and struggles for more than 10 minutes to grasp the concept of Shift and Enter, then the other 99+ keys are going to cause a mental breakdown.
Hell, they have a Delete key. I can’t imagine them being forced to use White-Out in front of the whole Insta-class and admit they’re human.
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What, you mean like within that single hour on the first day of typing class?
What's a class? 99.9% of users never went to any class. Are you suggesting we specifically make computers counter-intuitive enough to force people to have to attend a class to understand how to type on them?
Invoking typing classes has to be one of the dumbest ways you could have possibly missed my point.
Re: Who cares? (Score:2)
AI will take care of that pesky new generation. There's no need to tinker anymore and stay off my lawn!
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I haven't looked at my key caps since 1982.
I just looked at mine. The symbols have all worn off.
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https://drop.com/buy/drop-the-lord-of-the-rings-elven-keyboard?mode=shop_open/ [drop.com]
Symbols are fine (Score:2)
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Re: Symbols are fine (Score:2)
Every manufacturer puts on their own symbols and relocates the keys, so when you want to find a certain key you can waste several tries and face several near fatal document disasters before finding the right button.
Re: Text or glyphs? (Score:2)
Laptops keys should be labeled in ENGLISH (Score:5, Funny)
Just like God and Abraham Lincoln intended.
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Just like God and Abraham Lincoln intended.
Here I am, envisioning John Moses Browning hammering this response out of Hunter S. Thompsons Model FU typewriter at a full-auto rate of 800WPM..
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I'm torn. Clearly Glyphs instead of English keywords are WOKE because they mean you don't have to understand English to understand them and clearly therefore conspiracy against the only language that matters, American. On the other, Abraham Lincoln is also WOKE. Also I am a nutcase.
What should I think? Has Trump weighed in on this yet?
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Because I buy my laptops in Japan, I've switched to Japanese keyboards for everything. The key caps are a bit crowded because they have the usual Latin characters and keyboard symbols, plus one or two Japanese characters. They have some additional keys next to the spacebar for typing in Japanese too, which are useful for English because you can use them as modifier keys with a custom keymap. I can type things like a degree symbol, plus/minus, arrows, Greek characters, and so on.
Keycaps should be replaceable (Score:2)
And if not, you should be able to replace the whole keyboard for moderate cost and effort. Then everybody can get what they prefer.
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Ideally the key switches should also be replaceable so you can get your preferred feel. I'm glad to see that trend in USB keyboards.
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I did several replacements by hand (soldering iron) to get that. Totally worth is, but obviously socketed switches that anybody can replace are even better.
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My current keyboard has soldered switches as well. I went with the blue switches and they really do feel a lot like my old keyboards did. That'll be good enough, I have a decent solder station.
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And used glyphs. And words.
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Most mechanical keyboards have replaceable caps. They start at about 50 USD and by investing 100 you already get a quite good one.
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Better idea - every country/language could come up w/ its own keyboard, w/ an USB connection that can be plugged into any computer. That computer's system language can be set to that language, and then one would have a computer that's completely native to that place. The computer makers needn't do anything, but locally, that country can manufacture keyboards for its own scripts - be it Mandarin, Japanese, Tagalog, Thai.... and those keyboards could be computer independent, working w/ any computer that has
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In cubicle land, almost everyone at my workplace has a wireless mouse/keyboard 'plugged' into their company-issued laptop. Except when in meeting rooms, no one types on the internal keyboard.
If they gave us the option of an iPad Pro or equivalent Windows 11 device, I'd be down with it.
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All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?
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Most keyboards have replaceable keycaps, either Alps standard (Boooo!) or God's own Cherry crosses. This has been the case for most laptop keyboards I've seen since the late 1980s/early 1990s.
With laptops, alas, the issue is more complicated, because companies like Apple are constantly innovating and developing new ways to make keyboards crappier so they reach their eventual goal where a laptop is as thin as a sheet of paper, and about as powerful. This makes it harder to make keys that can plug into some s
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I agree. There are perverted incentives at work and they make the product objectively worse.
Will anyone notice? (Score:2)
I couldn't have told you which mine had without looking.
Glyphs are (generally) universal. (Score:5, Informative)
Besides snarky commentary about falling literacy rates, I think the old keyboard with the written labels looks classier.
Glyphs are language-agnostic, but they ate a language of their own people have to learn. I'm sure all of us have dealt with a person who doesn't recognize the combined Play/Pause icon, know what a pencil button represents, or know what a menu of three vertical dots is for, because they are not a frequent user of devices or apps that have them.
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Fuck it, I don't even know half of the hieroglyphs kids use these days instead of words.
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OK, fine, for the glyphs we actually understand. Enter, Home, Volume Up/Down, these glyphs we get. But what's the glyph for Ctrl or Alt or Shift or Scroll Lock? And what the heck does Scroll Lock do anyway?
Glyphs only go so far.
IMHO (Score:3)
This conundrum is the poster child of First World problems.
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There's the old story of a newb typing in all caps, someone replies telling him to press caps lock, and the newb says, THANK YOU, NOW I DON'T HAVE TO KEEP HOLDING SHIFT!
But what am I do do when... (Score:2)
asked to hit 'any key'????? Oh the horror!
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Saw this cartoon on a library wall in the 1990's http://english-zone.com/member... [english-zone.com]
Another debate for Humanity? (Score:2)
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They were right about white space.
Keys (Score:2)
Having a 'Glyph' for Return/Enter and Shift is fine, but I am not sure about CTRL and ALT
And the CAPS LOCK key should have a light on it ,
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Either on it or nearby that obviously indicates that its on, although older typewriters had a good idea... Caps Lock was just a soft key like the rest that tilted and locked the bars in Caps... you had to use your brain to hit it, and even brushing the Caps Lock key would disengage it.
Too much frIvolousness.. (Score:2)
Why not make the keys have a mini-LCD display (Score:2)
That way the user can decide what's displayed plus they don't wear down.
Kill ambiguity (Score:2)
Just look at the menus. (Score:3)
The glyphs match the symbols in the menus for various commands. It's easier for customers to find the "up arrow" key when the shift key has an up arrow on it.
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Is easier always the better choice?
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Otoh, it's easier for someone doing telephone technical support to tell someone what letters to look for on the key than to try to describe the glyph.
wg
\o/ (Score:1)
E-ink displays for configurability.
A better question... (Score:2)
...is why can't Apple make a full keyboard, or even just a wider keyboard, instead of jamming a small keyboard into a much wider case? M2 Max MBP user here, the world key is really hard to reach so had to remap caps lock to it. It feels like keyboards are not big enough if you have slightly longer fingers. Certainly prefer Keychron type MX keys for a lot of reasons too. As for TFA, I prefer words, though the first syllable or two is okay too. A lot of people don't understand the control, option, command and
False choice (Score:3)
You can have both text and icons like on most keyboards. Icons-only on keyboards, devices, on-screen, etc is a usability cop-out, often done to ease internationalization or save space.
I've very rarely ever seen an icon that's clear and obvious to all, not matter how obvious its designer and focus group (i.e. designer's friends) think it is. And there's the issue that there are a lot of confusingly-similar icons floating around.
Yes, people learn, but what about all the new people coming into your device, app, etc? Their brains are already pretty full... like with other people's icons which may look the same but do something different. "Lemme see... what does this square with lines sticking out of it do?" (Turns out it that it turns on a light... circle with lines coming out of it activates the self-destruct feature!)
ain't broke (Score:2)
If it ain't broke...
We can have it all (Score:2)
Those who want words, can by keyboards with the functions spelled out. Yes, they exist. And those who want glyphs, can find those too. Keyboards are cheap, everybody can have whatever kind they want. Who's to say one is better? For me, the better one is the one *I* want.