Sodium-Ion Battery Tested for Grid-Scale Storage in Wisconsin (electrek.co) 135
"A new type of battery storage is about to be deployed on the Midwestern grid for the first time," reports Electrek:
Sodium-ion battery storage manufacturer Peak Energy and global energy company RWE Americas will pilot a passively cooled sodium-ion battery system in eastern Wisconsin on the Midcontinent Independent System Operator network — the first sodium-ion deployment on that grid. Peak Energy says its technology is specifically designed for grid-scale storage and leverages sodium-ion chemistry's inherent stability. Unlike many lithium-ion systems, sodium-ion batteries don't require active cooling and can operate over a wide temperature range without losing performance.
That simpler design could make a meaningful dent in the cost of storing electricity. According to Peak Energy, its system cuts the lifetime cost of stored energy by an average of $70 per kilowatt-hour. That's roughly half the total cost of a typical battery system today. The company says it achieves those savings by removing energy-hungry cooling systems, eliminating routine maintenance requirements, and reducing the need to overbuild storage capacity to account for battery degradation over time...
If the Wisconsin pilot proves successful, it could open the door to wider adoption of sodium-ion batteries for large-scale energy storage across the US.
That simpler design could make a meaningful dent in the cost of storing electricity. According to Peak Energy, its system cuts the lifetime cost of stored energy by an average of $70 per kilowatt-hour. That's roughly half the total cost of a typical battery system today. The company says it achieves those savings by removing energy-hungry cooling systems, eliminating routine maintenance requirements, and reducing the need to overbuild storage capacity to account for battery degradation over time...
If the Wisconsin pilot proves successful, it could open the door to wider adoption of sodium-ion batteries for large-scale energy storage across the US.
YouTuber technology connections (Score:5, Insightful)
It's bizarre to think that we have basically solved every single shortage problem the human race has except we can't do it because we're too busy fighting to see who can give Elon Musk musk and Jeff bezos the most money.
Re:YouTuber technology connections (Score:5, Informative)
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Actually no, it's RWE AG. That's it. They haven't used the name you just gave them in 35 years. RWE is a multinational energy company headquartered in Germany. That's it. It's shorter to write, and you don't need to worry about Slashdot eating your unicode.
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"...if we were a sane civilization..."
A "sane civilization" would not exploit greed to drive economies. Sanity is relative, humans are flawed, capitalism is worshipped.
Don't forget, Elon Musk says that empathy is the greatest weakness of "the West". No "sane civilization" would accept this, but here it barely makes the daily news.
"It's bizarre to think ..."
It's not. It's the only reality any of us have ever experienced. The difference is that now it happens more to white people. Capitalism gets worse i
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The too long didn't watch is if we were a sane civilization that wasn't run by oil companies and religious lunatics we would be rapidly transitioning to wind and solar as our primary form of energy with just a tiny bit of nuclear in places like Japan where they just isn't enough land.
In your dreams. For personal uses, running a refrigerator, heating water, possibly even charging a car, wind and solar are sufficient. For industrial uses, we are orders of magnitude away from being able to generate that much power with wind and solar.
Wind and solar absolutely should be pursued; however, they are insufficient alone for the world's energy needs.
Re:YouTuber technology connections (Score:4, Insightful)
Which part of what he said do you disagree with? You haven't addressed the subject at all. You've wandered off topic because you're triggered and are arguing that he has problems? womp womp
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One could legitimately wonder
One could, if one were not a coward, and therefore a zero.
-
Re:YouTuber technology connections (Score:4, Informative)
Except the post did not "question silvergun", it merely hurled insults. Just like yours.
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Sometimes people need to be told to get help
The call is coming from inside your head, where rsilvergun lives rent-free.
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Yes, just keep making non-sequitur personal attacks and don't answer the legitimate question.
Congratulations on being noise.
Re:YouTuber technology connections (Score:4, Informative)
A story about energy storage is immediately adjacent to renewables. It bears directly upon it because it's what makes them viable as a sole source.
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A story about energy storage is immediately adjacent to renewables. It bears directly upon it because it's what makes them viable as a sole source.
Only two renewables need storage to be viable as a sole source: solar and wind, because they aren't available 24/7. Hydro, geothermal, biomass, and (maybe) tidal energy do not depend on storage.
rsilvergun (again, whom I respect) didn't mention storage in his post, although he did highlight solar and wind. I'm not fond of Ol Olsoc's flaming, but I think he has a point regarding rsilvergun's drama in this post. IMHO, rsilvergun is the one who has gone off-topic. But I do like his posts in general.
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Only two renewables need storage to be viable as a sole source: solar and wind, because they aren't available 24/7. Hydro, geothermal, biomass, and (maybe) tidal energy do not depend on storage.
Hydro can benefit from it providing for peaks but more importantly is frequently a bad idea. Damming areas specifically for hydro power is a folly, there are opportunities to benefit from it outside of this but those can be seasonal and generally not dependable. Tidal is predictable but variable. Geothermal covers a broad range of technologies, some of which are undependable and/or problematic and most of the rest of which are low yield.
Battery storage is a good partner to most kinds of power generation. It
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Yes, because every story about grid-scale energy storage lives in a vacuum bottle that is never brought up as a complimentary infrastructure build-out to compensate for variable-production renewables, is it?
If we were just running energy generation that was always-on reliable, we wouldn't need grid-scale storage, would we? Which might be why we never had any developments for grid-scale storage until the last 10 years or so?
Please try to keep up.
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There are other reasons to have energy-storage besides supporting diurnal or sporadic sources such as solar and wind. See my response below to Dragonslicer.
TL/DR: storage can be used as a buffer to handle momentary demands that exceed a system's current output, even if that system isn't powered by renewable sources. And all sources produce excess from time to time, so why not store it when you can?
And I'm confused about the "keep up" snark. I think you're better than that.
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Excess energy stored in batteries could come from any source, not just solar or wind. The difference is that solar and wind need storage in order to be viable as a 24/7 source of energy.
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What other sources? Like I said, any other sources. They can (and must) all produce excess.
The load on a generating station goes up and down, as people turn their lights on and off. At any moment, a station will be producing excess in order to handle unexpected spikes in demand. The unused excess at any moment can be directed to storage.
Sure, you can anticipate daily demand-patterns and adjust what stations are online appropriately. But even with such planning, you'll still have -- in fact you'll need -- ex
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Because the so called "base load" power stations cannot follow load. This is why electricity is cheaper during the night.
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shattered soul? tell us how many drama classes you took in high school you big baby
Re:YouTuber technology connections (Score:5, Informative)
So someone shouldn't comment about the insanity of our energy policy making on an article about alternative methods of mass grid-level electricity storage.
Why? Because it hurts your fee-fees to see billionaires be criticized? Are you one of these people who, despite the overwhelming evidence since... well the dot-com era... is just unable to see billionaires as anyone other than your "better" who must be "better" because they got richer than you despite the fact you didn't because of bad luck and a possible lack of being a greedy psychopath?
You think Musk is a genius? I used to think he might be smart until he started talking about topics I happen to know quite well. Most of Slashdot is full of people who realized he was an idiot roundabout the time he bought Twitter and started talking about firing people based upon printouts of code done the previous week and bullshit about microservices.
Perhaps mate it's time you got therapy.
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So someone shouldn't comment about the insanity of our energy policy making on an article about alternative methods of mass grid-level electricity storage.
Why? Because it hurts your fee-fees to see billionaires be criticized? Are you one of these people who, despite the overwhelming evidence since... well the dot-com era... is just unable to see billionaires as anyone other than your "better" who must be "better" because they got richer than you despite the fact you didn't because of bad luck and a possible lack of being a greedy psychopath?
You think Musk is a genius? I used to think he might be smart until he started talking about topics I happen to know quite well. Most of Slashdot is full of people who realized he was an idiot roundabout the time he bought Twitter and started talking about firing people based upon printouts of code done the previous week and bullshit about microservices.
Perhaps mate it's time you got therapy.
Sorry, mon amie, but you and your friends here, who ironically claim I am trying to put billionaires above criticism, then go through some argument you are making with me in your head, next somehow make me a fan of Elmo, who seems to live in your head rent free - damn homie - listen to yourself! You make shit up for me to say, then say I need therapy?
Now if you can drop the rageboner for just a second, my actual thoughts on Musk, renewables, and battery technology is as follows.
For what it is worth,
Re:YouTuber technology connections (Score:5, Informative)
As an aside, did you mean to post that logged in? The rsilvergun trolls usually post AC. Want to tell us anything? Are you the idiot who keeps spamming Slashdot with unfunny attempts to parody rsilvergun?
Whoever is doing this is obsessed enough to genuinely require psychiatric treatment. It's tiresome, dumb, and honestly, the impression I get is that whoever is doing it is enraged by his views and angry he can't actually challenge them. If that's you, maybe you do, genuinely, need therapy.
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"Doommongering"? He's talking about what they *do* with the battery storage, and you, inhaling the fumes from your rolling coal oversized pickup (but have no stocks or job in the petrochemical industry), attack him for... talking about reasons?
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"Doommongering"? He's talking about what they *do* with the battery storage, and you, inhaling the fumes from your rolling coal oversized pickup (but have no stocks or job in the petrochemical industry), attack him for... talking about reasons?
He most very specifically said he did not watch a video he claimed was good, Is that talking about what they do? Then he called our civilization insane, and then said our apparent goal was giving Musk and Bezos more money.
Highly technical stuff, homie. Seems like you fellows need to make up stuff in your head about me to fit some stereotyped meme to attack.
No, I don't own a Pickup, diesel or otherwise, but I've been thinking about a Rivian if Jeep doesn't come up with a EV soon. You rsilvergun sock pu
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talking about wind and solar when the story's about grid storage technology is a fuck of a lot more on topic than your weirdo obsessive rage boner over this guy
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Mod parent up. rsilvergun is chronically off-topic and interferes with discussion of topics at hand.
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Mod parent up. rsilvergun is chronically off-topic and interferes with discussion of topics at hand.
I think his sock puppets intend to keep me at -1 troll.
A degree of irony there, don't you think?
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Have you sought therapy?
Dude, look who you're replying to. Obviously, the answer is "no." Honestly, if I were a therapist, I wouldn't feel safe in the same room.
Well played sir - well played indeed! 8^)
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^100% agree^ Don't worry... soon, this'll turn into a "blame it all on the administration" fest on here. rsilvergun and the AC who posts links to rsilver's posts over and over are the same person, and rsilver has their own little cheer squad/fanboi team.
In the early days of teh intertoobz, we had a name for those people. "Kooks". People with axes to grind. People who would turn every story into their favorite axe.
Some had some severe psychosexual issues. Who can forget Crisco Cathy and the West Virginia criminal report Doxxers or the "With the punce gotcha" guy on USENET?
While I'll make no claims as to this group's psychosexual inclinations - if they have any - They do like to turn every article into their well ground axe.
I will make claims that the
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So you thought through all of that, but couldn't extend the thought to "they don't need to charge every battery in the place, all at once, all in the same hour."
They can spend a month or two bringing it online. Sheesh.
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So you thought through all of that, but couldn't extend the thought to "they don't need to charge every battery in the place, all at once, all in the same hour."
They can spend a month or two bringing it online. Sheesh.
I'm having trouble grokking how you think this won't work.
Electric service demand îs not steady. There are times of day when demand is high, and times when it is very low. Obviously straight solar won't work to charge at night, but they are now emplacing batteries locally at the panel level
We see this demand service implemented in a number of ways. Electrical generators offer discounts for off peak hours. Some providers that use hydraulic storage pump water into reservoirs they use to service pe
factoid (Score:2, Insightful)
To store the full daily output of a 1 GW power station using battery technology priced at $70 per kWh, the total cost would be $1.68 billion.
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To store the full daily output of a 1 GW power station using battery technology priced at $70 per kWh, the total cost would be $1.68 billion.
Read again:
"According to Peak Energy, its system cuts the lifetime cost of stored energy by an average of $70 per kilowatt-hour."
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cuts the lifetime cost of stored energy by an average of $70 per kilowatt-hour. That's roughly half the total cost of a typical battery system today
Do you want me to explain how I worked it out?
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I have to admit, I had to double check the article myself. Didn't realize it was a BOGO pricing deal.
I think that the critical part is that while still too expensive for grid storage that extensive for the power company, I average around 40 kWh/day. $2,800 for a Power Wall type system capable of powering my house for a day? That isn't a bad price at all.
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OK, but expect the sodium-ion system to take, at a guess, half-again more space. It'll also be heavier, but that doesn't really matter for a fixed installation.
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It's an immature technology. Expect it to be less compact.
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Read again:
"According to Peak Energy, its system cuts the lifetime cost of stored energy by an average of $70 per kilowatt-hour."
As written the text is misleading noise yet from other sources the actual cost of the battery alone is likely around the same level. There is still no cost advantage over LFP and still nothing on the horizon that will enabling scaling sufficient to fundamentally change the equation.
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Re:factoid (Score:5, Insightful)
Now take the lifetime cost of some various power plants which produce that 1 GW and compare them to a solar plant which makes 2 GW (up to about $2.4B) and add that battery for $1.68B and compare to for example nuclear with $10B+ per GW construction costs (estimates up to around $25B) and yes, it only makes sense to do renewables plus batteries in the vast majority of situations.
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Do you have any citations on why you think you'd need 5-6 days worth of storage with Wind/Solar?
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No, I just thought a snow storm can easily last 5 days
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Then you use generation from elsewhere, further east or west, north or south.
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If you check news stories around Xmas week for both 2021 and 2023, the province of Alberta, a noted polity for disparaging wind and solar, had dunkelflautes exceeding 100 hours. Solar, rather obviously for when there's only 8 hours of sunlight, and that only 17 degrees above the horizon, and it was cloudy, was at 5%. Wind was at 10%. If they'd had a 300% overbuild of solar and 200% overbuild of wind, they'd still have needed 6GW of battery for over 100 hours to supply 12.5 GW to the grid. (Oh, yeah
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Well, it's anecdotal, but the last time I had an ice storm, my power was out for 4 days. And yes, I live in a city; not out in the middle of BFE where one line that gets hit by a tree can knock out several square miles of rural subscribers.
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And if your power is down because of a broken power line and it taking the power company that long to fix it, the power company having 5 days of storage isn't going to help.
If I think I'm going to have a 5 day outage with 40kWh (1 day's average use), I can conserve quite a bit by doing things like turning HVAC and the water heater off. Grilling outside on propane rather than cooking inside. Heck, I even have a couple camping stoves I can use.
I like stainless steel and cast iron, so it isn't like my cookwa
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Well, the precious LLM-AI data center has to run at night, so you've gotta coast through the night and the cloudy, windless days.
Will those solar panels survive 60+MPH winds?
Ours do.
Golf-ball or bigger hail?
A lot better than you think https://solartechonline.com/bl... [solartechonline.com]
Can you get parts for the wind turbine two-ten years down the road.
Short answer - yes. I take it you believe that only wind power needs replacement parts? How much is refurbing or replacing a nuclear plant turbine rotor?
You might think your "questions" are insightful, and impossible to solve, making these solar and wind power setups unworkable. Meanwhile, we're getting wind power electricity here in PA along the Allegheny front, 24/7/365, and solar is increasing by a lot. We've lost none.
Side not
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Short answer - yes. I take it you believe that only wind power needs replacement parts? How much is refurbing or replacing a nuclear plant turbine rotor?
Well, in one documented case - the Trojan Nuclear Generating Station - fixing the cracked piping in the steam generator was going to be more expensive than just shutting the thing down early and decommissioning it after 17 years of operation on a 50 year license.
It's now a helipad, a dry-cask storage warehouse for nuclear waste, and a frisbee golf course.
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Short answer - yes. I take it you believe that only wind power needs replacement parts? How much is refurbing or replacing a nuclear plant turbine rotor?
Well, in one documented case - the Trojan Nuclear Generating Station - fixing the cracked piping in the steam generator was going to be more expensive than just shutting the thing down early and decommissioning it after 17 years of operation on a 50 year license.
It's now a helipad, a dry-cask storage warehouse for nuclear waste, and a frisbee golf course.
I'm not surprised about that. The requirements for steam generator pipe are tough enough in general, and even moreso in a high radiation environment. Although I see that this case the failures were in the "safe zone".
And that just adds fuel to my idea that humans aren't actually capable of building safe nuclear power systems. Too much stuff to go wrong, and in this case, they essentially made a disposable power station. But bean counters and managers call the shots, so on-time and cheap trumps the "good
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I know, those pesky proprietary parts are just laying around by the thousands, no problem getting them from a company that closed its doors. Coincidentally, that's what happened to the wind turbine the local VA installed... like a year or two after (installation), a bearing failed... apparently, it was a non-standard thing, the company folded up, and not a single outfit (who was cleared for that kind of work) would touch it (it was proprietary), and the other outfits wouldn't service someone else's shit... it sat, not running for like 5 years until they demolished the thing (wish I would've seen that).
"Properly selected panels" from one outfit... are all other outfit's panels the same rating and cost? Are we going to walk (hand-in-hand, 'cause we're best buds!) through a field of pallet racks filled with "hail-proof" panels and test the panels we pick at random with the MythBusters 'chicken cannon' and cans of beans? Sounds like a fun day!
The owners of these data centers aren't gonna be buying the best... they're gonna be buying the cheapest, so, figure for that... same for the wind turbines... all that for "green" energy to make them look good at the next board meeting.
I see- well it is good to know that nuclear plant and gas fired power sources will always have parts available for everything forever, until proton decay happens. 8^/
Your point is awkward, You use one point to declare an entire industry worthless. Machine Shed Fred pointed out the Nuclear plan in Oregon that was decommissioned after only halfway through its licensing period. And if they recommission the TMI reactor two, do you think that all its parts are still available?
I don't know about your parti
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Solar or wind plus gas backup is clearly better than battery backup! I'm surprised, so maybe I made a mistake in the sums there.
No, it isn't. All generation has ramp-up times, battery is instant, and that saves a lot of money in ancillary costs. Waiting for a gas-plant to spin up to handle a load-spike costs money plus wear and tear, and it may well be that when it is finally producing power it isn't needed anymore. Stable energy production saves a lot of money, and even more so when there's grid energy storage like batteries available, and such storage usually pay for themselves in less than 10 years if correctly sized.
Re:factoid (Score:5, Informative)
"No battery needed" only because the grid has more nimble sources of power.
Solar, wind, nuclear are non-dispatchable - that is, they cannot meet demand for electricity. If you turn on a light, and the sun or wind isn't blowing, the lightbulb won't turn on. But if you turn OFF a light, the nuclear plant might meltdown.
Now, that's being dramatic, but that's the truth - a nuclear plant takes hours to increase or decrease its output. The duck curve is needed so nuclear plants can plan their power generation around it.
For a stable grid, this means you need to curtail generation of solar and wind - that is, they need to produce more power than demanded. For nuclear, the opposite is true - you need to make sure it never generates close to what is needed - it must always run under demand.
It is impossible to run a grid on nuclear energy alone. Typically, this isn't a problem because hydroelectric, natural gas, and to a limited extent coal plants are dispatchable sources of power - they can ramp up and down within minutes. When demand peaks, they can be brought online and within 5-10 minutes be making up demand.
You want to run a nuclear plant, you need batteries as well to both supply and make up for the mismatch in demand.
If the nuclear plant is producing too much energy, then the battery can soak up the excess in the time it takes to ramp production down. If the nuclear plant isn't producing enough energy the battery can provide the deficit until it ramps up.
Nuclear isn't magic - it's a slow lumbering beast we operate very conservatively because at no point can it produce too much power without something to absorb it. Battery technology is getting good enough this can be an option. So a nuclear plant plus battery will likely be required.
Re: factoid (Score:2)
Why would you even consider nuclear when solar+wind+electrolysis+hydrogen gas plant is cheaper?
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Because "cheaper" isn't the only metric one uses to decide which type of power plant to build.
The #1 problem in all these discussions is that most people pick one single attribute, then say "Power plant type X is the best because it is the SELECT_ONE_OF( greenest | quickest to build | best ramp rate | cheapest to run | supplies the most power | safest)"
Nuclear plants can load-follow (Score:3)
Cold-start takes forever, but once running, nuclear plants can load follow, adjusting output by several percent per minute. Generally they don't only for economic reasons: it makes more sense to throttle back everything else instead. However, if you run out of other things to shut down, nuke plants can load-follow just fine. France does this all the time.
Batteries are still useful in a bunch of ways, but you don't need nearly as many for a mostly-nuke grid as an mostly-renewables grid.
But if you turn OFF a light, the nuclear plant might meltdown.
They do not. If th
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Couldn't you just build some massive Silicon Carbide rods and heat the air for load shedding for much less money than the cost of batteries?
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Nuclear about $10 billion to build, varies wildly between countries but $10 billion in a sane country. No back up battery needed.
Nuclear needs really large ways to store electricity. As a nuclear plant can not be shut down easily when less power is required, it needs a way to get rid of the additional energy. Usually, it's stored into large pumped-storage hydroelectricity plants, and you need to include their cost too.
On a side note, people are always waving the baseload flag, without every asking themselves what baseload actually means: It's a source of energy which (except when shut down for maintenance or an unforeseen event) al
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Nuclear needs really large ways to store electricity. As a nuclear plant can not be shut down easily when less power is required, it needs a way to get rid of the additional energy. Usually, it's stored into large pumped-storage hydroelectricity plants, and you need to include their cost too.
Demand can be accurately forecasted well enough in advance. Sinking excess associated with overshoot is cheap.
On a side note, people are always waving the baseload flag, without every asking themselves what baseload actually means: It's a source of energy which (except when shut down for maintenance or an unforeseen event) always provides the same amount of electricity - completely independent of the actual needs. That means that baseload energy can not react on short term price signals, and that means, that for a large part of its running time, it's not running economically, and more so, it has to be kept running even when cheaper sources of energy are available,
The part of the equation being overlooked is nuclear is dispatachable while renewables are not. The economics for renewables simply don't scale. There is no ESS technology at present that can absorb the required energy at an economically feasible price. This ultimately results in overbuilding renewables until the market is saturated. This ends up with not only no cost advantage but costs to ope
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This is exactly the effect renewables are having on the market. The value of "I can provide 1000 units when I feel like it" vs "I can provide 1000 units when you need them" is not being properly priced.
Renewables, especially Solar and Wind, are so cheap, you can simply switch them off when not needed. That's quite different to a nuclear power plant.
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This is exactly the effect renewables are having on the market. The value of "I can provide 1000 units when I feel like it" vs "I can provide 1000 units when you need them" is not being properly priced.
Renewables, especially Solar and Wind, are so cheap, you can simply switch them off when not needed. That's quite different to a nuclear power plant.
The ability to curtail or sink energy isn't the salient issue. The problem is an aggregate loss of ROI due to persistent oversupply of synchronized "when I feel like it" in the market. When the market saturates ROI declines preventing further capital investments in additional wind and solar. Therefore wind and solar are inherently self limiting and won't translate into reduced costs required for any significant decarbonization.
There needs to be a breakthrough in ESS that sees cost reductions of at least
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Nukes can be shut down no problem. It's starting them back up again that can be an issue. A reasonably modern design can be throttled quite a bit though.
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Your gas plant isn't going to be much good without gas to run it. The Internet tells me that a gas plant costs between $1 billion and $2 billion to build plus half billion a year to operate, most in fuel costs, which presumably can also go up quite a bit higher if you don't have a handy source of gas around. The PV farm would have some operating costs as well, but no fuel, and probably quite a bit less maintenance since there are no moving parts or plumbing. The price
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Of course, the energy to charge the battery isn't free either. But these numbers are getting to be in the same ballpark like never before.
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>> To store the full daily output
Obviously that isn't the objective. This is;
"installing 10 GWh of battery storage capacity in the MISO region over the next decade could cut system costs by as much as $27 billion compared with a scenario without that storage"
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In the real world, they actually keep burning to level out the operating costs of tradition power it doesn't ramp up or down quickly well so they handle dips by CUTTING hydro power output - the cheap reliable baseload and they use the grid network. A battery can green the grid and lower costs WITHOUT wind or solar. It's a buffering problem! With a flux in prices, it becomes like a less random stock market of buying and selling power. You'd think some free market people would be promoting creating a bi
Cheaper Batteries == Game over (Score:5, Insightful)
Even Trump can't stop this.
Re:Cheaper Batteries == Game over (Score:5, Interesting)
Trump doesn't need to stop it, the wind stops all by itself. Posting once again the graph I look at every day...
https://transmission.bpa.gov/b... [bpa.gov]
The green line is mostly wind, installed capacity is 2800 MW. The green line also includes 138 MW of solar. Yesterday was cloudy so it didn't help much.
One other thing I'll note is that Wisconsin will definitely test the temperature tolerance of the battery. 90 F in the summer (more if it's in town) and -20 in the winter (less if it's in the country).
Re:Cheaper Batteries == Game over (Score:4, Informative)
Trump doesn't need to stop it, the wind stops all by itself.
His Truth Social account is evidence to the contrary.
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Truth Social is a refuge for uneducated MAGA where they can't even tell the difference between the truth and an outright lie.
Re:Cheaper Batteries == Game over (Score:4, Informative)
Trump doesn't need to stop it, the wind stops all by itself.
What do you think the batteries are for?!
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also check the https://app.electricitymaps.co... [electricitymaps.com] and compare it with other countries to see that the US are actually late to renewable energy, while getting better (https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/US/all/monthly and compare with China or Australia to see how quickly they are adding renewable)
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You are looking at local conditions. You need to look wider, and at places where the wind never, ever stops.
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Nobody except a few tropical islands and arctic territories burn oil for electricity. That got too expensive a long time ago. Coal has also been uncompetitive except for special circumstances for a while. Now it looks like gas might be getting up there too.
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Trump can't even stop himself from shitting his pants, let alone an actual trend in what people look for and want to use.
Nice, but... (Score:2)
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Just add a calcium channel blocker and a beta-blocking circuit and that should mitigate the hypertension.
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Just add a calcium channel blocker
For MOS
and a beta-blocking circuit
for BJT
Match demand to supply - political problem (Score:3)
I once worked on a pilot project to have people pay closer to the spot price and to give them the ability to automatically shift some demand. At the end of the month people were given the old billing price and the new spot price method and only had to pay the lesser of the two. The median savings for people who took advantage of the new pricing was $50/month (people in Oklahoma have huge air conditioners and no home insulation). The monthly savings to OG&E were non trivial per customer and they would have saved 2.2B by not needing to build peaker plants.
The politics of how Electric utilities are funded meant this wasn't viable. OG&E's profits are guaranteed to be 12% of whatever capital they have built. The 2.2B in peaker plants were already approved and would have increased OG&E's profit by 260M a year. Investors would have borrowed at 3.75% (US prime rate in 2016) and gotten a 12% return. Expanding the pilot from 100,000 homes to all of Oklahoma, if successful would have meant not having to build the peaker plants. The Oklahoma regulator would not budge giving OG&E any reason to go with the cost saving approach so the project was scrapped and the peaker plants built.
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All those dollars will be paid for by higher rates aka money out of consumer pockets. They had already voted for the politicians and the current regulatory structure, so they had already gotten their say in the matter. A better tech came along, halfway through the process, but these sorts of huge infrastructure projects build up a momentum of th
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Re: Match demand to supply - political problem (Score:2)
Overselling but still impressive (Score:2)
Peak energy is claiming round trip efficiency of 95% which is excellent for NFPP.
$70/kWh is a good price although LFP is currently "roughly" the same cost not anywhere near "roughly half". Unless you need the wider temperature range this still isn't offering an advantage over LFP and voltage curves are terrible compared to LFP.
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Unless you need the wider temperature range
Wider temperature range is a killer feature. It simplifies everything, so the plant costs far less and needs much less attention.
Back of envelope says batteriesnuclear ? (Score:2)
I posted this in a substack forum recently, using very back-of-envelope arithmetic using half-remembered price mentions. I was surprised to see nobody dunk on the estimate. If this is for reals, I think my trollish ending of "so nuclear's toast" might be true?
The money issue is the one where I'd have to tell a Big Investor, that a good $10/watt should be budgeted as the CAPEX for a new nuclear station that will provide 7x24 power (85% of the time, they need scheduled downtime).
For $10/watt, instead of a
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Not to mention that Ontario's plan is project to cost $20B / GW before the inevitable cost overruns.
Is it practical for house-scale storage? (Score:2)
Because it would be nice to have a whole-house UPS that doesn't degrade like lithium ion, or pose a fire risk.
Yes, I'm aware of LFP, but more options is always better.
Tesla was on the right track (Score:2)
Why didn't NaS catch on? (Score:2)
aka sodium-sulfur?
it was used successfully in a couple big projects in Japan decades ago but i've not heard it mentioned in a very long time
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https://techxplore.com/news/20... [techxplore.com]
Might find some of the info you want in there.
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At least on places where solar is already a things, we already produce more energy during the day that we need to, so storage is a good thing. Same about wind, sometimes you have little, other you have much
See Portugal graphic:
https://app.electricitymaps.co... [electricitymaps.com]
Most of the energy in the last few days was renewable and getting more from Spain solar... and we are just starting to get sunny days
Most of the Spain energy imported is to be used as hydro storage, so Portugal sells later on end of day when the requir
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Look at the electricity prices in Portugal over time. Often they are negative.
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yes, that is the ideal situation for energy storage, that is why Portugal buys cheap Spain excess solar to power their storage... and them sell back to Spain when it needs the most and the prices are higher.
South Australia is the same, but they have much less interconnect with close locations
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Bringing more generation online doesn't help with grid management, smoothing out power delivery during demand lulls/spikes, etc. Especially not if all your generation shuts down at night.