GrapheneOS Refuses to Comply with Age-Verification Laws (tomshardware.com) 69
An anonymous reader shared this report from Tom's Hardware:
GrapheneOS, the privacy-focused Android fork, said in a post on X on Friday that it will not comply with emerging laws requiring operating systems to collect user age data at setup. "GrapheneOS will remain usable by anyone around the world without requiring personal information, identification or an account," the project stated. "If GrapheneOS devices can't be sold in a region due to their regulations, so be it."
The statement came after Brazil's Digital ECA (Law 15.211) took effect on March 17, imposing fines of up to R$50 million (roughly $9.5 million) per violation on operating system providers that fail to implement age verification...
Motorola and GrapheneOS announced a long-term partnership at MWC on March 2, to bring to bring the hardened OS to future Motorola hardware, ending GrapheneOS's long-standing exclusivity to Google Pixel devices. A GrapheneOS-powered Motorola phone is expected in 2027. If Motorola sells devices with GrapheneOS pre-installed, those devices would need to comply with local regulations in every market where they ship, or Motorola may need to restrict sales geographically.
Or, "People can buy the devices without GrapheneOS and install it themselves in any region where that's an issue," according to a post on the GrapheneOS BlueSky account. "Motorola devices with GrapheneOS preinstalled is something we want but it doesn't have to happen right away and doesn't need to happen everywhere for the partnership to be highly successful. Pixels are sold in 33 countries which doesn't include many countries outside North America and Europe."
Tom's Hardware also notes that GrapheneOS "isn't the first and won't be the last company to outright refuse compliance with incoming age verification laws."
"The developers of open-source calculator firmware DB48X issued a legal notice recently, stating that their software 'does not, cannot and will not implement age verification,' while MidnightBSD updated its license to ban users in Brazil."
The statement came after Brazil's Digital ECA (Law 15.211) took effect on March 17, imposing fines of up to R$50 million (roughly $9.5 million) per violation on operating system providers that fail to implement age verification...
Motorola and GrapheneOS announced a long-term partnership at MWC on March 2, to bring to bring the hardened OS to future Motorola hardware, ending GrapheneOS's long-standing exclusivity to Google Pixel devices. A GrapheneOS-powered Motorola phone is expected in 2027. If Motorola sells devices with GrapheneOS pre-installed, those devices would need to comply with local regulations in every market where they ship, or Motorola may need to restrict sales geographically.
Or, "People can buy the devices without GrapheneOS and install it themselves in any region where that's an issue," according to a post on the GrapheneOS BlueSky account. "Motorola devices with GrapheneOS preinstalled is something we want but it doesn't have to happen right away and doesn't need to happen everywhere for the partnership to be highly successful. Pixels are sold in 33 countries which doesn't include many countries outside North America and Europe."
Tom's Hardware also notes that GrapheneOS "isn't the first and won't be the last company to outright refuse compliance with incoming age verification laws."
"The developers of open-source calculator firmware DB48X issued a legal notice recently, stating that their software 'does not, cannot and will not implement age verification,' while MidnightBSD updated its license to ban users in Brazil."
Why ban Brazil? (Score:2)
Re: Why ban Brazil? (Score:5, Informative)
They, GrapheneOS, didn't 'ban Brazil' they took a stand against a law in Brazil that has the effect of Brazil itself banning GrapheneOS.
GrapheneOS will happily sell their product anywhere it's legal, they simply choose not to comply with laws they find objectionable, which limits their market.
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It's to cover their asses if someone is found using it in Brazil (after presumably getting a device with the OS from elsewhere / from a 3rd party) and they get fined.
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No company can violate the laws of a country in which they want to operate. It's Brazil that passed this law, and since GrapheneOS has no intention of abiding by it, they do need to let their Brazilian users know that the latter would be violating Brazilian law if they used them, and that Graphene wouldn't be held responsible. That's the least they need to do
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WTF Laws (Score:5, Insightful)
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.... RIGHT?
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This entire post is sarcasm, right?
I've got some bad news for you.
Americas IQ was hijacked by retarded liberalism and girl math.
Whether this "lovely" AC is one of them or not, this mentality absolutely exists within a far too large segment of the population. Bitching about the younger generation is a right of passage those of us barreling through middle-age, but that nonsense is just a bitter old conservative yelling at clouds. Best to just ignore them.
Re:WTF ideologies. (Score:4, Funny)
It's fun to watch the barely educated try to reason things out.
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Because there are people around that aren't red pilled idiots, can you please define:
"retarded liberalism"
"girl math"
You culture warriors are so god damn stupid.
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"Because they know they will never win an election without the ignorant uneducated uninformed voter.
This post is incredibly stupid.
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Americas IQ was hijacked by retarded liberalism and girl math
That's interesting, because all the incredibly stupid shit I'm seeing happen today is all due to "conservative" "governance" coming from "conservative" electeds that are doing mental gymnastics if not outright hypocrisy to bandwagon Trump's bullshit, that in no way can be described as "conservative"
The next time I see Republicans stand up and tell Trump to go fuck himself on something en masse, I might listen to what you have to say about liberalism "hijacking" America's IQ. Right now, it's 271 rubber stam
Re: WTF Laws (Score:1)
I didn't vote for an authoritarian nanny state.
Are you Brazilian? Because, apparently the majority of Brazilian voters did just that, and since this law only applies to Brazil...
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Re:WTF Laws (Score:5, Funny)
"make essentially zero sense"
"Pain in the ass."
"Just insane."
We know about the politicians but what were you saying about the laws? ;)
Re: WTF Laws (Score:1)
It's an age requirement, it has nothing to do with Epstein - everything you don't like can't be blamed on "the Epstein class."
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It's an age requirement, it has nothing to do with Epstein - everything you don't like can't be blamed on "the Epstein class."
It's an age requirement which makes Web privacy virtually impossible; therefore it has EVERYTHING to do with the Epstein class and their desire to control, and potentially exterminate, us plebeians.
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Hey, blame Meta/facebook! https://www.yahoo.com/news/art... [yahoo.com]
They are the ones pushing this, so they can track the age of each user... but sold as a way to protect kids
Just like Bush sold all the the tracking and invasive scans and listenings in the name of fight against terrorism
People accept stupid things if there is a danger implied that will be solved by that... this was exactly the same argument Nazi used to slowly strip Jews from rigths until they had none left
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Absolutely. It's thought that Meta is behind these laws in California and Colorado, since they have been under pressure to verify the ages of their users. Instead of trying to push this on to OS users, they should have pushed back at government busybodies who're imposing this in the first place. It's up to parents to prevent their kids from using social media until a certain age. From the POV of social media platforms, they have no business knowing anything about their users. I should be able to create
How does Brazil plan on fining linux distros? (Score:5, Insightful)
Especially the ones created by teams scattered around the world and have zero commercial or legal presence in Brazil?
More stupid laws made by technologically pig ignorant politicians.
Re:How does Brazil plan on fining linux distros? (Score:5, Funny)
technologically pig ignorant politicians
Much redundancy in these words, there is.
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How are they gonna fine someone for something that is free?
Re:How does Brazil plan on fining linux distros? (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm Brazilian. The law has an article that allows regulatory bodies to define something as not being affected by the law if that's in the public interest, so it's likely the government will use that to classify everything they have no means to actually police as being fine. Which means this law can be actively enabled or disable to affect anyone the government wants affected, meaning mostly companies with deep pockets who can be fined for lack of compliance. Going after those without any money would be a waste of time for enforcers.
Also, Brazil has something first world countries lack: a population used to disregarding laws we dislike. People here have already developed plenty of workarounds for age verification in websites, and once it starts popping up on phones and PCs, will do the same. Since most already use a pirated Windows, they'll simply have that pirated Windows come without age verification.
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Interesting post, thanks.
But if i may, if you think us "first world" countries lack people who skirt the law, you idealise us. :D
And i am not sure i want to call Brazil some sort of third world country. :D
Re:How does Brazil plan on fining linux distros? (Score:4, Interesting)
if you think us "first world" countries lack people who skirt the law, you idealise us. :D
No, that's not it. It's a cultural difference. In first world countries skirting the law is something people do exceptionally. In countries such as mine, it's a way of life and survival, everyone skirting the laws because the laws aren't really meant to be followed in full, they're mean to be tool the government uses when it deems useful. If someone were to try, they'd be crippled to such an extent they'd be barely able to do anything, at all.
First world countries are so, in great part, because most laws are sane, mean to be followed by everyone, and most everyone does so. Although, granted, there's nowadays a level of "third-world-ization" going on there, what with more and more laws being approved that are similar to our more than they are to your old laws. I hope this process may stop and reverse at some point, but if not, well, once your legal system is fully corrupted, we'll be able to provide you with plenty of suggestions, tips, and tricks, on how to evade unjust laws, as we have literal centuries of experience doing so.
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While it's one thing for Brazilian citizens to decide to disregard whatever laws they don't like, it's another thing for non-Brazilian companies whose products/services are being used by Brazilians to pretend that those laws don't exist. They can't, and shouldn't. What they can do is state that their product/service is not meant for use in Brazil, and then, if Brazilians figure out a way to get them and use them anyway, that's b/w the Brazilian people and their government
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Certainly. But then, those non-Brazilian companies can mock-comply. Then Brazilians will continue using them all the same, in standard Brazilian fashion, with companies and people pretending to obey the law, the government pretending to enforce it, and everyone knowing everyone else is pretending but having no way to prove it.
Case in point, those external companies seem to be using Cloudflare's georestriction rules, which is fine with us, as everyone is quickly learning to use VPNs.
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They apparently think they are Ofcom, and that their laws apply all over the world. When in fact, the most they can do is impound the computers of citizens who use systems that refuse to do age verification
Good (Score:2)
Re: Good (Score:4, Interesting)
Tom's Hardware also notes that GrapheneOS "isn't the first and won't be the last company to outright refuse compliance with incoming age verification laws."
The article goes on to say the GrapheneOS folks understand this position may cost them sales, "so be it."
Exactly the right response. Imagine if Windows or macOS took a similar position, what would these countries do? Seriously, while it may impact software/system sales in the very beginning, it will hurt the gov't and all other users of the systems as they are suddenly found in violation of these age restriction laws.
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Imagine if Windows or macOS took a similar position, what would these countries do?
In first world countries it would result in the role back of the law. If Microsoft was to block the sale of Windows in California and PC makers block sales of their PC in California too, it would drive home the point real quick.
However Microsoft and PC makers would never do that as they couldn't care less about the rights of consumers and would not want to loose a single sale by taking the moral high ground.
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This so called "privacy OS" still only works on phones made by Google
If you don't even read the summary, why should anyone care about your opinion?
Re: pointless (Score:1)
As a reminder:
Motorola and GrapheneOS announced a long-term partnership at MWC on March 2, to bring to bring the hardened OS to future Motorola hardware, ending GrapheneOS's long-standing exclusivity to Google Pixel devices. A GrapheneOS-powered Motorola phone is expected in 2027.
Re: pointless (Score:2)
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All seven Pine Phone users are thrilled!
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valid concern, but there's a reason it only works on the pixel. it indeed may be backdoored but the same is true about any other device, or even more so, and security is essentially a cat&mouse game and a series of tradeoffs.
about funding google ... also a valid concern but overstated. still if you have to favor any company at all then google in all its evil is the one which has contributed more by a very large stretch. promoting a handful more pixel sales in a niche market has a far smaller impact than
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there's a reason it only works on the pixel
Yes, nobody paid them to bring it to any other devices and the devs used Pixels, and now Pixel devices are non-viable due to Google changes so they are having to change their mind about device support because otherwise they don't have a project.
Some of the security features required hardware that was almost exclusively found on Pixel devices, and the Pixel drivers were in the AOSP tree. Google removed them so it was no longer easy to support Pixel devices, while Motorola made a deal with them to provide th
Re: pointless (Score:1)
https://a.zli.li/ [a.zli.li]
Re: pointless (Score:2)
Sure I'm going to follow a link from a troll right away
Re: pointless (Score:1)
Yeah, it's probably for the best that you remain in the septic tank.
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I just want to understand the "point" you are trying to make here.
For clarity, you are saying that it's a waste of time to create an alternate OS image for Pixel phones with better privacy than the stock image that Google ships on the phone, with all of their telemetry hooks and phone-home behaviors; because Google's image has all those telemetry hooks and phone-home behaviors in their OS?
Do you understand how monumentally stupid you sound? This project is the answer to your fucking concern.
and in some remote cavern, with batteries about to (Score:2)
In some remote cavern, the OS spits out these error messages, after the age was mistyped
Why are you not with husband yet?
pointless posturing (Score:1)
Does anyone seriously think the powers that be care about toy operating systems with a handful of hobbyist users?
All that matters is that Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS, and probably some of the bigger more professional Linux distros are all going to comply and that's enough to catch 99% of the population.
Re: pointless posturing (Score:1)
How many Brazilian computer users are running Windows 11, compared to running earlier editions no longer sold (Win10 and earlier?)
I wonder if the law is only on products offered for sale after March 17, or if it applies to any operating system in use after March 17 - the latter would be very, very difficult to enforce.
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Does anyone seriously think the powers that be care about toy operating systems with a handful of hobbyist users?
All that matters is that Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS, and probably some of the bigger more professional Linux distros are all going to comply and that's enough to catch 99% of the population.
OTOH, maybe the remaining 1% are more likely to cause grief for the powermongers. Also, that 1% keeps the possibility of non-compliance alive, allowing for the possibility of the 99% to decrease and the 1% to increase.
Or.... (Score:2)
Or, Motorola can just provide a different launcher that does the age verification. Which would be absolutely trivial for them to do.
Talk about a manufactured clickbait article.
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Why appease stupidity? Saying "no" isn't clickbait, unless you define clickbait as being enraged that someone finally provides a rational response to this.
Re: Or.... (Score:1)
I believe the law is applied to the OS, not the product as a whole - the OS needs to supply user age info it collects from the user to the applications running on it, and GrapheneOS is refusing to provide that response.
The requirement is not just the collection of age info, it is also the ability of the OS to provide that captured age info on demand by any running application - at least that's how I understand this situation.
It's all about removing online anonymity (Score:3)
THEY want 100% attribution of all online content. It starts with the little chips at the ice of anonymity. First it's the age, then the location, then full digital ID plus biometric verification.
Re: It's all about removing online anonymity (Score:2)
You can always turn off your personal tracking device, AKA your cellphone. Choosing to carry your phone while it is powered on is a choice.
Shut Down Commieforninia (Score:1)
They got a lot of RTOS devices out there in the wild...running things.
Would be a shame if all those illegal operating systems were turned off by vendors by legal force.
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That may be a fun time. I am all for it!
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This makes me want to support them (Score:2)
Tech nerds may be a minority, but this absolutely feels like a defining moment when a group of people takes a principled stand against the utter stupidity and ignorance lawmakers everywhere insist on supporting.
Wherever they are on the planet, here's hoping it inspires others to join the resistance.
age verification (Score:2)
Let's have some fun! (Score:2)