The California Government Is Coming For Your E-Bikes (sfstandard.com) 150
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the San Francisco Standard: If state lawmakers have their way, you'll have to get a license plate for your e-bike, and if you're planning to buy one next year, it'll be slower. Amid growing concerns about e-bike safety, particularly among children in Bay Area suburbs, two bills introduced this year aim to make it easier to ticket riders and reduce the top speed of some models. AB 1942 would require certain e-bikes to be registered with the Department of Motor Vehicles and display license plates, and AB 1557 would slow e-bikes that children are allowed to operate. Both bills are still being reviewed in committee. If either bill passes this year, it will take effect Jan. 1.
I do not see the problem here (Score:5, Interesting)
Is this a "My freedumbs!!!" thing?
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This is solving the wrong problem because it is easier.
-Similar to the drunk looking for his car keys under the streetlight when he dropped them over by the car, because the light is better over here.
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Yes. People who always wanted to ride their motorcycle on the sidewalk found a loophole: install an electric motor and call it an e-bike.
We've got a similar law here. The limit is 32 km/h and 120 kg, which is faster than all but a few people can pedal a bike and more than enough to hurt someone in a collision. It's certainly faster than you want "kids in a park" going. If you want to go faster or heavier that's fine, but you're a motor vehicle and need a license and insurance.
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The context of that phrase is almost always used for people who invite regulation with their own foolish/dangerous behavior.
Re:I do not see the problem here (Score:4, Insightful)
We're in a sad place when freedoms are considered something "dumb".
Freedoms aren't considered dumb. Citing freedom as a reason to rally against perfectly reasonable common sense legislation is dumb. If you want freedoms go live by yourself on a deserted island. If you want to live in a society we enact rules that restrict freedoms for the good of the many because *not* doing so would be dumb.
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The E-bikes without the hassle of registering, etc were fun for kids and even grownups to scoot around, but if you're going to be treated like a motorcycle, you might as well get a real one and realize the benefits of having a real bike.
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Ebiikes are a legal workaround loophole for motorcycles.
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It's more complicated. I don't think anyone will disagree with your opinion for your assumed use. But there are other uses.
Your argument appears to be that e-bikes need to remain unlicensed for their appeal to be preserved. I think that's largely right but it calls into question why there are class 2 and class 3 e-bikes at all. I have been saying this for years, the California solution is garbage. e-bikes need to be functionally equivalent to bikes and need to be treated like bikes. We have scooters an
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Strange, narry a single one of my many, MANY firearms have spontaneously gotten up a shot up a school....or harmed ANY human being or animal around me to date.
I keep them all loaded and chambered, especially the ones I carry concealed when out and about....
Hmm...you might just consider the problem is not the tool...but, and follow me on this.....but the human abusing or misusing said t
Rebecca Watson covered this on YouTube (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Rebecca Watson covered this on YouTube (Score:2)
Then go after the manufacturers.
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You can't go after the manufacturers because 1) they're outside of your jurisdiction, 2) their products are likely legal in half of the world (e.g. Asia/Africa). The problem occurs because foreign sellers register these products on platforms e.g. Amazon or Temu, and accept to ship to countries where they are not legal. What you can do is regulate Amazon so they are liable for their products. Of course it's also very difficult politically.
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If they sell a product in your state, they're under the state's jurisdiction. It's why states can ban products or require safety features from manufacturers who sell in those states.
2) their products are likely legal in half of the world (e.g. Asia/Africa).
So? You think car manufacturers don't have different models for different parts of the world?
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If they sell a product in your state, they're under the state's jurisdiction.
The case I am referring to is that arbitrary resellers, for example Chinese residents, put products on Amazon/Temu, to ship to your country. The manufacturers are have no control over that.
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But the online reseller can be fined for selling an illegal product in your state.
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The online reseller is also located abroad. When you buy stuff on Amazon, the seller can be in China. You're the only one in a Western country, with Jeff Bezos.
Re: Rebecca Watson covered this on YouTube (Score:2)
The foreign reseller can understand how to follow rules. AliExpress collects taxes for different states in our country and also won't ship some things here.
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The issues is, obviously, the minority of resellers unwilling to abide by rules. Even if you complain, and AliExpress removes the account, another is created next day. It's a whack-a-mole problem.
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They arent selling the product, most likely, a reseller or importer is.
With zero presence in country, they use a 3rd party for shipping, it is basically impossible to go after them.
Think like a small time comic artist selling art getting a commission and mailing it to the country of the buyer, only to find out that the art was 'illegal'.
Thus the go after amazon thing, because they are the enabling party inside the USA.
Another issue is jailbreaking the bikes.
A bike that can do the legal limits with a 200 pou
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The manufacturers aren't the problem. They aren't the ones who make the rules about how their product is used on public thoroughfares.
Re: Rebecca Watson covered this on YouTube (Score:4, Insightful)
That is harder than it sounds. Such bikes can be made from kits, so no manufacturers, and complete bikes can be sold for off-road use. It's behavior that's a problem, and some of that behavior is from children.
The fact is, an e-bike is defined by its similarity in function to a bike. As long as they are sufficiently similar, the problems are just bike problems. When the vehicles are really motorcycles, then the problem is different. None of the proposed laws seem to appreciate any of this. rsilvergun is right, motorcycles masquerading as bikes is a big problem, but there are enough other problems to motivate activists and politicians. Won't anyone think of the kids.
Curiously, the lower speed limit is especially terrible. The justification in the article is that it is easy for manufacturers because it's the standard in EU already. That's true, but easily the most common complaint in the EU regarding e-bikes is the stupid top speed that is targeted at dense populations with heavy bicycle use, a use case that CA does not have and a solution that will not solve any problem. This doesn't help child safety, it just makes things worse.
What's really concerning to me is that e-bike groups that are active in CA think their shit doesn't stink, that they have the answers for everyone everywhere, yet the class system in CA sucks. I have said this for years and here is evidence of it, yet that class system has been propagated throughout the nation. I am a long time e-bike rider, a few years ago my bike was made illegal by changes to my state's laws to make them the same as CA. Our older laws were better because they were written to anticipate needs rather than implement an agenda. I have only this year updated the bike to be compliant, only because I needed to change other things. CA's ignorance and stupidity regarding e-bikes will get propagated because their activists love the smell of their own farts. Establishing a lower speed limit is an atrocity, road cyclists routinely average greater speeds than 16 mph.
Parents don't make e-bikes from kits for their children and manufacturers don't want to offer death traps to kids. Solve that problem. Ban hand throttles for e-bikes and require proportional assist. Then set maximum bike weights to a low number to limit power, speed and kinetic energy. License class 3 or a sane equivalent. All these things actually address concerns. what is proposed is performative.
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That's true, but easily the most common complaint in the EU regarding e-bikes is the stupid top speed that is targeted at dense populations with heavy bicycle use,
In the EU, standard e-bikes are regulated to a top speed of 25 km/h. We already see an increase in bicycle accidents due to cyclists being unable to handle 25 km/h safely. This applies to kids who don't know their limits, and older people who have been cycling without assistance all their lives and are now getting an ebike for the first time, and are driving faster than their reaction speed warrants.
I have a faster model (similar to the Class 3 from the article) with a top speed of 45 km/h. It is regulated
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Then go after the manufacturers.
Literally impossible in the modern world. Many manufacturers of goods simply have no face or legal entity to hold to account within your legal system. The alternative is manually controlling every point of entry into a border (which worked so well for drugs didn't it?).
E.g. The Netherlands cracks down hard on this, some 17000 ebikes were intercepted at the port of Rotterdam last year alone, and yet still every other kid on the road rides an illegal moped imported from overseas.
Bonus points for when it's not
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For what? They're not breaking any laws. If you wanted to do so you'd have to pass a law first. Perhaps defining what an e-bike versus electric motorcycle is, maybe in terms of weight, top speed and/or power. Then you could require that manufacturers label them appropriately, and put a legal age limit on the latter through some sort of license and registration.
Wait....
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DJI just released an e-bike platform where the firmware lets you pick what Class of e-bike you want it to be in the menu. And that takes like 2 seconds to change. So, you're supposed to put a sticker on it labeling what class you picked, but then you also are supposed to be able to use unlimited power on private property and then go into the menu and de-tune it to ride on the road.
Re: Americans hate nuance (Score:2)
No. But if manufacturers are braking laws and knowingly manufacturing dangerous products for children they should be punished. As far as adults you can do what you want.
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If the problem is kids driving bikes they physically can't handle, the root cause is that the manufacturer is not disclosing this to the parents at time of purchase. If an industry fails to regulate itself, the government should step in.
Re: Americans hate nuance (Score:2)
Err... yes, when people are doing dangerous shit that's illegal anywhere else in the world, then criminalizing it in your country should be the go-to answer.
Why you asking?
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Actually as someone who rides ebikes and scooters exclusively, I think regulating isn't a bad idea.
I dont care for the licence plate shit. But some common sense rules would do a lot. 25km/h/ uh that'd be 15miles/hour in american moon units, is a pretty sensible top speed. If you crash at 25km/h its an ouchie, not a life altering injury. Its fast enough to be practical for folks who live in the city (I travel about 5 km from work, its a pleasant ride). Don't let kids ride them. Don't let drunks ride them. An
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Defining an electric motor bike (Score:4, Insightful)
What's needed is clarity about what the acceptable top speed / horsepower of ebikes should be before they are treated as motor bikes. The problem then is enforcement; the UK has such rules, but also a vast number of illegal e-bikes which are especially popular with food delivery couriers. What we don't want is a licencing regime for all bikes with electrical support, or, even worse, all push bikes requiring licencing.
Re:Defining an electric motor bike (Score:4, Interesting)
There are already limits. One of the problems is that you can buy a legal e-bike that is limited to the specifications, but it's actually capable of a lot more performance, and it just takes a firmware update to unlock the potential. I have no idea how they can enforce this law if they pass it.
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There are already limits. One of the problems is that you can buy a legal e-bike that is limited to the specifications, but it's actually capable of a lot more performance, and it just takes a firmware update to unlock the potential. I have no idea how they can enforce this law if they pass it.
How is THAT the problem. The specifications give manufacturers and regulators a baseline.
Just take a plain old dirt bike for example, needs a CA legal spark arresting muffler. Any meathead with a screwdriver can remove it or replace a muffler. The important thing is most trail bikes now have spark arrestors and if you fuck with it and THEN cause a fire, there's a different liability picture. You didn't just cause the problem you did it with a level of negligence.
Unless there is actually a pervasive problem
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Right now, at BEST they can stop you to tell you to slow down.. but can't "do" anything about the issue.
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All true, but we should first understand what the nature of any real problems actually are.
It is generally known why bikes are unlicensed, it needs to be appreciated that e-bikes are also unlicensed because their assumed usage is similar to that of bikes. There is no concern over "acceptable top speed" for bikes, why should there be for e-bikes? Why can't the actual problems be identified and addressed?
"What we don't want is a licencing regime for all bikes with electrical support, or, even worse, all pus
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Before people start making up their own definitions, motorised bicycles are a class of vehicle already defined in the law.
California Code, Vehicle Code - VEH 406
(a) A “motorized bicycle” or “moped” is a two-wheeled or three-wheeled device having fully operative pedals for propulsion by human power, or having no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy, and an automatic transmission and a moto
Good. Existing laws have loopholes for "e-bikes" (Score:5, Informative)
I don't want to be "angry old man yelling at clouds" BUT ebikes exist in various grey areas of the current laws. Most of the modern bikes are not electric bikes; they are electric motorcycles and they should be treated as such. Here in NJ, we've had a slew of fatal accidents involving teens because of these loopholes. Riding on sidewalks (like a bike) but going 20-30mph. Or riding in traffic alongside cars, but not following traffic laws. Or the fact that they're not wearing helmets.
If your vehicle can go a certain speed and you're riding in traffic along with cars, you're no longer a bike but a motorcycle. And that should require things like license plates, driver's licenses, insurance, etc. ALTERNATIVELY, the bikes need to operate as bikes with similar speeds, only move when pedaling, ride on the side of the road, etc.
But right now, these vehicles are essentially electric motorcycles but kids ride them anyway under the guise that they are bikes.
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At what speed does Lance Armstrong going downhill become a motorcycle?
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"Most of the modern bikes are not electric bikes; they are electric motorcycles and they should be treated as such."
Citation please.
"Riding on sidewalks (like a bike) but going 20-30mph. Or riding in traffic alongside cars, but not following traffic laws. Or the fact that they're not wearing helmets."
All routinely done on regular bikes as well. Not an e-bike problem.
"If your vehicle can go a certain speed and you're riding in traffic along with cars, you're no longer a bike but a motorcycle."
False. Depend
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BUT ebikes exist in various grey areas of the current laws.
No they don't. There are clear laws defining ebikes, the law even divides them into different classes.
Most of the modern bikes are not electric bikes; they are electric motorcycles and they should be treated as such.
No they aren't. Most modern ebikes are very much ebikes and operate like ebikes. A subset of of them are illegal electric motorbikes and do not fall under the laws currently defining ebikes. This isn't a loophole, it's just someone acquiring an illegal product.
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Often, there is no other place for cyclists to ride. Often, to get to one bike path to another, you have to ride on sidewalks. Often, sidewalks are considered bike paths.
Bicycles have enormous potential to reduce greenhouse gases, and solve many other problems - as has been proved in the Netherlands. But a certain amount of urban planning is needed.
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Big government is sucking joy out of everything (Score:2)
Outraged! Please help me sue California! (Score:3)
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If you are unable to safely operate a motor vehicle then no you can't have a motor vehicle. Is it ableist to deny a blind person?
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Re:Outraged! Please help me sue California! (Score:4, Informative)
An e-bike with proportional assist can be ridden at bicycle speeds with little effort. If a person cannot make that level of effort, that person arguably cannot operate any bicycle in public. I have grown old, I know for a fact this is bullshit.
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No you won't. Stop being a troll.
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"If you have a bad knee or hip, you can't have an ebike? "
You definitely can, but that e-bike may not solve your particular problems. That's the thing with disabilities, though, there are special considerations for them.
"I have a fibroma on my right foot, and a lung problem, and having an ebike allows me a little fun."
And how does "anti-throttle" prevent that? If you must have a hand-throttle, perhaps you should have written documentation of your need then?
"California also has a law that makes it difficul
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Firstly, anti-throttle ebike rules are abelist.
No they aren't. There's no law banning electric mopeds. But electric mopeds are not e-bikes by definition. An e-bike is a pedal assist vehicle by legal definition. If you can't use one, don't. Buy an electric moped.
Should we ban trampolines because of your right foot too?
Please put me in touch with a lawyer that deals with these kinds of cases, and I will stand in court for us.
I'm sure there's countless lawyers out there who will deal with your entitled frivolous bullshit. Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to play football. Sue me.
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Governmental overreach (Score:2)
OK I get it. In my neighborhood very young kids are tearing down the street at ungodly rates of speed, often without helmets, and I certainly don't think this is a good thing.
But laws passed by a state legislature are a very blunt weapon where finesse would be more appropriate. Specifically, you're not gonna put the horse back in the barn. Electric bikes and scooters are here to stay, kids adore them, and parents don't want their kid to be the only one on the block who doesn't have one. Software governors a
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and parents don't want their kid to be the only one on the block who doesn't have one
I mean...if it keeps them from cracking open their skull....
My eldest child was, literally, the very last in that circle of friends to get a phone. We have also managed to hold the line on social media accounts, too - my kid doesn't have them, and is about to graduate high school. Yes, there is social pressure from other families, but ultimately parents do have to be adults and declare "that's stupid / dangerous and I'm not letting my kid do it / have one."
Or, to break out the most-parent-cliche-e
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>>Also as mentioned above, enforcement would be impossible without a lot more cops.
It's even more impossible to enforce a law that doesn't exist. Besides, I don't think it's any more impossible than most laws. You don't need to catch every speeder on every road at every time of day; just enough that people slow down because they worry about getting a ticket. Likewise if a few kids have their expensive e-bikes confiscated, parents will be more careful about making sure they get the right ones and do
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E-Bikes are Mopeds Disguised as Bikes (Score:2)
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Breaking out the popcorn (Score:2)
These laws do make some sense (Score:2)
You cannot just put pedals on a Harley and call it a bicycle. There are some so-called ebikes that can go highway speeds.
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You cannot just put pedals on a Harley and call it a bicycle. There are some so-called ebikes that can go highway speeds.
Not legally. Class 3 is already capped at 28 MPH. We don't need a new law to prevent them from going highway speeds. The existing laws already do.
Summary of the proposed ordinance (Score:5, Informative)
Class 1 e-bikes: Pedal-assist up to 20 mph. (Bill 1557 reduces to 16 mph)
Class 2 e-bikes: Throttle-assisted up to 20 mph. (Bill 1557 reduces to 16 mph; Bill 1942 requires license plate
Class 3 e-bikes: Pedal-assist up to 28 mph; riders must be 16 years or older and wear helmets; (Bill 1942 requires license plate)
In order to be classified as an eBike (aka bicycle) the peak motor power cannot exceed 750 watts, except for "cargo bikes".
I use a regular bike, and hope to do so for a long time to come. But I do see older folks use eBikes, and of course the ubiquitous food delivery guys and young whipper-snappers. I am sure at some point I will also want to transition to the eBike.
The proposed laws mostly seem common sense to me, except for the requirement for a license plate on Class 2 eBikes. That seems pointless and excessive...maybe just a way to fund the program with extra $$. If bicycles are to share the same infrastructure and rules, they should be going the same speed.
As others have pointed out you can certainly get more powerful , two wheeled, electric vehicles. Just don't call them 'bikes'. They are mopeds or motorcycles or scooters. Already have rules for those, and they belong exclusively on the roadways, following normal auto regulations
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"The proposed laws mostly seem common sense to me, except for the requirement for a license plate on Class 2 eBikes. That seems pointless and excessive...maybe just a way to fund the program with extra $$. If bicycles are to share the same infrastructure and rules, they should be going the same speed."
AND be used in the same way. Class 2 has a hand throttle, the single most basic and central part of an e-bike that enables its use in a different way. Class 2 e-bikes should be banned, hand throttles should
e-bikes is blanket term that is almost meaningless (Score:3)
There are already classifications for these three types of e-bikes. If a write up wasn't designed to be inflammatory. It would have distinguished between the different classifications of e-bikes in far greater detail and not have such "California is run by jackboots" tone.
Kids are not allowed to ride around on gas powered motorcycles. How is society better off with young children and reckless teens riding around on an electric ones with equivalent torque, acceleration, and top speed? I would say anyone who thinks otherwise probably deserves to have their kids die or maimed, but I won't.
A very similar argument goes for adults and older teens. You have to register a gas powered motorcycle and be licensed to use one. Just because the propulsion isn't gas, should not make any difference.
Lastly and not addressed with this. e-bikes have no business being on mountain and forest trails where other motorbikes, and atvs are not also allowed. They are a safety hazard to themselves and others on trails designated for non-motor vehicle use.
On roads though, electric powered motorcycles are great. And with the case of class I and II e bikes, paved bike trails are the perfect place for them.
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Good post, except for kids deserving to die, which apparently you didn't say?
Like many, I see e-bike riders frequently, and I am one. However, most e-bike riding I see is hand-throttle riding where the rider never pedals. It is incredibly common. I recently removed my hand throttle, when I had it I used it for "emergencies" only. Hand throttle now makes my bike illegal in my state because my bike is "class 3".
If I had my way, the very first thing I would do is make hand throttles illegal and proportiona
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I have a lot of insight on these bills. (Score:3, Informative)
First, it's worth noting how the vehicle law defines certain things in California. Categories and definitions matter.
1. Bicycles are devices, not vehicles or motor vehicles (separate definitions).
2. A bicyclist on the road has all the same rights and responsibilities of the operator of a vehicle on the road except where the requirement cannot apply.
3. While the State has had a bicycle registration system for years, it's 100% absolute crap because it's completely decentralized. It's called the "Bicycle License", but it's a bicycle registration whose primary purpose is to affirmatively tie a bicycle to a human just like vehicle registration.
Legislative Process - Bills follow a path to becoming a law. It takes a while and there are MANY opportunities for amendments or killing the bill.
1. Proposal - House of Origin
2. Policy committee(s) - One more more committee hearing in Transportation, Housing, Judiciary, Privacy, Education, etc.
3. Appropriations - Will the bill cost the State >$100k? If so, you'll have a problem this year.
4. Floor Vote - If passed by the original house, it goes to the other house and then...
5. Policy committee(s) - One more more committee hearing in Transportation, Housing, Judiciary, Privacy, Education, etc.
6. Appropriations - Will the bill cost the State >$100k? If so, you'll have a problem this year.
7. Floor Vote - If passed by the second house, it goes to the governor.
8. Governor - Can choose to sign, not sign (which means it still passes), or VETO the bill.
The VAST majority of all bills are in Step 3 at the moment. Two of the e-bike bills are ahead of the pack and at Step 4.
Why are all of these bills hitting right now?
1. e-bikes are popular. Bicycling is a common way to reduce travel expenses and e-bikes reduce the barrier to bicycling by greatly reducing the effort required to bike.
2. The original maximum speed and power limits were likely set too high. Europe has a cap of 250W and 15.5mph. California went with 750W and 20mph with no restrictions for youth. By comparison, the average non-electric bike speed is 12mph and most people never ride faster than 15mph.
3. A lot of people have been hurting themselves and others in their reckless use of compliant e-bikes and non-compliant (electric motorcycles that look like bicycles).
Here's the legislative rundown for e-bikes this year--
AB-1557 -- Currently in Appropriations.
- Cap e-bike power at 750W PEAK (except for cargo bikes which can have 750W continuous power)
- Reduce maximum capable speed of Class 1 & 2 e-bikes from 20mph to 16mph
- e-bikes produced prior to the passage of the law would be exempt
- People 250W continuous power
- Businesses prohibited from shipping/selling/renting non-compliant e-bikes in the state and would be liable for $15K-$50K per infraction via civil suit.
AB-1569 -- Currently in Appropriations.
- Re-develop Highway Patrol online e-bike education for K-12 population
AB-1614 -- Currently on the Assembly Floor.
- Extends requirement for everyone on a bicycle to have a permanent saddle on the bicycle from just roadways to bikepaths as well.
AB-1942 -- Currently in Appropriations.
- Require class 2 class 3 electric bicycles to be registered with the DMV and to display a special license plate issued by the department.
AB-2284 - On life support. Potentially dead.
- Requires the Attorney General to compile and display an online list of non-compliant e-bikes.
AB-2346 -- Currently in Appropriations.
- Authorizes local authority to set 15 or 20mph speed limit on bike paths.
- Prohibits 15mph on bike path.
- Prima facie sidewalk speed limit of 10mph
- Mandatory integrated e-bike lights by 2029
- E-bike labels
AB-2595 -- Currently on the Assembly Floor.
Until January 1, 2031, authorize a local authority within the County of San Mateo to adopt an ordinance or resolution that would prohibit a person under 12 years of age from operating a class 1 or 2 elect
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Each week here in Santa Clara County, a pedestrians is killed by someone driving a car or truck, but here we are attacking ebikers--right in the middle of gas crunch, at $6.00/gallon?
Car manufacturer CEOs have to eat. Do you hate car manufacturer CEOs? :-D
like mopeds (Score:2)
THe USA seems (mostly) to have figured out how to separate legal requirements for combustion engine mopeds vs. small motorcycles. Seems like we could set up matching designations for BEV bikes.
For 1300 Miles, One Fewer Car on the Road, So far (Score:2)
Off the fucking sidewalks (Score:4, Insightful)
I've seen two bad accidents. One was an electric scooter nailing a pedestrian in the ankle, it was obviously a bad break. The other was an electric bike driven by a delivery person, mowed down a kid, probably under 10. Also looked really bad.
In SF, the cops don't give a shit about bikes or pedestrians. (One of several reasons I don't give a shit about them.) But in a functional polity, that would be at least negligent assault, if not a more severe crime.
I can live with human powered conveyance on the sidewalk, especially if it is kids. Add a motor (don't care what the power source is) and you are a menace I hope I get to see you faceplant at a high speed.
Good. They are getting out of hand (Score:3)
When school lets out in my neighborhood, the streets are full of swarms of high-speed ebikes dashing every which way. The number of accidents is staggering. Something needs to change.
China (Score:3)
People worry about China landing in California and taking over but it might be that having the Chinese Communist Party run California would reduce both taxes and regulation.
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People worry about China landing in California and taking over but it might be that having the Chinese Communist Party run California would reduce both taxes and regulation.
Funny you should mention China - they banned ebikes in December of last year! https://www.tropicalhainan.com... [tropicalhainan.com]
Dirt e-bikes (Score:3)
coming for an ebike. (Score:3)
More unenforceable laws (Score:2)
They aren't coming for your ebikes (Score:2)
in my state they have also had issues with this. They are sick of kids getting in auto accidents with ebikes and they are sick of kids having their heads split open because no one rides a helmut, now they have laws for this. Do we want our streets turning into a 3rd world country where anything goes with no traffic laws? Do we want traumatic brain injuries in kids that are to stupid to put helmets on?
The Rules (Score:2)
Where I live, the rules are generally the same for e-bikes as regular bikes. Wear a helmet, stay off the sidewalks.
The additional rules are "max assist speed 32 km/h" and "counts as a motorized vehicle if your dumbass has been prohibited from driving by a judge"
If licensing rules come here, I want a speed increase.
License plate? (Score:2)
I see nothing about operators licenses. IMO, if your state allows you to operate a vehicle on a roadway, a drivers license should be a requirement. Prove you understand the rules of the road.
insanity (Score:2)
What I see in Calif suburban/exurban subdivision is 10 year old girls riding 20 mph escooters and e-bikes in the middle of the road with no clue what is going on around them. Of course, that's nothing compared to the 13 year old boys riding ebikes on narrow sidewalks at 30 mph. One of them nearly hit me right in front of my house.
Not as easy to track you w/ Flock without a plate (Score:2)
Re:I don't live in California but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Around here it is rare enough for cops to ticket people blocking intersections, blowing through red lights, or doing 40 through a 20mph residential neighborhood. If CA is similar I doubt enforcement will be a priority.
Re: I don't live in California but... (Score:2)
proud ignorance.
come to California.
5th largest economy on this planet.
public transportation is a punch line.
and there is so much more
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Re:I don't live in California but... (Score:5, Insightful)
... I suspect the police there have better things to do with their time than chase kids on ebikes across parks and playgrounds.
Obviously they'd rather be pulling easy overtime parked in front of some construction job than counting fish, but you still need game wardens. We had to register our dirt bikes out in rural BFE and they'd catch us if we didn't, or sit at the empty truck parked next to the gravel pit and wait you out.
Ignoring the problems doesn't help. Registration and classification need to happen, and it will happen in every state, it's a matter of time. E-bikes are in a strange spot, not likely to start a grass fire so some old rules and conventions shouldn't apply, but they can wreck a trail as bad as anything else, so some rules should. They're not obnoxious sounding so that should open some unconventional paths, but they also have power output literally anywhere between pedal assist and motocross while sort of looking and sounding the same, and weighing anywhere in between. So in terms of damage they could do to trails, lawns, pedestrians, other trail users etc, it's all over the place.
I get that we shouldn't race to rules and regulations right away, because it might have stymied all that variety that we have right now, bikes would be made for different CA legal buckets and that could kill a lot of the different options we have. But dude.. putting a plate on them is the most obvious first step, it's so the cops DON'T have to chase down every dumbass kid, we can take a picture of them cutting holes in the soccer field and get the ball rolling on trespassing charges quicker. Go look at any Facebook group for suburban anywhere and you'll see what the problem is.
At the same time, we need more e-bike friendly trail options out in suburban areas, because it's a great way to get kids outside and active, and off the places we don't want them using these things. Like what we do for skaters.
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Dude, they may be hassling kids in the rural areas, but in cities on the East Coast youths (i.e 12 to 35yos) ride unregistered gas dirt bikes and ATVs with total impunity through and around traffic and have for at least a decade. Both as transportation and as cultural expression.
this article is from Cleveland area this week , but it's the same in Philadelphia and DC suburbs at least.
https://fox8.com/news/i-team/w... [fox8.com]
Like with so many other things the government and cops will hassle the relatively law abid
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In our neighborhood all the kids (who look like they weigh about 75 lbs, so about 2x the hp/weight ratio of an adult) have these borderline dirt bike looking things and they're constantly doing the "ride doing a wheelie for 500' in a mostly straight line" except when they wipe out and slide into oncoming traffic. A couple of kids this year have already gone to the hospital in my area for that sort of thing. I dunno how fast they can go but seems like at least 30mph with tweaks which is street legal scooter
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These people are generally not skilled in the same way committed bikers are (myself included, I can't maintain 20mph on a normal bike). The built in selection process we previously had is now gone.
Wait... in rural BFE kids might start dirt biking at like 6, 7. We didn't have speedometers but ... 50cc is just the STARTING point, and those have no problem going 20. And off road, where at any speed you learn scanning the ground in front of you like a hawk.
E-bikes come in every size and are available in places dirt bikes aren't. There's just no reason to assume kids are inexperienced with speed like that. I mean maybe.. everyone starts somewhere. The way you're looking at it as a committed bicyclist, lik
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I'll just have to start taking my Pontiac V-8 to the office everyday.
If you were driving a Surron down the sidewalk to the office everyday, yes please do. And stay off the sidewalk, if it needed to be said, idiot.