Will Maryland's Utility Bills Increase $1.6B to Support Other States' Datacenters? (tomshardware.com) 71
To upgrade its grid for data centers, PJM Interconnection (which serves 13 states) plans to spend $22 billion — and charge nearly $2 billion of that to customers in Maryland, argues Maryland's Office of People's Counsel. The money "will be recovered in rates for decades" and "drive up Maryland customer bills by $1.6 billion over the next ten years alone," they said Friday, announcing an official complaint filed with America's Federal Energy Regulatory Commission.
Extra demand is expected from Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Illinois "where demands driven by data centers are projected to grow substantially by 2036," they explain. But that means that Maryland customers "are subsidizing data center-driven transmission buildout by virtue of geographic proximity..." Tom's Hardware explains: That means an extra $823 million for residential (approx. $345 per customer), $146 million for commercial (approx. $673 per customer), and $629 million for industrial customers (approx. $15,074 per customer)... "Maryland customers have neither caused the need for these billions in new transmission projects nor will they meaningfully benefit from them," [according to Maryland People's Counsel David S. Lapp]....
This is one of the biggest reasons why many AI hyperscalers are facing pushback from the communities where they intend to place their data centers. At the moment, around 69 jurisdictions have passed some sort of moratorium on projects like these, and a survey has shown that nearly half of Americans do not want a data center in their neighborhood. Debates around these projects are passionate, with a few cases turning violent and even resulting in shootings (thankfully, without any casualties), especially as many feel that the construction of these power-hungry assets is threatening their lifestyles and quality of life.
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader noshellswill for sharing the news.
Extra demand is expected from Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Illinois "where demands driven by data centers are projected to grow substantially by 2036," they explain. But that means that Maryland customers "are subsidizing data center-driven transmission buildout by virtue of geographic proximity..." Tom's Hardware explains: That means an extra $823 million for residential (approx. $345 per customer), $146 million for commercial (approx. $673 per customer), and $629 million for industrial customers (approx. $15,074 per customer)... "Maryland customers have neither caused the need for these billions in new transmission projects nor will they meaningfully benefit from them," [according to Maryland People's Counsel David S. Lapp]....
This is one of the biggest reasons why many AI hyperscalers are facing pushback from the communities where they intend to place their data centers. At the moment, around 69 jurisdictions have passed some sort of moratorium on projects like these, and a survey has shown that nearly half of Americans do not want a data center in their neighborhood. Debates around these projects are passionate, with a few cases turning violent and even resulting in shootings (thankfully, without any casualties), especially as many feel that the construction of these power-hungry assets is threatening their lifestyles and quality of life.
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader noshellswill for sharing the news.
Yeah. It will (Score:2, Insightful)
Our entire civilization is being slowly dismantled. But how about those trans girls in sports am I right?
Re: Yeah. It will (Score:1)
Re: Yeah. It will (Score:4, Insightful)
Violence doesn't work for left-wing causes.
Violence doesn't work for political causes, if your objective is anything other than an authoritarian dictatorship.
Re: Bingo and that why the right wing is very very (Score:2)
Says the J6er that still thinks Mike Pence is the villain in the story.
Re: (Score:3)
Violence does work at times for political causes. Just look at the American, French and Russian revolutions for clear examples. (Note: I am not advocating violence, just pointing out that it isn't true that violence can't work.) And yes, I am aware that those revolutions didn't always work out as planned. In the French case, it went back and forth between democratic and authoritarian for over a century (with violence in each transition), but without the initial violence it wouldn't have wound up a democracy
Re: (Score:3)
As a revolution, the American revolution was a complete failure at overthrowing the British government, got no where near Parliament. It was a very successful war of secession which resulted in independence from the British government. There has been other successful wars of secession, though many such as various ones in Africa ended up authoritarian.
The Russian revolution resulted in an Authoritarian State with brief periods of democracy and is still authoritarian.
The French revolutions, as you state, resu
Re: (Score:2)
I doubt that this is needed here though. Plenty of public outrage will be heard at some point. Oh and the bubble still can burst.
Imagine that the bubble bursts AFTER P
Re: (Score:2)
Using violence against harder targets is more of an organizational problem; and solving that problem potentially skews your candidate pool; but what's very curious(particularly for a society whose overall violence numbers are very much on the high side by developed world standards) is how safe it apparently is to be widely notorious and a fairly soft target. Thompson was just walking down the sidewalk alone at a predictable time and l
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
In this case its the buildout of new transmission lines, which the Maryland customers are having to subsidize. The end users should have to pay for all of that.
Re: (Score:2)
I had a friend in Texas (Pecos) who had to pay the full cost (thousands) to have the power company run the line and put up the poles to get power to their trailer.
The DC outfits should have to foot the bill for the higher rated lines to the DC, and for the upgrades to the grid to support their massive energy use.
Re: (Score:2)
"To their trailer" is the key here. Texas law already requires that every utility company provide power to every property, no matter how remote, at no cost--but only to the property line. It's up to the homeowner to get it across their property as needed (or pay them to).
Re: (Score:2)
To clarify, requires power capability (transmission) be provided, not the electricity itself at no cost of course.
Re: Yeah. It will (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Our civilization is doing just fine, and female sports divisions are for females only. Males can always compete in male sports divisions or coed sports.
Especially if you define "doing just fine" as steadily growing wealth inequality that leaves much of the population struggling to cover basic necessities, the abandonment of the rule of law, and accelerating climate change that risks destabilizing the earth's biosphere. If that's how you define it then yeah, our civilization is doing just fine.
Also if you get to define the words "male" and "female". That's key. That other people define them differently than you is proof that your definitions are right an
Re: (Score:2)
Wealth inequality is how this country has functioned since it's inception... there wouldn't be people owning businesses wanting to hire workers if they didn't have more money than the 'little people'.
Accelerating climate change will continue long after we switch to 1,000% renewables and BEVs (and, making those BEVs using electricity from solar/wind/hydro).
Burning NatGas pollutes, so can't use that, either, for power.
Even the 'total switch' happening tomorrow, it'll still take like well over 100 years for th
Re: (Score:1)
You could put solar panels on your roof, rsilvergun. Unless you have a problem with saving the planet.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
We are not going to build the capacity because that would require tax dollars
Building generators does not require tax dollars.
they're not going to pay for you to have electricity
Of course not. We buy electricity from the utilities. They don't pay us to take it.
Re: (Score:3)
Simple: If you have to spend $2bil to support one customer, you make that customer pay it, not all of them.
Not just data centers (Score:1)
Re:Not just data centers (Score:5, Informative)
The difference is that electric cars and trucks primarily charge overnight, when the demand for electricity is low.
You don't need to improve the grid capacity to serve people charging when you have excess capacity available.
Re: (Score:1)
during the day, that capacity is being used to power offices, and retail businesses, and air conditioners, and to cook food
Re: (Score:2)
My electric usage is higher at night because that's when I'm home (and charging two cars). During the day when I'm not home, I'm not using much electricity, at all.
Congrats on being you, but the duck curve doesn't care about individuals. The grid only cares about total consumption, and most consumption still happens during the day.
Re: (Score:2)
Commercial electric vehicles will charge as needed. Not just at night.
Re: (Score:3)
It's irrelevant anyway since this article is about what's wanted for AI data centres alone. They are rapidly placing enormous demands on the grid that greatly overloads available capacity. In fact, they would've expanded faster if they could've. All for some gimmicky chat bots.
So they should willingly contribute to the public good by wholly paying for not just the expansion they want themselves but also extra. Cover some of EV demands at the same time.
Re: (Score:2)
Many of them will eventually, by going out of business. That will cause demand destruction. In the meantime they are like the smelly neighbour who showed up at the party, and everyone just has to hold their nose.
Re: (Score:3)
Just that "as needed" is also going to be mostly at night after the driving shift is over. Still follows the general rule of it's charging when most people aren't using it.
Also makes a case for rates being lower during non-peak hours that will help businesses prioritize charging during those better hours and more appropriately place the costs.
Re:Not just data centers (Score:4, Interesting)
A former head of AT&T back when it was The Phone Company made a comment along the lines that the long distance network had to be built to cope with with mother's day and everything else was free. It was used as an example of how guesses about CapEx vs OpEx can go very wrong. It might have been Fred Kappel who said that.
Re: (Score:2)
It's also charging when there's no solar, so "back on the grid" with you, which means that they'll recalculate rates, and most likely, the power companies will get rid of off-peak hours. And, the precious datacenters will need power day or night.
Re: (Score:2)
How? Commercial vehicles can rack up hundreds of miles per day depending on the nature of the work. And if they gotta haul then range goes way down. They'll be plugged in during the day.
Re: (Score:1)
Which will mostly be when the drivers sleep: at night.
Stupid nitpickers.
Re: (Score:2)
See above reply, that ain't gonna work except for the lightest of light duty vehicles.
Re: (Score:1)
Works for every vehicle.
Hint: the world is bigger than your Oyster.
If it does not work in your yahoo land, then there might be a reason. Perhaps you can figure the reason and tell us?
Re: (Score:2)
The difference is that electric cars and trucks primarily charge overnight, when the demand for electricity is low.
You don't need to improve the grid capacity to serve people charging when you have excess capacity available.
Except the switch to solar generation means the excess capacity at night is thinner than it used to be.
Re: (Score:2)
The difference is that electric cars and trucks primarily charge overnight, when the demand for electricity is low.
You don't need to improve the grid capacity to serve people charging when you have excess capacity available.
One of the biggest dynamic changes here is that due to solar and wind being largely day time producers, the biggest green energy transition countries and now finding the opposite, the excess capacity is very much during the day.
Where I live this has already happened. Off-peak and on-peak in our contracts have already changed incentivising people to try and doing heavy loads like charging cars, heating, washing, drying, etc during the middle of the day rather than overnight. For info on this google "Solar Du
Re:Not just data centers (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
> I suggest that we aggregate data, and look at facts. Then determine policy based on facts. When those facts don't agree with your world view, don't call them "fake news" and make up policies that will pad your pockets with money.
What are the facts? Again and again and again -- what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what "the stars foretell," avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable "verdict of history" -- what are the facts, and
Re: (Score:3)
Electric vehicles are at least useful.
who is protecting us? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:who is protecting us? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
All you need to do is ask ChatGPT for a good hallucination. You can get it to convincingly say just about anything.
Re:who is protecting u (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
I believe that the USA is facing its "Hitler" moment, where about 33% of White Nationalists are taking over everybody. They don't seem to care about what is in the United States Constitution, nor about the concept about forming a More Perfect Union. It is pure selfishness.
You definitely need to step away from the things that use data centers (social media, chatbots ...).
Re: (Score:2)
I believe that the USA is facing its "Hitler" moment, where about 33% of White Nationalists are taking over everybody. They don't seem to care about what is in the United States Constitution, nor about the concept about forming a More Perfect Union. It is pure selfishness.
Seriously? We're talking about data centers, and you went to Hitler? Do everyone a favor and go outside for awhile.
Re: who is protecting us? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Just dictate the terms, the solution is obvious (Score:4, Interesting)
Obviously nobody will do it, because it doesn't grease the right palms.
Re: Just dictate the terms, the solution is obviou (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That sounds like a simple answer but ultimately is one which creates a new problem. Indeed the basis of your arguments of passing costs on to the providers sounds solid but we have multiple technical and economic issues that doesn't make this proposal work:
1) Solar isn't an issue. We have excess power available during the day, but datacentres are a relatively constantly load. The biggest stress they will place on the grid is at 7pm when the sun doesn't shine.
2) You could require solar + storage, but even th
Re: (Score:2)
Fuck techbros (Score:2)
Why (Score:2)
Why does PA power have to go through MD ?
Re: (Score:3)
Allocate according to projected demand (Score:2)
Texas can teach'm a lesson, in obvisacation (Score:2)
Texas doesn't "charge", it discounts!!!
.
We give data centers 30 year locked in rates, much lower than any "household", then we pay them not to use electricity, if needed. It's all for the "common" good. So Texans won't see any darn charge ... on bills. That would be CORRUPT, darn it!
Some of us are fighting hyperscale datacenters (Score:2)
In Montgomery Co, MD, right outside DC, we're fighting, and the County Council is listening.
In the meantime, I really need to get a solar roof.