Semi-Trailer Trucks Test Converting Into Plug-In Hybrids (ieee.org) 49
Long-time Slashdot reader necro81 writes: There are several companies, such as Tesla, trying to make semi trucks fully electric. The capital cost for such a truck, and the MW-scale infrastructure to recharge it, may be a hard sell for some operators. [IEEE Spectrum notes that's a charging infrastructure "that most freight corridors do not yet reliably provide."] But some companies are instead adding batteries and an electric motor to the semi-trailers that trucks haul behind them.
"The Nivalis Powered Trailer Kit centers on an electric axle [rated at 50 kilowatts-peak]... capable of both propulsion assistance and regenerative braking. It draws on a 60-kilowatt-hour, 400-volt lithium-ion battery pack charged from three sources: the axle itself during braking and deceleration, a full-rooftop array of photovoltaic panels generating up to 3.7 kilowatts-peak, and a 32-amp, three-phase AC grid connection available during parking stops."
This approach is more akin to a plug-in hybrid: the truck may still be diesel-powered, but the electric assist from the trailer allows the truck to run more efficiently. Replacing diesel with kWh can save operators money while also reducing emissions. This incremental approach may be more accessible and less capital-intensive than replacing the truck itself.
From the article: The driver's only window into the system is a small display readable from the cab's side mirror that shows the system status and battery charge level. Nothing about the trailer's handling or licensing requirements changes. The partners project savings of up to 7,000 liters of diesel per trailer per year, which is enough to keep about 19 tonnes of carbon dioxide out of the air...
Trailer Dynamics, an Aachen-based company, has conducted field tests with BMW Logistics, DB Schenker, Duvenbeck, and Volkswagen Konzernlogistik, reporting average fuel savings of around 40% for diesel tractor combinations, substantially higher than the up to 18% reduction implied by the Nivalis projection... Trailer Dynamics prices its system between €145,000 and €195,000 and targets a payback period of no more than five years. Nivalis targets five to six years at current costs.
"The Nivalis Powered Trailer Kit centers on an electric axle [rated at 50 kilowatts-peak]... capable of both propulsion assistance and regenerative braking. It draws on a 60-kilowatt-hour, 400-volt lithium-ion battery pack charged from three sources: the axle itself during braking and deceleration, a full-rooftop array of photovoltaic panels generating up to 3.7 kilowatts-peak, and a 32-amp, three-phase AC grid connection available during parking stops."
This approach is more akin to a plug-in hybrid: the truck may still be diesel-powered, but the electric assist from the trailer allows the truck to run more efficiently. Replacing diesel with kWh can save operators money while also reducing emissions. This incremental approach may be more accessible and less capital-intensive than replacing the truck itself.
From the article: The driver's only window into the system is a small display readable from the cab's side mirror that shows the system status and battery charge level. Nothing about the trailer's handling or licensing requirements changes. The partners project savings of up to 7,000 liters of diesel per trailer per year, which is enough to keep about 19 tonnes of carbon dioxide out of the air...
Trailer Dynamics, an Aachen-based company, has conducted field tests with BMW Logistics, DB Schenker, Duvenbeck, and Volkswagen Konzernlogistik, reporting average fuel savings of around 40% for diesel tractor combinations, substantially higher than the up to 18% reduction implied by the Nivalis projection... Trailer Dynamics prices its system between €145,000 and €195,000 and targets a payback period of no more than five years. Nivalis targets five to six years at current costs.
between 165k and 222k usd? (Score:2)
how much for a new electric semi-trailer?
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The premise of the problem isn't the cost of the semi it's the lack of charging. There's currently only a few MCS chargers available. It's a bit like the debate of an electric car 15 years ago, ... and people are still bitching about charging consumer EVs today.
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German YouTuber Elektrotrucker [youtube.com] does international hauling throughout Europe for more than a year now, and he regularly recharges
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Unfortunately, the math doesn't work that way (even ignoring that a 400kWh battery is very small). Battery packs taper the closer you get to full, they're not a constant power all the way. Unless your battery pack can take 400kW at 80%, you're not charging that quickly.
Also, while 40 mins is fine in Europe (breaks: 45 minutes every 4,5 hours of driving... though using 70% of a 400kWh pack on a loaded class 8 truck going even at a slow 80kph will only take you 2 1/2h of driving in "average" conditions, s
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Trucking though (long haul) is pretty efficent accross most of the US. You have large loads on engines with tall gearing, and everything runs at pretty stable speeds.
Most of our interstate highways, with some exceptions in mount regions have a fairly narrow range of again consistent grades.
A battery-electric boost where efficiencies of the main power train fall down, long grades in the mountains, any kind of stop/go situation due to accidents, road maintenance etc, and the last miles in/near destinations
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I'd think that tractor tag-axle replacements could be a next logical step, even with no onboard batteries on the tractor and using an umbilical to the trailer's batteries, or else a small set of batteries in the truck, supplemented as needed by a large set of batteries on the trailer.
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Your words all make sense but your points don't.
First: trucking is NOT efficient. Railways are far more efficient for moving bulk goods.
Consistent grades are still grades and waste a ton of fuel that can't be recaptured - except with an EV and, to a lesser degree, a Hybrid.
A hybrid will improve efficiency vs ICE in local delivery/traffic but a full EV is still significantly more efficient.
Putting a hybrid drivetrain into a trailer is ridiculous for the vast majority of situations. There are about 3 semi-tra
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I can't drive this shit heap too far, 120km on a great day in the
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And put electric motors on all the wheels, tractor and trailer.
Efficiencies of the respective parts.
Here's an example calculation: https://www.reddit.com/r/elect... [reddit.com]
In that example, a small generator (Honda EU2200i) was clocked at about 18% efficient. Meanwhile, diesel engines are around 40% to 50% efficient when turning the energy directly into mechanical work.
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There's no reason it wouldn't "work" for a truck in the immediate practical, it just doesn't offer any real advantage and isn't plausible for logistical reasons.
We do it with train locomotives because they operate at torque/power levels where a purely mechanical transmission is a major pain in the ass to engineer, manufacture and maintain, also because the one disadvantage of an electric transmission (mass), isn't really a disadvantage for a train locomotive. But semi-trucks are small enough that the materi
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That's why you don't use a tiny petrol generator? Diesel generator efficiencies are roughly:
Small backup generator (1-15kW): ~20-28%
Midsize backup generator (20-200kW): ~30-35%
Large industrial generator (200-2000kW): ~35-42%
Also, ironically this company's plan of the trailer providing a boost will actually make the tractor less efficient. ICE engines use "brake specific fuel consumption" (BSFC) graphs to plot their efficiencies across different RPMs and different torques. You can see an example for a small
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Also, a note: when spec'ing a generator, you need to know how much you're planning to use it vs. batteries. If it's only going to be used rarely, you prefer low mass, low volume, low cost, and low maintenance when unused (at the cost of low efficiency and higher maintenance in use), whereas if it's going to be used a lot, you prefer high efficiency and low maintenance cost in use, even if at the cost of higher mass, volume, cost, and maintenance when unused. In the former case, you'd prefer to allocate th
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That's why you don't use a tiny petrol generator? Diesel generator efficiencies are roughly: ...
... still less than the efficiency of a diesel truck engine.
The OP's suggestion was to put electric motors on all the wheels and (best I can tell) run a generator off of the existing engine (akin to the alternator). But let's simplify that to just a big generator powering electric motors for an ideal number of the wheels to give it the best chance. There is the efficiency of the generator in turning gas into electricity - for the sake of argument, let's say it's as efficient as the tractor engine (40-50%).
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The mechanical transmission from the engine to the truck wheels is one of the most efficient and least issue prone parts of the system. By doing what you're suggesting, you're still eating the whole inefficiency of ICE engine (whereas the battery allows you to store and use use cheap renewable energy which is becoming increasingly abundant in many places, as well as still much more efficiently converted energy from fossil fuel if it has to come from there) and all you get is saving on some cheap oil and ste
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I can't really see many companies looking at this hybrid design and deciding it makes economic sense though. You have all the downsides of a fossil fuel engine, all the weight and maintenance and consumables. The electric part is mediocre.
Maybe it makes sense in countries with really shitty infrastructure where supplying electricity is hard or expensive, but in Europe every time sometimes under-estimates battery electric progress, time always proves them wrong.
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Anytime you convert from one time of power to another you usually incur a ton of loss. Charging the battery with the engine or running the motors with the generator output, mechanical -> electric only to go back to mechanical pretty much destroys any advantage you get from running the engine more optimally.
Yes rail roads do this, but it is not about (fuel) efficiency, it is about torque / tractive effort (not a rail way engineer so I don't understand all the details differences )
With automotive hybrids
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Edison Motors (Canada) does this. They use a generator spec'd diesel engine to power a generator which charges the onboard batteries.
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That's pretty much what Edison Motors is doing with their Diesel Electric hybrid trucks, but their trucks are targeting logging and other industrial uses, not long haul logistics.
Anyone seen 2017 "Logan"? (Score:2)
In that movie, there's these container haulers that just look like a run-away trailer without the truck, self driving and electrically powered, completely autonomously (and rather inconsiderately of pedestrians) blasting down the roads.
Well, this development feels like something that could actually lead to that future, a little at a time. Once you electrify the trailer with "assist", it might as well be given the ability to move around "on its own", slowly, around enclosed cargo ports, to facilitate the loa
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Once you electrify the trailer with "assist", it might as well be given the ability to move around "on its own", slowly, around enclosed cargo ports, to facilitate the loading and whatnot, and come meet their tow out front, saving the time of the driver and the truck.
Except that the trailer only has a single electrified axle. It has no steering capability (it doesn't even front wheels to support its weight!), no sensors to be aware of its surroundings, no compute power to make sense of the world and navigate to its destination.
It's highly likely that we'll end up with "animated death prisms", given enough time, but it's a giant leap from what this article is talking about to that. Any well-resourced engineer could stick a battery and motor onto a trailer. What you
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Of course, but my point is that instead of one giant leap, the general direction of electrifying the trailer means you can incrementally inch towards it without trying to make a level 5 death bricks all at once.
Yeah, it's a single unsteerable axle right now, but if these becomes common, you might as well eventually add steering that'd help with manoeuvres in tight spaces. If that proliferates well, you might as well start tacking on some autonomy to use in enclosed industrial areas. Once you have em rolling
Travel trailers too (Score:3)
Scalable? (Score:2, Insightful)
My first thought is it doesn't seem particularly scalable -- there are so many more trailers than there are tractors...
Re: Scalable? (Score:3)
This. And it pretty much flies in the face of the intermodal transportation system.
It's a nice idea, but who equips their trailer with this to save money for the stranger hauling it around?
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> It's a nice idea, but who equips their trailer with this to save money for the stranger hauling it around?
Fleet operators, where they don't have strangers hauling around their trailers; e.g. USPS, Amazon, FedEx, UPS.
=Smidge=
Real advantage is the assist, not the braking. (Score:2)
For the best hybrids, the major advantage is not the regenerative braking. While that helps save some energy, it is relatively minor.
Instead the main advantage is that you can design the internal combustion engine (ICE) to run at a consistent RPM. You do not need to run the ICE at different speeds to get 30 mph, 45 mph and 60 mph. Instead you have one that just runs at a set RPM. Then you use the hybrid battery to supply all the power at low speeds and a boost at the max speeds.
The more efficient ICE c
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It's more than just a set RPM. It is also a set power level. An ICE engine is typically the most efficient at a set RPM and 70-80% of maximum power for that RPM.
Then size the engine for roughly highway speed on level terrain. Maybe give it the ability to go higher in RPM - less efficient, but able to handle going up a big hill/mountain if necessary. But ideally the battery would handle that, then charge up on the way down.
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The major advantage is being able to use an engine that's worthless for acceleration, e.g. Atkinson cycle. All ICEs are most efficient at a specific point on the torque/RPM chart so that's not the differentiator.
Regen braking is the biggest benefit in the city. It's essentially irrelevant everywhere else, but whether it matters most or not depends on where you're driving.
This seems dubious... (Score:5, Insightful)
This seems dubious at multiple levels.
Solar panels: The roof of a trailer is about 450 square feet. In the northeastern U.S., you would average only 3.5 hours of full sun, so you'd get only a little over 13 kW per day.
Tesla semis are pretty efficient, and they use about 1.7 kWh per mile. So in an entire day, covering the entire roof of a trailer with solar panels would add a whopping 7 miles of range, or 15 minutes of extra driving — the equivalent of plugging into a Tesla Megacharger for maybe 30 seconds or so.
Let's optimistically assume that the vehicle can carry 48,000 pounds. If those panels occupy the full roof area, then at about 3 pounds of weight per square foot, those solar panels would weigh 1500 pounds, or about 3% of your cargo, all to reduce your fuel usage by as little as 1% if you're doing long haul at 65 MPH. And that weight number may be wildly optimistic. Trailers like that aren't designed to have weight on the roof, and would require additional structure to hold that extra weight. The real losses could be significantly higher. Unless you're driving less than a couple of hundred miles in a day, the solar panels won't break even. And if you're driving less than a couple of hundred miles per day, there's no reason you can't go electric.
Battery and motor on the trailer: I would expect most trucks to be used primarily for either short-haul or long-haul purposes, not both. If you're doing long-haul, you'd probably be better off with an actual hybrid tractor so that you get the benefit no matter whose trailer you're hauling. If you're doing short-haul, there's likely no reason not to go full electric.
I just don't get it.
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Solar isn't for extending range, it's for self charging while idle. It's never been a viable way to extend range and only ever a suitable addition for any device that may spend a lot of time stationary.
And example of such a thing would be ... a trailer. These things can spend a significant portion of their life parked.
By the way I just checked, apparently most of the world is not "Northesatern USA" despite how much Washington State would have you believe otherwise. Using the worst case on a national level t
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Most of the world is not Northern Canada, which must be where they got that number from. Maine averages 4.55 peak sun hours per day [thegreenwatt.com], and is the northereasternmost state in the continental United States. Even Washington state is at 3.95 [thegreenwatt.com].
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I just checked, Washington State and Seattle are both not in the Northeastern USA and are unaware of any campaign to convince the world otherwise.
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I just checked, Washington State and Seattle are both not in the Northeastern USA and are unaware of any campaign to convince the world otherwise.
Well so what I said was true then, despite my usual issue of getting east and west confused. X-D
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So the solar generation function of a panel is no sun, no power, partial sun, no power, peak sun hours, full power.
Well, I guess that you're the expert.
Maybe that's enough to get you over a time zone or so so that you
I Like The Concept (Score:2)
I like the concept! But the practicality is questionable, especially at that price.
The solar charging peak seems much lower than I'd expect. My thinking is that it should be closer to 8k peak. I wonder why their estimates are so low. But, even at 8kW, and a generous 4 hours of good production it's not nearly enough.
But, the price is a big factor. Can these trailers hope to produce enough savings to justify a 5X increase in cost per trailer? I highly doubt it.
People grossly underestimate the energy density o
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A step in the right direction, I guess... (Score:2)
I kinda wonder if it's worth it though. In the configuration described in TFS, at full charge that battery is only good for about 80 horsepower. And count on less than an equivalent reduction in fuel consumption because of things like the added weight of the battery and the motor.
I'm all for doing these experiments. But one of the systems described in TFA costs between 145k and 195k Euros per trailer. Multiply that by even a few transport fleets, and I have to ask if that money could be better spent on rewo
Need to do the same thing to train cars (Score:2)
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What if short distance trains didn't even need batteries, but instead simply got their power from the rails or from overhead wires.
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