Apple's iCloud File Sharing Left Ex-Employees With Access to Secret Documents (macrumors.com) 82
Apple's practice of mixing employees' work files with personal iCloud accounts reportedly left some former staff with continued access to confidential documents, messages, and even new updates after leaving the company. "The former employees said many Apple files they had been shared on over their careers at the company -- including planning documents for product launch events -- continued to sync to their personal devices through the iCloud storage service after they left Apple," reports The Information. "In some cases, they even received notifications about fresh updates to the documents. Some former employees said they were petrified to delete the files for fear that doing so would attract Apple's attention." MacRumors reports: Apple files get mixed in with employees' accounts because the company encourages them to use their personal Apple Accounts with their work iCloud account. Employees are given a 2TB iCloud plan and are able to merge the storage with their existing Apple Account or create a new account. Since only one primary account can be signed in at a time, most opt to use their existing account to avoid having to carry two iPhones. Apple has a managed folder for workplace files that it revokes access to when an employee leaves, but some internal documents aren't saved there automatically and shared files end up mixed in with personal content. Employees can also retain access to iMessage chats and files shared via the Messages app.
Lingering access to Apple systems is central to Apple's lawsuit against OpenAI. In its filing, Apple alleged that former employee Chang Liu breached Apple's systems using a "rare, previously unknown authentication bug" to download files while he was working at OpenAI. Apple told The Information that the OpenAI lawsuit is unrelated to any files left available on iCloud and that it does not pursue legal claims against former employees who accidentally have Apple documents in their personal iCloud accounts. "This case is about OpenAI employees wrongfully taking Apple's secret and confidential information regarding our unreleased technologies, processes, and products. Nothing in the filing relates to documents shared by, or stored in, iCloud."
Lingering access to Apple systems is central to Apple's lawsuit against OpenAI. In its filing, Apple alleged that former employee Chang Liu breached Apple's systems using a "rare, previously unknown authentication bug" to download files while he was working at OpenAI. Apple told The Information that the OpenAI lawsuit is unrelated to any files left available on iCloud and that it does not pursue legal claims against former employees who accidentally have Apple documents in their personal iCloud accounts. "This case is about OpenAI employees wrongfully taking Apple's secret and confidential information regarding our unreleased technologies, processes, and products. Nothing in the filing relates to documents shared by, or stored in, iCloud."
Defective by design (Score:5, Insightful)
The root cause comes from these twelve words:
Since only one primary account can be signed in at a time ...
Authentication systems that allow only a single signed-in account are defective by design. Approximately 100% of all people have more than one account that they need to be signed in with.
I have half a dozen Google accounts for specific purposes — one for work, one for personal, one for electronic music tablets to which multiple people share physical access, a couple of old domain-specific accounts that got converted from free work profiles, and I'm probably forgetting some. Not all of these are useful, but if I could not have continuous access to work and personal, it would be a tremendous pain in the backside.
And encouraging people to merge profiles like that is nuts. It all but guarantees leaks. A confidentiality agreement typically protects things you learned in the scope of your employment, but after you are employed, if they continue to send you confidential information, there's a decent chance that you aren't under any legal obligation to keep that secret.
This is just a really bad way to do things, driven by a fundamental flaw in their architecture. And it doesn't just cause problems for Apple. It causes problems for their customers as well. I can't have a separate iCloud account for my work. I have to use a Google account. And more than that, when I hit the maximum number of AirTag devices (which I'm about to reach), I can't add additional iCloud accounts. I'm hard-capped at a single account.
While we're at it, the limitation of a single user per iPad stems from the same defective design process. All of those sorts of 1:1 mapping decisions between accounts, users, and devices need to be fundamentally rethought, because they were always a mistake. Maybe now that Apple is being bitten by it, they'll finally do the things that users have been asking them to do for the last decade. Bonus points if they lose their lawsuit because of a lack of a modicum of care on their part, because that just might be enough to wake the sleeping giant and get them to fix this mess.
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Apple's entire ecosystem is defective by design, not just their authentication system. Their security, software engineering, cloud engineering, and UI/UX are all defective by design.
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I agree that it's a frustration to only have access to a single account at a time (in this case, an Apple ID), but I'll point out that this is the use case for probably 99.9% of their users. And there are some exceptions to this rule: Apple does have a mechanism in place that lets you use one Apple ID for music and a different one for their various App Stores, for example. However, this still doesn't let you use two Apple IDs for a single service at the same time.
I think the reasoning behind this is pretty
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the UI problems involved in allowing multiple simultaneous logins to the same service are extremely complex
I mean, maybe if you're bad at software engineering, networking, and/or UX. Otherwise, it's relatively easy.
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I agree that it's a frustration to only have access to a single account at a time (in this case, an Apple ID), but I'll point out that this is the use case for probably 99.9% of their users. And there are some exceptions to this rule: Apple does have a mechanism in place that lets you use one Apple ID for music and a different one for their various App Stores, for example. However, this still doesn't let you use two Apple IDs for a single service at the same time.
I think the reasoning behind this is pretty solid: the UI problems involved in allowing multiple simultaneous logins to the same service are extremely complex, and if you're only looking at a frustration for a vanishingly small percentage of your userbase, it doesn't make sense to make it more complex for everybody.
It really isn't complex. Google does it just fine. You have an account picker in the upper right corner, and you choose which account you're using to interact with that app. No big deal.
Having a mechanism to use one account for music and a different one for app stores? Now that's complex. That's adding special-casing for each app that needs to handle a separate account, instead of designing the auth system correctly to support multiple accounts to begin with. It's almost always easier to do it right t
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I also disagree with the claim that 99.9% of users only have one iCloud account
Of course. If you had an iCloud account back when it was MobileMe, it didn't function as your iTunes account. Later on, when all accounts function as Apple IDs, you find out that new accounts are both but you can't merge yours - they are separate forever.
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In my recent experience this is true. I tried to create a separate Apple ID for business so that I didn't need my personal Apple ID for it. Was weirdly complicated process. I even contacted apple business dev. people from local Apple Store. Their process begins with emailing forms that you fill out and send back in! Never got it to work properly and abandoned it.
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Which doesn't really work as users routine confuse their accounts and upload files to the wrong account, and then confusion ensues when files are stored partially on a work account and on a personal account.
Microsoft makes it somewhat better because OneDrive ends up with different accounts show up multiple times. And YouTube
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Which doesn't really work as users routine confuse their accounts and upload files to the wrong account, and then confusion ensues when files are stored partially on a work account and on a personal account.
And that's when the corporate systems are configured to warn if you try to share something with or from the wrong account, and you shame the user into doing it right. Besides, this is usually only a problem for brand new users. Once you have a bunch of files uploaded to both accounts, you're not going to suddenly see the files from your personal account, and think, "Oh, this is where my work stuff goes".
It's only confusing if you have access to the same files from both accounts. And then, yeah, you'll ge
Re:Defective by design (Score:4, Informative)
An iPhone is designed for personal use. It was never designed to have 1000's of these things (or more) 100% owned and 100% centrally managed by a company.
Companies supply "work phones" for a reason. You really don't want all your employees in key supplier or customer facing roles to be working on a privately controlled phone number and device (and sometimes private email addresses/messaging services). Don't even get into all the data retention legal issues when people discuss non-public information on devices that can personally wipe.
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Companies supply "work phones" for a reason.
I've never wanted to carry two phones, let alone two smart phones, and I imagine most people feel the same. If the company gives me a phone, it promptly goes into my desk, or equivalent, and stays there.
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Employer created and managed Apple IDs (Score:2)
Isn’t the fix to let employer’s create and manage employee specific Apple IDs? Doesn’t Apple want organizations to buy into the Apple ecosystem?
I’d like to think an Apple work ID would require an Apple email address, but that might be true at creation time, and en employee could change the email to something else.
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How is this not working as designed?
That's the point, it's an overwhelmingly bad design, like everything else Apple does.
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Apple designs amazing hardware and great software. But when we get to online/networked/cloud... It's kinda shit, yeah. Which is notable because other companies have done extremely well in that space, to the point that Google's good-but-imperfect network services get more public complaints than Apple's dear-god-why network services. We just expect it now.
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Apple designs amazing hardware and great software.
Visually, sometimes. Functionally, no.
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Apple designs amazing hardware and great software.
Visually, sometimes. Functionally, no.
You are stating something from another place, I can do everything on My Mac that I can do on My Windows machines - I have programs that are Mac Only, I have a VM that allows me to do the couple of Windows only. Wh functional system do you have that is better?
Windows can't be it, W11 has a well established record that shows it is regressing, and Linux is a lot of fun, for many of my use cases, excellent, But the non-functional Mac is a meme for people who probably never used one. But if it helps you feel
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Linux (though not all distros are equal) > Microsoft (even with their regressions) > Apple. I do not give a fuck about your anecdotal experience.
You can have your own opinion, not your own facts.
Apple sucking at software engineering is a fact. They have always sucked at it. iTunes is functionally shit software no matter what OS it's on (and it looks like ass as well). SwiftUI and Xcode perform like shit and the APIs are garbage. I'm also old enough to remember the aids that was Apple Quicktime.
The only thing Apple is decent at is low level hardware i
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Linux (though not all distros are equal) > Microsoft (even with their regressions) > Apple. I do not give a fuck about your anecdotal experience.
Its not anecdotal, that’s you trying to rationalize an inconvenient face.
A Windows PC can run any Linux distro on the Windows desktop through Microsoft’s WSL. This gets Linux on the windows desktop. A single desktop with commercial, FOSS (much of which is available as a native windows build), and Linux.
Mac takes this even further. You can get Windows and Linux running natively on the Mac desktop. I’m doing this on a modest Mac mini M4 with 24GB RAM. Windows 11 and Debian better than
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Linux (though not all distros are equal) > Microsoft (even with their regressions) > Apple. I do not give a fuck about your anecdotal experience.
Its not anecdotal, that’s you trying to rationalize an inconvenient face.
Well, apparently he does not give a fsck, and we must remember that is the sort of intellect we're dealing with.
But seriously, apparently for some, an update that sends their computer into a reboot loop, or not boot at all, or kills bluetooth, or renames all the song drivers or just kill them, or moves programs into the cloud, or just the ones that are supposed to be on the computer or renames the local user to the to the Microsoft account, killing the programs associated with that, or a lot of others is
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How a machine that runs the three major OS' is somehow deficient, is one of the mysteries
Probably because it highly unnecessary to run all three, when one can do everything without the others.
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How a machine that runs the three major OS' is somehow deficient, is one of the mysteries
Probably because it highly unnecessary to run all three, when one can do everything without the others.
So, my Windows machine can run my Mac only Software? I use a lot of Final Cut Pro Studio. And Adobe CS is definitely smoother on the Mac. Time Machine provides backup of everything, including programs, with hourly backups, multiple custom backups.
And the closest thing on Windows is disk imaging, which is remarkably deficient by comparison.
I have a Windows VM because there are a couple programs that are Windows only.
Perhaps your inexperience with MacOS, and your need to hate on it is based more on ign
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So, my Windows machine can run my Mac only Software? I use a lot of Final Cut Pro Studio. And Adobe CS is definitely smoother on the Mac.
No, but also, neither of those softwares are unique to Apple only. DaVinci Resolve is better than Final Cut Pro. All Adobe products are a waste of money, no matter the OS, and there are lots of alternatives.
Time Machine provides backup of everything, including programs, with hourly backups, multiple custom backups.
There are Time Machine alternatives that do all the same things.
and your need to hate on it is based more on ignorance than anything else
No, my need to hate on Apple comes from the cult-like mentality of Apple customers and the shitty ways Apple treats its app developers.
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Linux (though not all distros are equal) > Microsoft (even with their regressions) > Apple. I do not give a fuck about your anecdotal experience.
Its not anecdotal, that’s you trying to rationalize an inconvenient face.
A Windows PC can run any Linux distro on the Windows desktop through Microsoft’s WSL. This gets Linux on the windows desktop. A single desktop with commercial, FOSS (much of which is available as a native windows build), and Linux.
Mac takes this even further. You can get Windows and Linux running natively on the Mac desktop. I’m doing this on a modest Mac mini M4 with 24GB RAM. Windows 11 and Debian better than my tower PC with Intel gen 14 i7 and 64GB RAM.
Ok, and? I don't want to run Linux in Windows. Nor do I want to run Windows or Linux in MacOS. I can run pretty much any Windows app in Linux - through Wine or Proton. Most MacOS apps can be disassembled and rebuilt to run on Linux easily enough. None of this proves Apple designs good functionality when I'm limited to only their specific hardware choices.
You can have your own opinion, not your own facts.
Wow, amazing projection there.
Wasn't from me.
SwiftUI and Xcode perform like shit and the APIs are garbage.
A typical newb thing. We prefer what we are used to. We equate different with bad.
It's not a newb thing. It's a fundamentally badly designed API. You can prefer garbage all you like, but it *is* garbage.
macOS cannot, and will not, run on 90% of hardware out in the world.
By design, they are not competing for the low end commodity market. They want higher end customers with a higher ability and willingness to pay for higher quality and value.
That's all fine and
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I can run pretty much any Windows app in Linux - through Wine or Proton.
Yes, “pretty much” as in the more popular apps that wine and proton will get patches for in a prompt manner.
Most MacOS apps can be disassembled and rebuilt to run on Linux easily enough.
A console app run on a terminal, macOS is POSIX compatible, actually its honest-to-god Unix too. The Unix with the best GUI.
Not a GUI app.
\None of this proves Apple designs good functionality when I'm limited to only their specific hardware choices.
The superior user experience is the evidence. During the Intel era their hardware was equivalent to well made PC. In the Apple Silicon era their hardware is vastly superior to Intel and AMD.
It's not a newb thing. It's a fundamentally badly designed API. You can prefer garbage all you like, but it *is* garbage.
You made my point, you can prefer something inferior — be
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Yes, “pretty much” as in the more popular apps that wine and proton will get patches for in a prompt manner.
No, pretty much any. I don't need special patches for most things.
Not a GUI app.
I currently run a GUI app that has been rebuilt from a MacOS package for Linux. So, yeah, it's doable.
During the Intel era their hardware was equivalent to well made PC. In the Apple Silicon era their hardware is vastly superior to Intel and AMD.
It won't stay that way. Nor is Intel and AMD Apple's only competitors in the scene. Samsung's Snapdragon narrows the ARM gap to almost nothing, and is better at multitasking.
Folks who do a lot of cross platform development tend to have a more “different tools for different jobs” attitude.
That's fine. I'll use something more stable that ideally one requires maintaining one code base, or the right tool for the right job - which will never be Swift or Xcode.
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No, pretty much any. I don't need special patches [wine and proton] for most things.
You misunderstand. I am not talking about some sort of game specific download on your part. I am referring to the updates to wine or proton themselves. For example, a popular game gets an update. wine breaks, win then gets an update. Basically games updates can require these tools to upgrade.
I currently run a GUI app that has been rebuilt from a MacOS package for Linux. So, yeah, it's doable.
Rebuilt sounds like you are referring to a Qt app that can be recompiled from source for Linux, Windows, or Mac.
Nor is Intel and AMD Apple's only competitors in the scene. Samsung's Snapdragon narrows the ARM gap to almost nothing, and is better at multitasking.
As I said, the shift to ARM seems inevitable. And on ARM, Apple leads and is not standing still. If NVidia
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You misunderstand. I am not talking about some sort of game specific download on your part. I am referring to the updates to wine or proton themselves. For example, a popular game gets an update. wine breaks, win then gets an update. Basically games updates can require these tools to upgrade.
I understood you just fine. This is essentially no different from a game updating and requiring user update to a newer driver. You are misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about games. I'm talking regular ass applications. I've used Proton to install and run a bunch of them.
Rebuilt sounds like you are referring to a Qt app that can be recompiled from source for Linux, Windows, or Mac.
It is not. It's a native Mac app with Mac only dependencies that need to be replaced. If it was Qt, the devs would have released a Linux version themselves, or I would just build from source instead of disassembling the Mac app.
And on ARM, Apple leads
Barely. W
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You misunderstand. I am not talking about some sort of game specific download on your part. I am referring to the updates to wine or proton themselves. For example, a popular game gets an update. wine breaks, win then gets an update. Basically games updates can require these tools to upgrade.
I understood you just fine. This is essentially no different from a game updating and requiring user update to a newer driver.
Actually you are kind of demonstrating that you do not understand. Necessary wine/proton updates will lag behind game updates. How long it lags can depend on how popular your game is.
You are misunderstanding me. I'm not talking about games. I'm talking regular ass applications. I've used Proton to install and run a bunch of them.
The same lag exists outside of gaming, and it varies with popularity.
Rebuilt sounds like you are referring to a Qt app that can be recompiled from source for Linux, Windows, or Mac.
It is not. It's a native Mac app with Mac only dependencies that need to be replaced. If it was Qt, the devs would have released a Linux version themselves, or I would just build from source instead of disassembling the Mac app.
You really seem to have little understanding of porting an app from macOS to Windows or Linux. Disassembly can help you understand the currently compiled code, but that assembly language list has little applicability to porting.
And on ARM, Apple leads
Barely. We've seen leads like th
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Actually you are kind of demonstrating that you do not understand. Necessary wine/proton updates will lag behind game updates. How long it lags can depend on how popular your game is.
The same lag exists outside of gaming, and it varies with popularity.
And yet, I've never had an issue with either and have never needed to wait.
You really seem to have little understanding of porting an app from macOS to Windows or Linux. Disassembly can help you understand the currently compiled code, but that assembly language list has little applicability to porting.
And you have little understanding of what is happening.
Nope. ARM was one of the internal target platforms for macOS before iOS. It was not released, it was to help ensure that the codebase remained portable after the shift from PowerPC to Intel.
Doesn't change anything.
Nope. There are architectural and performance related differences to get the best results respectively on both desktop and mobile.
All that is on top of the same kernel.
The only benchmarks I’ve seen where X2 Elite wins on multitasking are those that erroneous compare against the entry model M-series CPUs. The X2 Elite is a premium version of the X2, it should be compared against Apple silicon Pro or Max variants.
I *did* forget about the Pro version of M5 because I only checked Max. But both Pro and Max were released at roughly the same time and are both newer than X2 Elite. So I still stand by my statement that the next X2 Elite will beat, or essentially tie, the Max (and therefore also the Pro) in multitasking. X2 Elite eithe
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And yet, I've never had an issue with either and have never needed to wait.
From Google: "Typical Patch Timeline
Hours to 3 Days: Valve's "Proton Experimental" branch. If a major game (like Halo Infinite or Arc Raiders) is broken by a patch, Valve often pushes targeted fixes directly to this branch almost immediately.
Days to 1 Week: GE-Proton (formerly Proton-GE). Community developers work very fast to release hotfixes for broken launchers or specific game regressions.
1 to 4 Weeks: Proton Stable & Wine. These updates undergo more rigorous testing to ensure new fixes don't acc
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If a major game (like Halo Infinite or Arc Raiders) is broken by a patch, Valve often pushes targeted fixes directly to this branch almost immediately.
Yeah, I know. You keep repeating this. I don't know how many ways I can tell you that I have *never* had a game update break Proton/Wine and I've have *never* needed to wait for a Proton patches to play. Most games I play don't even require Proton because they're Linux native.
2) { Magic }
Tough shit. It's happening.
Other than debunk your idea that iOS involved a port to ARM that was then moved back to macOS.
You haven't because that is factually what has happened with their actual releases. Yes, internally, they messed with MacOS on ARM, but as you stated they didn't release it. Because they took it and turned it
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Yeah, I know. You keep repeating this. I don't know how many ways I can tell you that I have *never*
Your experience does not contradict my point, you merely fit into the niche of the most popular games. My point stands, your claim does not apply in general. As google showed, it can sometimes take many weeks.
1) Disassamble
2) { Magic }
3) Proprietary macOS APIs are now replaced.
Tough shit. It's happening.
Nope. What is likely is your fundamental misunderstanding of the tools and APIs and the process of porting games. How does what you claim happen? How does one get from disassembly of a game to replacement for proprietary macOS APIs?
Other than debunk your idea that iOS involved a port to ARM that was then moved back to macOS.
You haven't because that is factually what has happened with their actual releases. Yes, internally, they messed with MacOS on ARM, but as you stated they didn't release it. Because they took it and turned it into iOS. Then they tweaked it for 13 years, as iOS, until 2020 when they added ARM back into MacOS.
They did not add it back, as you conceded ARM was in macOS before iOS.
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Your experience does not contradict my point, you merely fit into the niche of the most popular games. My point stands, your claim does not apply in general. As google showed, it can sometimes take many weeks.
Your lack of experience and reliance on Google shows that you actually know nothing.
How does one get from disassembly of a game to replacement for proprietary macOS APIs?
It's not a game nor have I ever said it was, dumbass.
Its the same project, but that does not mean the source code used to build an iOS Darwin kernel or a macOS Darwin kernel are the same, nor are drivers, etc.
Drivers, no. Kernel, yes.
The increases in unified memory speed proves otherwise. Also, the benchmark google offered literally shows a 4x increase.
Again with the reliance on Google instead of actual sources.
And yet the benchmark shows a 4x improvement.
Google didn't show you anything. AI Overview does not count.
Thank you for proving you are referring to a fake straw men. Each of those manifestly improves security and reduces tracking.
No, they don't. Because they barely do what they claim, nor are the worth paying for. Private Relay sucks and doesn't do shit for web traffic outside of a browser and can be easily tricked into leaking your real IP on any website.
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Your lack of experience
Actually I have decades of low level software experience and in porting games between platforms and providing them with long term support. This includes doing what I could to facilitate windows versions running well under wine, even though Linux was an unsupported platform. While my software had a high profile and win would patch as needed within days, I saw other lower profile games not get such attention.
and reliance on Google shows that you actually know nothing.
Actually the behavior google cited matched the behavior I observed for many years. Again, seem seem to
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Actually I have decades of low level software experience and in porting games between platforms and providing them with long term support. This includes doing what I could to facilitate windows versions running well under wine, even though Linux was an unsupported platform. While my software had a high profile and win would patch as needed within days, I saw other lower profile games not get such attention.
Great. Don't care, because it isn't relevant anymore.
Please give a try to explain it.
It's more fun to watch you claim it's not possible. It's like the Java professor telling me Java will never automatically wrap/unwrap primitives when they already released the version that did it a year or two prior to that class, and I was actively doing it.
kernel too. You will find the actual code being compiled differs in the kernel. Through conditional compilation within a file, including different files in the build process based on the OS target, etc.
Its the same project, but that does not mean the source code used to build an iOS Darwin kernel or a macOS Darwin kernel are the same
We aren't talking about the compiled code, we were talking about the source. All are compiled from the same XNU source code.
Actually they do what they claim, they just don’t do what you misrepresent or mistakenly believe.
Barely doing what they claim is still doing what they claim. The reason for
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Actually I have decades of low level software experience and in porting games between platforms and providing them with long term support. This includes doing what I could to facilitate windows versions running well under wine, even though Linux was an unsupported platform. While my software had a high profile and win would patch as needed within days, I saw other lower profile games not get such attention.
Great. Don't care, because it isn't relevant anymore.
Untrue. And it applies not only to current projects but also spotting the BS handwaving you have offered so far.
Please give a try to explain it.
It's more fun to watch you claim it's not possible.
LOL. If that’s what makes you feel better.
It's like the Java professor telling me Java will never automatically wrap/unwrap primitives when they already released the version that did it a year or two prior to that class, and I was actively doing it.
Nope, because you’ve not actually described doing anything, You misunderstood a tech, when called on it, you dodge. You have not done anything you claim.
kernel too. You will find the actual code being compiled differs in the kernel. Through conditional compilation within a file, including different files in the build process based on the OS target, etc.
Its the same project, but that does not mean the source code used to build an iOS Darwin kernel or a macOS Darwin kernel are the same
We aren't talking about the compiled code, we were talking about the source..
Nope. We were talking about what’s running on devices. How the code differs. That the executing code, not the source code. Source code is designed to allow target specific customizations
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Untrue. And it applies not only to current projects but also spotting the BS handwaving you have offered so far.
Tough shit. I'll believe it when I see it. Several brand new AAA games I've grabbed in the last 12 months have worked OotB either natively or with some version of already available Proton on launch day. All the many early access indie games I've been playing also work just fine OotB. It's not like Proton needs to be updated or patched every time a new game is released. A surprising number of them with actual Linux native builds so I don't need to rely on Proton.
Nope. We were talking about what’s running on devices. How the code differs. That the executing code, not the source code. Source code is designed to allow target specific customizations (like macOS vs iOS).
You are just moving the goal posts. *I* was ne
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Several brand new AAA games I've grabbed in the last 12 months have worked OotB either natively or with some version of already available Proton on launch day.
As I said in the beginning. Higher profile games tend to get more immediate attention. That does not change the fact that some other games can wait for weeks before getting attention.
You are just moving the goal posts. *I* was never talking about the compiled code, because
Of your ignorance on the topic, repeatedly displayed in multiple ways. Your assertion that the kernel was the same between iOS and macOS was always utterly wrong.
Both compiled codebases are largely doing the exact same instructions. And the kernel is one of the multiple pieces that is (nowadays) exactly the same.
Nope. Again, its the same project but it does not generate the exact same code under iOS and macOS. There are platform specific additions and performance tuning.
No, I've known what they claim the entire time.
Nope.
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That does not change the fact that some other games can wait for weeks before getting attention.
Give recent, and real, examples. Because it hasn't happened.
Your assertion that the kernel was the same between iOS and macOS was always utterly wrong.
It is. And your continuance to argue against that fact shows just how little you know about current technology and how out of touch you are. You and your knowledge are no longer relevant.
There are platform specific additions and performance tuning.
Not as many as you think.
Which happens outside of Safari. Apple described their process
None of which mentions, or warns, that traffic like Passkey requests don't count as Safari. And "no single party — not even Apple — can see both who you are and what sites you're visiting" isn't true at all, because of exactly t
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That does not change the fact that some other games can wait for weeks before getting attention.
Give recent, and real, examples. Because it hasn't happened.
Again, you display your ignorance. From google: "it is a common experience for Linux gamers using the Wine compatibility layer or Proton when major updates for online multiplayer titles or live-service games break compatibility.
Why the Wait Happens
Breaking Updates: Large games with frequent or invasive anti-cheat and launcher updates (such as World of Warcraft, League of Legends, or Diablo IV) frequently change code that fails on non-Windows systems.
Development Cycle: While Wine development releases come
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Again, you display your ignorance. From google: "it is a common experience for Linux gamers using the Wine compatibility layer or Proton when major updates for online multiplayer titles or live-service games break compatibility.
Why the Wait Happens
Breaking Updates: Large games with frequent or invasive anti-cheat and launcher updates (such as World of Warcraft, League of Legends, or Diablo IV) frequently change code that fails on non-Windows systems.
Development Cycle: While Wine development releases come out biweekly, a fix for a specific broken game can require waiting for maintainers or community contributors to write, test, and merge a custom code patch."
Again relying on good ol' Google AI. Riot Games that require Vanguard (League of Legends) cannot be run in Linux at all (which is fine because fuck Tencent). Vanguard is not allowed in Linux and Vanguard will detect a virtual environment and refuse to work. The rest others rarely have the issue described. It does not happen as commonly as you suggest. And it doesn't happen to any of the MMOs or other live service games I play at all.
Desktop and mobile are not interchangeable, they each have unique requirements and performance tuning.
And I have never insinuated the final compiled products were. That doesn't
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Again relying on good ol' Google AI.
Nope, I’ve seen the delays as a player and a developer. Goggle matches my real work experience in this matter. That your real work experience may be different proves nothing, you simply may be playing games that get more immediate attention.
And I have never insinuated the final compiled products were.
LOL. That quite a bit of revisionism there. You: "Darwin, and the XNU kernel, are exactly the same across the entire Apple OS family - MacOS, iOS, watchOS, and tvOS. All devices/OS-specific optimizations come after those two.”
The kernel level has platform
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That your real work experience may be different proves nothing, you simply may be playing games that get more immediate attention.
I'm playing games that straight up don't need any attention to begin with.
That quite a bit of revisionism there. You: "Darwin, and the XNU kernel, are exactly the same across the entire Apple OS family - MacOS, iOS, watchOS, and tvOS. All devices/OS-specific optimizations come after those two.”
This is still true, and does not insinuate that the final compiled product is interchangeable with another final compiled product for a different target.
No one claimed there isn’t some common code.
Not just *some*, it's most of the code. Around 70%.
The operating systems are not the same.
No one claimed this.
Finding a bug in a feature is quite different than Apple lying about the feature.
That is assuming Apple classifies it as a bug, which they do not, which makes it a lie by omission. They know Private Relay in the browser can be bypassed in this manner. Passkeys are stored in the OS and, as far a
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I'm playing games that straight up don't need any attention to begin with.
That’s not true for any Windows game. They are inherently dependent upon updates to match Windows APIs, DirectX APIs, etc.
Not just *some*, it's most of the code. Around 70%.
Even 70% is far far from you original "are exactly the same”.
Finding a bug in a feature is quite different than Apple lying about the feature.
That is assuming Apple classifies it as a bug, which they do not, which makes it a lie by omission.
We’ll see, Apple has fixed other bugs that enabled exploits.
And the former happening doesn't mean the latter happened. Hence why they are separate.
Focus steal is a subset of losing focus. The example you offered describes losing focus.
However, sometimes it is from bad design. And in this case, it is.
It seems an opinion in this case.
You are mistaken that its not a problem under Windows. “Microsoft Windows-based systems use pop-up dialogue boxes which can steal focus from the current application. On versions of Microsoft Windows prior to Windows 7, there is a user setting that will by default prevent a cooperative application from stealing focus when launching another program or popping up a new window or dialogue box.[2] This same method does not work in Windows 7 or later.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ [wikipedia.org]... [wikipedia.org]
I do not care about anything older than Windows 10.
You got it backwards. What you claimed is what happenedin old Windows 10l It is Windows 10 and 11 that act otherwise to your clai
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That’s not true for any Windows game.
Yes, it is.
Even 70% is far far from you original "are exactly the same”.
God you are fucking retarded. 70% of the finished compiled products are the same. Within the 70% is the kernel, which is exactly the same across the board.
The example you offered describes losing focus.
No.
It seems an opinion in this case.
No.
You got it backwards. What you claimed is what happenedin old Windows 10l It is Windows 10 and 11 that act otherwise to your claim.
No.
Actually human/computer interaction has a lot of literature that says otherwise.
No.
You are speaking of prior to Windows 10. Windows 10 and 11 alls losing that focus.
They lost the user facing option and the older registry "hacks" because Microsoft hardcoded the feature to be always on.
The fact remains that the app could have done something to warn the user
Useless.
hidden the portion of the password already entered
Already does that and is useless.
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That’s not true for any Windows game.
Yes, it is.
Your ignorance is showing. Currently maintained games often require patches as new versions of windows and direct X come out. This can lead to changes needed in wine for example. And such changes will occur in higher profile games while lower profile games wait. You can deny other people’s experiences. You can deny Google’s findings. The fact remains I was one of the devs doing those periodic updates and despite Linux not being a target, I was testing under Wine and coding the changes to minimiz
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Currently maintained games often require patches as new versions of windows and direct X come out.
My entire Steam library begs to differ. Roughly 30-40% of them don't even use DirectX to begin with. Also, games do not require patches when new versions of DirectX ship unless they want to take advantage of new features.
I was a rareity doing so in the industry
It's not that rare anymore. Especially with the popularity of the Steam Deck.
The kernels different, each containing platform specific code.
Platform-specific kernel extensions don't count. They aren't part of the base kernel.
Details in previous posts prove otherwise.
No.
Your ignorance is showing again.
No.
You need to re-read that wiki.
No.
A silly opinion.
Not in this context.
Another silly opinion.
Not in this context.
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Currently maintained games often require patches as new versions of windows and direct X come out.
My entire Steam library begs to differ. Roughly 30-40% of them don't even use DirectX to begin with.
Again, you confuse your anecdotal experience with the larger community of gamers. As I told you, it depends on which games you play.
Also, games do not require patches when new versions of DirectX ship unless they want to take advantage of new features.
Backwards compatibility does not mean old games do not take advantage of newer directx features over time.
You are likely also considering only running an old binary. Things can get more complicated as you use newer compiler releases and linked to more modern versions of windows and directx libraries. Sometimes older APIs are deprecated, spitting out warnings, and you moderni
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Again, you confuse your anecdotal experience with the larger community of gamers.
It's all anecdotal. And I play a wider variety of games more often than most of the community.
Backwards compatibility does not mean old games do not take advantage of newer directx features over time.
Only if the devs feel like it, and by the time they come around to patching the game to take advantage, Proton will have already adapted.
You are likely also considering only running an old binary.
Nope. You sure like to assume a lot.
You confuse Mach, etc presenting a common API with a common internal implementation.
Did you have a stroke?
Yet some gamers have to wait weeks for Wine, etc to get a patch.
I didn't say it *never* happens ever. I said it *rarely* happens. And when it does happen, it's because either the developers of the game in question are bad at their jobs or their bosses are.
Yet macOS and iOS have different kernel
No.
Yet web apps have a notification letting them know when a focus steal occurs so they can deal with it appropriately.
Yeah, which is piss useless
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Again, you confuse your anecdotal experience with the larger community of gamers.
It's all anecdotal. And I play a wider variety of games more often than most of the community.
Except on one side we have your singular claim and on the other side we multiple claims and my experience supporting products that wine supported. Of which only one is necessary to prove you mistaken. That sometimes a game can be down for weeks. As google demonstrates.
Backwards compatibility does not mean old games do not take advantage of newer directx features over time.
Only if the devs feel like it, and by the time they come around to patching the game to take advantage, Proton will have already adapted.
Like wine, it sometimes takes weeks.
You are likely also considering only running an old binary.
Nope. You sure like to assume a lot.
Well it is hard to guess how you can be so mistaken so often.
You confuse Mach, etc presenting a common API with a common internal implementation.
Did you have a stroke?
No, that’s just a generous interpretation of the nonsense you have written. The API is after all the one thing that does remain consistent a
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Except on one side we have your singular claim and on the other side we multiple claims and my experience supporting products that wine supported. Of which only one is necessary to prove you mistaken.
Those people are probably morons like you. Community builds of Proton are built muuuch faster and include many things Valve does not. So even if a game updates and stops working on regular Proton, Proton-GE or Proton-CachyOS will still run the game 99% of the time.
That sometimes a game can be down for weeks.
I couldn't find any recent examples. Dragon Age: Inquisition had issues with regular Proton (because of badly coded EA launcher) but could be played just fine with GE. Cyberpunk 2077 had a lot of issues in Proton, but it also had a lot of basic is
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Those people are probably morons like you.
Nope. They simply run different games than you.
Community builds of Proton are built muuuch faster
Thank you for conceding official proton can have delays too.
I couldn't find any recent examples.
Not really. Not recently.
Yes, you seem to miss a lot on many topics.
Because you make the wrong assumptions and have gaps in your knowledge.
Nope. The gaps are consistently coming from you, and your myopic perspective.
I assume 'Mach, etc' was supposed to be MacOS?
Thank you for confirming your gaps.
Low profile games don't usually need the attention anyway, because they are more likely to ship Linux native builds or use more stable APIs that just already work fine in Proton.
LOL. You are getting quite desperate.
There is very little an app can do to assist the user in this.
An ignorant statement.
It needs to be handled at a higher level than app, like the OS.
An opinion.
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They simply run different games than you.
They don't.
Thank you for conceding official proton can have delays too.
Builds regularly come out for all of them. Not necessarily because a game is broken.
Yes, you seem to miss a lot on many topics.
The gaps are consistently coming from you, and your myopic perspective.
Nope.
Thank you for confirming your gaps.
Well, you either had a stroke that meant MacOS; or you're a retard referring to the old, obsolete, and quite shitty kernel that XNU is forked from, and isn't relevant, along with not understanding how to use 'etc' in a sentence. XNU != Mach.
An ignorant statement.
An opinion.
Neither. Apps have the least privileges and permissions. And since the OS is responsible for handle focus requests, it's the OS's job to handle focus stealing. The solutio
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They simply run different games than you.
They don't.
LOL.
Thank you for conceding official proton can have delays too.
Builds regularly come out for all of them. Not necessarily because a game is broken.
A straw man no one claimed.
Yes, you seem to miss a lot on many topics. The gaps are consistently coming from you, and your myopic perspective.
Nope.
LOL. The above demonstrates otherwise.
Thank you for confirming your gaps.
Well, you either had a stroke that meant MacOS; or you're a retard referring to the old, obsolete, and quite shitty kernel that XNU is forked from, and isn't relevant, along with not understanding how to use 'etc' in a sentence. XNU != Mach.
Thank you once again for confirming you have no idea what you are talking about. Mach is part of XNU.
Apps have the least privileges and permissions.
A red herring. The fact remains the app level in question gets a notification, and could do something to assist the user.
it's the OS's job to handle focus stealing.
An opinion.
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A straw man no one claimed.
Literally not a straw man.
The above demonstrates otherwise.
You don't even understand basic definitions.
Mach is part of XNU.
Not really. What they implement is so heavily modified that calling it Mach is fundamentally wrong. A derivative of Mach != Mach. That is like calling Linux Mint the same as Ubuntu.
The fact remains the app level in question gets a notification, and could do something to assist the user.
No.
An opinion.
No.
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. I do not give a fuck about your anecdotal experience.
You know what I do with people who bandy the word around like it enhances their argument?
Ignore them because that is their argument. Good work!
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. I do not give a fuck about your anecdotal experience.
You know what I do with people who bandy the word around like it enhances their argument?
Ignore them because that is their argument. Good work!
That's what someone losing an argument does, but, sure. Whatever you wanna think, bud.
Re: Employer created and managed Apple IDs (Score:1)
Which great software has Apple designed?
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Mac OS seems good, from my minimal usage. Good enough that I bought a Neo to fill the netbook-shaped hole in my roster. First time buying an Apple product with my own money. (You can see my decades of disparaging posts on that website Slashdot.)
Is it *great*? Probably not, if I tried going too far off the beaten path. And I'm sure there's tracking and telemetry there hiding. Even a bit of cloud promo. But compared to Windows? My doctor's telehealth portal doesn't like Linux, so that was out too.
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But compared to Windows? My doctor's telehealth portal doesn't like Linux, so that was out too.
Ouch. That's the rub indeed, people are getting fucked over by their "service" "providers". I'm able to use everything so far from Linux; the local hospital's telehealth and my bank's website will even work in Firefox, but I need to use Chromium (ungoogled is OK) to pay my bills. Otherwise I have to use the phone payment system, which of course is super duper easy actually but I'd still rather do it on the web.
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This doctor is fucking me over less than the other one, who engaged in straight-up fraudulent billing. Lack of Linux support is easier to deal with.
I was honestly expecting Chromium on Linux to work, not sure what specific components would be missing.
I feel blessed that it's this particular time Apple chose to release their netbook. Right when I needed Mac OS on the cheap. Really hoping they don't rug pull the support window, I could see myself using this Neo into 2033 and beyond.
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Both OSX and iOS are good. And if you're willing to lock yourself in the walled garden, the ability of laptop, tablet and phone to work together is very nice. I'm not so willing; in fact, I don't own any Apple hardware these days. But Apple should be lauded for their integrated system, and then excoriated for their paranoid money-grubbing which keeps them from allowing non-Apple systems into the garden, and for their inability to build their own secure-but-flexible cloud services.
Re: Employer created and managed Apple IDs (Score:2)
iOS is terrible, I am upset every time I use it. The interface is trash, Android is at least twice as discoverable.
OSX is OK but the interface is worse than the OS it was made from.
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Apple started as a hardware company, with network services coming MUCH later.
Google were always a network first company.
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If they want to let employees use a personal ID for authentication, that's great. As long as the workspace area is partitioned off and they don't at all cross paths. There's a reason why Apple isn't competing with Microsoft or Google offering a unified online workspace.
Re:Employer created and managed Apple IDs (Score:4, Interesting)
Proof yet again that Apple does not design products and services for businesses. They focus is on a particular user experience which has allowed them to get enterprise customers through creatives and execs.
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Proof yet again that Apple does not design products and services for businesses. They focus is on a particular user experience which has allowed them to get enterprise customers through creatives and execs.
Sort of, but creatives is not just artists. There are also engineering communities that prefer Mac hardware. But for stereotypical office personnel mainly using email, the web, word processor, and spreadsheets. Sure, Apple isn’t targeting them.
To more accurately classify things, Apple doesn’t play in low end commodity markets. They sell to people who have a need for greater value.
This apple id problem is not a deal breaker to any org with the common sense to require a new apple id using th
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They also sell to people who have a need for status symbols. ;-)
The logical first step for sensitive files is to prevent external IDs from having access. Does Apple sharing have the ability to prevent access from IDs external to the org?
To me the biggest value Apple brings to the table is the hardware lifecycle. Their stuff typically is supported for a decent number of years and OS performance remains acceptable.
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They also sell to people who have a need for status symbols. ;-)
No argument there.
The logical first step for sensitive files is to prevent external IDs from having access. Does Apple sharing have the ability to prevent access from IDs external to the org?
I’d say that’s a user thing. One needs the ability to share files with both people inside the org and outside. Perhaps even files that are confidential.
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IMO you cannot rely on users without having safeguards in place. Mistakes will happen plus there is always the threat of malicious behavior.
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IMO you cannot rely on users without having safeguards in place. Mistakes will happen plus there is always the threat of malicious behavior.
Trust but verify. Creating the Apple ID with using your new company email should be part of the onboarding process. Matter of fact the IT folks that created the email could also create apple, google, and microsoft accounts needed.
I have never signed into iCloud on my iPhone (Score:2)
I still get dunned you need to accept the iCloud terms,
You need to Sign into iCloud to finish the setup.
Your device has not been backed up to iCloud, Accept terms and Backup now.
I suspect Apple is doing backups to the cloud anyway. After all it is the customers data that is of value to Apple.
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After all it is the customers data that is of value to Apple.
While I don't have any personal knowledge of what Apple does/doesn't do behind the scene, the main reason for the iCloud backup stuff is to keep you tied to their ecosystem and buying products. They want to make it easier for you to buy a new phone, or computer, and just have it pick up where the old one left off.
Someone at my company did this (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
since it's illegally preinstalled on all Win11 PCs
Nothing illegal about it.
You're example is more of a combination of employee and employer incompetence rather than Microsoft's design choices. Microsoft's design choices can be managed and "solved" by users, Apple's can only be fixed by Apple and only if they feel like it. Sharepoint and OneDrive can be used together very easily without accidentally doing what you just described.
BYOD DOA Without Provenance (Score:1)
The knight says... (Score:3)
Apple chose ... poorly.
Cleaning this up is not likely to be especially easy, and doing the forensics to determine what people had access to confidential data after they were no longer employed, and what damage that may have done to the company, is going to take a lot of time.
unprofessional (Score:2)
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I get that apple products work for people who don't know what they are doing and only have one computer, but Apple has never been very good at anticipating the needs of the professional. I'm frankly surprised some companies use them.
I've been a professional since the 1970's, And despite your monolithic Viewpoint, I use all three OS' Professionally. I perhaps know a lot more than most people, but that's beside teh point, I do know ye know nought
If employees have been storing classified information in the cloud, it is as bad an idea doing it on any platform. It's a security breach, possibly dissemination, and is punishable by 20 years per infraction.
You have no idea what you are talking about. That didn't stop you though.
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I use all three OS' Professionally.
With how you type, I doubt it.
It's a security breach, possibly dissemination, and is punishable by 20 years per infraction.
Only if it's willful and done on purpose.