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GNOME GUI

GNOME-steaders 106

Posted by CmdrTaco from the stuff-to-read dept.
Gulthek writes " An interesting, if short, article about Gnome and its connection with Red Hat, its potential future, and the future of Linux in general. "
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GNOME-steaders More

GNOME-steaders

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  • wmaker (Score:1)

    by Yarn ( 75 )
    Uh, I dont know why this is *here*, but if you want you can make the dock single click, its only a bit of code...
  • For KDE or GNOME. And then I'll still probably not care. May I remind you of those Famous Words [slashdot.org]? And poor GNUstep [gnustep.org] doesn't even get more than the token namecheck amidst these silly turf wars.

    J Pingouin Braithwaite-Guevara, proud mwm user. I don't need no steenkin' "environment" :)

    --

  • > "In the free [software] world, we've been able to do things the right way, because we've been able to take the time," de Icaza says. "We haven't had to worry about deadlines or release dates, and that's given us a chance to create better things...."

    I have great respect for Miguel, and wish GNOME the best, but I have to say that the Linux World announcement of GNOME 1.0 was clearly a marketing-driven release date; that's the only possible explanation of its official release with so many instabilities. It's sad to see this happen with free software, but that's life in the big city.

    (Linus' release of 2.2.0 with the brown-bag bug -- ldd core -- was, OTOH, not motivated by any marketing concern but simply because Linus was getting a little burned out after two years of 2.1....)

    Craig

  • >I stopped reading when he said "Granted, Torvalds hasn't shown any signs of handing over his red hat..."

    Note that this is a reference to Papa Smurf's red hat (the other smurfs have mostly white ones), not Red Hat the company. I did a double-take when I saw that too...

  • A number of people seem to think that the article wasn't very good. I didn't think that it was too bad. The "red hat" line was the worst one. The bit about Papa Smurf and the village smurfberry supply was a bit fluffy, but I thought it drew a nice analogy. It doesn't make any denigrating comments about KDE (notable for a GNOME article). It mentions that GNOME is, in part, commercially funded yet is a free project.

    The biggest complaints about the article seem to be about the remark about the "application-rich" Windows NT. That comment is, in many ways, true. Windows in general has been around longer than any major Linux push for the desktop and more people write programs for the Windows platform. The next quote, from IDC, "If they give Linux a complete look and feel, but if the applications aren't there, it still won't grow," is true but misleading. The application base is small when compared to Windows' base, but GNOME's is growing. I think that was the worst of the article, and it wasn't that bad. The article as a whole was pretty good.



    --Phil (If only they'd waited a little longer for 1.0...)
  • What size?
  • What is you problem?

    It seems you didn't do your homework! Even in the Linux kernel, there were quite often large chunks of code cut out and thrown away! Look at the TCP/IP stack along with the rest of the networking code in 2.0 versus 2.2, look at the memory management subsystem (since 0.5 ist was completely exchanged at least three times!)

    I'm sure there are lots of other instances of that, but i don't know them for I'm no kernel hacker.

    And that KDE GNOME issue... they're both here to stay and cause holy flamewars, just like emacs and vi... so what?

  • Try to read the messages before you reply to them. Tim Moore talked about KDE 2.0, not 1.1. KDE 2.0 is not realesed yet, while KDE 1.1 is not fully Open Source(TM) compliant.

    This makes Gnome 1.0 the first fully Open Source(TM) compliant desktop for Linux.
  • I agree, it's tough to compile Gnome on non-RedHat systems. I mean, my automated build script fails to compile one of the packages almost once a week! I mean, c'mon! What are these people thinking??

    [ that was a ( possibly shoddy ) attempt at humor for the more trigger-happy members of the audience. No! Don't shoot! ]

    Daniel
  • Umm, window dressing is the purpose of a desktop environment. That's not necessarily a bad thing. :-)

    Daniel
  • You bet it's hard to compile GNOME on non-RedHat distributions. I attempted to compile 1.0.1 on my SuSE 5.3 box, and it was all too complicated, and then the result was all too buggy. Anyway, since when do Linux applications put locale data in /usr/lib/locale, instead of /usr/share/locale? That was the most annoying "feature".
  • By making a compromise over what you say is the least important thing, we show exceedingly poor judgement?

    What's letf to a poor sap that makes a compromise on something that matters? A firing squad at dawn?

    You can argue one thing or the other:

    Or by making a compromise over something important, we show poor judgement, or by making a compromise over something that doesn't matter we show pragmatism and foresight.

    The other combinations make no sense.

  • It doesn't say the only fully open source desktop, just the first. The GNOME project started before the QPL, and the GNOME project has made a 1.0 release whereas the Qt 2.0 based KDE is still in development, AFAIK.

  • If I want to use piece of their code in my program, say ~100 lines of code, do I have to distribute their entire multimegabyte source and have an install script delete all but the ~100 lines I need to use?

    The way I understand it the QPL only lets me enhance their (potentially commercial) product, it does not allow me to reuse their code in an independent and unrelated program that happens to require a small piece of functionallity that they developed.

  • If you don't care if linux doesn't have a unifying desktop, I can understand that POV. But to say gnome was established to set a standard desktop is crazy. Say what it is-it's an alternative to kde which came first, more stable and on more linux distros. Gnome causes division which makes things more confusing to the new user. Now if you feel that linux is all about lots of choices and that it's not intended for people who are computer illiterate, then gnome is a great thing.
    oh btw, does anyone want AOL on gnome/linux?
  • I stopped reading when he said "Granted, Torvalds hasn't shown any signs of handing over his red hat..."

    Ugh. There's so much drivel and fluff out there, I long for something substantial and informative...

  • Oh! (Score:1)

    by Booker ( 6173 )
    Well, in that case, it's more funny than stupid, I guess. :-) I wonder if they had any idea that they were making an allusion to one of the leading Linux distro companies. Was it clever or coincidence?
  • That's like when Internet Explorer for Unix was announced, last year, there was an article or press release that said, "Finally, an alternative to lynx on Solaris!"
  • > where the author shows that compiling the source
    > on a non-Redhat system can be daunting.

    FUD. Of course, compiling beta stuff depending on beta libs can be daunting, RH or not. I compiled every release from GNOME 0.99.3 up to 1.0.1 on a SuSE 6.0.1, along with gtk+, imlib and ORBit. I had not a single problem other than imlib needing another version of libpng (no 1.0.2 IIRC) and occasional troubles with patches, as *.png files wouldn't be updated and you had to get the whole tarball again. Sure, some things went wrong, but these were caused by stupid mistakes of mine. Oh, and with the misguided pre-1.0 I had to change some ifdefines as it didn't expect to be compiled against a gtk 1.2 release. Nothing that anyone with rudimentary knowledge of C can't fix. I must know my C knowledge is growing, but from a low level. In fact, following the GNOME mailing list, there were *at least* as much people with problems on RH 5.2 as with SuSE 6.0, probably simply because SuSE is more up do date

  • He didn't say it was the first. In fact, later in the article The author said "Indeed, while GNOME may not earn credit as the first GUI for the Linux system". HE said it's the first fully open source graphical user interface for the Linux operating system. Granted, I thought that title went to twm. Oh well.

  • quote from article:

    >how many users will be willing to abandon the >application-rich environment of the Windows NT
    >desktop for the stripped-down virtues of the >Linux operating system.

    Stripped down? You suppose Sam has tried Linux in any form?
    Oh, well, someone probably told him so.....
    Mean while back at the ranch I just got gnome and e to run on SuSE 6 and I am as happy as a pig in shit! (or whatever) - go to:
    http://ifmpc118.ifm.uni-hamburg.de/gnome.html

    this is definitly NOT strippped

  • Why? (Score:1)

    by N1KO ( 13435 )
    Did you type that stuff just now?
  • They make your desktop less dull. Its like the stupid colors on the iMac.

    Not: GTK, GNOME and E all have themes.
  • Those gnome-rpms in starbucks are compiled against glib-2.1 (I guess you knew that). Well, I bet people have them on their redhat systems right now, using rpms they made from the SRPMS on redhat.

    I think gnome needs a little system to accept RPMS from other people. I have made gnome 1.0.3 rpms, fixed specs, and all of that, but were to send them. This might be a real solution to most, as they don't have time to recompile stuff on there computer.
  • I thought this rumor had recently gotten squashed. Not that it matters to me whether he gets paid or not, but I thought his GNOME work was strictly voluntary.

    Bravery, Kindness, Clarity, Honesty, Compassion, Generosity

  • Why? (Score:1)

    by doom ( 14564 )
    Look, take it easy...

    > Almost every article about GNOME has to put down
    > KDE in some way or another. Why?

    Because journalists are stupid, sleazy creatures
    that need to have an "angle" before they turn
    in a story. So first you get the hero worship
    stuff about the great Linus Torvalds, the little
    hacker that could, and then you get the Linus vs.
    RMS wars (even though the differences between
    them are about as huge as the People's Front of
    Judea and the Judean People's Front), and so now
    you're starting to see the KDE vs. Gnome shit
    played up, because they think they've *got* to
    play *something* up. (And you know what? Now
    that we've been through the "Isn't Linux Great?"
    cycle, now we can expect the "Oh, that Linux
    hype has been overdone" cycle... something to
    look forward to, eh?).

    Anyway, take a look at the gnome FAQ some time
    (http://www.gnome.org/gnomefaq/), under the
    question "Why not KDE?". The information is out
    of date (this was written when QT was still
    proprietary) but even so, it's pretty reasonable:

    > The GNOME people like the KDE people. We think
    > that this difference between ourselves is
    > unfortunate, and we do not like having to dwell
    > on these differences.
    >
    > This matter has been hashed out time and time
    > again on the gnome list. Asking this question on
    > the gnome list is discouraged behaviour. If you
    > want to go somewhere and start a flamewar on
    > this topic, then please do it somewhere far far
    > away where we don't have to listen to you.
    >
    > GNOME will probably use components ported from
    > the KDE project; conversely, wherever possible
    > GNOME components can be freely used by KDE. We
    > would like to see as much cooperation as is
    > possible between the two projects.

    Do these people sound like they're out for blood
    or something?

  • Uh, I dont know why this is *here*, but if you want you can make the dock single click, its only a bit of code...

    Where is *here*?

    Is the code actually available, or is that just an invitation to dive in and change it? I might be willing to, if I can dig up the free time.

    (Also, have to get around to grabbing the 0.5 x version, still sitting at 0.20.1 meself.)

    But I would definitely like to see that.

    Oh, and BTW: your homepage (http://pendragon.ex.ac.uk/~yarn/ [ex.ac.uk]) is broken; just gives a "Cannot connect to server."
    --
    - Sean
  • Okay, after having read most of this rant (that which I could reasonably follow), I have a suggestion to make about KDE and GNOME. If everyone's so up in arms about the QPL, and the licensing restrictions of Qt, why not revive the Harmony project? Or, God-forbid, write a Qt wrapper for GTK+/GNOME that would seamlessly integrate all KDE apps into a GNOME desktop without any hassle? I'd not mind working on a project like this, assuming I could get both up and running on my system with no hassle.

    All this in-fighting is pointless and stupid. There are two DEs on Linsux (and the rest of Unix, as this code can reasonably be compiled anywhere... well... sorta...). Deal with it, or don't. If you don't like it, change it. But, most importantly, shut the hell up.

    --C
  • GNOME is the first GUI for the Linux system. Yep. I guess before that all we had was Lynx and Emacs. Thank you Miguel!
  • Oops, I missed the "not."

    BTW, does anyone have a Phillips screwdriver I could borrow?

  • gnome-core-1.0.3 and related goodies were released over the weekend, and yet I haven't been able to find any RPMs of this stuff until, today...sort of. Of course, since gnome 1.0.1 is completely bug-free, this shouldn't really be an issue I guess.

    I say "sort of" in the last paragraph because the latest pre-release stuff (RedHat 5.9, aka "Starbuck") that just got leaked onto /. includes these updates, but these haven't made their way back to ftp.gnome.org or some place where you have a chance in the firey place of actually getting them.

    Hint, hint.

    King Babar

  • Is the next release of your comment "Why?" going to include paragraph separations? I got kind of dizzy about three inches and had to stop reading even tho I enjoy your style of disjointed ranting.

  • Why is this happening the way it is? Why is linux slashing its own wrists? Once upon a time everyone in the community looked and worked towards a common goal.. to provide an OS that was functional, stable and for the people. Everyone had a hand in it.. developers, even the users that most of you disrespect half the time.. you don't have to be a geek or a coder to help make linux take over that other os.. sure developers provide what is needed for users to want to be here.. but it's more users tellin their pals hey this stuff is cool and its much better than win*. Now things are more a game of cut throat right here inside what was once a 'community' of folks with a common goal... What's going on here? Almost every article about GNOME has to put down KDE in some way or another.. WHY? Is KDE not a DE on linux? does it not provide a comfortable environment for users coming from windows to work in.. heck it's pretty similar to windows in look AND in feel... yah they use a not so GPL'd toolkit.. but does that change the fact that there are tons of developers writing what they feel to be a FREE environment for linux? Are there not tons of folks writing various applications for KDE in the thoughts of providing useful GUI tools for KDE? All of the developers believe in what their doing as much as the GNOME developers do.. ALL are working towards the common goal of making linux better for the USER, but GNOME folks and ole de Icaza have to take cheap shots at KDE. Why? Are KDE developers inhuman? Do any of them deserve this? No. I see on the KDE page they even had in their news the release of GNOME 1.0, and in that post asking Mr. de Icaza to tell them of their 'technical deficiencies', looks to me they're pretty supportive and want to correct things that may or may not be deficient. Now today i read this article.. the first opensource GUI for linux.. implying KDE isnt thus slamming it more.. KDE isnt opensource? Well heck.. what in the world is this stuff i get out of the source directory on kde.org? sure looks like c/c++ code to me.. yes i do believe their source is OPEN. Can i make modifications to KDE? Yes you bet you bottom i can. Maybe i like how they have removeable menubars can i just take that? Yes i can, i can take those widgets right out of there. The claimed problem is with QT, i personally dont see problem with it. Heck most of you should be happy for QT licensing.. they make it so that you HAVE to create opensource (free) applications or you pay their grand fee. So you cant take from the qt library.. but you can submit patches and get stuff included on upcoming releases. KDE still not open source? Granted KDE _not_ linked to QT library would be pretty much useless, but KDE in and of itself IS opensource it is free i can take it and do whatever i want with it. Yes i know im venting.. but heck all i see is GNOME GNOME GNOME, well that is great, deserves every bit of attention as the effort put into making it a wonderful environment, but that doesnt constitute beating KDE into the gutter everytime you get the chance.. i believe 2 DE's can live in the linux world just fine.. who cares who uses one more than the other.. what you should care about is you have the choice to run one or the other.. GNOME is so caught up on 'winning' or something that it must take every 'in the publics face oppertunity' to kick KDE. This is crazy guys/gals KDE is part of the darn effort to make linux more than what it is.. and your ready to cut it off.. think of it like brothers twins even if you want.. 1 is KDE one is GNOME.. and linux community is .. thats right DADDY.. tell me.. if one brother is any more or less successful than the other is DADDY any more or less lifted up.. each brother isnt going to do the exact same thing.. they both do their own thing and do it well (no body is perfect) and both make DADDY proud.. now would it be right for daddy to say hey.. i dont like what you do KDE son... so any time folks ask DADDY or GNOME SON how they're doing DADDY/GNOME take that as an oppertunity to kick and bash the other son... pretty sad if you ask me.. they're isn't any need for it.. sorry i could go on for days i think.. stuff is built up.. it's just sickining to watch you guys destroy yourself... Hey yah.. how many of you have friends? most of you right.. whether real life.. or on the net i dont care.. but folks you call friends... any of you ever have that one 'pal' that no matter what he had to make himself look better by putting you or the rest of the group down.. you didnt like it did you? pissed you off huh? Think about it.. it's the same darn thing going on here..

    note: yes i know my grammar sucks, and i know my spelling sucks. thank you for ignoring my mistakes.
  • yes i did *shrug*
  • 'Once upon a time everyone in the community looked and worked towards a common goal'

    Well it's nice how you quote me out of context to help you rebuttle. Seeing as you didn't get the whole quote.. here it is:

    'Once upon a time everyone in the community looked and worked towards a common goal.. to provide an OS that was functional, stable and for the people'

    There we go, see it now.. it's more than just XEmacs, egcs or kde or gnome.. it's the big picture of making this OS succeed and succeed marginally.. to whip the pants of the proprietary os's out there.. now gnome is rockin in the press.. so what if another FREE environment sprung up totally gpl'd and wooped the pants off of gnome.. and was featured in the press all over the place and everytime they were they beat up GNOME.. would that be any more right than gnome beating up KDE because _some_ feel its not 'free' ? no sure wouldnt.. then there would be 3 to choose from..

    'If a common goal is desireable, the KDE people should start working on GNOME'

    Why? So we can be like other os's with OS's with one unified desktop, taking away our choices once again?

    'they might as well write Win32 code'

    Would that be non-free? wine is a win32 compatible library.. if i wrote an application based on the opensource, free library of wine, and did it all win32 would that make me bad? come on.

    'Hey, why do we argue with Microsoft fanatics? Windows comes free with every PC'

    Yes it comes with every PC, but free? That said then you disagree with the MS refund scheme right? since it comes free then there is no refund (according to you) .. but we all know that we are getting charged for the OS because the company putting it on the pc was charged and we incur the charges and want a refund... KDE dont have secret charges as you seem to be classifying it with.. neither does QT. You and some others just dont want accept QT. that is fine, but dont belittle the efforts of the otherside of the 'community' that IS working to make it all better.
  • Well like i said im not a writer *shrug*

    if i could throw up C code representing my feelings i would.. but i dont think it would be any more readable.

  • see you all keep going on and on about this.. KDE v*.* is OPEN SOURCE, as i said before KDE would be usless without QT library, BUT that doesn't make KDE non opensource just because the underlying library isnt. But you all don't care about thet, first its open source, next it's gpl.. because the new qpl fits the OSD fine.. it's even listed on opensource.org.. but hold on.. now we gotta find another nit pick right? some other way to keep KDE from getting the respect/support it deserves? See i for one dont give a flying ... well you know.. heh.. GNOME can prosper as can KDE, and the next DE that comes out... be happy.. all these go towards the benefit of linux do they not? Does all this inhouse bickering, gnome's media fud on kde.. all this crap.. does it help the sucess of linux? no.. sure dont...

  • Looks like one of a few articles I to have ran across that gines KDE the credit it deserves. No doubt its heavily used, alot of hard work has went into KDE.. as I've stated earlier it's really crappy to be dumping on such a good product.

    No this isn't a 'ohh poor lil kde guys' thing.. they deserve a little respect. And I'm not dumping on GNOME it too deserves it's respect.. it just has a bit further to go.. but its looking good so far =)

  • wmaker (Score:1)

    by glub ( 28758 )
    If WindowMaker just had single click capability, it would totally rule!

  • poll (Score:1)

    by Friddy ( 29050 )
    interesting indeed

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