Netscape 4.6 212
Netscape 4.6
has silently appeared on the netscape ftp servers. Looks like a bugfix release. D00D! sent us the release notes.
The shortest distance between two points is under construction. -- Noelie Alito
Re:Too bad USGOV/NOAA "standardizing" on NS (Score:1)
The point is, no matter how good you are as a sysadmin, you *can't fix NT*. And an "Enterprise OS" that typically can't even handle hot-plugging the *mouse* is just a joke.
Mozilla Features (Score:1)
Mozilla Features (Score:1)
Jeff Knox
(Why does slashdot keep logging me out, and it wont mail me my password)
url completion (Score:1)
Anyway, I remember a discussion on slashdot around the time either a 4.0x or 4.5 was released, with someone saying that url completion was removed on UNIX versions of Netscape because it didn't fit the 'user mentality.' Anyone has any thoughts on this?
AC
Re:Mozilla Features (Score:1)
Useful features to be sure. I can't comment on whether either is on the feature list. However, with the new emphasis on scriptability in Mozilla, feature two (save entire page) is just a Simple Matter of Programming(TM) [insert winking emoticon here].
The odd thing I find about 'print selection' on IE5, is that while they have added this feature, they still have no print preview. Puzzling.
I also note that IE5's implementation of 'save web page' is _evil_. First off, they rewrite (pretty-print) the HTML page that you save, and that is the wrong thing to do (by default).
However, worse: in doing the re-writing they add a DOCTYPE to the page whether or not the page qualifies for that DTD -- the average user will not know what the DOCTYPE means, and for the most part will adopt it, thus propagating meaningless DOCTYPE around the web -- very evil.
And, in doing the re-writing, they add:
|META CONTENT="text/html; charset=windows-1252" HTTP-EQUIV=content-type|
Pure evil.
OPERA IS COMING (Score:1)
Re:Too bad USGOV/NOAA "standardizing" on NS (Score:1)
Re:128 bit version? (Score:2)
Then again, don't take my word, I haven't downloaded a copy since 4.51 came out.
AC
Re:Mozilla! (Score:3)
Excellent point! There's a classic design rule-of-thumb: "Be strict in sending and tolerant in receiving". The problem (to some degree) is that the 'strict in sending' part of the bargain has been dropped on the floor by various WYSIWYG HTML editors, and well-intentioned authors. Given user expectations, this forces a parser/layout engine to be extremely (even perversely) tolerant. Hence, not as easy as it seems.
It's those pesky users. If nobody used the product, then nobody would expect it to work ;).
xzoom (Score:1)
Also, if you get really bored you can get nifty hall of mirrors effects with it.
Re:G2 player? (Score:1)
Re:Netscape 4.6 Release Notes (Score:1)
My few cents, running on Linux, libc5:
Bozos still haven't got the graphics right under monochrome X. They're negative, so, for example, pictures of Tux show him with a black tummy and white wings. Every other X app I've got exhibits the proper behavior in this regard.
Two binaries with standalone? Looks like it: netscape and netscape-dynMotif. The latter won't run on my (Motifless) system, so I've bzip2'd it to save space. If everything's still working in a week, I'll rm the thing.
Speaking of space: with netscape-dynMotif compressed, df is showing that my Navigator standalone installation is taking up about 15 000 blocks.
Re:G2 player? (Score:1)
There WILL be soon a G2 Player for All Linux/Unix variants.. (but sadly, no G2 Plus version)
Hetz
Re:"Various bug fixes" (Score:1)
It (4.6) does seem to have fixed the extremely broken dropdown menus on forms. Selecting an option from a dropdown no longer prevents subsequent text box input -- that alone was worth the price I paid -- oops, it was free, wasn't it (gratuitous barb at people who gripe about the quality of software for which they are expected to pay only the time required to download and install it). 'twould have been nice if they'd have included that nice little tidbit of information.
Netscape 4.6 Release Notes (Score:3)
For anyone wondering what's changed in NS 4.6:
http://home.netscap e.com/eng/mozilla/4.6/relnotes/unix-4.6.html [netscape.com]
For what it's worth, it does seem to render a little faster, but then I'm an impressionable litte sprite.
Re:netscape (Score:1)
Re:url completion (Score:1)
If it were added, I'd allow it if it was shutoff-able in preferences...
Two things (Score:1)
I get the most crashes (well, hangs actually) when I have Java enabled. I have decided that having little scrolling news items and whatnot aren't worth it, so I disale that..
Also, make sure you are running the correct version for your distribution of Linux! The libc5 version probably won't work very well on a glibc2 system, and vice-versa. You have to go get the 'unsupported' Linux 2.0 version..
but at 62 Hz? (Score:1)
- A.P.
--
"One World, One Web, One Program" - Microsoft Promotional Ad
Re:new browser... (Score:1)
What makes me laugh is people who seem to WANT their eye to travel 16" back and forth across a screen while reading. Until most people have 19" monitors, please keep your browser windows at about 800x600, unless you find sites that are broken at displaying text, such as the new DejaNews.
Netscape Product Archive (Score:1)
Netscape Product Archive [netscape.com]
We keep *almost* everything available.
I want to die peacefully in my sleep as my grandfather did...
Re:128 bit version? (Score:2)
FWIW, if you poke around you might notice that the "export" version is no longer 40 bit encryption.
It's now 56bit...
I want to die peacefully in my sleep as my grandfather did...
Re:Memory usage (Score:1)
As a proud Maytag shareholder, I resent seeing "Hoover" and "Microsoft" in the same
Spell checker? (Score:1)
I just noticed the spell check button is not available when composing a message. Did I mess something up, or did they change this?
More browser bloat! bleah (Score:1)
What I want is a graphical browser that has java capabilities, can do frames and secure transactions. That's all. fast and furious.
No spell checking, no email, no newsreader, no html editor, no graphics editor, no auto complete. Does anyone make this?!?!?!?
Why do they just keep getting bigger and slower? Is it that hard to program a small FAST browser?? without all that intgerated crap?
I've tried Opera, Lynx (too hard to find text only web pages anymore), netscape, explorer...are there any others out there for Windows/Mac/Linux that fits this bill?
----
"Wars, conflict, it's all business. One murder makes a
villain. Millions a hero. Numbers sanctify."
Re:Mozilla! (Score:1)
Re:G2 player? (Score:1)
Re:My Solution: kmail (Score:2)
My Solution: I create a 2nd account just for browsing. That way when my browser crashes it does not interfere with the messenger email client.
I started using kmail (version 1.0.17 is stabe enough to use) so that when Netscape crashes it doesn't trash my email. I also wrote a shell script that cleans things up after a crash to make things easier.
You're right about MS -- credit where credit is due, IE is a better browser. It has some annoying features, but at least it works.
TedC
Re:Mozilla! (Score:3)
It sounds like they're doing it right, which is a good thing. Netscape got so caught up in competing with MS that their product suffered. This is the main reson that I think Linus should just ignore MS/Mindcraft for the time being.
Pardon my ignorance, but I can't see what's so difficult about writing a browser. It's basically a TCP/IP client with an HTML parser and an image renderer. What's the hard part that takes so long? I know the people working on it are all good programmers, so there must be some hidden "tarpit" that I don't know about.
TedC
Do this. (Score:4)
MOZILLA_NO_ASYNC_DNS=True
export MOZILLA_NO_ASYNC_DNS
More info in the readme in
This stops the dns helper from starting. When I did it, Netscape got a LOT faster at dns lookups. Now I guess it just uses the nameservers I specified in
If you still think Netscape sucks, try the latest KFM which is not too shabby and renders pages very quickly. Look at Freshmeat on Netscape then try it with KFM. All those bloody tables render faster in KFM. Gawd, I can't wait for Mozilla.
Groucho
Why 4.0x? (Score:1)
new browser... (Score:3)
what we need is browser makers to stop trying to make HTML do exactly the same stuff as you can do with DTP programs (ie get pixel perfect layout control).
HTML isnt meant to look exactly the same on every computer. it is meant to lay content out in the best way for your system.
makes me laugh... sites that set their sites up for 640x480 screens.. then running them in 1280x1024 or so...
smash
Re:Mozilla! (Score:1)
The early code for communicator 5 was what was first released so some of the code from version 4 should be there. It's still downloadable as 'classic Mozilla'. I believe it had the configurable chrome too. But it was than replaced with the current incarnation of Mozilla and the chrome had to be built into it again.
Anyway, everything seems to be heading in the right direction. Outside development is starting to pick up in addition to the steady development going that's going on. For example, a new project has been started to add MathML to mozilla. Cool! We just might get MathML, finally.
narbey
NS is a good alternate to NS (Score:2)
128 bit version? (Score:1)
It IS stable. (Score:1)
Yes, I wish a mozilla beta was out, but this is finally usable, and I don't have to use that ugly
kfm browser, which fills my home directory with junk, and can't handle cookies properly.
Re:Too bad USGOV/NOAA "standardizing" on NS (Score:1)
Nt is stable, it's my fault it crashes.
Nt is stable, it's my fault it crashes.
Nt is stable, it's my fault it crashes.
Nt is stable, it's my fault it crashes.
Nt is stable, it's my fault it crashes.
(I'm starting to believe it...)
Nt is stable, it's my fault it crashes.
Nt is stable, it's my fault it crashes.
Use the glibc2 version if you can! (Score:2)
the glibc2 version will be much more stable on these systems than the libc5 version.
I'm not sure why it's still in the unsupported section - it works better than the libc5 version.
Mozilla has nothing to do with Communicator 4.x (Score:2)
Re:Redhat 6.0 and Netscape (Specifically glibc2.1) (Score:3)
Re:Netscape 4.6 Release Notes(Not faster?) (Score:1)
Re:What are Linus doing? (Score:1)
As soon as they switched to Mozilla they should have made all future releases of their product based on their open source work. When Netscape are trying to make a success of their open source efforts it makes no sense to plough all their money into a closed source effort.
And to add to your point about Linux. There are a lot more developers in the Linux community than Mozilla have got and all Linux kernels are open source so work on the 2.3 series can get integrated in the 2.2 series if the feature is too important to wait until 2.4
Put it this way: no one (well not many people) complain about Linux having both a stable and development kernel but even the Mozilla developers consider it a bad idea wasting their time on 4.x as the layout engine used in this browser is going to be replaced with NGlayout (Gecko) with the Mozilla release anyway.
--
Re:What are Netscape doing? (Score:1)
Now please Netscape give up on 4.x before everyone starts looking elsewhere for their browsers.
--
Re:Mozilla At One and what it says ... (Score:1)
--
What are Netscape doing? (Score:3)
Also why 4.6? I can't see anything different to 4.5 so it should have been version 4.52
--
Netscape is pretty stable for me (Score:1)
Ja.
-Paul
Re:Nix on base64! (Score:1)
A pathetic attempt at trying to force eveyone to use NS for their email (much like Eudora tried which Eudora Lite not doing UUEncoding but Eudora Pro doing so.
My recommendation: use a proper email program, instead of a monstrosity that tries to everything at once and fails miserably.
Re:Mozilla! Baloney!! (Score:1)
The real problem is that there are still two major areas that need fixing in the Unix version before it is usable:
1. The scrolling performance is utterly horrible, with lots of gray flicker and flashing.
2. The form widgets using Gtk have major problems. I don't blame them, sometimes it's hard to get Gtk to behave in some way other than its hardcoded defaults, but in any case this needs a lot of work.
I've heard that neither of these problems exist on the windows version, although I've never seen it first-hand.
I personally can't wait to dump netscape and use start using mozilla.
Re:ns 4.6 (Score:1)
Re:Too bad USGOV/NOAA "standardizing" on NS (Score:1)
Messenger replacement (Score:1)
Anyway, I've been looking for a new mail client. It should handle attachments properly (that means Eudora is out!), should have IMAP4 functionality, and be compatible with PGP. Some clients I've looked at:
XFMail
Postilion
Pine
Mahogany
Vienna
Embla
Simeon
Mulberry
Of these, Mahogany looks really cool, but I can't find the Win32 version! Any comments?
Re:If you are looking for a good Win32 email clien (Score:1)
Pegasus just ain't what it used to be (Score:1)
Re:"Various bug fixes" (Score:1)
Redhat 6.0 and Netscape (Specifically glibc2.1) (Score:1)
Jeff Haskovec
MathML in mozilla (Score:1)
Re:You just said it: (Score:1)
Re:My Solution: Don't use Netscape for anything! (Score:1)
Re:True, but IE crash does not kill OE (Score:1)
Memory usage (Score:1)
USER PID %CPU %MEM SIZE RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND
plm 889 5.4 24.5 24172 15572 p4 S 15:52 0:28
plm 890 0.0 5.5 16416 3540 p4 S 15:52 0:00 (dns helper)
I am actually running a nameserver myself anyway. How can the (dns helper) process be removed?
Paul
Re:G2 player? (Score:1)
Re:Do this. (Score:1)
Paul
G2 player? (Score:2)
Bug Fixes (Score:1)
All work on my web site has ceased until I get a browser that will recognize and properly support css1. Then I can use HTML-4.0 for all new pages and gradually convert old pages to HTML-4.0. If it breaks IE, that's fine. If M$ can't or won't implement industry standards that are several years old working, that's their (and their foolish customers') problem, not mine. I, for one, do not care at all about XSL, nor for the moment about XML; and all my pages are and will remain Java-free.
NetScape-4.5 has disable options, but the JavaScript button, at least, does not work. The ideal browser, for me, would not in any way depend on Java, would use plug-ins for it and simply ignore all Java stuff if the plug-ins were not present.
"> write for FREE help [mailto] with:
Programmer? Drowned in bugs? Ada is the answer.
Communicator wasRe:Stable? (Score:1)
Re:Too bad USGOV/NOAA "standardizing" on NS (Score:1)
Re:My Solution: Don't use Netscape for mail! (Score:1)
I find that referring to it as OutHouse is a more effective, and an appropriate analogy.
Re:G2 player? (Score:1)
-Steve Bergman
What video card do you have !? (Score:1)
Re:new browser... (Score:1)
And you can be concerned with pixels and at the same time allow the page to stretch when the browser window is stretched. That's what a good display language does.
Re:new browser... (Score:1)
What we need is for people who don't need it to not use it. When you're designing a page for a kiosk with a resolution like a Palm Pilot, you start to appreciate pixel-level control. "give or take a pixel here or there" is not acceptable behavior.
Re:new browser... (Score:1)
I need to mix graphics and text with a format that can be output with a text editor and display on a widely available tool. Gee Beav, I wonder if such a thing exists?
Don't presume to tell me that I'm misusing anything unless you want to write and maintain my application for me.
Re:url completion (Score:2)
Ah well, we can hope that future browsers (cough, cough, Mozilla or Gzilla developers) will do something similar to this.
Re:2000x1500 (Score:1)
800x600 is fine for me most of the time on my 15"
Re:"Various bug fixes" (Score:1)
Thank god someone else noticed that. I thought I was alone in the world. Once I figured out what was going on, I just learned to skip drowpdowns until I'd filled all the text boxes in, but I'll never forget the night I stumbled across the bug. I was trying to fill out the form to download a newer version to get around the bug that kept me from filling in text...
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mphall@cstone.nospam.net
Re:"Various bug fixes" (Score:1)
Well, thanks for posting that, because I just discovered that dropdowns are still broken in 4.6 (at least on my machine), and your workaround works for Enlightenment/GNOME, too.
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mphall@cstone.nospam.net
Re:Spell checker? (Score:3)
Starting with 4.0, we strongly suggest setting the MOZILLA_HOME environment variable to point to the Communicator installation directory. Many Netscape Client components now look at MOZILLA_HOME as a fallback or default mechanism in addition to the existing mechanisms from previous releases.
csh, tcsh: /path/to/install-directory
setenv MOZILLA_HOME
sh, bash, ksh:
MOZILLA_HOME=/path/to/install-directory
export MOZILLA_HOME
Hope this helps.
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mphall@cstone.nospam.net
Re:Memory usage (Score:1)
Re:new browser... (Score:1)
If every web site were composed of a few static images and plain text, using HTML "properly" wouldn't be an issue. From a design perspective, HTML has some glaring weaknesses, and "misusing" it is the only way around them.
Re:netscape (Score:1)
--
Re:Too bad USGOV/NOAA "standardizing" on NS (Score:2)
Note that this is similar to Linux's hardware support problem, except that the linux community is more honest about what hardware is "supported" (although much of that supported hardware has beta level drivers). Microsoft is totally willing to hand out hardware certifications and the "Designed for Windows NT" sticker to unstable platforms.
I was under the impression that you shouldn't hot plug PS/2 mice under any OS...
--
Use junkbuster. (Score:3)
Another way to avoid having NS block on DNS lookups is to use the Junkbuster [junkbusters.com] proxy, and you get to filter out banner ads as a bonus.
One word of caution, though, manually bind Junkbuster to 127.0.0.1 - this may have changed, but previously the default setup you get by following README binds junkbuster to any IP address, resulting in an open proxy invitation to script kiddies.
Re:Stable? (Score:1)
It *IS* Netscape's fault. They have not stick to the standards that much (until now). MS Inept Explorer 4, released at the time Netscape 4 was released, conforms to standards such as CSS1 more than does Netscape. MS Inept Explorer 5 is by far more standards compliant than the current Netscape version, 4.6.
Besides, the HTML standards out there by the W3C say that if your browser comes across a tag it does not understand (ie. a non standard tag) it should just ignore it. Not crash.
And what have the hangs related with NSLookups to do with standards?
On the other hand, it is just a free product, we are not (directly) paying them to develope it. So it is not appropiate to discuss wether it is their "fault" or not.
However, you are doing well staying with Netscape. Its just a matter of time until a usable version of their free version gets ready (something we will know as Netscape 5). Everything will change. It will never crash. It will fully support far more standards than MS Inept Exporer. And you will be happy.
Alejo.
Re:Mozilla! (Score:1)
Go back to 4.0x (Score:1)
It also renders most everything I throw at it perfectly. What's the need for the later versions?
-josh
I hate huge downloads... (Score:1)
So I still have Navigator 4.01 (I have communicator 4.51 in linux). I dispise it at times and love it at times. I cant think of a time it hasn't crashed when it's loaded a Java applet. Suprisingly I have had very few problems with IE 4.whatever.version.i.have, although IE doesnt like to read CSS scripting in DHTML pages very well. In Win98 I use Outlook98 for mailing purposes. I rather like it dispite what many people have said about it. It handles mutiple accounts decently and is rather stable. In linux I use Communicator for the web and Messanger to mail. When Opera comes out for linux I'll be very happy. It's one of the best browsers I have ever used. It's truely a browser, it doesnt have al lthe superflous crap that makes IE and Communicator into bloatware packages. It's a browser plain and simple. If they decide to add Java support and an XML parser to it...it will be perfect IMHO.
Mozilla! (Score:5)
And on this front, I would say that Mozilla SeaMonkey is currently our best (and maybe our only) hope of getting a better browser for Linux... And what could be better? It is even open source! I therefore would like to call to all of you to help with the Mozilla project. Let us prove to Jamie Zawinski that all Mozilla needed was a little time.
I am one of the people who is contributing. Admittedly, I am not much of a coder--I only just completed some introductory C/C++ courses. But you do not even have to know C/C++ to do things like file bug reports, or even just give tips. For example, check this [mozilla.org] out. These open source tools were suggested to them by me.
Or, check out bug reports, like this [mozilla.org]. I submitted the patch that fixed that bug.
My point is, you don't have to know much about programming to help. And I think Mozilla deserves all the help it can get right now. So please, let us help Mozilla.
In case you people want to know what Mozilla is like... Let me say:
1) It is a radical departure from the old Netscape, and about time, too.
2) It is STANDARDS based. Example: ALL CSS1 properties are now supported.
3) It is truly cross-platform, unlike IE. Cross-platform UIs are built using a form of XML, in
4) It will support Skins (or Chrome), much like WinAmp. Skins anyone??
5) Also please check out MozillaZine [mozillazine.org]. They have some chrome available there.
Re:Too bad USGOV/NOAA "standardizing" on NS (Score:2)
It allows them to run Linux desktops/laptops instead of being slaves to MS's operating systems, paying fees for something they don't need.
We should be happy about that, not upset.
4.6 and Encryption (Score:1)
I am still using 4.04 here. I will try
4.6 when the 128-bit encryption version is
uploaded.
Re:Me Too! 3.04 was Netscapes Last Stable Browser (Score:1)
Re:G2 player? (Score:1)
Re:Spell checker? (Score:1)
---
Re:4.6 and Encryption (Score:2)
I don't know if it will work with this new 4.6 version, but I'm going to try it. I'm sure they'll add official support for it soon enough.
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Re:url completion (Score:3)
So, if autocomplete guesses correctly, you're golden and hit RETURN. If it doesn't guess correctly, you just ignore it and keep on typing the URL, i.e., it's exactly as if it weren't enabled. So what's the problem?
Anyway, yes, I'd love to see it. I think removing it from the UNIX versions is STUPID. Didn't it occur to anyone to make it an option in the Preferences, perhaps disabled by default if indeed it didn't make the UNIX "mentality"?
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Re:ns 4.6 (Score:1)
but, it's not like there is anything better out there, is there ?
ok, Lynx is pretty good
128 bit version here... (Score:3)
For those looking for it... For whatever reason, the link above doesn't work correctly; an extra space is inserted between the 'e' and the 'n' in the term "win32-en-complete"
https://wwwus.netscape.com/usdl-bin/pdms_dnstes
Copy the link, paste it into the correct place, delete the extra space, and grab the 128bit copy!
Found this at Ars Technica
Hopefully this doesn't get lost in the thread
-AS
Re:Stable? (Score:2)
Slashdot seems to render faster, as do other sites, and it hasn't hung yet - though 4.51 hadn't hung in a while since I setup squid as a local proxy for my machine. (most of the hangs I used to get appeared to be blocking dns lookups and the like, so by using squid locally, squid deals with the dns lookups + data download, and always gives netscape something to chew on - even if it's a page of html saying "not found").
Using the computer as its own proxy server may seem like overkill, but it's definitely upped the responsiveness of my machine. Squid is pretty good at downloading stuff
Using Netscape + fetchmail + procmail (Score:3)
By a little constructive work, you can get netscape's "MoveMail external program" option to use procmail.
First, I set up fetchmail to check my mail every few minutes, by calling it in
> more ~/.fetchmailrc
set postmaster "myusername"
set bouncemail
set properties ""
set daemon 600
poll my.pop3.server with proto POP3
user "mypop3username" there with password "my password" is myusername here
fetchmail loops mail from my pop server into my linux box's internal mail system (sendmail) Sendmail is set up to use procmail on my RH6.0 box, anyway, so I didn't need to use the
Procmail can accept a list of rules for what to do with your incoming mail, _in addition_ to the system wide rules. These are stored in
I added this rule ("recipe") to my ~/.procmailrc
$HOME/nsmail/.netscape.mail-recovery
This tells procmail to move a _copy_ of all my system mail (including the external mail looped in by fetchmail) to a file in the netscape mail directory called
Then, within Netscape, I went to Edit/Preferences Mail&Newsgroups/Mail servers.
I changed the server to (Using MoveMail), and changed the movemail preference to "using external application"
Now's the tricky bit - netscape calls the external movemail program with a few parameters, which are supposed to tell it to get the mail from
However - procmail's already done that bit! So, we don't need to do it again. I changed the "external movemail program" to "echo" with no parameters, as a sort of dummy command - netscape returns an error if no command at all is present.
So now, when I click on "get mail", netscape goes off and finds a copy of all my mail.
This is dead handy. note that a backup of all the mail could be kept by the procmail recipe (eg.):
$HOME/mail.backup
This rather convoluted sounding approach is the one I've found to be by far the most flexible. It allows me to use any combination of mail readers, by distributing copies of all messages between them, and allows me to use procmail's advanced filtering functions. It also neatly gets round netscape's "only one pop3 host" limitation, since fetchmail can poll as many as you like, and allows me to read all my system internal mail in the comfort of Netscape Messenger.
Note also that, for security, the
There - that wasn't so hard now....
Re:Too bad USGOV/NOAA standardizing on NS (Score:2)
If you can't get NT 4 SP3 to be stable, what makes you
think you can make Linux+VMWare stable?
A VMed version of NT crashing is a lot less destructive
than the thing crashing nativly.
Crashing 3 times a day is abyssmal and that's not NT's
fault. Learn some basic sysadmin skills and then ALL of
your OSes will be stable.
This comment comes up quite often ignoreing that
a) MS specifically markets this product as not needing
a trained admin.
b) information on NT admin is not always easily available
Re:Too bad USGOV/NOAA "standardizing" on NS (Score:2)
I would rather everybody was standardizing on Netscape than MS. At least my boss hates MS too...