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GNOME GUI

October Gnome Released 141

Posted by justin++ from the g2k dept.
k_wayne writes "The Gnome team have finished an amazing bug hunt and we are left with a pretty cool stable release of the Gnome system. See the announcement made by Elliot Lee. The gnome developers are now moving their attention toward the next generation gnome release. This new Gnome stuff is not only very stable, it's got some very cool stuff in it. " One really nice new feature is dingus-clicking: you can click on a URL in the terminal and have Netscape come up. XChat, glade, more translations, and easier bug reporting some of the most significant features.
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October Gnome Released More

October Gnome Released

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  • But yesterday I just 'apt-get upgrade'd my Debian potato system, like any other day. It automagically upgraded to October Gnome (there was careful work done this time to make sure that all the distros had packages ready the day it came out). Everything worked perfectly, since the distro is continuously updated and checked.

    Debian unstable is up to 4050-odd packages comprising everything ever anywhere. I'm up to 537 of them installed.

    After I upgraded to October Gnome, I went to a CMU-LUG meeting where Jacob Berkman (the gnome-core maintainer and panel hacker) talked about October Gnome!
  • > Today, it seems, we've turned the tables.

    Was it the same poster? Contrary to beliefs popular in certain circles, not all /.ers subscribe to the same opinion on every topic.


    --
    It's October 6th. Where's W2K? Over the horizon again, eh?

  • Well, unless I drink too much, and even then I usually just fall asleep.

    - NotZed (in Australia)

    __// `Thinking is an exercise to which all too few brains
  • Well, people seem to be a little hostile towards Gnome, so I thought I would add my thoughts on the matter...

    In my opinion, Gnome is much more developer-friendly than KDE. I see KDE as a desktop for complete newbies up to general computer use, but see Gnome as more of a power-user desktop. It uses the Gtk widget set, which was written to be open source by open source people. It is all GLPed, and always has been. It is not quite so take-over-the-desktop oriented as KDE is, giving much more flexibility (never had a specific window manager, parts can easily run without the whole). So, while everybody says "A is better than B" back and forth, one has to realize that the two are as different as apples and tuesday. They act differently, look differently, and are just plain different. If you like one, wht difference does it make if I like the other? I think they both serve their purpose quite well and am happy they are both there.

    By the way, I run neither Gnome nor KDE. I do have Gnome installed on my system, as I like it better in general and sometimes play with the latest toys, but usually I just run FVWM as a window manager and use XEmacs to do my coding.
  • An appropriate multiplexing in the Model/View/Controller paradigm would be to take the selected material and validate against a regex to guess (the "model" part) if it is:
    • A URL
    • A mailto: URL
    • An email address
    • A pathname (ala the Common Lisp notion of pathname, [harlequin.com] namely a structured object that represents a filename)
    • A MIME object dropped onto the clipboard
    Then, if there is ambiguity, make sure that whatever we "think" the object is happens to be accessible in that expected form.

    Notably, if it's a file reference, validate against /etc/magic to determine whether the method we think we're going to apply to it is actually appropriate to what's in the file.

    A "controller" part would be the provision of control to select the method by which the object is to be viewed. Which leads naturally to the "view" portion of the paradigm...

  • > s/just/jury/

    Unterminated command string! hehe... just picking nits...
    --
    - Sean
  • dpkg -l | wc -l
    428

    Downloading 30 packages instead of one huge is only a problem for those who don't understand how to use the tools available to them.

    man ncftpget

    Example:

    > ncftpget "ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/doc/lpf/programming.freedo m.*"
    programming.freedom.1.gz: 13.64 kB 199.71 kB/s
    programming.freedom.10.gz: 5.32 kB 109.12 kB/s
    programming.freedom.11.gz: 4.65 kB 129.30 kB/s
    programming.freedom.2.gz: 10.02 kB 58.00 kB/s
    programming.freedom.3.gz: 10.19 kB 136.75 kB/s
    programming.freedom.4.gz: 10.70 kB 161.11 kB/s
    programming.freedom.5.gz: 11.69 kB 201.46 kB/s
    programming.freedom.6.gz: 12.22 kB 160.36 kB/s
    programming.freedom.7.gz: 9.79 kB 63.93 kB/s
    programming.freedom.8.gz: 14.75 kB 172.54 kB/s

    Now go practice.

    /mill

  • IF I had the bandwidth to upgrade form an ftp site, and gnome had an rpm dir with all the rpms, I'd just do an rpm -Uvh * and let my system determine which rpms I need :-)
  • There is not enough context to map 'blah.txt' to an actual file on disk, thats basically why.

    Seems to me that a convention using the CWD of the foreground process on that terminal might be a useful default directory for "blah.txt"
  • I think it's quite ok to use a version name instead of a version number to indicate a release of a bundle of software. It sounds much cooler and is easier to remember than 1.0.53.

    However, this month thing may get confusing. How can you know if e.g. JuneGnome is newer then OctoberGnome if you don't have the year in it..

    Greetings,
    Ivo
  • In ncftp, mget * and then rpm -Fvh * was easy enough for me. The -F option upgrades all previously installed packages.

    Knowing these and other magic spells is the hard part (for the general public, anyway).
  • Windowmaker is one single program
    GNOME is many many programs

    Windowmaker is a windowmanager
    GNOME is a desktop environment.

    You cannot say "Windowmaker is one 3 files, GNOME should be too", as they are totally different things.

    GNOME has been fairly stable for me since about V0.9, but once it passed about V1.0.9, it hasn't crashed in any major way that I can remember. The only version of GNOME that I had a problem with was 0.3. Version 1.18 is very stable and if you don't want to upgrade, fine, just don't be so close minded. Just because it crashed once in the past, doesn't mean it's not stable now.



  • Common to what. My first Gnome-installation took hours to download all this libs (56k modem). I admit having used a RedHat-system by the time.
    Nevertheless, it IS bloat as kde is (not accepting your bloat-definition).

  • Re:"Impressive stability improvements" ? (Score:3)

    by extrasolar ( 28341 ) on Wednesday October 13, 1999 @03:05AM (#1617694) Homepage Journal
    Actually, I would argue the reverse. I think stability improvements are impressive. Especially with the many interlocking componets of a desktop enviroment.

    I gave up on Gnome due to all the bugs

    Well, what are you waiting for? This is the stable release you have been waiting for and no longer need to be a bigot!

    --

  • Perhaps you'd like a service pack? :) (Score:5)

    by Booker ( 6173 ) on Wednesday October 13, 1999 @03:15AM (#1617696) Homepage
    I get a kick out of reading Slashdot comments on the PCWeek thing, about how 21 security updates aren't that bad, you just wget the whole directory, then rpm -Fvh *.rpm and you're done. And how one big service pack from Microsoft is bloated and slow and inefficient....

    Today, it seems, we've turned the tables. "30 packages? What a pain! Why don't they just give me one big package that I can click?"

    :)
  • Much obliged. I really appreciate your making these available.

    Wish me luck with the upgrade!
  • As far as I know Apt will do it, in a simpler fashion than RPM. Seems to be better configured for the power user than RPM.
  • Hey - this sounds completely brilliant!

    I have often been frustrated using Mutt at the remote server where I collect my mail. It's not astoundingly inconvenient to cut & paste a URL, but "insta-click"(tm :-) is a much better solution.

    I wonder how it will handle URL's that have broken across a line?? Anyone got the answers?

  • Team is a singular collective noun, and as such can be used with both 'has' and 'have'...

    The team have finished...
    The team has finished...

    Basically, you are saying 'the [members of the] team have finished' in the first instance. Absolutely nothing wrong with that...


    T.
  • Why didn't they implement a regex->action coupling? You can implement opening URL's from xterms using this by creating a regex for an URL, and binding netscape to that URL.
    You could also use this to open a texteditor whenever something like blah.txt is encountered.
  • ...but then again, I did when 1.0 came out. They did themselves no favours then, but I suppose we're all entitled to one mistake.

    For the record, I think the 'click in a terminal' feature is beyond cool.
    One thing: October GNOME? What does October stand for? Let's see... October Can Take Off Because Errors Remedied?
  • The only probablem with this is that you are now emulating windows. However, I do believe it is a good idea, as long as there is an easy way to get an open with type thing, so that I can override the default with out actually changing the default.
  • The .deb's seem to be gone on the FTP.
    Does anybody know anything about it?
    Or do I have to start compiling tar-balls and CVS-snapshots again?
  • Frankly, they should also use version number, it is much more easy to follow the evolution of a product based on its version number (minor enhancement ? increase minor number) than on the month of the release...

    Maybe they don't use version number because they fucked up the 1.0.0 version which should have been labeled 0.9.9 to say that it was feature complete but not yet stable. But that doesn't mean that using version number is a bad thing, it just mean that you have to be cautious about your version number..
  • Actually, the version number is 1.0.53.


    --
  • Hmmmm... I went to the site and had a look at the RH rpm's and I'm a little miffed that they expect me to download and install 30+ packages. Why not at least put them into 5-6 larger ones. It would certainly make the process much easier.

    Anyways, I'm going to give it a try, heck, maybe I'll write a perl script to automate the process.
  • I've had URL insta-click since 4 years ago (I didn't come up with it either, borrowed the scripts from someone else, then later rewrote them in perl). oh, and that's with plain fvwm2, no GNOME or KDE. for this you need: xselection from ftp://ftp.x.org/R5contrib (takes some tweaks to compile on X11R6 but it works), Netscape's remote.c (linked from http://home.netscape.com/newsref /std/x-remote.html [netscape.com], and a little glue script that grabs the PRIMARY selection, strips spaces, and calls remote with it. the you configure your window manager to run the script when you press a key, with a line like this:
    Key F6 A N Exec netscape-sel &

    once you have that, all you have to do is mouse-select a URL anywhere and press F6.

  • I'm actually considering Debian for this exact reason. Can you set it up to only pull updates you want, like autorpm --interactive mode? Basically, autorpm will pull a list of RPM's that can be updated, and sends an email. You then run it interactively, and tell it to try install, update, or remove the package from beuing checked..
  • Gnome has a baaaaaaaaad reputation in the Nokia division where I work. People call it the synonim for "crappy". I believe there is much good work behind the project, I also know how powerful is the object model on which it's based, ultrakudos to Gnome. But when they released version 1.0, they shot themselves in the feet.

    Personally I had a non-nice experience installing Gnome, I admit I never made it working. I also admit I didn't try very hard because fvwm2 was enough for me at the time, and KDE got my heart when I tried it later. KDE was nice enough to not want me trying to install Gnome again. But I am sure the guys here will happily install it on the RH boxes, and I will certainly have many feedbacks on how it's performing. I wish Gnome all the best, and succesful bug-hunting.

  • "Dingus clicking"

    I'd love to see that enter the vernacular:

    "Launch Netscape"
    "no, you have to click the dingus"
    "no, click"
    "here"
    "the DINGUS!, click the DINGUS!"
    "good"

  • You are behind the times friend, (Score:4)

    by extrasolar ( 28341 ) on Wednesday October 13, 1999 @03:28AM (#1617712) Homepage Journal
    Everything is different now.

    You see, Gnu/Linux is no longer just for the computer elite, it for a much larger crowd who for some reason, want to take a chance with this bold new platform.

    Hacking value isn't a boolean value, friend. It is qualitive in all shapes and sizes. Think, there is probably somebody who used to be famliar DOS batch files and task-switching in DOS who right now is experimenting with Python. Think, someone who used to write HTML in MS Notepad is, right now, learning vi. Think, right now, someone is writing their first shell script. Think, right now, someone is learning Perl.

    If there is one good GNU/Linux can cause because of it's hype, it would be the spread of true computer literacy and the aknowledgement of what computer literacy really is.

    Desktops like Gnome and KDE aren't just catering to the masses, they are catering to people who are less secure with a command-line, but still want to learn. Tell me this, what difference is there between developing in gEdit rather than emacs or vi.

    Why is it, you think, that people are coming to Unix? Probably because Windows isn't fun anymore. A little while ago, I saw one of the last issues of DOSWorld in the newsstands. I glanced through it and saw the various tricks and hacks with batch scripts and DOS and thought to myself, these people would love GNU/linux. I believe that many of these people do. DOSWorld doesn't exist anymore.

    I would love to see a scripting utility for gnome to make access to the desktop more easier. Access to all the Corba objects and bonobo componets with documentation, something compelling to even the least computer literate.

    Ah, but one can dream...

    --

  • besides, if you want "themes" you can have them in windows too. Take reveal for example. http://reveal.unpaved.com/
  • Gee, think October stands for the month of the release? Naw, that's too easy...

  • Subject/Verb Agreement (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I've noticed this error so many times on Slashdot, I must say something.

    "Team" is a singular noun. "Have finished" is a plural verb phrase when used in the third person as this sentence uses it. They don't go together. This article should start with, "The Gnome team has finished. . . ." You wouldn't say "John have finished. . . ." would you?

  • Sure, it is great they fix bugs instead of just moving forward with new features. I do not think that it is "impressive", though.

    My point (which, judging by the moderation, I did not get accros too well :-) was that releasing software as version 1.0 when it is full of bugs is not too good, promotion wise. They called 1.0 stable, and now it turns out it was so buggy that the bugfixing alone is "impressive". It surely makes me wonder whether I can trust that this release is stable.

    It reminds me of Windows, where Win95 was said to be so much more fun. And then Win98 commercials come along, stating that Win98 will take away the headache. (They had such commercials in Denmark, I do not know if it was world-wide. They had a box of painkillers of the brand "Windows 98" if I recall correctly).

    I am a programmer. When I fix a bug, I apologize that I put it in in the first place. I do not celebrate myself as being the great bugfixer. It is merely the word "impressive" that I am against - not the bugfixing in itself. As I said, fixing bugs is great!
    --

  • They have to many things to download for the base distribution. There are like 20 packages just to get the basic GOME installed. If it were not for the fact that distros like SuSE, Redhat, and Slackware to name a few, to include GNome on there cdroms, I'd never have tried gnome. Kde was much easier, there were 3 files to download to get the system up kdesupport, kdelibs and kdebase. Anything else was / is extra. Not to turn this into a desktop war, but don't you think that it would be easier to install there stuff if they did it this way? I have heard of many an experienced Linux user having problems getting gnome up and running. BTW I do like gnome very much, and my currentl desktop consists of windowwmaker window manager gnome task bar and kfm. A little bit of diversity never killed anyone :-)
  • Anyone else notice that their releases tend to occur *immediately* after RedHat makes their CD image? Just in time so that it can't go on the next OS release. Something MUST be afoot. fnord

    -Chris
  • I downloaded the new October GNOME RPMs from one of the mirror sites, and they ran on my Red Hat 6.1 system w/o a hitch.

    I use gftp to grab the entire directory of the ftp server. Then at the command line, cd into the new directory and run 'rpm -Uhv *.rpm"; very convenient!

    The new features are great, a definate must-have for all GNOMErs out there... Stable as a rock, too.
  • *grin*...At least you weren't in MY boat...I was (literally) in the middle of a 1.0 install, and the *.debs and instructions started disappearing!! Woohoo! Freaked me out; I finally found a mirror that hadn't taken down the gnome-1.0 directories, and finished. Freakin' Murphy's Law...of course, now I get to go home today and apt-get upgrade...

  • Huh? (Score:1)

    by mattc ( 12417 )
    What is a dingus? Some kind of wild animal from Australia?
  • Is it worth upgrading whatever gnome comes with 6.1 RedHat to this new Gnome? Or are they so close it doesn't matter? I'm guessing that RH6.1 has a gnome only a few minor patches behind. Am I correct?
  • That would work some of the time, but I'm guessing you'd get an error more often than not. Just because you're reading a file that contains "blah.txt" doesn't mean that "blah.txt" exists in your current directory.

    On the other hand I suppose you could be more sophisticated and only make it hypertext if the file actually DOES exist in your directory...
  • Unix shouldn't use extensions to determine what the contents of a file is (personally I never use extensions except for graphics and source code). To find out what type of file something is, use the 'file' command-- it's really cool. If I want to name an C shell script "readme.txt" and the documentation "install.sh" I should be able to :-)
  • Named after the October Revolution? I dunno, just guessing..
  • Read the documention,moron. Oh, that's right you microsoft types *DON'T* know how to read,do you?

    Who wants to read the documentation of every package just to figure out the version numbers? nd sweeping statements about "microsoft types" just makes you look even worse. I don't use windows, either at work or at home. I'm afraid it's you who's the moron my friend.
  • Ah yes? And your such a hotshot programmer?? Why don't you enlighten us by listing some of the programs you've created?


    Didn't think so! :-)
  • Another argument for not using a version number for large stuff such as operating systems and GNOME is that they are made up out of relatively independent components. A release should be seen as a collection of specific versions of those components. From this point of view, ms naming their latest release Windows 98 second edition is rather nice. It indicates that it is an incremental update over the original windows 98 (you might argue that it should actually be called windows 95 fourth/fifth edition).

  • Actually, you're both right and wrong here.

    "Team" is a singluar noun -- but it is a singular noun representing a group composed of many individuals. Depending on the context, and your meaning, you could say "the team has" or "the team have". The former has more of an emphasis on the team as a whole, and, in this case, might be appropriate. The latter emphasises the individuality of the members of the group represented by the noun: "The team have been fighting about dinguses for months".

    I am not a language lawyer. Just paid attention in my grammar courses.
  • Ok some random bable form me: 1) why the heck would you want to run stable, awsome software on windows? 2) gnome is based on gtk, and yes I know it's been ported, but gnome looks and acts a lot like the docking bar on windows.. admittedly it's a lot NICER but hey windows stinks sorry dude you've reached the world where windows sucks and the most innovating software that is being made right now is free, and for operating systems outside of the normal Windows or Mac worlds. sorry buddy but you need to wake up and smell the coffee.
  • Dude! you need to wake up and drink the coffee. It was a joke. go buy a sense of humor.
  • Today, it seems, we've turned the tables. "30 packages? What a pain! Why don't they just give me one big package that I can click?"

    Because the 21 bug patches are useful independently (moreso in that a few weeks ago there were only, say, 15, and if you had gotten those, you would only need to download 6 today).

    With gnome is those 30 packages are effectively 1/30th of a big blob due to a web of interdependencies. Individually they are useless, or maybe worse than useless as they will break your old Gnome installation?

  • I looked for the debs on ftp.debian.org but all that seems to be there is the original slink ... apt-get is going to be a little painful over a modem. Sometimes I just want to burn a bunch of new stuff to cd and take it home.
  • 1.0 was the release of the API, not of 'GNOME' as a package. Unfortunately it was taken this way, and many of the components that are considered a part of gnome were not at 1.0 then (and still aren't last time I checked!)
  • This version of Gnome is very much better than 1.0
    Certainly that is in part because 1.0 was premature, but it's also because more people have had an opportunity to contribute now.

    Packaging is an issue of flexibility versus simplicity. The KDE crowd believe (rightly or wrongly) that most users will be happy with "All in the box" packaging, while Gnome believes in exposing individual optional parts.

    So, I'd certainly say KDE is easier to install manually, but GNOME wins for me because I happen to be picky, and I don't _want_ zillions of unnecessary components included in one huge package.
    I'll probably install about half of October Gnome, and never miss anything I don't install.

    Users getting all this on CD won't care either way (In RH6.1 it was just one button press Gnome vs KDE)
  • Hey, I have Redhat 5.2 RPMS at:
    ftp://saturn.aae.uiuc.edu/pub/gnome
  • (Disclaimer: a bit off topic...)

    Has anyone tried running Java/Swing under Gnome? I enjoy using both KDE and Gnome, but KDE seems to run AWT/Swing far better than Gnome. This is with both Blackdown and IBM JDK's...
  • > I am not a language lawyer. Just paid attention in my grammar courses.

    I defy you to produce a cite where "the team have" is proper usage.
  • I havea feeling with more and more mainstream desktop usage we, as the experienced users, are going to be getting more and more of these confused comments. We houls be prepared to instuct with gentle hands and not blast people for something that could be confusing.

    For clarification:
    WindowMaker, E, KWM, FVWM, Blackbox and similar are windowmanagers. Windowmanagers control placement of windows, decoration of titlebars and such.

    gnome/kde are desktop environments. It sounds confusing but it's not. Gnome/KDE applications each have a common look and feel to them. Wether it be QT with kde or GTK with gnome. The only difference between kde/gnome other than the look is that kde comes with its own WindowManager (defined above). If anyone wants to add to this I can set up a webpage that has information on this somewhere. It seems rather important to me. Maybe a page for newbies with common misconceptions they may have?
  • Gladly.

    Let's start out with http://www.faqs.org/faqs/alt-usage-english-faq/, search for 'company are'.

    There. A single cite. Happy now?

    But I will go on, just to prove the point.

    http://www.hiway.co.uk/~ei/sect4.html.

    B: When the individual members of the collective group are important, the verb is plural:

    e.g. The police are protecting the town.

    Or there is http://webster.commnet.edu/HP/pages/darling/gramma r/plurals.htm#collective_nouns

    There are, further, so called collective nouns, which are singular when we think of them as groups and plural when we think of the individuals acting within the whole (which happens sometimes, but not often).

    I have others. That's three times as many as you asked for. Need I go on?
  • KDE may be in the lead at the moment, but (IMHO) It's not "winning"

    I recently tried KDE just to see what the fuss was about. It does do cool things, but I found it a bit kludgy in comparison to Gnome.
    This is my personal oppinion, not ment as flame bait.)

    just my 2e-2$
  • I'm curious..how does the click-in-terminal thing work? I'm assuming this is only applicable to the GNOME terminal...

    --Jamin Philip Gray
    jamin@DoLinux.org

  • For GNOME v2 (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Firstly, I've used GNOME for several months, more recently I've been using KDE. And I see newbies-to-computers practically every day.

    I like GNOME/GTK for it's technological design and also because it is beautiful when themes are installed. However, on this last point people complain about the speed of GNOME in comparison to KDE which of course can be mostly answered by GNOME users using a plain theme. IIRC someone on #gnome did say that s/he was hoping to re-write the gtk-engines package to improve it's speed considerably, here's hoping...

    With KDE, the applications are far more consistent. In GNOME apps, many file dialogues can be seen (see GIMP (okay, not strictly GNOME) verses GQView) and various UI styles are involved. Granted, they all use GTK, but there lacks consistency here. On KDE it's a very different (not neccessarily better) story

    Perhaps when the guidelines for writing GNOME apps for v2 come out, they will contain stricter usage of widgets. Don't complain that that restricts choice - choice is for people who run E/WM/AfterStep *without GNOME or KDE - people running GNOME/KDE usually do for for complete consistency throughout their applications and that is best today in KDE.

    Again as a lot of people have said, the number of packages which needs downloading should come down. Even KDE may just have one or two packages are can be merged, and I understand that something may be happening at least in a small way on the GNOME packaging front soon. I hope so.

    Where GNOME does however fall down against KDE is in application documentation. Having used KDE for a couple of months now I have seen a noticable difference in the priority given to helpful diologues with "Help" where possible and appropriate. GNOME has these quite sparingly, although I may be doing the new release an injustice.

    I hope this will fire up some good constructive development efforts for the v2 release - I see the KDE v2 preview screenshots and can only see good - let's hope that GNOME v2 can produce a more consistent, solid environment with plenty of functionality.

  • Since there's so many accusations of the FSF and GNU being communistic, perhaps this really does refer to the October Revolution. Remember how Lenin was summoned to Moscow after the Czars were thrown out of rulership? The old evil feudalistic regime was being replaced by a non-communistic government. This was intolerable. Freedom must not be allowed to come to Russia unless it was the approved Marxist/Leninist version. So Soviet Russia was born, those few months of fledgling freedom erased from the history books.

    Is this what October Gnome means? Non-GNU desktops are popular. This is intolerable. All supporters of the political party known as GNU must band together. This is a revolution. KDE must be utterly destroyed, fair or foul, and its memory erased from history. Free Software must not be allowed to exist without the blessings and sanctifications of St. Ignutius.
  • Isn't it time for Gnome to get their own HTML browser? After all, Gnome is already approaching the bloated side. Clicking on an URL and having the 500 pound monstrosity called Navigator pop up is enough to send 16Meg systems into terminal thrashing.
  • Hmm, I don't want to sound like a MS advocate here, but maybe it's not a bad thing that they aren't using a version number. Think about it. None of the "average users" out there want to deal with 1.blah.blah or 0.x.x. Microsoft did lots of marketing research in this area - let's take the hint. It's much easier, they discovered, to just remember a year, which coincided with a release data (sometimes). I think putting the identifier in front of the name is a little strange, but who knows - maybe it'll catch on.

    I think, especially, the teams that get the most outside attention should develop alternative version schemes (keep the numbers, but have a second system for release names). It just adds to the polished effect. It bothers a lot of people that most Linux software is pre-1.0. You and I know that it's not the same as pre-1.0 in the Win-World, but aren't we trying to gain support from the outside now?

    -----------

    "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding."

  • It gets confusing though. There are so many packages within Gnome, and many of them have different version numbers. What comprises Gnome? And what is it's version number? Hard questions to answer. Personally I don't bother and stay clear of it anyway ;)

  • Pah :) (Score:1)

    by altman ( 2944 )
    My ANTterm program on the Acorn did URL launching from a terminal window years ago...

    Still, it's a good feature.

    Hugo


  • Umm... never mind. The deb packages seem to be up at the Debian FTP archive.
  • granted that's some cleverness there, but the gnome-terminal implimentation is a step nicer. Move the mouse pointer over a URL and it underlines it so you can see what string it will pass through, then just one click and it pops up a new netscape window with it. nifty

    el bobo
  • I seem to remember a time with 5.2 when I attempted to update the GTK and glib RPM's using Gnome's RPM's, and it really, REALLY broke things. I ended up backing out of the RPM, and then 6.0 came out. Now that we're at 6.1, and idea of Gnome.org's RPM's will update 6.1's RPM's without a hitch?

    I'll just go compile it up on my Slackware system, but I dare not touch comnpiling on the RedHat machine for fear the wrath of the RPM discrepency demon..

  • Re:More generic regex->action coupling (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There is not enough context to map 'blah.txt' to an actual file on disk, thats basically why.

    Anyway, it IS implemented as a generic regex-action mapping in the zvt widget, its just that gnome-terminal has only loaded a url regular expression and a browser 'action'.

    It will probably be more configurable in a future release - there wasn't much time this time around. And other programs like x-chat will easily be able to add similar point-and-click functions if they want too (which is probably a nicer feature).

    NotZed
    (who can't remember his password atm)
    (who can't believe this is a 'headline' feature of gnome-1.0.53)
  • Hermed annonceres udgivelsen af

    - O k t o b e r G N O M E -
    (version 1.0.53)

    Det glæder GNOME projektet at kunne annoncere tilstedeværelsen
    af "Oktober GNOME". Denne nye version kommer med et stabilt,
    nem-at-bruge, og kraftfuld skrivebords miljø for brugere af UNIX-
    lignende operativ systemer såsom GNU/Linux.

    ===> Hvad er GNOME?

    GNU Network Object Model Environment'et (GNOME) er et gratis
    skrivebords miljø for UNIX-lignende systemer, som tillader brugere
    at udføre basis systemopgaver, såsom filhåndtering og ændring af
    brugergrænsefladen uden at skulle benytte svære og komplicerede
    kommandoer ved kommando prompten

    GNOME kommer med et kraftfuldt grafisk miljø, som gør det nemt at
    benytte UNIX-lignede systemer. Ved brug af træk-og-slip filhåndteringen
    kan brugere manipulere filer og skrivebords ikoner. Komplet kontrol
    over brugergrænsefladens "look and feel" er mulig via kontrol centeret,
    som tillader brugere at opnå maksimal komfort og produktivitet gennem
    forskellige udseende-temaer og andre indstillinger. GNOME panelet, det
    centrale element på GNOME skrivebordet, er en fleksibel og meget
    konfigurerbar element der bl.a. kan benyttes til at starte programmer og
    forskellige redskaber.

    National sprog understøttelse gør det mulig for brugere at opleve/bruge
    GNOME på næsten 30 forskellige sprog, og sprogholdene arbejder næsten
    konstant på at øge antallet af understøttede sprog.

    For udviklere, kommer GNOME med en standard applikation ramme
    (framework). Dette sikre en konsistent grænseflade som brugere let kan
    lære. Applikations rammen gør det mulig for udviklere nemt at benytte
    forskellige teknologier, såsom CORBA, træk-og-slip, GNOMEs kanvas/
    billede model, XML, libglade, og programmeringssprog uafhængighed
    til at bygge særdeles kraftige applikationer.

    ===> Hvad er nyt i Oktober GNOME?

    Forbedringer:

    . Imponerende stabilitets forbedringer tillader bekymrings-fri brug.

    . Tilgængelige funktioner i de centrale applikationer er blevet
    udvidet og forbedret

    . Samarbejde mellem GNOME udviklerne er mere behagelig, takket
    være en simpliceret problem reporterings proces.

    . Mange flere sprogoversættelser er blevet tilføjet af GNOME oversættelses
    projektet.

    . "Magisk url" funktionen i terminal "widget'en" tillader web integration
    med alm. applikationer.

    . Glade brugergrænseflade udviklingsværktøj tilføjet.

    . XChat irc klient tilføjet.

    . CORBA grænseflade tilføjet for vigtige skrivebords servicer.

    . Mange tilføjelser til GNOMEs flotte farvede ikoner fra GNOME ikon
    projektet

    ===> Hvordan installerer jeg Oktober GNOME?

    For instruktioner om hvordan man installere denne nye udgave, besøg
    venligst 'Kom igang' siden på http://www.gnome.org/start/

    Udover kildekoden, er forkompilerede pakker tilgængelig for Red Hat,
    Caldera og SuSE Linux distributionerne. - og pakker for andre Linux
    distributioner er under vej.

    ===> Hvordan kan jeg få hjælp til at bruge GNOME?

    Hjælp er tilgængelig via en bred række at forskellige medier, såsom
    postlister, irc kanaler og online dokumentation. Besøg venligst websiden
    på http://www.gnome.org/ for mere information.

    God fornøjelse,
    -- GNOME holdet

    Dansk annoncering af Kenneth Christiansen







  • Achtung Debian user!
    Incase you aren't aware of it, the most redeeming feature of Debian is apt! I have it crontab'd to update my entire distro every night, just edit your sources file for the unstable, and `apt-get dist-upgrade`... mmmmmm.
  • In a word, definitely.

    There is some pretty large brokenness in the GNOME that was shipped with RH 6.1. The dingus clicking doesn't work, and there are quite a few crashes that were fixed in the time between RH 6.1 and gnome 1.0.53.
  • You act as if KDE and GNOME are being shoved down your throat. They aren't. If YOU DON'T LIKE THEM, YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE EITHER OF THEM. Even if your Linux distribution comes with one or the other you are in no way forced to run it.

    I know all the unix commands for listing, copying, and moving files, and could use them to do all my file management from the console or an xterm. But you know what? I don't want to. It's quicker and easier to use drag-and-drop. You may disagree, but in Linux IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING, YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT.

    I agree that themes are trivial. But I do believe that it is reasonable to add a little eye candy if you want to. You look at the monitor all the time, you should have something cool to look at if you want. However, not everyone who uses KDE or GNOME uses themes. I don't use them because I don't want to fool with them, but that's my choice, and I have no business speaking for other users. Linux is cool because IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT.

    Now people are going to talk about stability and performance issues. I have a P200 that is far more powerful than what I need to get by. I can afford to use up some RAM and CPU cycles. And when I need the stability for something (like a long download), I just exit X Windows and do it from the console.

    I don't blame you for not liking KDE and GNOME. Personally, I hate GNOME and get frustrated with KDE pretty frequently. But don't whine about it like you've been done some sort of injustice. The bottom line is that, in Linux, IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING, YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT.
  • Yes, get the new GNOME packages - just download them to a directory, then, switch to root, do "rpm -Uvh *" and a clean GNOME upgrade should ensue. LOTS of good updates, features, and fixes. Then, sit back and be productive!!
  • Actually the core gnome people don't support either, it is others who build the rpms. And the gnomers are very interested in having .debs too, it is just that at the moment, the rpm builders are a tad faster. Or at least this is how I think it is -- not to dash any conspiracy theories or anything.
  • He told "you" to go away and you denied it was you, but agreed with the sentiment of the post. So I wonder what in those "press releases" that was so upsetting?

    Here I thought some kind of cooperation would evolve thanks to the work of Havoc Pennington and people like Christian Tibirna, Kurt Granroth and Stefan Westerfeld (at least the last two have appeared level headed and made attempts before).

    I wonder what caused this particular outburst.

    /mill
  • Now where did

    • "Impressive stability improvements allow worry-free computing."

    come from?

    Directly from the GNOME marketing department? ;)

  • Well, I know that :)
    To bad I'm just having a modem connection (now my system is hopeless outdated version of potato).
    Also, unstable seems to have a bit too many known bugs (~300 methinks). What we need is Gnome for slink.
  • Yep. This is madness. And they do bitch about MS being bloated ... huh.
    ( same goes for Enlightement ... 20 "support" packages - people don't think, I guess, they just release software )\
  • You could always setup autorpm to look at the updates directory on gnome's ftp site.
  • I know this is flame bait, but someone has to speak up:

    Why all the excitement for these sugar coating GUIs (KDE, GNOME, YADM). Do i really give a ph*ck about themes? Can i impress the people in my office with the incredibly baroque-looking desktop i can configure? Can i write a 100 line Perl CGI?

    These are for script kiddies, Perl schmucks and wintel wannabes. You want to develop, make real applications, all you need is emacs, some good elisp packages, and a clean desktop. Yes, I agree that things like the CORBA interfaces to desktop service is an excellent idea. Yes, I know that htere are more than developers out there and they have there needs too. But all you out there talk about is themes, and and whether it plays solitaire and trivial sh*t like that. Don't pretend.
  • The difference between Microsoft and Gnome is that Microsoft do much less release, their release are numbered by the year of the release.

    Gnome release much more often, so they have to use the month! Why not say something like "The October Gnome Release v1.0.35", it gives more informations and it isn't that much longer.

    BTW, I really do like the Linux version numbering scheme, odd subnumber for developer release and even subnumber for stable release. A good idea TM.
  • I run Gnome, compiled from tarballs, on a Red Hat 5.2 box. It works fine. Just make sure you use up-to-date versions of glib, gtk and GIMP, removing the Red Hat RPMs of those packages before you start compiling them.
  • I guess the (or at least one) 'problem' they face is that Gnome is made up of loads of different bits with different (yet often similar) version numbers and that adding a version number to the whole package may confuse/mislead (ie people expecting Gnome 1.0.50 to contain 1.0.50 versions of gnome-core, gnome-libs etc etc).

    I think a named release isn't a bad idea.

    The Great Chunder Page - Alcohol Induced Fun!
  • I know this is flame bait, but someone has to speak up
    We should all respond to flame bait once in a while, so here I go...

    You're making the fundamental /.er mistake; assuming that everything in the world is designed for your exclusive benefit. The ultimate aim of Linux is to appeal to the masses, and the only way it can do that is with themes, solitaire and trivial shit like that. If it pisses you off, don't use it.

    On the subject of pissed off, what does 'sh*t' mean? If you're going to swear, do it properly. If you're not, there are plenty of acceptable alternatives that don't require punctuation.
  • can't help but laugh at this.

    zero cool, eh?
    hahahahhahahaha.
  • I think there are .debs in the debian tree (that's what I've heard).

    And the module maintainers only make .tar.gz, as the other person pointed out. Dax and others make the RPM's.
  • They worked very hard for over 2 months fixing bugs and adding features to make GNOME more worthwhile. While I don't agree with their pushing GNOME 1.0 out the door early, they still put a lot of work into this release. If all you can do is bitch and complain about GNOME, either don't say anything at all or contribute your services to the GNOME project and try to make a difference in something you want to see changed. I didn't like the fact that GNOME was sorely lacking in documentation, so I am now working on docs for GNOME 2.0. Do the same thing if you have skills they could use...
  • Other people have already posted more complete replies, but one thing to notice is that British / UK usage is to use plural nouns with corporations. "Nike have released sales figures" is correct in British English. The phrasing might sound funny to Americans, who would probably feel more comfortable hearing "Nike has released sales figures."

    Note too that Robin Hood and his Band of Merry Men can be thought of as 1 group (RH,MM), 2 groups (RH)+(MM), two collections of individuals (RH) + (MM1, MM2, MM3 ...MMX) or a single collection of individuals (RH, MM1, MM2, MM3 ... MMX). I like the third interpretation, because the characters other than Robin are individually interesting, but Robin Hood could survive as a character even without them.

    Collective nouns -- whoah, dude! Heavy, heady, interesting, debateable.

    Of course, whether Slashdot's editors ought conform to American idiom is another matter. I'd like to see them be consistent, and I offer my services as a copy editor. :)

    timothy
  • Couldn't agree with you more. I finally broke down and bought a Liux system (just got it yesterday) and set the old Windows system in the kitchen, for my wife to use. Why am I switching? Well, a couple of reasons... I am learning Perl, etc. and wanted access to the tools and languages available on Linux. I like using the console in Win2000, but it is sorely lacking...

    The other reason is that I mostly got bored. When you stop learning about your OS (or when most of its guts are hidden from view), things get boring. As more and more things become "point and click", I start to lose interest. I want to spend time poking around in manuals, learning new things, becoming more intimate with the OS. Linux will let me do that. Windows won't, and at that point it's boring.

    Anyway, all I can say is "right on"; you said what I've been thinking lately.

    --"A man's Palm is his best friend."

  • Do you worry about the safety of that? In the past potato has had a few bad packages(bash/readline and now slang1), I trust you are either using stable (slink) or are very brave.

    Also, some packages have an interactive install, how do you get around that in a cron job? Please tell me you don't use apt's option to automatically assume yes... as this seems ridiculously dangerous.

  • It's the apps, stupid. (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Ok, I'll bite. Gnome & KDE are MUCH MORE than graphical environments. The graphical shell is more an afterthought; it's the LIBRARIES that mean something. It has nothing to do with 'script kiddies and perl hackers'.

    Take a browse on freshmeat...check out all the KDE & GNOME apps that have appeared recently. There's some REALLY good stuff in there, and we can thank KDE and GNome for that. The KDE & Gnome development libraries make it REALLY easy to make an attractive, relatively complex program that WORKS with other programs, hot off the compiler.

    You're right though; themes are a distraction and a performance hog in the end. But shiny themes are going to help pry newbies away from Bill's world.

    And you know what the BEST thing about themes is? YOU CAN TURN THEM OFF. Hell, turn the whole desktop environment off, run TWM...you still get the benefit of KDE & Gnome when you fire up KOffice or Gnumeric.

  • ever heard of urlview? It pops up a window after parsing some text (or an email message) displaying all that url-like items. You simply click a key and it loads your favorite browser with the url.

    I couldn't find a link to urlview's homepage, but you can find info about it in Mutt's [mutt.org]manual or at filewatcher [filewatcher.org]

  • Re:Nice try, but (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    No that isn't bloat. Bloat is when you create new libraries using copy and paste instead of using common small libraries.
  • Ok, I'm biting :) Seriously, though your tone is flamish I think you raise a good question.

    What do desktops have to do with developers? I develop from within a terminal window or a bare CLI and it sounds like you do too. This is true whether I'm working on Linux or Windows.

    Desktops are for users.

    Users like solitaire and desktop configurability.

    Companies write drivers and most software for users, not developers. Open source, up til now, has been mostly written for developers. If you are satisfied developing Windows software on Linux with a paucity of drivers, that may be sufficient, otherwise users have to like Linux too.

    This is not to say that creating a slim and mean desktop for development might not be a good idea, but extending the OS to users is more important just now.
  • /* I know this is flame bait, but someone has to speak up: */

    Elitist? Why not...

    /* Why all the excitement for these sugar coating GUIs (KDE, GNOME, YADM). */

    Because for the first time since its inception, X can be used in a consistent manner if a user so chooses? Because Ease of Use is finally delivered?
    Becasue we no longer need to think about syntax of Window Manager Configuration files?

    /* Do i really give a ph*ck about themes? */

    Do you really want a desktop in varying shades of ugly grey?

    /* Can i impress the people in my office with the incredibly baroque-looking desktop i can configure? */

    Windows User - hey, its like Windows
    NeXTStep User - hey, its like...
    OS/2, Mac, Acorn, Amiga User......

    Get the picture?

    /* Can i write a 100 line Perl CGI? */

    In the easy to use, syntax highlighting editor with KDE yes, with Gnome, more than likely. Look ma! - programming without vi or emacs - editing made easy.

    /* These are for script kiddies, Perl schmucks and wintel wannabes */

    And people whose money will support hardware, software and ease of use development for Linux, while providing jobs for Unix geeks who program, document and package Linux. Sounds good to me.

    /* You want to develop, make real applications, all you need is emacs, some good elisp packages, and a clean desktop */

    A compiler always helps, too.

    Emacs sucking is another flamewar - but the UI of eother vi or emacs is hostile to point and click, or even casual explanation. It can be mastered, to award yourself points for mastering the trivia of Unix.

    A clean desktop - is this one with NO desktop functionality and a bunch of xterms? - thought so.

    /* I agree that things like the CORBA interfaces to desktop service is an excellent idea. Yes, I know that htere are more than developers out there and they have there needs too /*

    Nice to see them addressed after 20+ years of Unix.

    /* But all you out there talk about is themes, and and whether it plays solitaire and trivial sh*t like that. Don't pretend. */

    Themes are optional, and trendy, and playing solitaire is vital to the health of any office worker using Windows, and finally having a desktop to discuss is not trivial shit, given the wait Unix has had to get a desktop.

    George Russell

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