Following FEMA's Zombie Preparedness Plan Could Land You On Terrorist List 527
colinneagle writes "As if warning a zombie apocalypse is imminent, FEMA hosted a webinar for its Citizen Corps encouraging emergency planners 'to use the threat of zombies — the flesh-hungry, walking dead — to encourage citizens to prepare for disasters.' The problem is many of those recommendations would have you do things that would flag you as a possible terrorist according to The DOJ's controversial 'Potential Indicators of Terrorist Activities' guidelines. From the article: 'Don't be silly by thinking you must actually break the law before cops deem you a potential threat and report you. Paying with cash comes under numerous "you might be a terrorist if" lists. Whatever you do, stocking up on non-perishable food as the feds advise should not include buying "meals ready to eat" since that, too, is potentially suspicious and means you might be a terrorist. "Suspicious activity" at military surplus stores includes making "bulk purchases" of "weatherproofed ammunition or match containers and meals ready to eat, as does suspicious purchasing of "night vision devices include night flashlights and gas masks."'"
Are you a human being? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:5, Interesting)
Terrorism works by making people overestimate the risks to get the desired behaviour.
Much as I admire their sense of humour and proactive stance, FEMA appear to be the terrorists here, according to current government definitions of "terrorist" at least.
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:5, Insightful)
An eye opening moment on this subject was when CNN was doing some story and was talking to a single mother of two or three who wasn't well educated and living around Atlanta. This was two or three years after 911 and her life's biggest fear was terrorism. She lived in the outskirts of Atlanta and didn't work near any real target but thought the suicide bomber was coming at any minute.
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's more likely to kill you than a terrorist? Worrying about a terrorist.
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's remember that in the entire history of this country, we've been invaded once (by our Mother Country), attacked once (at Pearl Harbor), and been terrorized once (on 9/11). Moreover, we had really good intelligence in each case that these events were coming and simply screwed up managing that information (if you believe the official versions or allowed them to happen for one reason or another if you believe in conspiracies.)
The whole point of terrorism is similar to an allergic reaction. The response outweighs the event so dramatically that it does infinitely more harm than the event itself. That isn't to say that blowing up the twin towers wasn't an affront to human dignity. It is to say that the number of innocent people that died as a result of that affront so outnumber the affront itself as to dwarf it to near invisibility, and worse, most of the people that died were innocent Iraqi bystanders who had no dog in the fight to begin with. In an allergic reaction your immune system can charge all the way up to anaphylaxis and death all over a few peanut molecules. We have to be very careful to teach people to weigh threats according to reality and when we catch politicians using the boogie man to scare the public into voting for abominations and the gutting of the Constitution, we need to drag these people out in public places and show the nation who the real terrorists are.
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:5, Informative)
How soon we forget:
-War of 1812
-Mexican American War
-First World Trade Center
-Oklahoma City
-More bombings, assassinations, and other acts of terrorism too numerous to list.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Oh yea the war of 1812. When those 'peaceful' cannucks were able to get as far as washington dc and burn the white house(wasn't called that before the war.)
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:5, Funny)
And we'll still have TSA giving free prostate exams long after we've forgotten why...
Re: (Score:3)
The Flying Tigers were active duty airmen, not volunteers. This made their flights against the Japanese an act of war by the US government against Japan, well before the actual declared hostilities.
There are other factors, like how the US cut off Japan's oil supplies, and ferried B17's into the Philippines where the only imaginable target was Japan, but none of these were actually acts of war.
cej102937
Re: (Score:3)
Though in hindsight, it's actually a very good thing that the Pacific Fleet were caught with their pants down in the harbor: All the ships that sunk went down in about 40 feet of water, literally right next to the repair facilities and drydocks. As opposed to receiving advance warning, sailing out to meet the Japanese,
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Let's remember that in the entire history of this country, we've been invaded once (by our Mother Country), attacked once (at Pearl Harbor), and been terrorized once (on 9/11).
Pancho Villa in the early 1900s. The Japanese actually landed infantry in the Aleutians during World War II (if you want to be pedantic, Alaska wasn't a US state at the time, but whatever). There are wrecked ships, both civilian cargo vessels and military craft, all up and down the eastern seaboard from when German naval vessels attacked US shipping right off the coastline. US territorial sovereignty has been threatened or violated a lot more often than you think.
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's remember that in the entire history of this country, we've been invaded ...
Your "entire history" starts a little late. The Native Americans know the facts are different. Their land is still occupied by terrorist religious zealots.
Re: (Score:3)
If that lady were living in Israel or Helmand Province then I could understand her worry, but she was clearly crazy as you noted.
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:5, Informative)
Even in Israel the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are 1-2 orders of magnitude smaller than the chances of dying by, say, car crash.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/victims.html
125 dead since December 2005.
this is around 19 deaths/year average for this period.
car crashes kill around ~400/year average for this period.
Israel's population is ~7M.
and just like in the US, people are more afraid of terrorism than car crashes.
Disclaimer: I live in Israel.
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:5, Informative)
By my count from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States#2000s [wikipedia.org] there were about 23 terrorism related deaths from 2000-2009, excluding 9/11 (which can be safely considered an outlier). That's 2.3 deaths/yr. If we do include 9/11, it's 302deaths/yr.
From http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr60/nvsr60_03.pdf [cdc.gov] (I know it's only one year, I don't have time to compile a decade of statistics - but removal of any single outlier statistic shouldn't impact the overall message) page 89+.
Things that have killed ~2-3 people a year include:
-Measles (2)
-Malaria (3)
-Shigellosis (shingles) and amebiasis (4)
-Scarlet fever and erysipelas (5)
Things that have killed ~300 people/yr or more:
-Bronchitis and Bronchiolitis or other acute unspecified lower respirator infection (272)
-Diseases of appendix (426)
-Hyperplasia of prostate (446)
-Tuberculosis (529)
-Infections of kidney (604)
-Bronchitis, chronic and unspecified (639)
-Meningitis (649)
-Pregnancy, childbirth and the puerperium (6-weeks postnatal) (960)
-Malnutrition (2,680)
Even if you play mad-scientist with the statistics and assume that there will be a 9/11 every single year (~3000 deaths), these still kill about as many or more people a year
-Influenza (2,918)
-Cholelithiasis and other disorders of gallbladder (3,300)
-Asthma (3,388)
-Accidental drowning and submersion (3,517)
-Other and unspecified events of undetermined intent and their sequelae (4,773)
-Atherosclerosis (7,377)
-Viral hepatitis (7,694)
-HIV disease (9,406)
Things that GP mentioned:
Obesity (no single statistic, but assume a fraction of the 600,000 death by cardiac diseases are from obesity)
Cancer (Malignant neoplasms - 567,628)
Car accident (Motor vehicle accident - 36,216)
Non-terrorism based plane crash (Water/air/space/unspecified accident - 1,782)
Somebody elses gun (Homicide by firearm - 11,493)
Their own gun (Accidental discharge of firearms - 554)
Alcohol (24,518)
Stress (again, no single stat - assume a portion of Hypertensive heart disease (high blood pressure) with 33,157 death/yr)
I couldn't find stats for Dogs/Cats, Lack of healthcare (too vague) or Peanuts (although I did read several times an approximate rate of 150-200 deaths/yr from food allergens, a significant portion of which are from peanuts).
I know you weren't disagreeing with GP, but there you go.
Doesn't really matter (Score:3)
Although I agree with your (and the GP's) assessment that the fear for terrorism is extremely exaggerated, the statistics you give do not matter much for any person's fear of terrorism. The question is not what the likelihood is of some American dying of terrorism. The question is what my likelihood of dying from terrorism is.
Most people feel they can control lots of those other risks (or make them non-lethal) by caring for their health, eating well, thinking they are a superior driver, etc.
However, they fe
Re: (Score:3)
An eye opening moment on this subject was when CNN was doing some story and was talking to a single mother of two or three who wasn't well educated and living around Atlanta. This was two or three years after 911 and her life's biggest fear was terrorism. She lived in the outskirts of Atlanta and didn't work near any real target but thought the suicide bomber was coming at any minute.
So the terrorists have won. Or is it "the people who would use your ignorance and fear to manipulate you into doing things that you wouldn't normally do" who have won? Either way, we're fucked, so stop being ignorant and stupid, already. Tall order, I know. It's so easy to let Fox News tell us what to fear and how to think.
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:4, Insightful)
THIS IS NOT A FUCKING PARTISAN ARGUMENT!!
Your preferred party IS NOT the shining angel ready to save the country from the UNENDING EVIL of the other party.
Both parties suck. They're both full of unscrupulous douchebags who'll screw you for another constitutional exception.
They'll both enact policies bought and paid for by corporate donors, regardless of how bad they are for the country as a whole.
The sooner you partisan cheerleader IDIOTS start figuring this out, the sooner you can actually start to get the US climbing back out of the cesspool of shit you've been digging yourself into for the last few decades.
The two parties are turning the citizenry against each other by partisan bullshit propaganda, and most of you are too stupid or oblivious - maybe both - to realize you're being played by the very candidate you're cheerleading for.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:5, Informative)
When talking about the founding document of our country is enough to get you labeled as a possible "wrecker" then i think we can all agree the country has gone to shit.
Hate to tell you this, but that's not anything new. Unfortunately I can't recall the exact title of the book this story is from (something about the history of the First Amendment) -- it is from a published book with sources, but you'll just have to take my word on that. Or not, whatever.
Anyway, back during the height of the 'Red Scare', there was an IWW member (Industrial Workers of the World for anyone unfamiliar -- aka "wobblies") standing on a street corner doing nothing but publicly reading our own Declaration of Independence. After a few minutes, a police officer comes by and arrests him -- for doing nothing but publicly reading the US Declaration of Independence. Now, it just happened that he was doing this outside of an office building where the US Forest Service (IIRC) had some offices, and one of those workers happened to have his window open since it was a nice day out. This guy doesn't really sympathize with the IWW, but he sees this happening and is so outraged that he goes outside and picks up the reading where the other guy left off. And he got hauled off to jail as well.
So yea, reading the founding documents of our nation has been enough to get even government officials hauled off to jail for quite some time now, unfortunately....
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
there was an IWW member (Industrial Workers of the World for anyone unfamiliar -- aka "wobblies") standing on a street corner doing nothing but publicly reading our own Declaration of Independence. After a few minutes, a police officer comes by and arrests him
That was Frank Little [wikipedia.org].
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:4, Insightful)
The official UK government response? "Keep Calm & Carry On."
(Offtopic: yes, I realise us Brits were just as guilty of terror-based bombing campaigns during WWII.)
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:4, Funny)
Also, the government's official manual for dealing with terrorist events should says in large friendly letters: "Don't Panic".
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Re: (Score:3)
Fancy that, the one who believes "The West" means "America" is calling people names.
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey, that might be the case in the US, but in other parts of the world we Christians do expect the return of the Son of God, but:
1- We don't have any idea when and how it's going to be, things might happen in any order (people that think they got a clear idea of how things are going to be from reading Revelations really startle me) and it can be tomorrow as well as it could be in ten thousand years.
2- We don't try to make the apocalypse happen - people that think they have a roadmap on how to make it happen are walking a path of big arrogance. Nowhere in the bible does God ask for any help making such things happen. He only told us to love Him and to love others, and tell them about His love. There's nothing there about manipulating geopolitics to trigger anything or any crap like that. But I guess some people find all that love stuff boring and want to collaborate by invading some country or forcing someone to say they believe in Jesus.
Re:Are you a human being? (Score:4, Funny)
After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:
For many of those who are trying to "make the apocalypse happen", the above outlines that it can't happen until every nation, tribe, people, and language has been reached by the word of God. Hence groups like the Joshua Project. They want to get the word of God to everyone. Once everyone has been exposed to the word of God, the apocalypse is possible. And the apocalypse is a good thing for believers, so hell yes, let's get on with it. I think the idea to them is... Apocalypse means I get to get off this rock and on to eternal happy-times, apocalypse can't happen until everyone has had a chance to accept God, I need to get God's word out there so that we can get on with the apocalypse.
It's all very Halo/Convenant to me. Activate the rings... divine winds will whisp us off to heaven... everyone else is fucked.
A Muslim guy should make this a stand up routine. (Score:4, Funny)
Just rip off Foxworthy's act and replace redneck with terrorist.
You might be a terrorist if... (Score:3)
Whatever you do, stocking up on non-perishable food as the feds advise should not include buying "meals ready to eat" since that, too, is potentially suspicious and means you might be a terrorist.
You shop at Costco!
Re:A Muslim guy should make this a stand up routin (Score:4, Informative)
You are messing up the delivery. It has to follow the format.
If you (insert joke here) , you might be a terrorist.
Re: (Score:2)
If you (insert joke here) , you might be a terrorist.
I don't get it...
Re:A Muslim guy should make this a stand up routin (Score:5, Funny)
If you (don't get it), you might be a terrorist!
Re:A Muslim guy should make this a stand up routin (Score:4, Funny)
Re:A Muslim guy should make this a stand up routin (Score:4, Informative)
Sorry I don't watch SNL. I like comedies.
Easy (Score:4, Funny)
I buy all of my MREs at the Commissary on military bases. Nobody gives you a second look, just like nobody looks twice if you are wearing camouflage, carrying a gun and large rucksack, or running at 6 am on a Saturday.
Re:Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
Thing is these are all things that civilians ought to be able to do without arousing suspicion, too.
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Easy (Score:5, Funny)
I thought it was called 'being a parent'.
Ugh...
Re:Easy (Score:5, Insightful)
Being a parent requires you to have sex at least once. This is Slashdot.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
We have the right to bare arms, not the right to bare food.
We can get guns without arousing suspicion, but food, that you are opening up a new can of worms
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
We have the right to bare arms, not the right to bare food.
We can get guns without arousing suspicion, but food, that you are opening up a new can of worms
As long as the rest of you isn't bare, I won't complain if you wear short sleeved shirts,
Bare food is dangerous and should be cooked thoroughly
I just hope that the tin I open isn't full of worms.
Re:Easy (Score:4, Insightful)
Thing is these are all things that civilians ought to be able to do without arousing suspicion, too.
On the other hand, as soon as anyone goes full crazy, the media and internet forums are full of people breathlessly pouring over their purchase history, indignantly putting hands on hips and saying that somebody should have none such-and-such individual was up to no good because he purchased X thousands rounds of ammunition or what not. We saw it with the Aurora shooter, and the Virginia Tech guy, and doubtless several others.
If you're a bureaucrat making a public safety decision, it's nearly always better to err on the side of heavy-handness (and let your city/school/department/whatever get sued by the ACLU several years down the road) then to err on the side of civil liberties (and loose your job because some whack decides he needs to murder people for an idea/political philosophy/religion/voice in his head).
So how do we reconcile these things and remain a free and just society? I don't have the answer... and I doubt there's any one answer that is suitable for all times and places. Personally, I think it's legitimate/necessary for law enforcement to watch for suspicious activity and to have watch lists. But this can turn cancerous when such lists become a catch-all, when they are used to deprive people of rights without due process, or when they are used for systematic harassment (as revenge or "false positive" on an individual, or as a proxy for racism, for instance).
The good thing about this particular situation is that the DOJ is distributing specific, objective criteria to law enforcement; this helps temper the over-paranoid and clue-in the relaxed. The bad thing is that it conflicts with the sensible emergency-preparedness activities that FEMA has been encouraging. (As an aside: too bad we don't take EP more seriously. It would save a lot of lives if it did, and it'd be a good, concrete exercise in the quintessential spirit of American self-reliance.)
The list also seems a little on the paranoid side; I suspect this is because DHS is scared shitless of the lone wolf [wikipedia.org] terrorist. They can track cells/groups, but (according to this one guy in the 'biz) they've only been catching lone wolfs "by accident"... e.g., members of the public noticing something a little funny and reporting it. I don't approve of making "candles and boltcutters" a cause for suspicion, and yet I don't know how you re-design the system to be more... measured... in its approaches when people's careers depend on them finding needles in the haystack.
Re:Easy (Score:4, Insightful)
According to TFA, the Military are terrorists -
- Purchasing large quantities of ammunition, hydrogen peroxide (check the infirmaries), model aircraft fuel, compressed fuels.
- Unusually large quantities of fertilizer (well, not so sure about that one, but maybe they are teaming up with the Department of Agriculture).
- Large quantities of watches, electronic items - have you seen all the electronic gizmos that the DOD orders?
- A combination of unusual items - describes every military base I've ever seen
- Firearms and ammunition out of season - ditto.
- Night vision and camouflage equipment - double ditto; they have the very best night vision stuff, totally jealous.
- Pipe - I'll bet that the average military base orders thousands of feet of pipe (and pipe nipples) every year; do they tell you what they are going to use it for?
We'd better alert the Department of Homeland Security!
Please add me to the list. (Score:2, Interesting)
I suggest everyone ask to be added to the list.
Re:Please add me to the list. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Please add me to the list. (Score:4, Insightful)
Once everyone ends on this list, it becomes meaningless.
That sounds like a good idea, but there's always selective enforcement.
Re: (Score:2)
What makes you think we aren't, citizen?
Um, yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
*Actually* preparing for a zombie apocalypse should get you placed an some other lists as well.
Re:Um, yeah (Score:4, Interesting)
Out of the Zombie Preparedness groups, you *might* have a handful of people who are actually preparing for that. Zombies is to keep it humorous.
From What is Zombie Squad? [zombiehunters.org]
Re:Um, yeah (Score:4, Funny)
*Actually* preparing for a zombie apocalypse should get you placed an some other lists as well.
I'm not insane. My mother had me tested.
Home of the scared (Score:4, Interesting)
A while back something mildly Kafkaesque happened to a friend of mine, who owned a light aircraft (a rather old tatty one).
He bought a few items from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty - some paints for fabric-covered light planes, and a few items of hardware, to perform some general maintenance and tidy-up. They duly arrive by courier, and he picked them up from his apartment complex's management office. A couple of days later the FBI turn up at his apartment to check whether he's a terrorist! Apparently, the apartment manager saw a box from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty, saw my friend pick it up (who's skin colour is not perfectly white, somewhere between white and hispanic) and called the FBI who came out and investigated him.
Did he disappear? Was he tortured? (Score:2, Insightful)
No? Then the system of checks and balances still works.
People who talk about the gestapo never know what this truly means.
The Gestapo doesn't ask if you are guilty. They decide, then torture you for information or just kill you. And if a second after they decided, they get proof from god that your innocent? No difference. THAT IS DICTATORSHIP.
Everything else is freedom with a legal system. And if you thought your legal system doesn't mean things can happen like being arrested on a mere suspicion and questio
Re:Home of the scared (Score:4, Interesting)
The DOJ came knocking to my door one morning because 3 weeks earlier (11-sept-2003) my dad rented a car and was in northern California taking pics of a landscape at a major tourist location. In the landscape, there was a dam. My father is perfectly white-skinned but doesn't speak much English.
My wife answered the door (I was at work) and they kept her busy for a good 1h15m playing bad cop good cop and not telling her what it was all about. Only in the end did they reveal the purpose of their visit and we were able to piece it all together.
Re:Home of the scared (Score:5, Informative)
For future reference, if you ever have anyone claiming to be with law enforcement come to your door claiming they want to talk/look around, you tell them you want to see a warrant first. If they fail to produce a warrant, you can be assured that either A) they have no case and are on a phishing expedition, of which you are not required to hold the net, or B) they aren't really LEO's, but rather con artists trying to work you over.
Either way, if they fail to produce a warrant ("we just want to talk" is a popular diversionary tactic to trick you into volunteering information you have no legal obligation to give), politely inform them they are trespassing and request they remove themselves from the property before you call the real cops.
Oh, and this should all be done through a mail slot or chain-locked door - many LEO's are under the impression that if their entry into your home isn't physically barricaded, they can just waltz right in without explicit permission (they can't, unless you've got some blatantly illegal shit sitting out where they can see it).
Better safe than sodomized.
Re: (Score:3)
I agree with this, but I also wonder about this in an age where there's several lists kept by the Powers That Be. There's the "We Haven't Questioned You Yet" list, the "We Questioned You And Decided Your're a Moron and Not a Threat" list and then several levels of "You Are Suspicious" lists.
Everybody seems to be on the "We Haven't Quesitoned You Yet" list -- I'd worry that being relatively aggressive with my assertion of rights might somehow get me moved to one of the "Keep an Eye on This One" lists. In t
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Best advice I can give: Never talk to cops. [youtube.com] Sounds like your wife got first hand experience on why.
I'm sure that you think you're right, but if I ask for a warrant, then two things can happen:
A/ They don't get one. They may however remember my name and address, but otherwise I'm safe.
B/ They get a warrant. Then I'm sure I'm toast as hell. They'll put my house in such a mess it'll take a week to clean the place up.
All in all, my wife lost 1:15 of her morning and now we've got a story to tell. Plus we were on an H1b VISA and believe or not, the same laws don't apply to immigrants. Immigrants just get depor
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Well, cowing to fascists may work for you, but I would rather risk the further illegal harrassment (which I WILL be documenting and reporting) than drop to my knees every time Big Brother jiggles his zipper.
If for you spending 1 hour talking to cops is the equivalent of sucking big brother dick, I think the problem is on you. Moreover, you'll be glad you taped the whole thing when they smash your Galaxy SIII on the floor before getting on your way to Guantanamo. BTW, if you despise your police force that much, maybe it's time to move to another country... From your comment, you seem to have balls. If you have brains as well, you'll be on your way soon enough, because by the looks of it, the situation is not ge
I saw one guy get nailed (Score:3)
They questioned him as a witness to one crime, with wich he had nothing to do and was perfectly innocent. But during the questioning he ended up laying some crumbs with a few wrong words, which the investigator followed, and ended up in him being arrested for another crime (adultery, he was in the military).
It may not be adultery for you, but maybe something you didn't even know was a crime. Maybe you admitted to sightseeing along a highway in Nevada, and off-handedly mentioned how much you love camels too.
You're suspicious (Score:5, Funny)
By reading this comment you're even more suspicious.
Want to admit something, terrorist?
Eh, seen it before (Score:5, Interesting)
There was, of course, an infiltration investigation. The infiltrator apparently tried to incite the members into criminal acts, specifically, robbing a bank. By the end of the investigation, only one person spent time in prison, and that was because he had modified an AR-15 to full-auto. But, people who were friends with this man and others in the group probably had their phones tapped and all of the various groups around these people were nervous.
Oh, by the way, did I mention that the convicted man and the others were also heavily involved in Fandom, so basically all Fandom around here was somewhat investigated? That's basically why I know about it, because there are still a lot of bitter people in local Fandom because of this.
The media referred to the group as, "The Viper Militia". Having been acquainted with some of these people that's a bit of a stretch. Even using "Team" in their name was a stretch, they were about as organized as a clowder of cats, as most Fandom is.
So, in my opinion, it's all a big friggin' joke.
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The part that bothers me is that the FBI tries to entrap them, get them to commit a crime where they normally wouldn't have done it. And in the end, you know those wiretaps are still around. There is no way to order the FBI to close the case, clear the files, and let these people get back to their old lives.
The Ruby Ridge fiasco shows how badly the government can behave in this regard.
Night Flashlight?? (Score:3, Funny)
So that has been my problem all along. I always have used my day flashlights at night, now I know what I was doing wrong.
Buying bulk purchases of food (Score:3)
There have been numerous reports of the Homeland inSecurity demanding customer lists from bulk supply stores/online merchants. Some stores say "no" but some other stores happily hand it over. Then the customers on the list get visits from the DHS officers requesting permission to search those homes.
Why would a terrorist need ready to eat meals???? (Score:3)
Seriously? I can't think of a reason.
Terrorism is usually something done in a very short time window. I don't think the hijackers on 9/11 took a coffee break to cook up some ramen in the middle of the flight.
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Not to mention the fact that many of the acts of terrorism these days involve suicide bombers. Maybe the assumption is that terrorists all live in secluded bunkers in the middle of nowhere and don't have ready access to McDonald's?
What I like is "buying firearms outside of season". Okay, hunting rifles, I can sort of see--except for the fact that many gun stores hold sales in the off season in order to keep customers coming in. But what about handguns? Is there a "handgun season" I don't know about? So
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Mormon's are Terrorists (Score:5, Funny)
Our church leaders have continually told us that we should have both a 72 hr kit and a year's food storage. Its not uncommon for a food storage order make its rounds at church every few months or for there to be classes taught during the week on canning and food storage meal prep. Tack on the fact that besides organizations like Walmart & the Red Cross, we have the largest food production & distribution network, all in house and mostly staffed by volunteers.
I guess all of that make us one of the largest terrorist networks in the world. And here you thought that our missionaries were just there to annoy you with offers of Mormon Videos & a copy of the Book of Mormon. Never underestimate the clean white shirt, pressed dark pants, tie and the infamous black & white name tag.
Re: (Score:2)
A 72 hour kit is a fairly basic safety precaution. A years food storage is fairly reasonably especially for people that are growing a significant portion of there own food.
At this point... (Score:3)
Wouldn't it be easier to just add EVERYONE to the terror list? I was about to say "and drop off those who have been cleared", but I couldn't stop laughing long enough to add it.
Paying cash is a problem? (Score:2)
Glad that cash is still widely used in Europe and in the rest of the world. It would be a sad day when you can't buy something without giving up your privacy or when you can't buy something with cash and immediately being flagged as a terrorist suspect. Frankly, wtf?
Kinda interested. (Score:5, Funny)
TFA's 2 points about over/under - interest in radio controlled aircraft, I can see it now: "Good morning sir, I'm somewhat interested in radio controlled aircraft and would like to purchase one. Now, don't get me wrong, I do have a interest that sits above just a casual interest, however I'm also not overly interested in them, in fact, I'd say I'm about just the right amount of interested in radio controlled aircraft to buy one, but not so interested that it'd be suspicious.... say, who are you calling?"
If I'm walking dead (Score:2, Insightful)
So, here's a question... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:So, here's a question... (Score:4, Insightful)
They should just be accepted as a cost of freedom and rejected as a highly improbable occurrence.
In addition, the U.S. gov't should stop oppressing people both at home and abroad. If they spent as much time looking after the interests of the average citizen and the common good of all Americans, and not just the wealthiest, most influential in the top one tenth of one percent of the population, we would not be the target of terrorist attacks.
Pretty general terrorist criteria (Score:2)
With a list like that I'm surprised that the noise level isn't so high it makes the data pretty much useless.
You might be a terrorist if you're buying freeze dried meals, survival equipment, ammo (especially out of season), camouflage gear and night vision equipment, etc (all from the list). Then again you might be preparing for a backpacking trip, a cost conscious hunter, prepping for unlikely events, or any number of things normal people are extremely likely to do.
PITA? (Score:4, Insightful)
Way to go L.A.! (Score:4, Funny)
"... the LAPD adopted 15 of the DOJ's ridiculous lists regarding 'Potential Indicators of Terrorist Activities.' "
Yeah, because nothing ever goes wrong in L.A. that citizens would need to be prepared for.
Except for riots. And earthquakes. And the whole place burning down every year. But other than that, it's just like you see on TV.
Let's Poison this Fucking Well (Score:5, Funny)
Also, let's agree to stop buying firearms, ammunition, fuels, adhesives, plumbing bits, et. al., with anything but cash.
Dress in cammies. All. The. Time. This is especially important to do when taking photographs of infrastructure as mentioned above.
Have a poker night with your buddies, or a member of a DnD club? Make your meetings (and communications regarding meetings) as cloak-and-dagger as possible, to give the impression that you're engaging in some sort of nefarious activity.
In essence, let's poison the holy living FUCK out of this well - give them so many false positives, they'll be forced to scrap the whole project.
I have to call FUD on this one (Score:3)
No one has ever posted, at least to my knowledge, about being questioned, harassed or contacted by any official in the midst of their activities; and while that doesn't mean they aren't silently placed on some watchlist, I think it's unlikely; especially given the number of natural disasters the North American continent has seen in recent years. It just makes sense to stock up on some supplies. Not every government agency is the TSA. It's a losing argument for the feds because the CDC and FEMA promote survival saavy; if a serious terrorist attack occurs again, or a hurricane/flood/wildfire/earthquake/tornado strikes, victims in that area will need some of those survival skills and gear, and they know it.
Some of the items do seem out-of-place... (Score:3)
The premise is to prepare for a zombie attack, correct?
"Suspicious activity" at military surplus stores includes making "bulk purchases" of "weatherproofed ammunition"
There are two constants when it comes to zombies:
"night vision devices"
Aside from the specific problem of thermal imaging not working too well on the walking dead (who are likely ambient temperature), passive night-vision technologies are generally intended to be able to see in the dark without being seen yourself. I don't recall many examples of zombies being that reliant on their visual senses (assuming they even still have eyes).
gas masks.
A zombie hoard's main weapons are tenacity and numbers, not mustard gas and sarin. Zombie plagues tend to spread by fluid exchange (e. g. biting) rather than airborne agents.
Homeland Security wants us to prepare for zombies. These items don't seem to prepare one for zombies very well.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I have some MREs in my car and a few in my basement that get replaced periodically for emergencies.
I guess I am both a moron and a terrorist then. I can tell you I know nothing about food storage. I am not also stocking up for a siege. I live in an area with snow and I might get caught without food on accident.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I think he meant you're a moron if you're buying them in bulk. Living off of them for a couple days to a couple weeks sure, but there are much better options out there for long term survival than MREs.
Re:Not suspicious (Score:5, Interesting)
I plan on buying a few cases myself. I live in PA. We get snowstorms. I now live in an area with very large trees, with some hills. It might take a few days with a chainsaw to get my driveway open again if two very large trees fell across. I roll my eyes at the current zombie fad. I want to be warm, comfy and well fed for a couple weeks even if three feet of snow is dumped on me, like the Blizzard of 1996.
If that lands me on some list, you know what. Good. At this point, those lists should be seen as a challenge and not a behavior inhibitor. If you're not on at least three watchlists, your life is not particularly interesting. Take up a couple hobbies.
Re: (Score:2)
If that lands me on some list, you know what. Good. At this point, those lists should be seen as a challenge and not a behavior inhibitor. If you're not on at least three watchlists, your life is not particularly interesting. Take up a couple hobbies.
I like this... And if I get stuck on the never to be fixed no-fly list, so be it. Air travel has gotten so bad I drove from Houston to Orlando for vacation... Pay cash everywhere! Get "Cash Customer" on all the watch lists!
Re:Not suspicious (Score:4, Funny)
If that lands me on some list, you know what. Good. At this point, those lists should be seen as a challenge and not a behavior inhibitor. If you're not on at least three watchlists, your life is not particularly interesting. Take up a couple hobbies.
I like this... And if I get stuck on the never to be fixed no-fly list, so be it. Air travel has gotten so bad I drove from Houston to Orlando for vacation... Pay cash everywhere! Get "Cash Customer" on all the watch lists!
Dammit, now I want an "achievements" section on the DHS web site so I can see what I can go for next.
Re:Not suspicious (Score:5, Insightful)
No, you are just gullible. MREs are basically tinned food in a bag. The reason the military want them in a bag is because they are lighter and take up marginally less space. For civilians where lightness nor space are a consideration, buy tinned food, you will save a lot of money and not be scammed by inflated profit margins just because you bought your food in bags rather than tins. Note you will also get greater variety.
Re:Not suspicious (Score:5, Interesting)
Space and weight are always relevant, even if you are a civilian. This is why civilian canneries have started using the MRE approach with civilian food products.
Re:Not suspicious (Score:5, Informative)
They're also very calorie dense; each MRE is about 2,000 calories. They're made for rangers toting 80# rucks 12 hours a day, not wannabes sitting in the living room.
MREs are OK for a few days, but after that they will mess with your internal plumbing too they are so loaded with preservatives.
You're much better off buying the semi-instant rice, noodles, and potatos at the grocery store, and paying attention to the nutrition information.
Re:Not suspicious (Score:4, Insightful)
They would be Meals that Refuse to Exit.
Re:Not suspicious (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Not suspicious (Score:4, Informative)
Most canned goods have a 3 year shelf live based and that time is based on a consistent taste and advertised nutritional valve. An MRE loses taste and nutitional value in the same manner and is also degrades with large temperature changes just as a canned good does.
This is an example from Hormel regarding their "use by date" from their FAQ at http://www.hormelfoods.com/faqs.aspx#can1 [hormelfoods.com]
What is the shelf life of a Hormel Foods product in an unopened can?
The processing techniques utilized by Hormel Foods makes the canned product safe for use indefinitely if the product seal remains intact, unbroken and securely attached to a can that has been well maintained. It is suggested that all canned products be stored in a cool and dry environment to keep the flavor adequately preserved. For maximum flavor it is recommended that the product be used within three years of the manufacturing date. After that period of time, the product is still safe to use however, the flavor gradually declines.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes, because a pantry, garage, or storm shelter are finite, and neither is a soldier's backpack, the storage issues are the same and the tiny improvement in density that is worth it for a soldier is also obviously a good tradeoff for a civie stocking up said pantry, garage, or storm shelter.
Re: (Score:3)
There's a joke among the infantry: "MREs are three lies in one acronym", as they are not really "meals", they aren't really "ready-to-eat", nor are they strictly-speaking "edible".
If you have some free time and a *very* strong stomach, look around for some stories of the gastrointestinal distress living off MREs can cause.
Re: (Score:3)
The difference between MRE and non-parishables is the idea that an MRE is something you will be eating in an expected warfare condition. (Where you don't have the opportunity to make a camp fire, and live in an area and move out quickly) vs. Canned foods, where you have supplies where you would have a camp fire to cook, and setup a place to either reuse the cans or have a place to leave your garbage.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
MRE is convinent for a quick meal that takes up a small space if you have the ability to heat or cook it if required. For longer term survivability, they are not a good choice. I have a kit similar to this [costco.com]. You can still prepare for an emergency with standard off the shelf stuff from your grocery store without looking like a paranoid terrorist. Cans of meat like SPAM and DAK/hormel canned hams, canned and dried soups, tuna in oil, fruits, vegtables, all have shelf lives in the 2-4 year range. All of the
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You won't believe how hard it was to invent the 'flashdark'.
Re: (Score:3)
I think they mean infrared flashlights that will show up on IR goggles but not to the unaided eye.
Re: (Score:2)
Dunno, I think that one fits pretty well... "Hey guys, we've got another PITA to investigate."