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Microsoft Operating Systems Windows IT

Windows 11 Start Menu Ads Look Set To Get Even Worse (techradar.com) 109

Microsoft is heading further down the path of advertising its own services in Windows 11, with different ads now popping up in the Start menu. From a report: To be precise, this is Windows 11 preview build 23435, which was just released to the Dev channel. As Microsoft puts it: "We are continuing the exploration of badging on the Start menu with several new treatments for users logging in with local user accounts to highlight the benefits of signing in with a Microsoft account (MSA)." So, the translation of this is that 'badging' is essentially advertising ('badgering' would perhaps be more accurate), and it's something we've recently seen with Windows 11 urging users to perform a cloud backup (in OneDrive).

In this new preview build, the prodding stick is being employed to nudge those who haven't enlisted for a Microsoft Account (who remain using a local account) into signing up for an MSA. Compared to the previous cloud backup prompt on the Start menu, it's even clearer that this is advertising because it's fully selling the benefits of having a Microsoft account. For example, Microsoft tells you how hooking your Windows 11 installation into an MSA will ensure that your PC is kept backed up and more secure, or that it'll keep your settings synced across multiple devices.

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Windows 11 Start Menu Ads Look Set To Get Even Worse

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  • by Fons_de_spons ( 1311177 ) on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @02:06PM (#63462208)
    comming to a PC near you soon?
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Adblocking programs already exist and work just fine on Windows 11. However, this appears to be something that is built into the OS, and they aren't really "ads" in the normal sense.

      Fortunately, I have a LTSB version of Windows 10 that is supported for 5 more years. Maybe someday Microsoft will pull their head out of their ass and stop making Windows worse. but I won't hold my breath.
      • by ichthus ( 72442 )

        Fortunately, I have a LTSB version of Windows 10 that is supported for 5 more years. Maybe someday Microsoft will pull their head out of their ass and stop making Windows worse. but I won't hold my breath.

        Isn't delaying an upgrade in order to dodge unwanted behavior the tech equivalent of holding your breath?

      • Microsoft will stop making Windows worse when people stop buying new versions and not a moment sooner.
        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          Little known fact, if you buy a brand new PC with Windows 11, you can downgrade it to Windows 10. The licence grants you that right, and Windows 10 will usually pick up the product key and activate online automatically.

          Windows 11 looks like a dud. Wait for 12.

          The real tragedy is that in a couple of years when Windows 10 support ends there are going to be hundreds of millions of perfectly good computers that end up in landfill because they aren't safe to use anymore.

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      It already exists. In fact, you can even find pre-modded ISOs of win 11 with all the crapware ripped out. I like to use ghostspectre myself, as it gives me windows XP level of memory and CPU background usage in windows 11 on system start. Very noticeable on systems with more constrained memory and CPU resources.

        • by caseih ( 160668 )

          Is it legal to distribute modified Windows 11 ISO images? Probably not.

          Is it legal to use such an ISO image? Sure. Why wouldn't it be? The moment it becomes illegal to remove software from your computer we're in serious trouble.

        • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

          Using it? Yes. It's just a modded win11 ISO. Those were a thing since at least XP days, when I started running one. Technically you can make one yourself if you want. Microsoft provides instructions for it.

          Distributing it is a bit of a gray area, as microsoft makes windows 10 and 11 ISO free to download from their site, AND provides instructions on how to modify them for your needs. But is distributing pre-modded ISO legal?

        • Is it legal?

          Will the feds break down your door if you delete a DLL file from your disk or use Windows' registry editor?

          IANAL but I'd say no.

    • it would be better to put ad blocking in to routers so all the devices on the local area network gets the benefits
      • by bjwest ( 14070 )

        it would be better to put ad blocking in to routers so all the devices on the local area network gets the benefits

        That would be what Pi-hole [pi-hole.net] is for.

  • "Ads" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Zak3056 ( 69287 ) on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @02:10PM (#63462216) Journal

    This is one of those usages of the word "ads" that may be correct by a strict definition, but is probably not what most people think of when they hear the word "ad." This appears to be no different than your iphone whining that you should log into your itunes account so you can use icloud, the app store, etc.

    • both are obnoxious.
      i'd love a global setting for iOS/Windows/etc for "fuck off and leave me alone"
      alas, this is not the world we live in.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by 0xG ( 712423 )
        There is.
        Set up your own DNS server on a pi.
        Use pi—hole or Technitium to filter all ads and tracking in your LAN.
        There are multiple (free) subscription services you can get for blacklists.
        Its a small project but fun and works like a charm.
        • I have a similar setup.. my adblocking and encrypted DNS proxy are on skybox and I a nearly ad free internet life. But ads are embedded into the content on their server, by definition, cannot be blocked... I suspect that the case here. .. how are the ads served?
      • I think there should be legislation like the do not call list for calling. You should be able to say no and report them if they ask again.

        I personally like the idea of being able to charge for my time. That is next time you ask it will be a $1000 fee, go ask again I dare you. I did that once to a company that insisted on calling to tell me about the services, I emailed them and told them I would charge the $100 each time they called, surprisingly they never called again.

        Perhaps if we start a campaign to ema

    • It is a prompt for an additional services. It is an ad by the loosest definition.
      They want your data. They also want to put more and more and more and more ads up to force you into an overprice sub service that will remove 33% of said ads.
      What good is an M$ account? Halo is dead to me and if they publish a game I want to play, I will get the TPB Edition of said game. I have no use for it. I don't trust Microsoft claims on security either.
      Why would I use Microsoft 365 and all the ads and nonsense when Lib
      • It is an ad by the loosest definition.

        Eh? What would your "strict" definition of "ad" would be that excludes these?

        Third-party ads are a late-comer invention.

    • This is one of those usages of the word "ads" that may be correct by a strict definition, but is probably not what most people think of when they hear the word "ad."

      So what you're saying is, it's an ad? Thanks for muddying that up for us.

    • This is one of those usages of the word "ads" that may be correct by a strict definition, but is probably not what most people think of when they hear the word "ad." This appears to be no different than your iphone whining that you should log into your itunes account so you can use icloud, the app store, etc.

      I dunno - I think most people see advertising as propaganda trying to convince them to do something that isn't necessarily in their own best interests, but is absolutely beneficial to the party doing the advertising. By that definition, "iphone whining" and similar ploys would be interpreted as advertising.

    • Not only that but itâ(TM)s a preview build where they deliberately try weird things and the author is complaining about it⦠lmao
    • by Anonymous Coward

      This appears to be no different than your iphone whining that you should log into your itunes account so you can use icloud, the app store, etc.

      You don't think that is fucked up and abnormal? You might be desensitized to it now, but I bet if your computer in 1999 did that, if you didn't slamthrow it onto the floor with all your might, you would at least upgrade it to something which doesn't suck so much. What's different now?

  • That MS Accounts become fully mandatory, with no "bypassnro" option available. It will probably be backed by Pluton as well. You already need an account to unlock S-Mode devices, so I am forced to use an MS Account on my surface tablet even if my other devices have escaped it for now. Stock up on Linux isos while you can, but even Gnome prompts you to connect your online accounts to it.
    • but even Gnome prompts you to connect your online accounts to it.

      Just don't use Gnome. KDE exists and if you absolutely must have GTK, Xfce exists. And there's plenty of other DEs built on GTK/Qt toolkits. And then you have the various titling wms and if that's not enough, you've got Pop OS doing their whole new widget toolkit iced-rs over there and Enlightenment's EFL, if you really dislike GTK and Qt.

      I'm sure the Gnome folks love Gnome and it ain't my taste but to each their own I guess. But we've got plenty of options so if Gnome gets too crazy, we've got places t

      • Just don't use Gnome.

        Nothing wrong with Gnome as long as you use the correct version. Use version 2, still maintained & known as MATE [mate-desktop.org], it is an improvement over previous and subsequent versions of Gnome.

      • KDE exists and if you absolutely must have GTK, Xfce exists.

        Indeed, you can run the apps you want on the DE you want. GTK apps work fine on Plasma, and KDE apps work fine on Mate or Xfce.

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      They already did that in installer. The problem is that they still need to enable offline account creation for certain scenarios, so the question is more about "how to reach it" than anything else.

      And there are plenty of modded ISOs of win 11 around that among other things rip out the online account functionality entirely.

    • Last I checked you can still disable S-mode without an account by editing the registry offline via the recovery console. Have they patched that? Or do you just mean you need one to do it in an 'official' documented way?
  • More ads in the start menu? Why are any ads in the start menu? Why is the OS being used as various billboards?
    • Yes
      Because marketing and accounting said to add them
      Because the vast majority of people love ads on everything it seems. M$ has learned from Google and Apple.
    • Because Microsoft left the OS business and is now a data broker, like every other tech company out there.

  • by twocows ( 1216842 ) on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @02:27PM (#63462276)
    With how difficult it is to even get a local account on Windows 11 at this point, do they really think the people using them are going to be swayed by literal ads inserted into basic features? I use an MS account to sign in myself, but for fuck's sake, respect people's choices.
    • by 0xG ( 712423 )
      Ever get locked out of your account?
      Submit a multi-page form to Microsnot.
      Wait two weeks for them to grant you access to YOUR computer.
      If you are lucky.
      Happened to my wife, who frequently forgets passwords...
    • do they really think the people using them are going to be swayed by literal ads inserted into basic features?

      Wait, do you really think people are not?

      • In order to use a local account on Windows 11, you have to either be using Enterprise or you have to use a tool like Rufus to bypass specific measures that Microsoft put in place to prevent you from creating a local account. I do not think the people who have jumped through a sufficient number of hoops to get a local account set up are going to be swayed by Microsoft putting ads in the start menu extolling the virtues of the thing they very clearly want nothing to do with.
        • by tbords ( 9006337 )
          All this will do is make life even more miserable for members of IT who now need to constantly tell users "No, we aren't going to let you sign in to your personal MS account on company laptops just because Microsoft says so." all while explaining to C-Levels that "This is not a security vulnerability, this is just a cash/information grab by MS to pad their bottom line"
        • In order to use a local account on Windows 11, you have to either be using Enterprise or you have to use a tool like Rufus to bypass specific measures that Microsoft put in place to prevent you from creating a local account.

          Did they block no@thankyou.com?

    • I think Microsoft should take the hint, if you can't give it away for free, you have to hide the option through obscure workarounds, then perhaps what you are trying to sell is just not wanted.

      The moment they force me to have a Microsoft account is the moment I remove windows from my PC, games be dammed.

      No means no, my computer my choice.

  • by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @02:28PM (#63462278)

    Another reason I'm so happy my systems are too old to run Windows 11 -- in an officially supported way, even though they run Windows 10 just fine. So thanks MS for pushing me to *finally* move to using my Linux systems full-time/permanently -- Mint, previously, Ubuntu which is a whole other story, though I imagine most can guess why, starting with (hint) forced Snap ... So thanks Canonical for pushing me to switch my Linux systems from Ubuntu 18.04 (Mate) to Mint 21 (Cinnamon).

    • I hear Ubuntu is dropping snap, which is funny because I just dropped them for not dropping snap

      But now I'm on Devuan where I don't have to mess with systemd, I only have to mess with programs written by lameasses who think that systemd is the only init system on linux.

      • I hear Ubuntu is dropping snap, which is funny because I just dropped them for not dropping snap

        Sadly this was an April Fool's joke. Even if it were true they'd probably shift to Flatpak

      • by bn-7bc ( 909819 )
        Systemd is an init system and a service manager (maybe other things as well but I'm not shore). The lameasses you talked about might be using the service manager.part of systemd. Ok the binary logs might be a problem, but hey you can configure systemd to send all logs yo syslogd ( or any other logging daemon)if you want. Is systemd perfect? No ofc not, no software is snd some of its config defaults , like killing all users processes on logout, thus breaking things like screen/tmux was bad but have been corr
        • If the only problem with systemd was binary logs, I'd probably learn to live with it.

          But since it's actually an unreliable clusterfuck that creates more problems than it solves, no thanks.

    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      Problem is that if you're a gamer, it's a non-starter, and PC gaming really took off in last decade.

      That and there's quite a lot of specialized software that isn't available on linux.

      • Problem is that if you're a gamer, it's a non-starter, and PC gaming really took off in last decade.

        That and there's quite a lot of specialized software that isn't available on linux.

        Tell that to my Linux Mint gaming PC. I admit my requirements are not super high end, but so far everything I have wanted to play has either had a Linux port or runs just fine in Proton.

        • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

          Sure. Dear mint gaming PC. You fucking suck. Your compatibility is awful, your performance is garbage, and having to keep fighting to find exact config to make the game run without problems is beyond annoying.

          Very few people who enjoy gaming also enjoy the metagaming of having to fuck with system settings to get a lot of modern games to run.

          • by bn-7bc ( 909819 )
            Not to mention anti cheat sw, if you ever want to do some online comop or pvp
            • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

              Then not only will it not work, but sometimes mark you as a cheater in the system so when you log in on windows PC, it will drop you to cheater's queue in some multiplayer games.

          • Sure. Dear mint gaming PC. You fucking suck. Your compatibility is awful, your performance is garbage, and having to keep fighting to find exact config to make the game run without problems is beyond annoying.

            Very few people who enjoy gaming also enjoy the metagaming of having to fuck with system settings to get a lot of modern games to run.

            Not sure where the hate is coming from. It just works. (TM)

            • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

              Probably from having to fuck with things not working as a matter of routine, while being gaslit by fanboys that it works, you're just holding it wrong.

      • Problem is that if you're a gamer, it's a non-starter, and PC gaming really took off in last decade.

        That and there's quite a lot of specialized software that isn't available on linux.

        Sure, although those don't apply for me. I do maintain a Windows 10 VM on my Linux system that I'll keep around for a while. I may try to configure the VM so Windows will see it as a system that can support Windows 11 and, perhaps, try to "upgrade" it when Windows 10 goes EOL. For either Windows 10/11, that would probably work at least for the specialized software you mentioned, but don't know about games requiring Windows.

        • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

          Even if it would, performance tends to be abysmal.

          Here's hoping for Steam's steamdeck implementation to get ported to desktop variants of linux and supported directly by valve. That would solve a lot of problems.

    • Ubuntu is also shoving ads everywhere now. You can disable them, but they keep adding new ones.
  • i It's hilarious to me that Windows 7 was far easier to use than Windows 11. They've made so many stupid, non-intuitive UX changes in 8/10/11 that nobody asked for, which collectively make the OS harder to use in my opinion. Now they are badgering their customers in ways that leave a very, very bad taste in my mouth. Every day I am closer to abandoning Windows all together. They just. don't. get. it. Or they don't care. Well I care enough that Windows might get replaced with Linux.
    • They stopped caring about making customers happy, and focused on the non-important items that nobody asked for, in an attempt to generate more revenue. This is how to identify a dying brand. They are tying to be Apple without the gravitas of Apple.

      As such, I'm seriously thinking of just going over to the dark side of Apple. Not really but it has crossed my mind on occasion. While I have and do use Linux, it still has shortcomings. Desktop Android Anyone?

      • It reminds me a lot of the MMO makers that try to make a WoW clone, but can't get the hint that people play their game exactly because it's not WoW. Because if they wanted WoW, they would play that.

      • by bn-7bc ( 909819 )
        Newsflash, microsoft is a company, an entety specifically set up to maximize proffit for their owners, so thst is what thay care about unkess they piss off costumers enugh to hurt next qouarters numbers they do not give a shit,
    • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

      From my experience, win 7 was much better for power users. For average users, "it just works until it doesn't" apple model that was transplanted to win10 and win11 seems to be better. Most don't even adjust start menu to its proper place or turn off widget crap. Because they don't know how. And don't care to learn.

    • The main problem is that since 8, Windows has been designed towards touch based tablets even though the vast majority of Windows installations is still desktop/laptop focused. For example every single setting uses as much white space as possible and hides options under multiple pages. MS may have thought they would be tablet focused by now but that has not been the case as their tablets have been largely a failure.
    • Windows 11 is a lot like when your girlfriend moves in with you. Everything you had is probably still there, but it sure ain't where you expect it to be or where you put it.

    • I replaced Windows at home years ago, apart from one dual boot laptop set up for the couple of older games I play on occasion.

      That Windows 7 has no drivers to connect to any network, and all games are stand-alone installations (inside separate Sandboxie boxes).
      And if you really want to play that game that's only on Steam, there's surely a repack on a certain fit girl's site.

  • Microsoft greed (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Walt Dismal ( 534799 ) on Wednesday April 19, 2023 @02:39PM (#63462328)

    The idea of incorporating inescapable ads into an operating system is abominable. If you have to pay for an operating system, being forced to accept ads is pure greed.

    • ... pure greed.

      No, at the moment, they're advertising free Microsoft products: They want your data, just like Google and Facebook. It's easy to see where they're heading.

      I'm certain they'll escalate to Office 365 and other subscription-based products they already advertise on live.com. Then, it will be products from business partners. Then, it will be the same "personalized marketing" that Google and Facebook offer.

    • More like enshitification if you ask me.

      Want to know when a company is too big? When a majority of their customers complain about it and for "some reason" they just keep using it...
      Windows, AT&T, Comcast, Verizon, Nintendo...
      All have a few things in common, they actively despise their user base and it shows.

      Must be nice when you can just buy yourself protection from government oversight...

  • This replaces the start menu (and other components)....the start menu icon replacement is a little shaky, but overall I've been using this:
    https://github.com/Open-Shell/... [github.com]

    for years now....

  • That's what Windows amounts to these days.

    Then again, the concept of actually owning your own computer for the masses is just a few decades of history. A tiny little blip.
    As is the internet.

    What's a few ads in a start-menu when compared to where we're headed, it's laughable, really.

    It's the minority who say "no" to things like this, by switching - but the vast majority don't care, don't know - and we'll sleepwalk further into a complete invasion of privacy and a complete inability to survive without ... I'l

    • sleepwalking is such an apt term for the decade or so.

    • by swell ( 195815 )

      It isn't your computer, of course. It belongs to your employer / organization.

      Microsoft sells to business, government, universities, etc. And a few individuals also buy because they are sheep and that's all they know. M$ cares only about the big buyers. And, guess what, the big buyers don't care if adverts show up on the screen for their employees. Especially if they think it brings a discount in the price.

      For the 1% of individuals who don't like the ads and complain, crocodile tears will flow, but the ads

  • "users logging in with local user accounts to highlight the benefits of signing in with a Microsoft account"

    Microsoft you need to fuck all the way off on this. I don't use MS crap at home, but we do at work. Until the day I can't make a local account for my users. For security reasons my employer says, "Not now, not EVER!" I bet we are not alone in this stance either.
    • by dskoll ( 99328 )

      I expect the expensive "Business" versions of Windows won't have this crap.

      Though I do wonder just exactly how many anti-features MSFT has to add before users rebel and switch. Probably an infinite number, unfortunately, given their de facto monopoly position.

      • I expect the expensive "Business" versions of Windows won't have this crap.

        Though I do wonder just exactly how many anti-features MSFT has to add before users rebel and switch. Probably an infinite number, unfortunately, given their de facto monopoly position.

        I'll take that bet. Already Win 11 Pro already needs a process I have to look up every time I reinstall a laptop. The process has changed once already that I know of.

        My better half got annoyed by MS, and is now happily running Linux on her laptop. So, one down millions and millions to go.

        • For the reason you specify, and the fact that I cannot enable AppLocker on a Pro version of Windows, I'd argue that Pro versions can't really be considered as "Business" versions of Windows.

    • The Enterprise editions and some of the workstation editions have options to turn all that off, but even Professional is filled with these types of pokes in the notifications and other areas. It gets old.

  • They want to own your PC, it is becoming increasingly common for windows updates to hijack your PC override the settings you have so they can try and get you to do what they want. I'm tired of it.
    • Windows Update has no legitimate reason to be mucking about with the Registry. Before starting an update, make a copy of your Registry, preferably on a flash-drive. Then, if you find your settings changed, just copy that backup back in. HTH, HAND.
  • Howsabout they offer a start menu THAT WORKS?
    Because I quite literally HAVE TO use Start11 just to get a properly functional taskbar and start menu.
    Because what's there now DOES NOT WORK and ican't be fixed.

  • Its really only a matter of time before the mainstream realizes that, for power users, Linux is a better desktop than Windows in almost all conceivable ways. For the rest of them, Chrome is looking better and better.
  • Just say no to Microsoft accounts. There is no good reason to be logging in to your own personal computer using a remote third party service.

    The way they are pushing their OneDrive service should be illegal. Windows 11 will tell you that you need to keep your computer "secure" by backing up all your data to Microsoft OneDrive.

    Secure... by handing over all of your data to Microsoft?! You have to be really fucking dumb to believe that. Right, lots of dumb people out there.

  • Microsoft is earning a lot of disdain.

  • I worked at Microsoft for almost a decade. Nobody who respects themselves uses the "odd" versions of Windows. They screw up so much of the basic operating system experience every other version. The good news about the start menu is that you almost never need to use it if you launch your apps from the taskbar. The bad news is that Microsoft can't leave a menu to launch your apps alone.

    Here's how I score the versions of Windows:

    DOS-based:
    Windows 3.1: Good (3.11 for Workgroups was a little better)
    Windows 95/98

  • There's really no other reason I would ever use it. If I want to do anything that isn't gaming, I use NetBSD and Haiku (Haiku is fun to play with, but I wouldn't use it seriously until it gets a non-beta release). NetBSD is great for development, since all the tools and utilities that make Unix great are freely available. I've since demoted Windows to be my gaming OS and nothing more.

As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. -- Albert Einstein

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