Firefox Seeks Full Page Ad in New York Times 753
blakeross writes "Join us over at Spread Firefox as we raise funds for the most ambitious launch campaign in open source history. A portion of each donation will go towards taking out a full-page ad in the New York Times celebrating the release. All donors will be listed in the ad, the signatories of a declaration of independence from a monopolized and stagnant web."
Slashdot not Adage? (Score:3, Interesting)
For a webpage with a lot of members who hate advertising, it sure is interesting to see how many stories about advertising we have and how many slashvertisements we get.
Re:Slashdot not Adage? (Score:3, Insightful)
However, seeing as many
Watch out! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Watch out! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Watch out! (Score:5, Funny)
CONGRATU.LNS
Re:Watch out! (Score:5, Informative)
Wasn't it the slightly uglier and funnier:
Re:Watch out! (Score:4, Insightful)
A quick A9 gives me... (Score:5, Informative)
I prefer this one:
http://www.macmothership.com/gallery/newads5/Appl
or this one:
http://static.userland.com/manilasites/images/MMa
Sheesh... (Score:5, Insightful)
the signatories of a declaration of independence from a monopolized and stagnant web
That type of hyperbole does nothing to help spread free software. I certainly hope the print-ad doesn't lower itself to these levels.
Re:Sheesh... (Score:5, Insightful)
Screw the politics, stick to the facts.
Re:Sheesh... (Score:3, Interesting)
Nah. Needs to be a bit more imaginative. how about...
Thousands of razor-sharp, spring-loaded mini-adverts for various dubious services which ping out across the room, closely followed by a blast of various virus-laden particles ranging from the common cold to herpes and smallpox. Oh, and a leaking colostomy bag too, for good measure.
Then, as the reader curses and t
Re:Sheesh... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Sheesh... (Score:3, Insightful)
yet they complain that they get mysterious popups and computer slowdowns they don't want.
#186 (Score:3, Funny)
Re:#186 (Score:3, Informative)
# Can I put any text in the ad or just my name?
All submissions will be personally reviewed. The intent of the ad is to show the strong support Firefox has among the grassroots technology community, so we are only allowing the verifiable names of individuals in the ad. Individual, verifiable names only. Company names, URLs and false names will be removed.
Why not advertize for FREE on Slashdot? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Why not advertize for FREE on Slashdot? (Score:5, Interesting)
It's the wrong market. (Score:4, Insightful)
The advert should be in computer magazines frequented by "power users" and/or windows administrators. Actually, this is also the market that the Linux distributions should be pointing at, there's no point trying to sell or even give Linux to end users, they don't understand what it does.
math... (Score:5, Insightful)
"...all these people use firefox! switch!"
nonetheless, it should be interesting to see...
Portion of the donations (Score:5, Informative)
What is the cost? (Score:4, Interesting)
How abt other papers?
Re:What is the cost? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:What is the cost? (Score:5, Informative)
There are further discounts when you are flexible on the date that the ad will run. This one will run within a 3 week window.
Re:What is the cost? (Score:5, Informative)
# How much does the ad cost?
As a non-profit organization, the Mozilla Foundation will receive a highly discounted rate. Being flexible with the placement of the ad and the date that it runs also lowers the cost.
The ad will not necessarily run on the day Firefox 1.0 comes out (November 9), because we get better pricing if we provide a (small) window of time rather than an exact date.
Great work! (Score:4, Insightful)
How much? (Score:4, Funny)
1. post story on
2. use 10% of donations towards ad.
3. PROFIT!!!
Re:How much? (Score:5, Informative)
The campaign is a fundraiser for the launch of Firefox 1.0. Look.. for $30 you get your name in the New York Times -- the first ever full page ad for Firefox.
Re:How much? (Score:3, Informative)
It's the community marketing initiative.
Re:How much? (Score:5, Informative)
Wow nice incenvitve. (Score:4, Interesting)
This ad won't be run until Firefox 1.0 is complete, I hope.
Re:Wow nice incenvitve. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wow nice incenvitve. (Score:5, Funny)
Gent00 R0cks!!
Re:Wow nice incenvitve. (Score:4, Insightful)
And other serious journalists? They often read the New York Times too.
As for the question of how to design and present this ad, and whether Firefox is ready for this ad, I am less certain. I love Firefox, but it still misrenders my favorite Internet time-suck, Slashdot. This is a pretty major and obvious rendering bug, and the stubborn-ass Mozilla people seem to think that this or it's dependencies shouldn't be listed as an Aviary-1.0 blocker. Utterly inconceivable - and yes, that word does mean what I think it means. How can I recommend a browser to my friends, family, and now the entire Western world that I still find annoying to use on a daily basis and whose drivers refuse to acknowledge a critical 1.0 bug?
Furthermore, what is this shit about putting everybody's name in the NY Times? Nobody wants to see an ad with a thousand names across the bottom. If you want to put names on it, put some names and quotes that will at least sound like they have credibility to the generally-intelligent-but-non-technical-elite audience. This sounds like an ego exercise instead of a real advertising campaign. I don't want MY name on a tiny corner of a full page ad, I'd rather just have an acknowledgement somewhere on the Mozilla.org webpage thanking me for supporting their launch. Furthermore, if I am helping finance this launch, I want to see what I'm buying. Show me the money... err.. the ad copy, and I'll consider helping to fund it. I sure hope if you are going to put this much money into it, you did actually get somebody who understands how to design impactful print ads for this audience to design it, right? Right?
Is Firefox ready? (Score:5, Insightful)
Firefox is still gaining ground against IE. It may be better to wait a little longer and let Firefox muture a bit more before trying to convert the general masses with this type of advertising campaign.
Dan East
Re:Is Firefox ready? (Score:5, Interesting)
why? Almost ALL people have problems with windows constantly, yet they do not switch to a Mac and never consider Microsoft again...
you overestimate people.
Re:Is Firefox ready? (Score:3, Informative)
Is Firefox ready? Yes, but the old web isn't! (Score:3, Insightful)
Firefox will only get a single shot with most users. If they download Firefox and have any problems with it at all they will go back to IE and never consider Firefox again.
That's correct, but if we don't try to change that, it'll remain like that forever. If more people are aware of Firefox and actually using it for their daily webbrowising experience, it'll lead to more open-standards complient pages and more awareness of what open-standards mean: no single vendor is able to lock you into their prop
Re:Is Firefox ready? (Score:5, Interesting)
Nothing is ever completely ready. If you want to wait for absolute perfection, you'll never make it in to the world.
Furthermore, technology doesn't have to be 100% to become widely adopted. If you look through the relatively short history of IT alone, you'll find plenty of examples where something not quite perfected became widely adopted and examples of elegant technologies never gaining a foothold.
The questions Firefox advocates have to ponder is if Firefox is Good Enough and is IE (not to MS bash, but that's the competition) market / mind share showing cracks. I believe the answer to both is 'yes'. YMMV.
Experience is subjective. But I'm seeing Firefox more often these days. My household uses Firefox when they would refuse to fire up the old Mozilla even after I installed it. I see Firefox on more and more desktops... even those who are fairly strong Microsoft fans. And I've over-heard conversations among non-techies where Firefox was recommended several times.
None of this is earth-shattering. And it doesn't eliminate the bugs and issues facing Firefox. But it does show an adoption rate that I just didn't see with the old Mozilla. And that implies that Firefox is getting something right that neither Mozilla or IE did or does.
Firefox has a chance to take it's shot right now. It might be a risk. But there are indications that the time is right. And if it doesn't take its shot now, when it has its chance and standards are still mostly open and adhered to, it may not have that chance in the future.
Agreed, it's not ready. At least not on OS X. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Is Firefox ready? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's of questionable legality. If it isn't right now, it will be made illegal in the future, because it undermines the industry's DRM efforts.
We need open content in open formats. Content that you can legally view on your computer, no matter what software the computer is running. We don't need content that can be viewed only because law enforcement, copyright holders,
Grassroots Marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
It's quite ironic, actually incredibly ironic, that a process that is almost entirely driven by word of mouth would aim for promotion using above the line advertising.
Personally, and this is just an opinion, I reckon that money would be better spent on wining and dining journalists and trying to get Firefox on the cover of Times Magazine.
Or, alternatively, try to get Firefox banned for violating obscenity laws. That is usually excellent for publicity.
But a full-page advert? Seems kind of boring.
Re:Grassroots Marketing (Score:5, Funny)
Something about an officially branded Firefox Stripper... Oooh! We could market it in Playboy! For porn! And we can show people's favorite porn pages! Without popups!
(That was meant to be funny, but now it's starting to look kinda legitimate... :-)
Re:Grassroots Marketing (Score:3, Informative)
For the computer illiterate (Score:3, Insightful)
Slashdotted (Score:4, Informative)
NY Times Ad CampaignLet's mark the launch of Firefox 1.0 with a community marketing campaign that will take the buzz around Firefox to the next level: the first-ever, full-page advertisement in a major daily newspaper created and paid for by the open source community.
Here is how it works:
* The full-page ad will include the names of everyone who supports the campaign along with a message about the benefits/features of Firefox.
* The campaign will act as a fundraiser to support all Firefox 1.0 launch activities, not just the ad itself.
* An individual contribution of $30 will get your name included in the ad ($10 student rate).
* Special recognition -- Community Champion -- will be given to people who enlist 10 of their friends in this campaign. (These folks have a shot at having their name in the lower half of the ad.)
* There are also two packages available for businesses to participate.
* If you have a Spread Firefox account, you will receive 100 sfx points per name slot that you purchase or refer.
* The goal: sign up 2500 names!
* More questions? Check the FAQ.
* Ready? Click the newspaper on the upper right to join in!
We (sfx members and Firefox users) will only ever have one Firefox 1.0 launch -- this is it! Let's take the world by storm.
PS: The buzz about this campaign is already starting. Check out the story on eWeek!
PS2: Thanks to everyone who's uploaded images showing how you're spreading the fire. Keep those images coming!
Mostly go ignored.. (Score:5, Insightful)
* - replace Internet Explorer with "the internet" for most users.
Re:Mostly go ignored.. (Score:3, Interesting)
WSJ would be better (Score:5, Insightful)
Am I missing something? (Score:5, Funny)
I can just see it now...
Firefox browser 1.0 released
Mario "Lightfingers" Frazetti
Dane "the Gimp" Rostenkowski
Michael "Code Monkey" Miller
Peter "Frodo" Fry
etc...
Re:Am I missing something? (Score:5, Informative)
I had also thought that some might try to have URLs or "Lisa Simpson" or "Seymore Butz."
Mozilla instead of Firefox (Score:3, Interesting)
What's the big deal about Firefox? It uses just as much RAM as the Mozilla browser does.
Debian (which I use) has shown that the Mozilla browser, mail, chat & composer can be broken into separate packages. That's what the big deal about FF is supposed to be.
The things that I really like about Mozilla are:
If FF used significantly less RAM than Mozilla, I'd put up with it's deficiencies, though.
It has to be said, mod redundant if you want. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It has to be said, mod redundant if you want. (Score:4, Informative)
By which I mean someone outside of Slashdot, as they don't care enough to do it themselves.
I've heard of 2-3 different projects to turn it into CSS, and I know that Slashdot is "working with" one in particular. You should see some results soon, but remember:
- Changing every single page on the site to CSS takes a lot of work
- The layout needs to be tested on multiple browsers, which takes a lot of time (and work)
I'm looking forward to it, though. It'll be even easier to change the colour scheme of the IT section with a Firefox userContent.css, and should take a lot less effort to render. Mobile phone and print versions will be easier to produce, too.Why the Times? (Score:5, Insightful)
Great... pay to be on Bill Gates' enemy list! (Score:5, Funny)
Not to be off-topic but... (Score:3, Insightful)
I remember when (Score:3, Funny)
too much reading... (Score:4, Funny)
this is why you fail (Score:4, Insightful)
...and adopts other proprietary business practices (Score:4, Interesting)
Personally, I think if they better integrated themselves with the FOSS community and started using traditional FOSS methods (as well as enocuranging the FOSS community to spread the word), this would help their marketing a lot better than an ad in the NYT. I do not object to the ad of itself--it may be a good idea--but it is an example of the way MF are thinking--specifically thinking ("monopoly"..."stagnant"...) about abusing their power over what is a brilliant piece of software.
>>in open source history<< (from story)
The *real* *question* is whether Firefox is free or open-source? My real objection is the attempts of people at MF to make Firefox neither (i.e.: proprietary). The whole thing about making the name and artwork proprietary a while back was not so bad (although it certainly led people to question MF's morality), as it was easy to remove references to "Firefox" or "Mozilla" and all the relevant artwork (but it still means that official builds are not free and do not follow DFSG).
The latest proposal <https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=1
Careful...don't get too full of yourselves (Score:5, Informative)
The primary benefits of Firefox are:
1. Security. You don't get spyware and such. You can also get the same result if you disable ActiveX controls and other features in IE, but most people don't do this. If Microsoft changed the defaults--which they won't because many sites depend on them--then IE would be on part with FF.
2. Tabbed browsing. This is a fairly small interface feature, though a very useful one. If Microsoft added it to IE--and they undoubtedly will, because it's easy to do--then there goes the biggest visible difference.
I realize that FF has other nice features (and I fully agree with people who cite them, because, again, I like and use FF), but those are the biggies. And the big negative feature is simply this: Sites that rely on ActiveX controls don't work under FF. Yes, I know, security, blah, blah, blah, but most people only see the "not working" part.
Why invest in a newspaper ad.... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Informative)
I login to citibank.com at least once a month. I click the "Sign on to"->credit cards button.
I login, pay my bill surf, and leave.
I login to usbank constantly, as well as my local credit union. None bicker about the browser.
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ironically enough... (Score:5, Interesting)
For now, I've got our IT guy's blessing on running FireFox on my computer, but if they find out that it bypasses their fancy card-based security system...
Re:Ironically enough... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Ironically enough... (Score:3, Funny)
"We're going to need a shitload of dimes!"
Re:Ironically enough... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:3, Informative)
What's more, a Firefox crash is a non-event, as the SessionSaver extension restores all my tabs on reload to the parts of the respective pages I was looking at.
Publicise the right things, and the switch is a no-brainer.
Re:there are lot of pages.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm....maybe this is a feature? Email is supposed to be plain text....
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Insightful)
Have you seen the amount of scum you find in most http://www.* links? Scum like that only forms on stagnant water.
And much like cream, it always rises to the top.
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:3, Insightful)
After all, the W3C standards are effectively recommendations. We're all using something that isn't fully-conformant. So it's really up to the Firefox team to put together something that can properly interpret what's out there rather than to wait for what's out there to become perfect or at least not crash their browser at every sixth page.
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Insightful)
I know there was that slahdot article recently about malformed HTML crashing browsers, but claiming it crahses every sixth pages is an over exageration of staerring proportions.
I use firefox all the time, and I've not found any actual web page that crashes the 0.9 - 1.0PR versions.
The only page I've found with rendering gliches is Gamespot, that flickers all over the place while loading, but is OK once done. My Slashdot problems have stopped since 1.0PR.
It already can properly render most of the web. Also if a web page is actually broken, there is no way to properly render it. At best you can best guess what maybe it is supposed to be.
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Informative)
To wich I say "WTF"? I can't see anything different re: the fonts.Can you? [uchile.cl]
Re:OT: About your sig (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:OT: About your sig (Score:3, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_V: _ The_Empire_Strikes_Back [wikipedia.org]
Days later, while training, Luke discovers his X-wing fighter about to sink into the lake, then breaks concentration. Luke declares he will never be able to get the ship out, seeing that it is too big for him to extract from the water. Yoda says it is "no different, only different in your mind". Luke decides to "try" to lift the ship, but Yoda says "do or do not, there is no try". Luke tries to use the Force, but
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Informative)
I can browse slashdot, do my banking, pay my bills, hit a few of the forums sites I frequent, use several different webmail programs, order flowers for my wife, buy plane tickets, book a rental car, etc. etc. all through Firefox. The odd site that breaks when I browser to it, gets ignored, and I move to the next google result.
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Informative)
Every single person I've converted to Firefox from IE has been more than pleased. All the techies I know have already converted, and the newbies appreciate Firefox's clean-cut, easy-to-use interface just as much if not more than IE's. It's also been shown by numerous studies across the web that Firefox/Mozilla has sizable market share now, making it force to drive the web. For example, w3Schools reports 17% for October of this year.
In other words, I already see the public making the change you think isn't happening. I also believe that it's only going to get better from here.
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:4, Interesting)
1 12576 38.70% MSIE 6.0
2 12435 38.27% Mozilla/5.0
Now, I realize that browsers can fake this information but let's assume that it's basically correct. Just about any hit that comes from a referrer outside of slashdot is not Firefox/Moz.
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Informative)
Oh no custom scrollbars! The world is ending!
Having to ditch extensions entirely everytime there's an upgrade
Not anymore. Having upgraded from 0.9.3 to 0.10, it automatically updated extensions. Some didn't have equivalents right away, but soon did later. This won't be a problem anymore, as they aren't going to change the architecture anytime soon.
Having to restart the browser everytime you install an extension
And IE is any different?
Adblock doesn't block ads nearly as well as IE with Admuncher installed (it even blocks text ads!)
Um. Troll alert. Admuncher is a system level ad filter. It is browser/program agnostic.
The TalkBack agent appears way too often for my tastes.
What are you really trying to say?
The only reason I switched in the first place was tabbed browsing.
I doubt it. You didn't switch to simply try it out, like 99.9% who use/used firefox?
But you can get SlimBrowser or Avant Browser now and they'll add tabbed functionality to IE.
And, as everyone conveniently forgets to mention about these IE knockoffs, they come with their own security vulnerabilities along with all of IE's.
And I'm sure IE7 will add tabs.
Three cheers for vaporware!
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Informative)
Show me the part of the css/html spec that defines this. I can show you the part of the faq that says its downright WRONG to do it.
* Having to ditch extensions entirely everytime there's an upgrade
Didn't happen when I switched from 0.9 to 1.0PR.
* Having to restart the browser everytime you install an extension
Yeah. Sucks. Same as IE though. Atleast with extentions like sessionsaver, restarting doesn't make you lose anything.
* Adblock doesn't block ads nearly as well as IE with Admuncher installed (it even blocks text ads!)
Adblock blocks text ads just fine. Anything that has its own display element is blockable (And this includes PRE, P, SPAN, DIV, etc.)
* The TalkBack agent appears way too often for my taste
Download a build with it disabled? I only see it when my browser crashes, which is only due to bad Java causing bad memory leaks.
The advertisers might want to tone it down a bit.. (Score:5, Insightful)
The people who hate hate hate MS and/or IE have already moved on. I'm sure they'll cheer the ad, but that's a big waste of money.
SFF's site is
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Insightful)
On the other hand, there are VERY few pages that display weird in Firefox, with Slashdot being the only prominent example that I can come up with. However, many people are still only developing for IE, which is shit, and thus their pages are shit, and look like shit when rendered correctly in Firefox (though this is rare).
The bottom line is that you can't wait for the web to change. You have to make it change. Go download Firefox [mozilla.org] and at some point when browser usage is no longer 95% IE (and it already is much less on some sites), the web will change.
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:3, Interesting)
That way, when the user sees a broken page, he can (correctly) blame his troubles on MS... ;-)
Cheers, Ulli
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:3, Informative)
File: index.html
Encoding: utf-8
Doctype: HTML 3.2
Errors: 106
No Character Encoding Found! Falling back to UTF-8
.
[snip]
.
This page is not Valid HTML 3.2!
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:3, Informative)
This simply is not true. There are certainly sites out there that have problems on Firefox, but to say that they are few and far between is an overstatement to me. I almost never find one. And when I do, that is why there is the ieview extension.
Almost all page designs that are coming onto the web now are heavily CSS based, so "the latest and greatest" often works just find on fi
Stagnant browser? Idiocy at its finest, eh (Score:3, Insightful)
Now viruses, buffer overflows, bad security design, ok, IE is guilty as charged of those. But stagnant? Here I was thinking that's a damn good thing.
It reeks of the old dot-com thinking that surfing the web should be "an experience", or other such bullshit. Except while everyone wanted to _offer_ some unique experience, but noone wanted to _have_ it. Even the very same PHBs that preached about how their site will be an unique experience, you never heard
Bullshit (Score:5, Insightful)
The percentage of all web sites that are designed for Internet Explorer's bugs is tiny and shrinking. Serious companies that depend on their websites for business (banks, Amazon, online stockbrokers) got the message long ago; I haven't found a website that I need that I can't use with Mozilla or Firefox, in quite a long time.
Cutting-edge web designers, like Eric Meyer, have been leading the way to standards-based pages for years.
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Public needs to change to make the change... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ok, first off, the notion that the underdog that actually complies with standards is somehow the badguy is completely misguided. It's IE that doesn't conform to the standards, and contrary to many MS'ers, the standards are not measured by who's winning the marketshare battle.
Secondly, install Firefox and use it exclusively on a fresh, patched XP box and then come back and tell me about how the Mozilla team needs to learn more about Spyware.
Re:Ummmm.... (Score:5, Informative)
http://mail.mozilla.org/listinfo/marketing-public
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/donate.html [mozilla.org]
False. (Score:3, Informative)
From http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/:
The Foundation has been incorporated as a California not-for-profit corporation to ensure that the Mozilla project continues to exist beyond the participation of individual volunteers, to enable contributions of intellectual property and funds and to provide a vehicle for limiting legal exposure while participating in open-source software projects.
[...]
The Mozilla Foundation is a California non-profit corporation exempt from federa
Re:Marketing for Open Source? (Score:5, Interesting)
Next time the executives are playing golf and one of us techies who was lucky to be there mentions Firefox in some offtopic conversation, the exeucutive might respond: "Right. Right. I remember something like that in NYT a couple of weeks ago. Remind me again in the office tomorrow".
And then you know that you have made a breakthrough.
Remember the golden mantra of marketing: Its all about brand recognition.
Re:Tabbed browsing sucks. (Score:3, Informative)
There is [texturizer.net]. I'm not sure why you'd want to use it (I personally can't live without tabs, and even those who don't like them could just avoid opening any), but TabKiller is there for anyone who wants it.