NeoOffice/J 1.1 Finally In Beta 73
VValdo writes "Hot on the heels of yesterday's vigorous debate re OpenOffice.org for OS X, the 1.1 beta of NeoOffice/J is now available. Based on Oo.o 1.1.3, improvements include native Mac menus, scroll wheel support, text drag-and-drop, smaller PDFs, new icons, localization for 40 languages, automatic update notification, and much more. No X11 server required!"
Re:First Color Scheme Complaint (Score:1, Offtopic)
Its a start.. (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Its a start.. (Score:3, Informative)
OO.o is so non-Mac-friendly that it has been a huge undertaking to get NeoOffice even this far.
Re:Its a start.. (Score:4, Informative)
I'm sure they understand the interface isn't all that it should be, but it is a beta (they aren't done), and you generally worry about fixing up the interface *after* you get the program *running*.
Now, if only someone would make a native OSX port of Evolution.
Re:Its a start.. (Score:2, Informative)
Ok, NeoOffice/J beta isn't eye candy yet. Consider another angle besides appearances. Last week while using OfficeX to build a bibliography for my PhD Critical Literature Review under extreme time pressure I had the gut-wrenching experience of MSWord crashing over and over due to formatting issues and probably software bloat.
I switched to LaTeX/BibTeX, but the harshly bitter aftertaste of that MSWord experience lingers still. Now, along comes a free and
Re:Its a start.. (Score:3)
Hint: It's FREE.
Of course, you could VOLUNTEER to jump in and write the code to implement the "native widgets" if it is that important to you.
I for one, think they are doing a GREAT job, and I can't wait to see how it comes along. This is hard work, seriously.
Re:Its a start.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course it did. But those people without the skills or desire should not complain about the *FREE* software.
There are many things people could contribute, however. Beta testing. Documentation. Money. Resources. Bandwidth. Artwork. Not every aspect of open source is the code...
Beggars shouldn't be picky.
It is one thing to complain about a product you have PAID FOR. Other than that, understand - THESE GUYS ARE MAKING STUFF FOR YOU - FOR FREE! Please stop saying their stuff is no good when they are improving it every day... It takes time and effort, and they have lives and stuff too...
Maybe I am being a little harsh. I even find myself thinking, MAN, when will the Adium team release that patch they have been talking about... Then I realize, oh geez! It's thanksgiving... Maybe they are eating with their family... Maybe I should just wait a few weeks.
We all want the Mac to have the best and greatest stuff. Me too. But at least if you have criticism, make it constructive and try and help how ever you can. Not just "The interface sucks". That helps no one.
Re:Its a start.. (Score:2)
Congratulations, you just flamed one of of the truly good and great Mac coders out there, working his butt off so you can use a quality office package without coughing up $300.You are one dumb fuck. If you took the time to check out the screenshots, there is no excuse for you to have not read the information on the project:
"Here's a caveat though--while NeoOffice/J is remarkably stable and f
Re:Its a start.. (Score:1)
I never said it was it was bad, I criticized the UI and ONLY the UI (yeah yeah, I know they are working on it!). All I commented was what I saw, and honestly, It aint't pretty. OO.org which this is based on is great except the UI, all versions, all platforms.
So what if OfficeX costs $300, It's my freaking money, if a product in my opinion is worth that I'll pay it, OSS/Free? Sure, just donate a to the project. (Do you think
No it doesn't (Score:1)
NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
I got the impression that OO.org is basically OS X unfriendly and that won't change... is that correct?
Also I am the only one who thinks that the tone of NeoOffice/J FAQ is fairly unfriendly and angy?
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:4, Informative)
There's a universal fear of Java due to experience with poorly coded apps in the past. (*cough*Limewire*cough) But I can honestly say that is unfounded when it comes to NeoOffice/J.
Example: Start up time from double-click to document window for NeoOffice/J is 10 seconds. Start up time for MS Word is 14 seconds on my 1.5GHz 15" Powerbook G4 w/ 1GB of RAM.
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:1)
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
(Not that the guys doing this are fools)
Some where some said aquify Koffice which sounds sort of intriguing. My massive investigation (Google: "OS X" Native Koffice) in to this is tantalizi
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
Translation: "Go F**k Yourselves".
One of those volunteers should spend about 10 minutes rewriting that FAQ.
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
You can spend time on /. and not do it yourself?
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
I'm not one of their volunteers and have no interest in working on that project.
While I realize you're just trying to be a jerk, you've accidentally brought up a good point. With a FAQ that reads like that, it gives the whole project a rather negative overtone. Forget encouraging people to not try the software. Projecting an attitude like that, how many people are they encouraging to not help with the project?
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
Actually, I'm entirely serious. Consider Wikipedia. OSS documentation is not much different.
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
I appreciate what the people at NeoOffice/J are doing and the time they put into producing this software, but it is up to them to make their product d
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:4, Informative)
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
I'm sure that's the meaning they intended to convey, but their poor wording pushes a message that's far from that.
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
In response to the other reply: I have plenty of time and am certainly willing to rewrite their FAQ, however I doubt they'd except input from someone who
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
Exactly. I've had to ask a few questions to project volunteers in the past (especially on smaller projects where the field of existing documentation is rather small). Every time, I've been thrilled by the friendly, quick and accurate responses I've gotten. In some
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2)
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:2, Informative)
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:1)
But, this is the beauty of the portability of C? Clearly making OOO run on OS X just requires a recompile, if anyone with half a brain wrote the code, because C is portable, right? Oh, wait a minute. You're telling me that it can run on Linux, but can't even be run (with the proper UI) on a closely related UNIX without extensive architectural changes? Good thing it's in C, so it's blazingly fast. What's that, it's pretty slow, well ok then.
They should have done something similar to ThinkFree office from th
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
NeoOffice is NOT written in Java (Score:1, Informative)
98.8% C++, less then 1% Java (Score:5, Informative)
I did a line count analysis [openoffice.org] a while back in response to some FUD spreading, but it's probably still roughly accurate. On a source code level, less then 2% of NeoOffice/J is actually Java. 98% of the code is straight from OpenOffice.org. And not all of the NeoOffice/J code is in Java, so the actual figure is probably less then that.
On a binary level, the size of the combined JAR files for NeoOffice/J and OpenOffice.org are only 3.7 MB of the application's 317 MB footprint. And those JAR files include the support OOo has for Java applets, DocBook filters, and the like. The "Java" magic NeoOffice/J adds to OpenOffice.org is essentially contained in a single file "vcl.jar", which is 70k. I'm sure someone can do those percentages themselves as I left my RPN calculator at home
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Why we used J over C (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately, Cocoa was just too difficult to fit to the OOo event model. While I hacked and struggled with Cocoa until he smote my ruin upon the mountainside, the Java+Carbon of J the amazing engineering of Patrick and his testing crew was triumphant and created a stable, functional app. When it comes down to it, redoing all that work in Cocoa is just reinventing the wheel for no tangible benefit aside from pure geek thrills. Even if done, the result still wouldn't be using ObjC, Interface Builder, or any of the other tools that make Cocoa so scrumptious. It'd be the penultimate Cocoa hack job. Doing OOo in Cocoa is kind of like trying to ram a square peg into a round hole. Cocoa suffers from the fatal flaw of all framework technologies; they really don't work well for building apps that are not engineered to conform to the framework design.
Frustrated with Cocoa, the decision I came to was to shelve C for a while and go join Patrick and help him bring Aqua into J, stop splitting our efforts, and combine to make a kickass app. Thus the Aqua menus were born with the other widgets to come. Eventually when J is finished, I am hoping to find time to take the "core" parts of J out and wrap them into a framework that can then be embedded into Cocoa apps, similar to the Gecko engine. That's a long way off yet...
For more of my own logic read a more detailed discussion [neooffice.org] about why J is the best engineering choice for now.
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Re:Why we used J over C (Score:2)
BTW - How is the performance of Obj-C over Java, from what I have seen, Java is getting very close to the performance of C'ish languages but still with a large resource footprint, particuarily memory.
I'd be
Re:NeoOffice (J vs. C) (Score:3, Informative)
OO.Org 2 series is supposed to make a tranistion to Aqua easier.
NeoOffice is a quick port designed to get people up to speed.
I run OO.org 1.2 under OS X and X and it takes a long time to load up. Of course it has to start the X server, then load Open Office, then the document, and it looks ugly. But it does work.
Holy Crap! (Score:2)
Thanks a lot.
Re:Holy Crap! (Score:1)
I just got the 1.1 Alpha version working and now I have to upgrade again!
Anybody still remembers the good old QuarkXPress times when every update cost about $500 and was compulsory for the next update...?
(BTW, have they changed this policy or have they forced everybody to switch to InDesign...?)
Re:Holy Crap! (Score:2)
Neo (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Neo (Score:1)
Re:Neo (Score:2, Funny)
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Laughed out loud (Score:2)
Warning: all NeoOffice/J development and testing is done by volunteers so there are always some missing features and bugs. So if you expect software to be absolutely perfect before you install it, we recommend that you purchase a commercially supported office suite like MicrosoftTM Office
Non-profit status? (Score:2)
It isn't exactly helping the homeless, but if it isn't trying to make a buck and it's all open to the public, then why not?
Not yet because of history...and money. (Score:4, Interesting)
To organize as a non-profit in the state of California requires filing paperwork, meeting minimum tax requirements, and other state and federal requirements. We're not expecting to see a lot of monetary donations, so instead of shelling out all that capital to set up a new corporate entity and lose money we don't have (!) we just reused one of the S-corps we already had set up.
We couldn't just take money directly as that opens us up to personal legal liability, a bad thing for us Americans with our predatory legal system. We also can't afford to do it personally due to tax reasons. Right now we're only hoping to get enough to pay for bandwidth and hosting costs. If people actually do start donating enough though we've already decided we'll go through all the hassle of setting up a non-profit entity. It's unfortunately not worth that much hassle for just a few hundred dollars in donations
Still, I'd rather encourage people to donate time, support, and hopefully code instead. It's much more useful then money. Unfortunately time and code are more then most people are able or willing to give
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Translated docs in German, Italian, Japanese, ... (Score:3, Informative)
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No Word 5.1 compatibility? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:No Word 5.1 compatibility? (Score:5, Informative)
The only "old school" Mac app that has had its format engineered is the old Mac WordPerfect, thanks to the OOo WordPerfect filter team [openoffice.org]. They integrated their code into NeoOffice/J and now we can sort of open the old Novell/Corel WordPerfect 3.5 formatted files. Note this still doesn't give you "show codes", just the files. I think the old MacLink Plus may have had a Word 5.1 to WP translator, though, so that might be a way to get at your legacy docs even if it is convoluted as all hell.
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BitTorrent download (Score:5, Informative)
http://trinity.neooffice.org/torrents/NeoOfficeJ-
There are only a couple of seeders right now, but if the mirrors slow to a crawl the torrent may be a better choice.
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Not bad, but not good either. (Score:3, Interesting)
I like the fact that I can use the Apple command key instead of ctrl, but unless the devs are willing to give me a free 512 MB or Gig DIMM, I think I'll wait for something with a smaller memory footprint.
Re:Not bad, but not good either. (Score:2)
Re:Not bad, but not good either. (Score:2)
Re:Not bad, but not good either. (Score:2)
The WHOLE POINT of PAYING for software is that it is supposed to be good. If it is NOT, people won't pay for it. Now having said that, Microsoft has the advantage in
Re:Not bad, but not good either. (Score:1, Informative)
one, yes it is a memory hog, but that is a part of OO.o, not the port. The Neo-guys port the software, they don't write it (99% of the code is pure OO.o code)
second, this is a breakthrough. OO.o 1.1 without X11, native printing, aqua menues, wordperfect converters (which windows OO.o does NOT have).
also, if you are basing your experience on 'last year' (so i assume you mean Neo 0.8 or so) then things have improved, both with the java and the OO.o code itself.
this is not a low quality sof
Re:Not bad, but not good either. (Score:2)
Once a comercial product ships and the company has your money there is little incentive to do small improvements. (Other than bug fixes) They do large releases and charge for them.
Open Source is constantly being improved by people who just like seeing the programs get better. They make many small improvements and this results in a lot of "point releases".
So just wait a bit and see if this doesn't become useable on your system.
Re:Not bad, but not good either. (Score:2)
I was skeptical... (Score:2)
There's a wiki too (Score:2)
Answers a lot of questions people are posting here, especially about the difference between the stable Neooffice/J and the older, experimental NeoOffice/C (Btw-- the C stands for "Cocoa" not the programming language C).
W
doesn't matter to me... (Score:1)
No good OSS grammar checker tools exist (Score:3, Interesting)
The Link Grammar Parser [cmu.edu] is one that I've actually been keen on integrating with NeoOffice/J for quite some time. I have ideas on how to do so but have not yet had time to devote to it. I had been waiting for an OSS license for a
Re:No good OSS grammar checker tools exist (Score:1)
Re:No good OSS grammar checker tools exist (Score:2)
I'm not convinced. The grammar rules that Word comes up with are pretty lame. They don't like technical journal - style text, and they aren't really much good at comprehending or commenting on well-written material in general. The grammar checker may catch some singular-plural mismatches but not much beyond that.
[OT] what happened to KOffice for Aqua? (Score:1)
KDE/Darwin project page here (Score:1)
Re:[OT] what happened to KOffice for Aqua? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:[OT] what happened to KOffice for Aqua? (Score:1)
the status page from the other site is dead too... mailing lists has close to no traffic, so i asked myself: is anyone working (and not reading mails/updating webpages) or is it abandoned.