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Windows Operating Systems Software Microsoft The Almighty Buck IT

Windows Vista To Come In 7 Flavors 815

Dionne writes "Microsoft is really milking it with this one: According to an Ars Technica report, there will be 7 versions of Windows Vista: Starter Edition, Home Basic Edition, Home Premium Edition, Professional Edition, Small Business Edition, Enterprise Edition, and Ultimate Edition." From the article: "Windows Vista Ultimate Edition is a superset of both Vista Home Premium and Vista Pro Edition, so it includes all of the features of both of those product versions, plus adds Game Performance Tweaker with integrated gaming experiences, a Podcast creation utility (under consideration, may be cut from product), and online "Club" services (exclusive access to music, movies, services and preferred customer care) and other offerings (also under consideration, may be cut from product)."
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Windows Vista To Come In 7 Flavors

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  • Flavours? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lifewish ( 724999 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:48AM (#13530890) Homepage Journal
    Chocolate, Vanilla, Pecan, Mint, Banana and BSOD?
    • by knigitz ( 714500 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:50AM (#13531144)
      Pirated Edition.
      • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 11, 2005 @11:50AM (#13531811)
        Starter Plus Registry Hack Edition.
      • by TheSpoom ( 715771 ) * < minus author> on Sunday September 11, 2005 @01:17PM (#13532336) Homepage Journal
        Windows Vista Ultimate Corporate Leaked Key Edition!
    • by starwed ( 735423 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @10:31AM (#13531345)
      Well, we know by symmetry that there should be 8 flavors. [] Presumably Microsoft hasn't achieved high enough energies to find the eighth, but it's always possible before release, I guess. Getting to the fourth generation is impressive enough, though. ^_^
    • by ilikejam ( 762039 )
      <GARTH>Praline, and dick.</GARTH>
    • Re:Flavours? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      My God... When will the Slashdot crowd finally stop bashing MS products and Windows in particular? Yes, I completely agree, Win95/98/Me absolutely sucked, we know it by now, get over it already; Win2K/XP are way more stable; I haven't had a BSoD on WinXP for over two years (at least) and I'm using around 5 PC's with WinXP installed. Don't like the OS? Fine, but don't use every chance you get to level it; it's becoming old, tiresome, and annoying. If Linux were such a great alternative, I could definitely un
  • Yes. (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:48AM (#13530898)
    Sure'll come in seven flavors, but they'll all taste like crap.
  • by DaedalusHKX ( 660194 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:49AM (#13530901) Journal
    You know, so that they can remain compatible with "windows" ? or is the new product a complete, linux based rewrite with the old front end?

    Honestly folks, how many times has microsoft and its partners delivered a secure, clean and workable product?

    Two of these three is ALWAYS missing:

    Good Pricing
    Value for money

    But usually more than 2 missing. After my last "hunt" for drivers in windows XP and 2000, I don't even find them "well supported" anymore. But then again, I have exotic hardware, not a 499 + 500 dollar rebate PC from walmart.

    • by dtdns ( 559328 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:46AM (#13531123) Homepage

      Two of these three is...

      Second Brother: First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.

      Maynard: Amen.
      Knights: Amen.
      Arthur: Right! One!... Two!... Five!
      Galahad: Three, sir!
      Arthur: Three!
      [angels sing]

      There goes Vista! Sorry, I just had to...

  • by Omicron32 ( 646469 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:50AM (#13530904)
    So much for the anti-Linux crowd saying there's far too many distro's...

    Anyone know what the major differences are between the versions then? Will schools (which is where I make a living as a sysadmin) and businesses require Enterprise edition for networks or what?

    I should RTFA, eh?
    • by CyricZ ( 887944 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:04AM (#13530981)
      I wouldn't say this is an example of there being too many distros. No, not at all. This is an example of unnecessary fragmentation within a distro itself. It would be as if there were seven different versions of Slackware Linux 10.

    • by Liam Slider ( 908600 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:35AM (#13531068)
      I don't exactly know what people's problem with multiple distros is. Different companies and people have different ideas for what a good OS should be, and so modify Linux to suit their needs. And what's wrong with having competing distros? Competition is a good thing, it's what made our capitalist society so great! Competition and "survival of the fittest" are also the mechanisms by which we humans came to exist as a species. And monoculture is always a bad thing, particularly in computing as Microsoft kept showing why do so many people push for "one distro to rule them all"? Seems like Microsoft thinking to me... Why would we want to encourage that?
  • 'Ultimate' Edition (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gunpowda ( 825571 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:51AM (#13530906)
    It doesn't really sound like the so-called Ultimate Edition has that much extra to offer.

    What are the odds that you'll be able to 'upgrade' from one version to the other by changing one registry key? []

  • by CyricZ ( 887944 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:52AM (#13530915)
    This is going to confuse the living daylights out of people, especially non-technical users.

    Home users probably won't know what version they have, and that will complicate tech support calls of all types. It'll be difficult to help people calling for aide, regardless of whether they're calling Dell tech support or their nephew.

    Developers will continually have to look up what features each system supports, and may very well just end up developing for the lowest common denominator in order to maximize support across all versions.

    It was difficult enough trying to get average users to understand that Windows XP Home is different from Windows XP Professional. Hell, it's difficult enough to even remember all these names, let alone remember what features are different between each.

  • by bcmm ( 768152 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:53AM (#13530923)
    So six of them have artificial limitations? That's gonna be hacked sometime just after the release day, methinks.
  • by pieterh ( 196118 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:55AM (#13530930) Homepage
    - Vista Secure Edition: completely redesigned kernel and win32 libraries make this edition secure against virus, worm, trojan, spyware, and phish attacks!

    - Vista Compact Edition: with just the software you need, including the much appreciated MSOfficeCompact, this edition runs on your P100 with 128Mb.

    - Vista Instant Edition: bootable in so many ways, this is all the software you need to boot that recaltricant box and get it working again. Comes complete with legacy support for every known device.

    - Vista Grandmother Edition: simple, fast, and based on all the best of Windows Secure, this is the software you wished you'd had when your parents asked, "How do I get onto the Internet?"

    - Vista Open Edition: free, and packed to the hilt with first-class open source, all verified and tuned by MicrosoftOpenLabs for that smooth experience. Comes with full source code.
  • by Kazzahdrane ( 882423 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:56AM (#13530935)
    As long as the average home user can get a cheaper version of their OS without the complex functions they won't ever need/use. But then I seem to be in the minority anyway, I have a legal version of XP and think the OS is a piece of software well worth paying for. Nice to see from the article that many of the features us geeks buy Pro edition of XP for are going to be included in the Premium Home edition of Vista, and that the "Pro" version is actually going to be aimed at business.
  • by tod_miller ( 792541 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:56AM (#13530938) Journal
    They realised that by offering extra versions, they can sway the sales of units, by giving competitors the chance to sell 'ultimate edition' windows for cut prices etc. Seems that this version play will come back and bite some people in the ass.

    Also, this is a bit of a 'hey EU, we are suing you but, look, you can't get us on not offering enough versions now, lol'.

    BTW, I don't get it, Microsoft is suing the EU, that means they are reaching into the pockets of every tax paying EU citizen, and taking money, you know, EU lawyers and teams are not free to deal with this crap.

    I say, you cannot have corporations bullying europe like this, no a flame, but honestly, US is PWNED by microsoft, things are going swimmingly for them, but with patents and their flagrant disregard for the laws and judgements of europe, I think people should wake up soon and jump ship.

    Oh well, it wouldn't suprise me if Microsoft bashing has become a offense, see you in -1 land, any second now.
  • Support nightmare (Score:5, Insightful)

    by orlinius ( 181137 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:57AM (#13530942) Homepage
    Am I the only one to think that this will be a nightmare for people in the support industry.
    I'm already having a headache with 7 different editions of Windows 2003 Server and what limitations each one has. Now 7 desktop editions. Obviously they like the number 7.

    Can't they just do like Apple and have 1 Client and 1 Server edition of the OS. Even RedHat has only 3 server editions and 1 desktop edition.

    Nooo, MSFT has decided to milk us all the way with a product segmentation strategy. Well, I guess that they need all the money they can get with their revenues being stagnant in the past several years.
    • hell yes. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by imag0 ( 605684 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:13AM (#13531003) Homepage
      I've been sitting here this evening getting some scripts setup to auto-export IIS website configurations (which I then export out to a Linux box with some PHP and MySql goodness makes a searchable database for all the websites we do shared hosting with).

      There's eight different servers (a test bed), just about all of them have to be treated in some special way (iis5 exports stuff differently than iis6, forcing me to write my parser *twice* to make things work right.

      Even better, sometimes different service packs change things around in undocumented ways, forcing me to once again re-write individual scripts to take that into account.

      Eight boxes, two versions of Microsoft operating systems, two service packs and I have five(!) different scripts to handle it all and make it work.

      Where Do You Want To Go Today, indeed.
  • by lunax ( 235701 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @08:58AM (#13530948)
    one flavor to rule them all?
  • by slashflood ( 697891 ) <flow AT howflow DOT com> on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:00AM (#13530956) Homepage Journal
    • Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.
    • Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.
    • Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.
    • Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.
    • Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.
    • Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.
    • by Neo-Rio-101 ( 700494 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:14AM (#13531005)
      Starter Edition, Sloth
      Home Basic Edition, Anger
      Home Premium Edition, - Pride
      Professional Edition, - Lust
      Small Business Edition, - Envy
      Enterprise Edition, and Greed
      Ultimate Edition.- Gluttony

      I think these are better names for the editions.

      I'll take a Windows Vista Gluttony Edition, thanks
  • by caluml ( 551744 ) <slashdot&spamgoeshere,calum,org> on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:01AM (#13530964) Homepage
    Good lord. What a lot of nonsense that looks like. I wonder why they haven't taken it to extremes and have "Windows Webserver", "Windows Fileserver", "Windows Domain Controller", etc versions. Surely Workstation, Server, and maybe Advanced Server (for clustering, load-balancing, etc) are the only versions really needed. All the rest are so they can gouge a few more pounds/dollars/euros/yen out of the users.
    Still - I'm not worried - it looks like England will win the Test, and I run Linux, so all is well.
  • by Novus ( 182265 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:01AM (#13530965) Homepage
    This makes choosing the right Windows version to install almost as hard as choosing the right Linux distribution. Imagine the sales:

    - 1 copy of Windows Vista, please.
    - Will that be Starter Edition, Home Basic Edition, Home Premium Edition, Professional Edition, Small Business Edition, Enterprise Edition or Ultimate Edition?
    - Uh... Never mind, just give me the latest openSUSE Linux.

    One can only hope...

    Alternative ending:

    - Does the Enterprise Edition come with Kirk or Picard?
  • by D4C5CE ( 578304 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:03AM (#13530973)
    there will be 7 versions of Windows Vista: Starter Edition, Home Basic Edition, Home Premium Edition, Professional Edition, Small Business Edition, Enterprise Edition, and Ultimate Edition.
    ROTFL! You couldn't even make these things up... The new worry for purchasing managers seems to become "how not to get fired for picking the wrong flavor of Windows." Makes you think twice about telling your company to stay on Windows in the first place...
    Remember there was a company that had an ad [] complaining how Linux came in too many "mutations" (the basis of evolution BTW)?
  • New Motto (Score:5, Funny)

    by Comatose51 ( 687974 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:11AM (#13530996) Homepage
    New Microsoft motto: "Gotta Catch'Em All"
  • Educated guesses (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jarnis ( 266190 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:11AM (#13530998)
    Ooo lets see... Educated Guess Time;

    I predict that...

    General people will buy the cheapest version that runs all applications. That version will be bundled with majority of the home computers. That will probably be the 'Basic' Home version. Don't expect it to be any cheaper than current Home Edition - MS has a monopoly, no reason to undercut in such situation. Premium crap will most likely be priced like today's Pro version, and will only sell to the crowd that today buys Media Center Edition.

    If there are feature differences that matter to the applications (such as games or normal productivity apps) everyone will ignore crippled versions - bye bye starter ed. Dunno why MS can't figure this out.

    Ultimate Edition will probably be sold to the Alienware/Dell XPS crowd that is too clueless. Rest will ignore the MS software clutter - especially since the ultimate edition has 'subscription' written all over it - the OS itself might work without one, but if it adds any downloadable extras, those will definitely want your personal information, and probably monthly fee sooner or later. I guess MS has gotten addicted to the mothly income it gathers from XBox Live subscribers. Someone has probably calculated how much they'd make if they could milk monthly fees from (some) Windows users as well.

    As far as Warez goes - unless the 'Corporate Pro/Enterprise editions' are crippled in some way that matters to home user (lack of MCE features doesn't really qualify), that will be the version(s) that will make rounds - just like today. Additionally the 'Ultimate' version will be cracked to satisfy the 'Must have best version' crowd that previously cackled and downloaded warez versions of such gems as Win2003 Advanced Server for their home PCs so they could have the 'best' Windows. However, most won't want to bother with the extra bloat - or it will be ripped out of the Ultimate and plugged to a suitably modded Corporate version.

    Just my 2 cents...
  • by Ritz_Just_Ritz ( 883997 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:24AM (#13531028)
    At first, I thought having this many versions of the same product would be confusing to customers, but then I realised that M$ has an easy way to determine needs:

    Customer: I want to upgrade my Windows 2000 machine to Vista. Which version do I need?

    M$: Oh that's easy. How much money do you have?
  • I can see it now (Score:3, Insightful)

    by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:27AM (#13531038) Homepage
    OEM's will be bundling Vista Basic to keep their prices down and when the average joe tries to install his video editing software he's going to find out the first thing he has to do is upgrade Windows.

    So besides buying an antivirus subscription and antispyware now the user will have to buy an OS upgrade to do much of anything.

    Fork Vista. I'm SO glad to have started moving away from Windoze long ago.

  • Obvious (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tango42 ( 662363 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:40AM (#13531094)
    It's obvious why they've done it. Now whenever someone complains that windows in too expensive they can say "But we've got cheap version if you want them", so they can charge much more for the better version, knowing perfectly well that nobody will ever actually use Starter Edition, even if it is half the price.

    3 applications? That that include background utilities like virus scanner and firewall? What about IM? So I have AVG, Zonealarm and Trillian running (did I pick the right ones? those are the current choices on /., yes?), so i can't run anything else, not even a browser.
  • What's that sound? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by springbox ( 853816 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:49AM (#13531133)

    If you can't get 'em with quality, hit 'em with quantity!

  • by spideyct ( 250045 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @09:49AM (#13531135)
    That's the last straw. I'm moving to linux, where the choices are much simpler.
  • by unoengborg ( 209251 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @10:06AM (#13531217) Homepage
    Starter Edition, Home Basic Edition, Home Premium Edition, Professional Edition, Small Business Edition, Enterprise Edition, and Ultimate Edition

    I don't care how many flavors they have. Just give me a Working Edition

  • by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @10:16AM (#13531261) Homepage Journal
    You only need 1 version of a desktop OS. Sure you may have *options* on top of that, but this is just marketing to make it sound more important and to suck even more money out of the consumer.

    7? Sheesh.
  • Vista? What a JOKE (Score:5, Insightful)

    by brockbr ( 640130 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @10:35AM (#13531363)
    I make my living as a software architect for a large national corporation using the Win32 platform. I've got over 15 years coding & design experience.

    I started out with Borland products, but slowly migrated to MS products due to the following factors:
    1) Tools were built by the makers of the OS
    2) API Documentation
    3) Microsoft's desire to support the development community
    4) OS stability - Laugh if you like, but at the time there wasn't much else to run on an 8088.

    Screw The Developers
    Recently, Microsoft has decided that the development community needed more "options" - In other words, let's screw all of the MSDN Universal holders into "Upgrading" to a new type of subscription - Therefore changing the concept of "Universal" to mean "Kinda sorta, but not really". You no longer can get "EVERYTHING" any more.

    Screw The Consumer
    Next - They're moving on to Vista (what a STUPID name) with 7 different flavors. They are "creating" a compositing desktop using the graphics hardware and touting it as the next "New Thing(tm)". Instead of using a bitmapped desktop, they've gone to this "new innovation". Uh - Mac OSX has done this since day 1. Nothing new here.

    Along with "Vista", they are incorporating many "new" things - Security concepts that are really just hacks on top of a horrible idea.

    Fundamentally, Microsoft has refused to accept that they themselves perpetuate the security problems they currently have. Most Win32 developers have been bottle fed to accept that the local user has admin rights. They code everything with this assumption. Because of this, Microsoft has had a VERY difficult time securing the desktop. Microsoft has no choice but to try and design around a problem of their own creation.

    Fact is you cannot secure a machine where there is, effectively, no security. I say "effectively" because if all users have all rights, then where is the security?

    Combine the Two Above - Rinse/Wash/Repeat
    This long diatribe is really to sum up that Microsoft has ignored the problems for so long, and is not even prepared to address them with the development community. Even their latest development "security" attempts are too little too late for such an egregious flaw.

    And now, to top it off, they're going to attempt to baffle the world with bullshit by releasing 7 versions of an OS - What a fantastically stupid idea.

    The downward spiral started many years ago, and will end with people like me leaving the platform for something that truly performs - For something not built on technical quicksand.

    (BTW - I type this from my G5 Mac in my home where the last remaining PC is serving as print server and remote desktop to host VS.NET so that I can work at home - They're are now 4 other Macs in the house)
  • by trudyscousin ( 258684 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @11:39AM (#13531748)
    ...has been taking lessons [] from someone else who produces badly-conceived products.

    Lest you think I'm trolling, I have a legitimate question: Why must there be so much stratification?

    Guy Kawasaki was fond of using the analogy of sailors and passengers aboard a ship: "A passenger gets on a ship, plays shuffleboard, and eats at the captain's table. A sailor weighs the anchor, goes into the engine room, and gets grease under his fingernails." He said that a product that was deep, indulgent, complete, and elegant could appeal to both kinds of users.

    What we have here isn't any of these things. Instead, it's what a marketer sees as a way to "add value" and provide "choice" and ultimately increase revenues, but what it will really produce is confusion, because no one is going to be really sure which of Microsoft's offerings will suit them best.
  • Flavours... (Score:4, Funny)

    by rathehun ( 818491 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @12:06PM (#13531904) Homepage
    ...can I have mine in apple? ;)
  • Over here.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by chord.wav ( 599850 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @12:26PM (#13532016) Journal
    In Argentina, most PCs come with one flavor of Linux installed with an XP theme by default.

    Most of users who don't know nothing of OSes, buy it thinking it is XP and they realize that once they already bought them.

    I'm not sure if this is good or bad, more like a Shing Yang.

    PC vendors lower their costs that way, but they don't inform the user about the OS installed.

    Users realize they don't have XP when they try to do something that they used to, or when they try to download MSN. Then, the general line of thinking is "I can't get anything done with Linux, Linux suck" and they get a pirated copy of XP.

    Back to the topic, it's clear that MS don't want to let Linux reach the user. They will encourage PC vendors to sell the Vista version that only boots on odd days and let's you hit the start button once per session. That way they get ahead with this problem.
    Linux has a chance NOW. Linux is actually reaching the user NOW, but fails to demonstrate that it is actually good for the common tasks that the user does.

    I'm not saying that something can't be done with Linux. The problem is that the user simply doesn't realize that yet and they get rid of Linux before they have a chance to do so.
  • by RexRhino ( 769423 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @01:42PM (#13532458)
    I mean, damn. It used to be you would just purchase Windows 95. Then they had the whole XP home and XP Pro thing (with anyone with more sophisticated computer needs than my Grandmother needing XP Pro). Now there are going to be seven versions (and anyone but the most casual user is going to have to spend a grand on the highest end version?).

    Never mind that this goes totally against the principles of normal economics (i.e. the more people who buy something, the less the development cost per unit... and since development cost is the only real cost for software, making less-powerful versions of the software should actually be MORE EXPENSIVE since it requires more work/testing/etc.) But I guess normal economics do not apply when you are a monopoly.

    And never mind that the new OS won't run on anything but high-end machines. And will be utterly crippled with DRM and bloated with a damn 3D vector interface.

    Sorry Microsoft, if I am going to buy a high-end workstation, it is going to be a mac, and everything else is going to be running Linux or FreeBSD. I probably would have continued using Windows just out of habit and so I could run my old software, but for the money I save from buying the highest end Windows OS I should be able to save more money than I would using my old software.

    I mean, is Microsoft activly trying to piss as many people off as possible? I realize that they are just trying to make money, and everyone is basicly selfish... but are they actually under the delusion that consumers are going to go along with this? Is the market for the computer illiterate novice really that big that they can alienate higher end users?
  • by Billly Gates ( 198444 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @01:46PM (#13532484) Journal
    Microsoft in the past has been known to cripple its own VC++ compiler so that the best executables created will only work the the professional and enterprise editions.

    My guess is the frame rates for games will be slowed down in all but the ultimate edition. It will be a classic MS strategy but I will try to be optimistic.

    I dont like the fact that vista already criples video output on purpose to force you to be a drm enabled monitor.

    I think I will stick with Windows2k which I use now. I do like the new avolon api and docking features. It looks alot like object desktop and the customization looks sweet but this other garbage is a big turn off.

  • by rlp ( 11898 ) on Sunday September 11, 2005 @02:18PM (#13532661)
    Hello and Welcome to the Microsoft Support Line!
    If you have Windows Vista Starter Edition - Press 1
    If you have Windows Vista Home Basic Edition - Press 2
    If you have Windows Vista Home Premium Edition - Press 3
    If you have Windows Vista Professional Edition - Press 4
    If you have Windows Vista Small Business Edition - Press 5
    If you have Windows Vista Enterprise Edition - Press 6
    If you have Windows Vista Ultimate Edition - Press 7
    If you wish to upgrade from your old and busted prior version
    of Windows, please have your credit card ready and Press 8
    For all other support requests, please hang up now.

    You pressed 2, if you wish to upgrade to the Ultimate Edition
    please have your credit card ready and Press 1, otherwise Press 2

    You pressed 2, are you SURE that you don't want to upgrade to
    the Ultimate Edition? If so, please have your credit card ready
    and Press 1, otherwise Press 2

    Sigh! You pressed 2 again, please contact your vendor and purchase
    another PC with Windows Vista pre-installed. Thank you for calling
    Microsoft Support Line. ** CLICK **

...there can be no public or private virtue unless the foundation of action is the practice of truth. - George Jacob Holyoake