From TR-1 to iPod mini 195
karvind writes "BBC is running an interesting scoop on first transistor radio which has fair resemblance to iPod mini. The Regency TR-1 transistor radio, made in 1954, had a decent claim to be a genuine piece of innovation, however. It was, by popular agreement, the world's first commercially sold transistor pocket radio. Incidently technology watcher John Ousby realised the modern day parallels and matched photos of the transistor with photos of the iPod mini. The similarity between the two has 'created quite a stir' particularly in the Mac community."
Not as many problems, though... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, though...is it not possible that the iPod was developed w/o Apple having any knowledge of this? It's not like this is some mega-complicated design... it's a small, sqaure MP3 player.
Re:Not as many problems, though... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Not as many problems, though... (Score:5, Funny)
* Do not eat FM Shuffle.
Re:Not as many problems, though... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Not as many problems, though... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, not likely. They've been seeing electronic gear in a box with a dial on it all of their lives. In fact, just about every electronic piece of equipment I own is some sort of box with some sort of dial on it. The "dial" on my VCR is even a "click wheel."
Who woulda thunk that a thing in a box would look vaguely like a thing in a box. The TR-1 itself looked rather like a table radio except for its size and standing long side up to slip in a pocket, instead of long side down to rest on a table. Form followed function, and the form was largely determined by the fact the case was predominantely a speaker enclosure (plus battery box).
It's not like this is some mega-complicated design... it's a small, sqaure MP3 player.
And honestly, if you saw them side by side you wouldn't think they looked any more similar than a table radio and the TR-1. For starters there's about the same proportinal difference in size. The photo of the TR-1 in the story is about life size. Rather noticably larger than a pack of cigarettes, including (which doesn't show in the photo) thickness.
If you put these two devices next to each other with a modern, slim, pocket calculator you'd think the iPod looked far more like the calculator than the radio.
Perhaps the author is reacting to the entirely overhyped nonsense about the iPod's design "innovation." The reason it took so much work to do the "design" of the iPod was specifically because it's just a project box. You just go try and make a project box unique. It's just a bloody box.
Apple managed to do this. When you see an iPod a block away you know it's an iPod. Period. From a block away it bears absolutely no resemblence to the TR-1. Up close the iPod has "fondalability." The TR-1 does not.
This, however, is not technical innovation. It is marketing, and it is marketing again that has given people the idea that the marketing is itself innovation in the device.
It's just a pocket radio. What do you want it to look like, a bunny or something?
KFG
Re:Not as many problems, though... (Score:2)
Agreed. I'm not sure what you meant by the "this... is not technical innovation" comment, but apart from that I'm with you.
This is an overreaction to the overreaction to each successive Ipod. If the Ipod design team did see it, so what? If they didn't see it, they will have grown up with it, or things like it all around them. How can you not be effected by the design of things around you?
I think this is an example of the blog feedback loop creating meaningless noise.
Re:Not as many problems, though... (Score:3, Funny)
Wow, I listen to music with my iPod, what the heck are you doing with yours?
Re:Not as many problems, though... (Score:2, Informative)
So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
So does lipstick.
And radio-controlled toy cars.
Really, if "BUT LOOK AT THE SIMILARITIES!" posts were made for every new product, we'd never get anything done.
Re:So what? (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but one has to do w/women thus no importance on Slashdot and the other isn't made by Apple. That's what
Re:So what? (Score:2)
Re:So what? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:So what? (Score:5, Funny)
Furthermore, I saw my hairstyle in a cave-painting the other week. I think this proves beyond all possible doubt the existence of closed timelike curves in our universe.
Re:So what? (Score:3, Funny)
Have you considered getting a haircut?
Re:So what? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:So what? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Really, if "BUT LOOK AT THE SIMILARITIES!" posts were made for every new product, we'd never get anything done.
I'm reminded of our current patent system.
Re:So what? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So what? (Score:2, Informative)
That particular radio was not "pocket sized" unles you had very large pockets.
It was considered a fantastic achievement of the time that you could hold a radio in one hand, but it was considerably larger than even the biggest iPod, let alone the mini.
Re:So what? (Score:2)
Re:So what? (Score:3, Insightful)
That said, the wheel on the radio is simply a different way of looking at a knob. The knob itself, is a clever way of creating a very small and intuitive interface to a linear series of choices (a paradigm leap in and of itself, moving a linear structure to a circular interface).
Given that, the use of the wheel by Apple isn't so mucy copy-catting
Uh Oh (Score:3, Funny)
Bigger images of the TR-1 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Bigger images of the TR-1 (Score:3, Informative)
Here [nyud.net]
& here [nyud.net]
Better not to (Score:2, Informative)
Apple used to be original (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Apple used to be original (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Apple used to be original (Score:2)
Re:Apple used to be original (Score:2)
Introducing the Apple i-wuh? (Score:2)
Ten bucks (Score:4, Funny)
First one with a link gets +5 Informative!
Re:Ten bucks (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Ten bucks (Score:5, Funny)
Brilliant. A new thieves' cant name for the iPod.
Apply a little cockney rhyming slang... let's see...
Hamilton
Hilton
Paris Hilton.
Got it. From now on, we shall refer to an iPod as a "Paris."
Used in context:
"Well, I 'ad a butcher's at that new Leamington that was Plimsolled out be'ind the bath down the Kermit last night, and what should I notice but a shiney new Paris on the dash. So, make a long story short, I put a copacabana through the Kevin, and Robert is your father's brother. Happy birthday, me old china!"
Re:Ten bucks (Score:2)
Now, can you please translate that into english?
Re:Ten bucks (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Ten bucks (Score:5, Funny)
Heh? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Heh? (Score:5, Insightful)
And I have no idea why the apple crowd is going nuts over this. In fact, if it turned out that Apple did use the TR-1 as an influence, I think that would be incredibly cool. What a great shout-out to the past, modeling the most significant portable music player since the walkman after the one that started them all. How is that not cool?
Single wheel control? (Score:2)
If the tuner and the volume had been controlled by the same wheel, I might say there was some similarity (even though the dial is not at all in the same place). But as it is it's like saying the Nano is just like a jucier, or antyhing else with a spinning piece.
Re:Single wheel control? (Score:2)
Re:Single wheel control? (Score:2)
For God's sake, no one is accusing Apple of ripping off the transistor radio, so all the Apple fanboys can stop getting their hackles up. The question isn't whether the TR-1 functions like the iPod - so the point of the combined volume/tuner is moot - the question is whether there
Re:Single wheel control? (Score:2)
Only the tuning knob is particularly prominent, or even particularly visible from 10 feet. It is also designed to stand out visually, and for the 1950s this would have been a striking, attractive design. Kind of like the iPod.
Or maybe the big tuning disk was not so much a design element as much as it was an engineering choice to allow a normal movement of a thumb to turn the tiny capacitor enough to allow fine tuning of frequencies. Given the state of design in the 1950's (tailfins, anyone?), it's proba
ten feet? (Score:2)
To me the volume control stood out just as much as the tuning wheel, since it just rather prominently from the front.
Re:Heh? (Score:2)
It would also indicate a serious lack of imagination and self-confidence.
Re:Heh? (Score:3, Informative)
That's the point. The entire article is only about visual design. It has nothing to do with how the devices actually function, as the iPod obviously has many differences from a transitor radio.
Maybe if you ignore the first-gen iPod (Score:2, Insightful)
Ignore the obvious! (Score:2)
My take on this it that Apple and the folks who did the TR-1 investigated what design would be best, and then implemented it. It's not uncommon for two different people to come to the same solution to the same problem. It's even common in nature where for example a flying fox a bat is pretty similar, as are a shark and a dolphin.
On the other hand.. Jonathan Ive have previously confessed that he does look at othe
Design is evolutionary, not revolutionary (Score:5, Insightful)
Just about every "trend" in design today can be found in some form or another existing over the past 100 years (possibly multiple times).
Re:Design is evolutionary, not revolutionary (Score:2)
Apple Lisa design also copied (Score:5, Funny)
Wasted bandwidth (Score:2)
Re:Apple Lisa design also copied (Score:2)
I'm really tempted (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I'm really tempted (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I'm really tempted (Score:2)
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
pre iPod mini device found (Score:2, Interesting)
I think there is no connection to the regency TR1 except the colors maybe. But the colors can also come from the mind of a designer or marketeer wanting to make it even more trendy, doing market research and discovering that people want more than just a white iPod.
If the wheel on the TR1 would have been at the scrollwheel location of the iPod mini, and it would have featured a little screen (
Quite a stir (Score:5, Funny)
'Quite a stir', eh? Blimey - no wonder those guys only get one mouse button. Any more and they'd soil themselves in wonder.
Did you know... (Score:4, Informative)
In various shots throughout the film you can see Surfer Mike Hynson sporting the little radio throughout their surfari in Africa!
A really interesting comparison... (Score:4, Insightful)
In some article they stated the radio was like almost US $300 (on today's dollars). But of course I am sure the "Use N' Throw" culture was still not abundant in the USA.
Re:A really interesting comparison... (Score:2)
Re:A really interesting comparison... (Score:2)
The iPod was $299 when it was first released. I would agree that the current culture of consumer electronics is disposable, but prices have nothing to do with it. People just buy more stuff now than they did then.
Yet another case mod. (Score:2, Redundant)
Seems like a nice homage to me. (Score:2, Funny)
I like this comment.... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I like this comment.... (Score:2)
All we need to say is that the new circle is actually a 1-sphere.
Ignoring the fact that the old circle is a 1-sphere too.
It looks quite unlike the iPod (Score:5, Informative)
designed by humans for humans (Score:5, Insightful)
For instance, almost every handheld product, including music players, are a rectangle. The short is sized to fit across the hand, while the long end is made form a pleasing proportion. This works, is comfortable, and many people already know how to utilize it.
Second, the wheel is round because that is how many of us know how to control things. This comes from the fact that in pre-digital age many things were controlled by rheostats. Rheostats used rotational motion to control things like radio tuning, volume, and the like. In the case mention, the radio was likely tuned by turning a large gear on the wheel, which turned a rheostat, which adjusted the resistance in a circuit that tuned the radio. Under a piece of clear plastic, which was marked with an indicator line, the frequency numbers were printed so the user might know approximately the tune frequency. This was a great design,as it provided a simple way to make the radio usable, but was probably more a result of expedient. The combination of the need to fit in the hand, and the need to simply and reliably indicate the radio tuning, gave the device in question it's shape and characteristics.
Over time changes were made. Some mechanisms were added so the rotational motion of the rheostat could be converted to linear motion so a linear indicator might be utilized. Digital electronics made the rheostat obsolete, but since people knew how to turn knobs, the knob motif continued to be used. Which leads to the iPod. It fits in the hand, which gives it the shape. People know how to use knobs to select, and the knob provides a more continuous experience than up and down buttons. So the big circle transforms from the display to the selector, while the display becomes a square LED. The colors are added to differentiate the product in the market, but are expensive to stock. Really, there is not similarity between the radio and the iPod, except that both devices fit in the hand, and the transistor radio perhaps taught us how to use knobs.
Re:designed by humans for humans (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually, radios (even small ones) of that era had the tuning knob attached directly to the shaft of a capacitor which was used to tune the radio. Using a rheostat (actually, a potentiometer) to tune small radios via the action of a varactor w
Re:designed by humans for humans (Score:2)
Rheostats are simply variable resistors. They're also called "potentiometers" or "trimming potentiometers" (aka trimpot). It just happens that this particular instance used rotary action. They also come in linear variaties. As such, the real answer here is that the rheostat was part of the tuning circuit in this instance.
My dad worked for Bourns [bourns.com] in the early 1960s. They still make the guts [bourns.com] behind [bourns.com] the frequency thumbwh
Re:designed by humans for humans (Score:2)
WTF? (Score:2)
Are you still talking about the radio?
Evidence of Intelligent Design (Score:5, Funny)
Of course, micro-adaptation might explain the subtle differences between the TR-1 and the iPod, but the genesis of the form is surely supernatural.
Also, have you noticed that the Wheel Interface is actually just perfect for anyone having a Noodly Appendage?
Re:Evidence of Intelligent Design (Score:2)
(emhpasis mine) Yes, a rectangle to fit in a rectangular pocket and a circle because it is symmetrical on all axes and can therefore revolve... highly complex forms.
C'mon now, we all know that such forms could have evolved all on their own.
Any day now, atechogenesis will be demonstrated in vitro.
Re:Evidence of Intelligent Design (Score:2)
Re:Evidence of Intelligent Design (Score:2)
I read this: It takes a mysterious spark of intelligence to create such an elegant form. as this: It takes a mysterious spark of intelligence to create such an elephant form. - Sure intelligent design in action!
TFA has a fact wrong... (Score:4, Informative)
It is also "recognized by many" that the earth is flat. That doesn't make it so.
A 1949 song by Little Richard is more commonly and correctly credited with being the first rock song, although it could be argued that John Lee Hooker's 1949 blues song "Shake, Rattle and Run" (later ripped off in tune and most of its lyrics in the late 50s as "Shake, Rattle and Roll") was the first rock and roll song.
However, the term "Rock and Roll" was coined by Ohio disk jockey Alan Freed in September 1952, a full two years before Prestly's song came out and a full three years after Little Richard's and Mr. Hooker's songs were made.
One would think a real journalist could do the tiniest bit of research. But I suppose one would be incorrect about that as well.
1949? Little Richard didn't record until 1951 (Score:3, Insightful)
There are many songs from the late 40's that claim to be the first rock and roll song. Those songs include Ike Turner's Rocket 88, Wynonie Harris' Good Rockin' Tonight, and Fats Domino's The Fat Man. None of those cited, however, are Little Richard's.
the TR-1 is important anyway (Score:4, Interesting)
I contest this assertion (Score:4, Interesting)
TR-1 to Walkman to iPod (Score:5, Interesting)
You mean, Apple might have copied the aesthetic design of an old Walkman, and the functionality of an ancient transistor radio?? Could this possibly be an image of the long sought after missing link, between the TR-1 and the iPod?!? Oh no! Technological evolution!! Say it isn't so!!
Honestly! If Apple's aesthetic design team hadn't researched successful designs of years gone by, I would be absolutely astonished! The innovation here wasn't in the physical appearances of the iPod, (as shown by these images of the TR-1 and that random Walkman on the link above) or in the functionality of the iPod (MP3 players already existed from other companies) or even in the interface design (as indicated by recent patent issues [slashdot.org] brought up by Creative Technology). Apple's innovation here was the integration of all these distinct elements into a single elegantly designed device: the iPod -- which as everyone knows by now, caused the fledgling MP3 market to finally take root! Simply put, Apple did what others had already been trying to do... but they did it right.
(Oh yeah... and I guess the iTunes Music Store may have had something to do with it too.)
Innovation isn't just being first (Score:4, Informative)
By the article's logic, neither the TR-1 nor the iPod are actually innovative. The car industry came up with the concept of a product in multiple colors well before then, and the concept of a smaller lighter radio just builds upon the pre-existing transistor radio. What the author doesn't seem to see is that almost all technology builds upon pre-existing ideas. The automobile is based upon the pre-existing idea of the wheel, and the engine- which in turned is built upon the idea of a steam engine. The CD player is the child of the radio, the laser, and the record player. It isn't so much about coming up with the idea first as it is about improving upon it. To be an innovator you don't have to re-invent the mouse trap, you just have to make it better.
Re:Innovation isn't just being first (Score:2)
I sure hope you don't grumble too loud when getting mad at the iPod gushers since you don't even have your facts straight.
Retro, Not Ripoff (Score:2)
Look at the great books through history many of them are similar, especially in Sci Fi. Some are blantant rip off but others give honor to those they reference. There's a difference there and that's the difference between Windows and the Ipod. Windows has constantly ripped off the Macintosh's interface, and yet given no
How are two wheels the same as one (Score:3, Insightful)
Some people have an odd obsession to bring down Apple a few notches whenever they can by whatever means possible, this just continues the tradition.
Re:How are two wheels the same as one (Score:2)
Some have an odd obsession to take everything as an insult to Apple and a personal insult to themnselves.
The attempt (Score:2)
How popular was the TR-1 anyway?
I see you carry the same torch.
I am of course not tied to Apple in any way, you seem to have a rather curious negative attachmnet to them though in that you insist on deriding Apple supporterd. I guess everyone needs a hobby.
Monitor and an Aquarium (Score:5, Funny)
Your monitor has glass on the side? (Score:2)
What similarity? (Score:4, Interesting)
The TR-1 has a round metal dial that rotates, mounted on the center shaft of a tuning capacitor.
The iPod has no metal dial does not rotate, and no tuning capacitor.
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The TR-1 has a speaker grille with a plain old voice-coil and permanent magnet speaker behind it.
The iPod has no speaker grille and no speaker.
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The TR-1 came in a very fragile styrene plastic case, which was likely to shatter at the first drop.
The iPod comes in a metal and poly-butyl-acrilate case, very sturdy and hard to break.
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The TR-1 had exactly FOUR transistors, one diode, and a handful of parts, all hand-soldered to a single-layer PC board.
The iPod has, oh, at least 100,000 transistors, many many parts, all automatically placed and soldered onto a four-layer PC board.
---------
OH I GET it NOW! They both have PC boards! WOw!!!
Re:What similarity? (Score:2)
Proof at last that design of pockets ... (Score:2)
What? (Score:2)
I'd be more worried about the similarities between Tiger and Vista!
better battery on the TR-1 (Score:2)
Now the question is, did Triumph steal their car names from it or the reverse?
And the idiots come out to play (Score:2)
$343.45 in 2005 Dollars (Score:2)
This just in... (Score:3, Funny)
If I can't get FM in the Ipod... (Score:2)
Psychics, Above Average Intelligence and Connectio (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, these designs do look pretty close.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Modell T4 [radiodesign.de]
Probably more of a coincedence, however.