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The Internet Businesses IT

Web Traffic Snarls Sites on Black Friday 105

eweekhickins writes "A surge of e-commerce traffic on Thanksgiving night and all day Friday apparently caught several retail giants by surprise, with Lowe's, Macys and Victoria's Secret especially hard hit. In fact, almost a third of leading retailers suffered significant slowdowns on Black Friday, according to statistics released this weekend by Keynote Competitive Research, a firm that tracks Web site performance."
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Web Traffic Snarls Sites on Black Friday

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  • Sears.com was hit (Score:5, Informative)

    by compwizrd ( 166184 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @12:55AM (#21475639)
    Sears was responsive enough, not much in slowdowns. However, once you put something into your cart, it wouldn't allow you to remove it... had to delete cookies to get a new cart.
    • by Datamonstar ( 845886 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:39AM (#21475851)
      That's a feature. Good way to FORCE a shopper to buy something. In the brick & mortar store I used to work at we used krazy glue.
    • by cjb-nc ( 887319 )
      The Sears website was working fine on Saturday morning. The follow-up is still slow. I placed an order before 10AM on Saturday. I only just now (Monday, 11AM) received an email telling me that they are too backlogged to send me an email to confirm my order. As for when I can go pickup my item from the store... that's anyone's guess.
      • by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        Funny, I tried to get to the Sears website from my iPhone on Saturday morning (probably about 10:30 or 10:45 Central time, but I'm not exactly sure), and it was inaccessible. I had no trouble reaching other sites (Slashdot, CNN). I kept trying for about five or six minutes and I couldn't get the front page to load. It got as far as the redirect off the main URL and then failed to load the following URL. I have no way to know whether they actually had site problems or some critical backbone router went d

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by origamy ( 807009 )
      I was online at around 5.50am(PST) when Sears.com died. I was opening a new page to view the details of one product and that new page would not show up. Sears.com would also not work in a new page. Shortly after 6am I was able to get back into the site, only to see the prices had gone up!
    • by PuckSR ( 1073464 )
      Yeah....and unfortunately Sears uses the same system for Sears.com and their in-store ordering system. Typically wouldn't cause much of a problem, but for some reason Sears tries to heavily restrict its in-store merchandise and works from several "warehouses" that typically deliver 6 times a week to the stores. Kinda stupid, but it keeps their total inventory in-store low... Anyways, they still haven't completely restored the system yet....and this is after an incident 3 years ago on Black Friday that caus
  • Why... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by kungfujesus ( 969971 )
    Why don't these huge stores buy servers that can take the strain? sure, they may be ridiculously overpowered for most of the year, but being able to function on black friday is extremely important for their bottom line.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by snl2587 ( 1177409 )
      Money
    • Re:Why... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by DerekLyons ( 302214 ) <fairwater@gmai l . c om> on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:11AM (#21475717) Homepage
      How do you know they didn't have huge servers - just not huge enough? (Ditto for bandwidth, etc...)
       
      Seriously, predicting traffic is pretty much a black art. Even if you build out for what you thought would be enough, you still could get caught flatfooted.
      • Re:Why... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by mcrbids ( 148650 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:54AM (#21475907) Journal
        Seriously, predicting traffic is pretty much a black art. Even if you build out for what you thought would be enough, you still could get caught flatfooted.

        Hear Hear! This man speaks wisdom!

        A year ago, I purchased a number of 1u 4-way servers in anticipation of rising demand. Based on rough guess of processing speed and current workload, I made an estimate of how long these servers would handle the load.

        Now, a year has gone by, and the load has only risen slightly, despite a dramatic increase in traffic! Bandwidth has risen sharply, yet the server load still floats at around 3-5% all day long, while based on my past estimates, would should be routinely hitting 25% and spiking to 200% from time to time.

        It's rare that it ever hits 20%. But disk usage is out through the roof - now at about 3x initial guess. Our customers are USING THE CRAP out of our services, but apparently refinements in the software over the past year (caching, etc) have all but completely negated any performance hit from the increased load.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by aussie_a ( 778472 )

        Seriously, predicting traffic is pretty much a black art.
        So should we burn practisers or hire them in order to reach fill the quota?
      • I think it goes beyond predicting traffic. I did some work this year for a Large Retailer Which Shall Not Be Named. They bought a lot of hardware for a new code from an Outsourcing Vendor new platform from a Proprietary Unix Vendor. The new code has been problematic, but they spent a lot of time sorting through bugs and performance issues, including a ton of load testing.

        My Large Retailer friends had problems on Black Friday, despite a ton of new hardware and extensive load testing. What they found was that
    • Re:Why... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by interiot ( 50685 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:31AM (#21475817) Homepage
      And why don't the brick-and-mortars open up at midnight, with 3 times the normal cash registers open? Because the near riot [cadenhead.org] is good for business when it gets covered in the local news. There's a reason that each store stocks 12 units of the best deal, and most of the other prices are just normal sale prices... that generates an aura of crazed shopping, and a line of 200 people who are willing to stand hours in the cold -- 188 of whom will be buying products at a profit.
    • Re:Why... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by BosstonesOwn ( 794949 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:35AM (#21475831)
      It's retail they don't spend before it happens , they try and save a buck when they can.

      My experience at a retail business was exactly that. We had to have weeks of slow networks and servers in order to get the ok to get vendors in to bid on selling us gear. It was a huge joke.

      They should host with companies like akimai who can provide bandwidth on demand.
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by jrexilius ( 520067 )
        Akamai is great but it doesn't help shopping carts or processing. Its only good for offloading the static bits (gifs, js, css, flash, etc.). It helps but still not the big win. (Full disclosure - my company http://hostedlabs.com/ [hostedlabs.com] is in this space and I know a thing or two about how hard this is)
    • Re:Why... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:59AM (#21475925)
      Posting anonymously since I'm too close to this...

      I've worked with all of the companies mentioned at one time or another. Some do better planning than others. Quite simply, Black Friday represents a worst-case-scenario for an ecommerce site. Either you build out enough extra capacity to handle it (and we're not talking a couple servers here - we'd be talking more like hundreds of servers, not to mention massive database backends) and pay for it (both hardware, management, bandwidth, storage, etc), or you don't build out any extra and get slammed. Tens of millions of dollars of equipment and management, all for one day. Or what most companies do - you build out enough to handle the brunt of it, make as much profit as you can, and some peaks you just don't handle because it's not worth the massive investment to handle 100% of the traffic. It's a cost-benefit analysis, plain and simple. I can't comment in too much detail, but some of the companies listed did exactly this, and some... well, let's just say they didn't invest nearly enough. That's their choice.

      (Please recall that a OnDemand type of initiatives don't handle this - the idea behind them is there is extra capacity that you "switch on" on a moment's notice to handle a spike. The problem is that there's no capacity when everyone is hit at the same time. OnDemand is great if your peak is at a time when someone else's isn't - they get extra capacity at that time (for instance, flowers and greeting card companies on holidays, retailers on Black Friday). Here, everyone needs capacity at the exact same time. It's simply brutal.)

      It will be an interesting week as we get more data on Black Friday and everyone filters back in from Thanksgiving (mind you, many of us were working all this weekend, and some serious overtime monitoring and improving the situation however we could).
      • by cerberusss ( 660701 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @07:44AM (#21477629) Journal
        When the peak hits, why don't e-commerce sites switch to a simpler interface? The gazillion queries that these sites do for one page can be completely switched off. For instance, I'd rather be able to put a book in my shopping cart WITHOUT stuff like:
        - "people who bought this article, also bought"
        - Full text search
        - Customer reviews
        - Editorial review
        - Offers "Buy together with hacksaw, 15% off"

        And the gazillion datamining queries done by the website.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by BigDogCH ( 760290 )
          Excellent point. I had trouble loading newegg all weekend...where normally it is really fast. Their site already has a built in option for a high or low bandwidth version of their site.......why couldn't they just force everyone to the low version (I am assuming this would save bandwidth and server load, less queries). Yeah sure, it would be missing some fancy tools, and some flash (darn), but it seems far better than turning customers away. I wonder how many $ a site like Newegg lost for each minute of
        • by danbert8 ( 1024253 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @10:36AM (#21479425)
          This is an excellent point. Companies just keep sticking more fancy looking crap on their websites leaving bandwidth unchanged.
           
          My university did this with the registration website. The added flash and java to make it look cool, except when registration time hit, all that load brought the registration server to its knees. When many students weren't able to register for several days after their allotted time, the system was reverted to the plain ol' html interface it was before. When will websites realize that just because your public has the bandwidth, doesn't mean they need to use it?
        • by zoward ( 188110 )
          When the peak hits, why don't e-commerce sites switch to a simpler interface?

          My favorite example of this: when the pope died, and the College of Cardinals met to vote on the new pope. Once the white smoke emerged from the Sistine Chapel chimney (indicating that the ballots had been burned and a new pope elected), the Vatican web site got HAMMERED. I looked, and then looked back a little later, and instead of seeing the web site, I only saw two words at the top of the screen:

          It's Ratzinger.

          Now that's a s

      • In terms of network capacity, no, capacity on demand won't be there if everybody needs it.

        In terms of server capacity, though, you can buy servers with additional CPU and memory which are not activated. Both Sun and IBM have programs where you buy a server with unlicensed CPUs and/or memory. If you need additional capacity down the line, they'll happily sell you either temporary or permanent licenses for the unlicensed CPUs and/or memory. Personally, I have more experience with this from the IBM side.

        Does i
      • I am curious - have you tried http://www.hyperic.com/ [hyperic.com] at all to help manage these swells in traffic? It's exactly what its designed to do - monitor and manage web infrastructure and help manage availability/capacity. Several large hosting companies that are experts in managing changing traffic patterns use it with great success - like Contegix, Mosso (a division of Rackspace), and USi. You are right though - some of these traffic floods would take extra millions in infrastructure to really handle, but some
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by SeaFox ( 739806 )

      Why don't these huge stores buy servers that can take the strain?

      I used to work for the Dept of Education (by way of a subcontractor) and the site I supported (the one your submit you government college financial aid form through) had the same problem. Several times a year it would slow to a crawl or not really be usable at all. The days this happened were the days that states required forms be filed by to be eligible. Despite the fact there are 365 days in a year, it seemed there were only a dozen or so da

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by cskrat ( 921721 )
      The answer is simple. The people that ultimately decide what gets purchased are businessmen and not engineers. As such they will try to exactly hit the minimum required amount of equipment to handle the situation. Unfortunately they will also use a naive method of determining that minimum, i.e. they may look at the number of sales transactions for the last couple years on that day and then use that information to project a number of 'visitors' to have the IT department prepare for.

      The network manager, if th
  • O RLY? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Pinckney ( 1098477 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @12:57AM (#21475651)
    Who would have guessed that tens of thousands of people trying to use a website all at once would cause it to slow down?
  • VS down? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Would someone please think of the panties!

    Seriously though, I'll be really pissed if my S.O. tried to order some for herself and couldn't.

    captcha: populate
    heh
    • "Seriously though, I'll be really pissed if my S.O. tried to order some for herself and couldn't."

      More pissed than if she tried to order some for you and couldn't?

      Seriously though, I don't know about you, but I kind of like it when your S.O. goes ALL naked down there...
  • Quick, the tubes are clogged! Call Senator Stevens so we can regulate it!
  • by WK2 ( 1072560 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:03AM (#21475681) Homepage
    victoriassecret.com was working fine last time I checked. For research.
  • blame (Score:2, Interesting)

    by shawn443 ( 882648 )
    Since the article makes no mention. I will not blame perl, apache, or linux. I will blame .net, IIS, and of course PHB's.
    • Re:blame (Score:5, Funny)

      by shawn443 ( 882648 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:25AM (#21475785)
      my moderation luck sucks lately. hasn't been this bad since I wrote a javascript is awesome post.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      Mods missed the point, all 3 of the sites listed in the article appear to be using Apache or similar on the front page. IIS is more often associated with IT meltdown and security breaches (Monster.com, etc).

      And the author misses some important info. The front page loads OK, but search and payments are slow. Its not the web servers that are the problem, but the backend database and transaction systems. These are going to be stuff like DB2 on IBM mainframes, high-end Oracle systems, or 3rd party transaction p
  • by Lehk228 ( 705449 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:06AM (#21475689) Journal
    as compared to the physical locations which were just as fast as normal and didn't have long waits while shopping.....
  • by popo ( 107611 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:07AM (#21475703) Homepage
    Is it just me, or is the term "Black Friday" being used much more this year than in previous years? Maybe I'm the only clueless one, but I was seeing it so much I Wiki'd it for a little explanation: the root of the term (and if this is well known to all, my apologies... I'm slow that way) is that the balance sheets of retailers are typically "in the black" by the Friday following Thanksgiving.

    I can't help thinking it sounds more like a stock market crash than a "good thing".

    • by forkazoo ( 138186 ) <wrosecrans@@@gmail...com> on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:12AM (#21475725) Homepage

      Is it just me, or is the term "Black Friday" being used much more this year than in previous years? Maybe I'm the only clueless one, but I was seeing it so much I Wiki'd it for a little explanation: the root of the term (and if this is well known to all, my apologies... I'm slow that way) is that the balance sheets of retailers are typically "in the black" by the Friday following Thanksgiving.


      Apparently, Black Friday is extremely well known, even internationally. I passingly know a fellow who grew up in Germany and moved to the US this year, and was very excited about his first chance to see Black Friday shopping in person after having heard so much about it. Seeing Americans in a consumerism frenzy must be a bit like watching sharks in a feeding frenzy, I guess.
      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        I went shopping on Black Friday a few years ago. My general comment has been that I will only do it again if I'm armed. Those people are freaking crazy. It's like a bunch of rabid Tasmanian devils...
        • by SeaFox ( 739806 )

          I went shopping on Black Friday a few years ago. My general comment has been that I will only do it again if I'm armed.

          You could go back with a laser on your head (going off the previous comment).
      • I live in Australia, never been to the US, but know some people from there. However, we hear stories about Black Friday, and I even looked into shopping online for Black Friday/Cyber Monday, etc.

        It's internationally known
    • by UserChrisCanter4 ( 464072 ) * on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:18AM (#21475743)
      Please read the wiki again; the root of the term is the high stress caused to transportation workers. The first citation anyone can find refers to the traffic snarls and the associated headaches for traffic police, cab/bus drivers, etc.

      As the wiki points out (and common sense will tell you), bleeding money for 11 months of the year and hoping to recoup it in the last one is one of the most asinine business plans since the "???->profit" joke. Similarly, the wiki points out that quarterly SEC filings from any decent retailer will show you that they do make a profit in the other quarters, as well.

      Unless you're a Christmas decoration specialty retailer or something similar, waiting until the fourth Friday in November to turn a profit would be a recipe for failure.
      • by popo ( 107611 )
        ... hasty skimming is always a bad idea.

        Yeap. You're right.
      • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Yes, but you know how accountants are. They will take the yearly retail PROFITS and figure it is approximately 1/12th of yearly SALES, and "conclude" that retailers operate in the red 11 months or yer and turn black staring "black Friday" - as in all profits happen starting then. The monthly and quarterly picture is quite different, of course. This is the same as saying we work till May 17 (or so) every year to just pay taxes. Imagine not taking home a paycheck until almost mid-year!
    • by Moraelin ( 679338 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:23AM (#21475773) Journal
      If it makes you feel any better, you're not the only one. Any other application of "black" to a day seems to have meanings a lot more... well, dark.

      E.g., "Black Tuesday" is when the Great Depression hit.

      Heck, even "Black Friday", other than that particular meaning, was applied to massacres, riots, major financial scandals, you get the idea.

      So I can't help wonder what kind of idiot chose "Black Friday" to mean "we're selling lots of stuff". I mean, gee, it must be such a dark and depressing thing.

      More importantly, it's the kind of language that obscures instead of informing. For someone who doesn't know that particular pun already, it evokes the exact opposite image. I'll confess that I too, when reading that summary, was left thinking, basically, that it was some great catastrophe that befell them.

      On second thought, though, heh, it sounds like what marketers and management tend to do to sound smart... when they aren't. Now I'm not saying that all of them are clueless, far from it. Just that you can often tell the ones who _are_, by the inclination to speak gobbledygook and think that having a buzzword for everything makes them so great.
      • Traditionally ( ie: prior to visicalc ) profits were recorded in black ink, and losses in red ink. This kind of made sense, for the losses were things that had to be tended to quickly, and in red ink they stood out. This eventually led to the phrases '...in the red' ( Operating at a loss ) and '...in the black' ( Making a profit ). So a reference to black was a positive thing.
        • Yes, and in the same age of red ink and black ink, the day of the Great Depression was still called "Black Tuesday", not "Red Tuesday."
          • 'Red' and 'black' were used by the professionals, not by the average person.

            What made Black Tuesday unique was that the losses affected hundreds of thousands of non-profesional investors. Black Tuesday was named by people who had probably never even seen a ledger or spreadsheet. Different group of people use different words.

            Had the losses been restricted to a smaller group of professional investors, it probably would have been named 'Red Tuesday'.
      • Heck, even "Black Friday", other than that particular meaning, was applied to massacres, riots, major financial scandals, you get the idea.

        So perhaps that's where the phrase "making a killing" comes in? ;-)

      • Heck, even "Black Friday", other than that particular meaning, was applied to massacres, riots, major financial scandals, you get the idea.

        So I can't help wonder what kind of idiot chose "Black Friday" to mean "we're selling lots of stuff". I mean, gee, it must be such a dark and depressing thing.
        It makes perfect sense to every retail chain sales drone that's had to work on a busy holiday.
      • by RyoShin ( 610051 )

        So I can't help wonder what kind of idiot chose "Black Friday" to mean "we're selling lots of stuff". I mean, gee, it must be such a dark and depressing thing.

        My understanding of the origin is that for most of the year, businesses are slightly in the red (where red represents a negative number in accounting) from costs, and the spur of sales (both discount and normal) on that Friday puts the retailers into the "black" (or positive) cash.

        I'm not a business owner, so I have no idea if this is the way it actua

    • In a nutshell, it's the day retailers finally turn a profit for the year - they move "into the black". Little scary that it takes that long, isn't it?
    • It's being hyped by retail interests; that's why you're hearing about it more. They're mainly doing this with traditional advertising (ad spots, mailers, etc), but media coverage can be said to be a component of that. While the 10 o'clock news is not an advertisement in the sense that an infomercial is, the news is sponsored by adverts and thus those same retailers. Thus, the media has a vested interest in trying to get people out to the malls.

      Of course, the reason that retailers want to get people out to

    • by xPsi ( 851544 ) * on Monday November 26, 2007 @02:58AM (#21476151)

      Is it just me, or is the term "Black Friday" being used much more this year than in previous years? Maybe I'm the only clueless one, but I was seeing it so much I Wiki'd it for a little explanation: the root of the term (and if this is well known to all, my apologies... I'm slow that way) is that the balance sheets of retailers are typically "in the black" by the Friday following Thanksgiving.

      I can't help thinking it sounds more like a stock market crash than a "good thing".

      Definitely puts Black Sabbath in a whole new light for me. So much for the "70s cool evil schtick", they were just making a financial statement.
    • I've noticed this as well. Having been a retail manager for years and done other work in retail, I'll say that me and my workers called it Black Friday for a few reasons. We had to open the store up at some ungodly hour (3-4 hours early), and the sheer amount of people who came in on Friday. I was a manager for one of the countries largest book chains, and as asinine as it sounds, many of our stores did nearly half the yearly business from mid November to late December. Something clicks in a lot of peop
      • Something clicks in a lot of peoples brains that "oh crap, xmas is how many days off, time to shop."
        That or if they change their mind on a gift, they can still return it and get something else before Christmas.
    • I thought it was because it's a day you'll want to avoid shops like the plague.

      (if there's one thing I can't stand, it's shopping on a busy day)
    • The term is more based on the workers woes.
      It's black for whoever works that day because it's the first day after thanksgiving that everyone except retail workers have off, and actually have a chance to do christmas shopping.

      It's mutated alot through the years.
  • by flabbergast ( 620919 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:12AM (#21475727)
    "Consumers might also be more patient with a graphic-intensive site that has images they truly want to see. Victoria's Secret, for example, experienced a huge slowdown Thursday night--from a 5-second response to a 15-second response--but White speculated that its customers might be more tolerant of delays because they're expecting a more graphic-intensive experience, and the delay is thus worth waiting through."

    Right, I tolerated the delays because VS is simply "graphic-intensive". Uh-huh... yeah, that's it.
  • by nick_davison ( 217681 ) on Monday November 26, 2007 @01:26AM (#21475799)

    ...with Lowe's, Macys and Victoria's Secret especially hard hit.
    Black Friday has nothing to do with it. I like to "research" what I would buy a hypothetical girlfriend, should I have one, every Friday. The only difference was that I had all of this Friday free.

    Uh, I mean, that's what I imagine some theoretical person might have been doing.

    Look! A beowulf cluster! *runs*
    • and Victoria's Secret especially hard hit.....Look! A beowulf cluster!
      You are mistaken. It's a boob cluster.
  • except being too cheap. Of course, to upper management, this was a failing of the IT staff whose hide will appropriately beaten on Monday. Never mind that the IT department had been begging for more machines and memory all year. After all, a Harvard MBA knows far more about capacity planning than a lowly IT employee.

    As usual, the CEO's, and upper management, will receive huge bonuses and the rest will suffer.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by lakeland ( 218447 )
      Try viewing it from the other side of the fence.

      From upper management's perspective there are dozens of great ideas - some will boost the brand, some will help fill niches that competitors are festering in, some will cement loyalty, some will increase appreciation by best customers, grow the number of best customers, decrease churn, reactivate customers, grow the customer base, provide additional channels for purchase, shift horizontally, shift vertically, decrease long term overheads, increase flexibility
      • As much as your post is so full of buzz terms it could be out of a dilbert comic (and you spelled competitors wrong), your last paragraph is probably accurate for most companies... but that is only because of incompetence in implementation, not necessarily the value of the ideas themselves.
        • Yeah, sorry about that. It was partially deliberate as I was trying to give the point of view of the person hearing proposals all day, but probably they've permeated my consciousness such that I can now say them with a straight face...

          And while I agree about IT why projects fail, how do you get the competence necessary to ensure project success? The number of skilled senior IT manages I have met is ... well, not quite zero. Even if you manage to get one, how do you hold on to them? And if you have ordinar
  • An even worse experience awaits online shoppers when they find out that the United States Postal Service is routinely destroying all electronic devices sent by mail to international customers. Truckloads of products are heading for landfills while people are awaiting their purchases.

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