Microsoft Cuts Vista Price In 70 Countries 257
dforristall alerts us to an odd move by Microsoft: cutting the price of retail boxes of Vista in many markets. Analysts didn't see this one coming, and they are scratching their heads a bit over it; one called it "very unheard of." The price cuts vary by country — they're largest in the developing world where piracy levels are high — and they don't apply to OEM copies of Vista, which account for 90% of sales. "Gartner analyst Michael Silver said the move... is puzzling... [He] noted that the market for such upgrades is fairly limited. Those who bought XP in the fourth quarter of 2006 got a coupon for a free Vista upgrade, while most of those who have bought systems since then have gotten Vista. Machines purchased prior to 2006 probably aren't all that attractive as candidates for a Vista upgrade... 'The whole notion of upgrading PCs has sort of fallen by the wayside.'"
They need to drop the price of XP (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Seriously, that might make more sense (Score:2)
That would still lock people into msft, but it look better from a PR point of view. And msft apparently considers PR very valuable.
If there were an XP firesale, msft could say "Yeah, nobody wants junky old worn-out XP anymore. Everybody wants a shiny new Vista."
Also, XP would be more attractive to those with lower-end hardware.
Selling more Vista will just piss more people off
Re:They need to drop the price of XP (Score:4, Insightful)
Most people generally find the ability to browse the internet, see pictures, play music etc quite useful. How exactly do you propose getting new apps onto your computer if you don't have some basic form of web browser anyway? Are you going to order everything on CD? Way to be traveling in the wrong direction..!
Oh, and Mac OS actually includes very good built in software for almost everything you said up there, apart from the drawing pictures (AFAIK). Personally I don't like iTunes though, so as well as Firefox and the GIMP, I downloaded VLC. I see no problem with any OS distribution including applications that can make the thing more useful though. If you don't want all that stuff in Windows, remove it in the Windows configuration bit in add/remove programs.
i know whats coming next (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:i know whats coming next (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:i know whats coming next (Score:5, Funny)
Pinky: What are we going to do tonight, Brain?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky. TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!
Re: (Score:2)
Re:i know whats coming next (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, naming a chipmaker INTEL doesn't help reassuring tinfoil hats
Re:i know whats coming next (Score:4, Funny)
Re:i know whats coming next (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't know why someone marked the parent as troll, but it's unfair as this is a reasonable explanation as it both fits the observed fact and there are groups with means and motive to do this. We also have previous instances of this sort of behaviour from these groups and of private companies complicity in such activity (including Microsoft). As to the other poster who discounted this because a hardware solution would make much more sense, that's hardly a solid counter-argument because a hardware solution would firstly be more difficult to implement, crossing multiple areas of hardware requirements and manufacturers in all probability (including manufacturers in countries such as Germany and China), we don't know what companies behind the scenes are amenable to aiding US spying efforts and a hardware solution seems likely to be less flexible.
This is not to say that this is the reasoning behind Microsoft's desperate attempt to get people to take up Vista. A private awareness that if they don't lock people into their O/S using the drm mechanisms in Vista, that they're in serious trouble. Could also be the reason. Or it could be multiple reasons. But certainly the parent shouldn't be modded a troll because it's a strong possibility. Installing subversive software on people's machines is one of the first things that I thought of when I read this article.
The price only matters... (Score:2, Informative)
if the product works.
Did they fix that? I thought not. Nothing to see here.
Modding myself down (Score:2, Funny)
No fair, you added two more people to your "foes" list making me not the only guy on it any more.
Now my feelings are hurt!
This is aimed at power users... (Score:5, Informative)
Taken together, Microsoft's actions of the last few weeks : decreasing the price of Vista, giving away Visual Studio to Students, publishing specifications, all point towards an effort to attract developers to their platform. Even the channel partnerships that I railed about earlier are structured to attract developers. Clearly, Microsoft knows something that we don't know, and, I think it is that Linux development is starting to reach a critical mass for them to be really concerned about it. I wonder how much trouble Microsoft realizes it is in.
There is a demographic factor going on as well. A lot of we formerly reliable Windows zealots are now in our 30s and 40s, and suddenly money that would be spent on graphics cards and Windows upgrades is now getting plowed into our over-priced houses and our children. It's like, I would have stayed up in line to get Vista Ultimate the day it came out, but instead, I bought diapers, soy milk and a thomas the tank engine train set for my son. Having jonesed for some sort of an upgrade to my PC, I went with Ubuntu instead, and its pretty satisfying.
Linux has hit that point where, it may not be the best in terms of a consumer operating system, but its often good enough, and installing it just works.
Re:This is aimed at power users... (Score:5, Insightful)
That statement there might be the scariest thing for Microsoft. Microsoft pretty much based their entire business around "good enough." If Linux is "good enough" also and has the added benefit of being free, then that will take sales away from Microsoft. That combines with Microsoft's main competition (their own older versions which are "good enough" for most people) to make for a really bad situation for Microsoft to be in.
Re:This is aimed at power users... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It already is "better enough"; at least, the distro I'm using is. Unlike MS It's secure. Unlike MS it's stable. Unlike MS I can have the thing boot in exactly the state I left it in, with all the programs I was running when I shut it off running when I start it back up. Those are just a few things and there are a whole lot more advantages to Linux over Windows.
What Linux needs is for non-Linux users to be shown the advantages.
Re: (Score:2)
Note also that in the corporate world, many people don't install their OS, they get it installed by the IT guy. A pointy-haired boss may want to try Linux, he'll just call an IT guy and ask him for it.
Re:This is aimed at power users... (Score:5, Insightful)
From the very beginning, there were better alternatives to MS-DOS. Problem was, they were expensive and not viable on low-end hardware. Microsoft's attempts to move upscale have been a mixed bag. Apple did a better job [eventually] on the desktop, and Linux took over the low end of the spectrum (along with a huge threat on the server side and the possibility to go upscale on the desktop as well).
This brings us to where we are today -- a scary time to be Microsoft. As far as pricing is concerned, how low do they need to go if Linux is free? Is low pricing of any use against OS X? I doubt it.
It may be impossible for MS to maintain compatibility with the installed base AND go upscale at the same time. Either way, they are vulnerable to attack from competitors on all sides. From the customer point of view: If you have money to spend, OS X is great. If not, Linux is cheaper. Who needs Vista at any price?
Re: (Score:2)
I don't think so (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe, but I haven't seen a large trend towards that through the industry.
What I think is happening is that MS as a place to work has been stagnent in the last few years, and MS needs good developers.
There is no opportunity to get rich anymore, there reputation stinks, they have been cutting back on developer perks, but still expect 60+hours a week.
Ballmer is right in that it's about the developers, but MS isn't handling it's transition from skyrocketed company to, a strong but steady market force very well. This is typical. Developers seem more like a commodity that can be swapped around by Accounts. Which is fine,if accountants are tempered with good upper management that backs the developers concerns.
The top management may be deluded and think MS got the great developers it did in the early 90's because it's a great place to work. Instead of a great place to get rich.
I have said this for years, MS will go to an existing OS and brand their GUI on it, or die. You can not turn out a good solid OS in 10 years of development, you also need 10 years of in the market maturity.
I was astounded when Apple did it. Man, that blew me away. It's a good move that will keep you from reinventing the wheel.
Ausus EEE? Vista and Microsoft are over. (Score:3, Interesting)
You have to be sleeping to have missed free software's 2007 surge and proof of concept. Dell, IBM and Asus all did well with it on "consumer" desktops. If the Asus EEE PC meets sales goals, there will be more EEEs out there than Macs. So far, the EEE has exceeded sales goals handily. You only need a few home runs like that to have GNU/Linux break into double didgit market share, which would also eclipse Vista. Microsoft has launched this firesale to prevent that but it's too little too late. Every ven
Re:This is aimed at power users... (Score:5, Insightful)
In fact, you could make a pretty solid argument that Microsoft's success with the XBox has severely undercut the PC market. Take out a large chunk of gamers who are no longer upgrading their PCs to play the latest game and you're left with a few enthusiasts and everyone else is running a computer that's "just good enough". Vista is completely unnecessary. Oh, and they did a good job with XP, honestly. Good enough that most people seemingly see no reason to switch. Even if it's given to them.
Re: (Score:2)
For gamers, the one BIG advantage consoles have is that "stuff just works." I don't have to worry about getting a new video card (or drivers), or any other upgrades (cpu/ram.) I think one of the biggest frustrations is playing P
Re: (Score:2)
So you didn't save as much, and good luck if you ever want to use wireless with that Ubuntu computer. Price isn't the only thing you should consider when buying an OS. Not saying you mad a bad choice or anything, but you used at least one bad point of information to make that decision, and for me I'd rather pay than s
Re: (Score:2)
Wireless Ubuntu Works (Score:5, Informative)
I am wireless with the Ubuntu computer. I didn't have to do anything. When I installed Ubuntu, I got the little wireless icon on my upper right hand corner, hit connect... to my wireless network, and it completely worked, just like the little wireless icon on my Windows XP does.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The caveat is, of course, that you need a wireless controller with Linux friendly drivers - thankfully, Intel "got it" a long time ago and I've not found a wireless chipset of theirs which wasn't ungeeki
Re: (Score:2)
Are you kidding me? Since at least Ubuntu 6.06 LTS, I have not had a problem with wireless, and this is not based on an experience with just one computer. Two desktops and a laptop with internal 802.11a/b/g have all worked fine. In fact, I am using the wireless on my laptop with Kubuntu 7.04 to post this comment.
While there may be a some wireless adapters which might still need NDIS Wrapper, the vast majority now have adequate
Re: (Score:2)
Taken together, Microsoft's actions of the last few weeks : decreasing the price of Vista, giving away Visual Studio to Students, publishing specifications, all point towards an effort to attract developers to their platform. Even the channel partnerships that I railed about earlier are structured to attract developers. Clearly, Microsoft knows something that we don't know, and, I think it is that Linux development is starting to reach a critical mass for th
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe I do. But I fail to see in the list of fiscal priorities, why an operating system of all things is something that I should pay that much money for. I mean, if Linux costs me a $1 to download, and Vista is $400 list, then, is Vista 400 times better than Linux? No, its not. It doesn't use 400 times less memory. It doesn't make my computer run 400 times faster. It doesn't make
Re: (Score:2)
I never said you should. Just don't lie about the cost to make your point.
I mean, if Linux costs me a $1 to download, and Vista is $400 list, then, is Vista 400 times better than Linux? It doesn't use 400 times less memory. It doesn't make my computer run 400 times faster. It doesn't make my computer have 400 times the features.
Again, you're lying about
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe it's not unique, but I would consider it to be rather rare for a family (outside of the Slashdot crowd) to have seven computers in their home.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, and what I said was it if IS a lot of money for a family, the heads of household probably aren't managing their money very well. In that case, choice of OS to install on the family computer should probably be a very low priority. Instead of playing with the computer, the HoH should be figuring out how to make their money situtation less volatile.
I have seven computers and that few hundred dollars starts to add up when you multiply it by the numb
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, man, you had me going right up until then.
Critical mass? (Score:2)
I agree that Linux is attractive for developers who want to build their own integrated solution from the ground up and have control at each level, plus many existing libraries that they can modify for their specific uses. Companies are starting to realize that they can't put all
Re: (Score:2)
There is a demographic factor going on as well. A lot of we formerly reliable Windows zealots are now in our 30s and 40s, and suddenly money that would be spent on graphics cards and Windows upgrades is now getting plowed into our over-priced houses and our children. It's like, I would have stayed up in line to get Vista Ultimate the day it came out, but instead, I bought diapers, soy milk and a thomas the tank engine train set for my son. Having jonesed for some sort of an upgrade to my PC, I went with Ubuntu instead, and its pretty satisfying.
I didn't realize, but this is true for me as well. I don't have the time or patience to deal with MSWindows installations for relatives anymore. Ubuntu may not be ready for my family (or maybe it is), but Mac OSX certainly is.
As a plus, a fresh Ubuntu installation for me is a lot less painless than the last time I installed WinXP.
Oh yeah (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Oh yeah (Score:5, Insightful)
Though the possibilities of what you can do on a computer are theoretically limitless, but in practice there's now a small set of functionality (web access, email, office type stuff, or media manipulation apps) for which 99% of people need computers for. Most of what we have is good enough. Over the past twenty years a lot of the advancement has been due to improvements in graphics, which led to directly obvious improvments in usability, and vice versa, but this has plateaued at what we have now. Nobody has come up with any convicing 3D GUI designs that have been demonstrated to be any better or more efficient than where we already are.
Even on the gaming front, consoles appear to be slowly but surely taking that role away from the PC. The endless cycle of nvidia-ATI upgrades is getting old, and I've got better things to spend my money on.
Advancement these days appears to be mostly in server side apps and web-distributed content, and it's as if we've gone full circle back to the days of the dumb terminal. If you're an average user, and your machine keeps working, why do you need to upgrade?
You don't, end of story.
Re: (Score:2)
That used to be more or less top notch...and with the modded bios on the VIVO-enabled x800 I had, it performed exactly like its more expensive counterpart. Compared to new stuff today, yes, it pales in comparison...but it was nearly unbeatable for 6 months after I bought it, and it wasn't until recently that I can't pla
Re: (Score:2)
still waiting (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Vista: Where we're going, we're not going to need to go anywhere today. Ooh, shiny!
Re: (Score:2, Redundant)
I am used to the primary argument against Linux is that ion order to get it to work well, you ahve to 'fiddle with it'. Now the answer supporting Vista is that if you want it to work well, fiddle with it. Adjust default setting, turn off Aero, customize Aero, wait for new printer drivers; which MAY be coming out.
Re:still waiting (Score:4, Informative)
Vista actually uses lots of memory that does not get reclaimed when apps need it. When I log in to a clean desktop, memory use is around 500-600mb, and that is real memory use, not caches. When I start using apps that require a lot of memory, data starts to be written to swap. As soon as you hit swap, you've already lost the performance game. In linux, when I start using lots of memory in my apps, the disk cache memory is reclaimed for the apps and I don't hit swap. Huge difference.
Why on earth were they surprised? (Score:5, Informative)
Didn't they learn this lesson with the Student/Teacher version of Office?
Duh
Re: (Score:2)
They were actually surprised to learn they were charging too much. Unbelievable.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Why on earth were they surprised? (Score:4, Insightful)
Hmmm.....Hey Microsoft! (Score:2)
Nothing to see here. Move along.
Re: (Score:2)
really, your going to put 150+ into your current computer, is the OS really the best place to put it? Add to that the possibility that it might fubar your current set up?
To entice people, MS needs to sell 1 disk for 50 buck
The math on this (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Not enough (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Who do you want to sue today? How about your own customers!
That makes sense since consumers are MS employees (Score:2, Interesting)
I still thank Microsoft should be paying people to help debug there software. In some ways they are smart getting people to pay to work for them.
True other third parties contribu
Woot, I need to become an an analyst (Score:2)
So What do I need to do to be an analyst? Get a degree in statistics? take some logic course? DO I need a masters?
I'm sure only qualified people would be an analyst~
Re: (Score:2)
That Microsoft would drop price?
That Microsoft would drop the price on non-oem Vista?
That Microsoft would drop the price of non-oem Vista by $70?
That Microsoft would drop the price of non-oem Vista by $70 in Febuary?
That Microsoft would drop the price of non-oem Vista by $70 on Febuary 28th?
Not puzzling at all (Score:3, Insightful)
And that's why it makes sense. Dropping the price will not affect Microsoft's revenue. Yet they'll sell a few extra copies. They're hoping to sell it to people who are otherwise upgrading with unlicensed copies. Plus they probably think it'll help their public image.
Of course they could have just made a better product in the first place and not dropped the price, but we'll leave that discussion to other threads.
hardware upgrades (Score:4, Informative)
What I think makes the brunt of those new sales is that people who have the money to shell out for what the salesman at best buy tells them to get, will also shell out for the newest thing, which in this case is vista in terms of OSs. I will personally feel fine using XP until Vista's issues are either resolved or it's put in the ground.
Comparison to Apple (Score:4, Interesting)
Apple(s and Oranges) (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Let's not forget MS and Apple are in different business.
an Apple / Dell comparison would be better.
Re: (Score:2)
Upgrade or repurpose? (Score:3, Insightful)
Did I mention I'm a hoarder?
Generational Computers (Score:2)
Each has a purpose and a place in my computer eco system. Each one was my main computer rig for a period of time, and each was tweaked until very stable. The oldest even saw use with my younger brother for a good time after I was on to my next computer.
Sometimes it is nice to pull out the old Dungeon Keeper or even Betrayal at Krondor and Doom I & II and remember the good times from the past. Gamep
from the article: (Score:2)
They are competing with themselves, and need to slash prices. Market force at work.
"surprised to find that the amount of revenue lost was more than made up for by an increase in the number of PC buyers willing to shell out for an upgrade."
you're kidding me, right? that's not un common. You can sell a newspaper for a dime and sell 100 of them, cut it to a nickel and you will sell 300 of them.(adjust number for inflation)
I mean, this is a known market f
Re: (Score:2)
True, as newspapers don't make money on subscriptions. If you give them out, however, you must sell at least 50% of your circulation numbers (or maybe 51%, I don't remember. Been a long time since I worked for one) you have to change what your tell advertisers what your official circulation is and thus affect ad revenue.
All of that said, I'm not sure why the price cut
Not odd at all (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
They Cut Prices (Score:2)
The only difference between this and Toshiba's price cuts on HD-DVD players shortly before they finally conceded defeat, is that Microsoft won't have to admit defeat for a long time, if ever, due to the lack of a real "format war" on the desktop.
YOU ARE A PIRATE! ... Please prove otherwise. (Score:3, Insightful)
Until that happens, I'll continue using software that doesn't require me to "prove my innocence," and no amount of pricing cutting will make me think differently.
Re:The whole idea of upgrading PCs??? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The whole idea of upgrading PCs??? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Ironically and comically, that applies to your post as well. Or should I say "apply's"?
Re:The whole idea of upgrading PCs??? (Score:4, Informative)
People still Ignored it with the low prices. I have a real retail copy matted and framed in my office as incredibly few people have ever seen one.
Re: Software Antiques (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
The price of a Vista upgrade is $100 for the basic version. The price of a new PC that probably runs faster than your current machine is $600. The falling cost of hardware makes the upgrade route very much less interesting.
The prices of the full versions of Vista has me mystified. The only people required to pay full price are people who put their own machines together in ways that does not qualify for an OEM copy and people who run Vista in a
Re: (Score:2)
I lost my ability to use PDF creator which is a negative for me.
It ran slower on my X2 4400 with an nVidia 6600 GT than XP did.
DX10 right now is a non-feature.
Outside of the super wiz bang neato cool UI are the benefits of Vista for the average user?
I know about the new graphics engine but that isn't much of a benefit to me. So what do I gain over XP that makes it worth the problems and the cost?
Security while always an issue hasn't been one for me. I don't use Outlook or IE and my machine
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I also bought a laptop with Vista (it wasn't as powerful as an XPS but I didn't run in to any perf issues), and as much as I tried to get the "classic" UI to behave like XP (or, more ideally, my beloved 2000), I couldn't. Pretty much all the classic UI switch does as far as I can tell is change what the widgets looks like. I lost patience with it after playing with it for a few hours a
Re: (Score:2)
Whoa there zippy, stop taking my words out of context. The OP was talking about his dislike of the UI, which hasn't changed much. But under the hood things certainly have changed [wikipedia.org] quite a bit.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Yet you tried to pass it off as nothing has changed. Tell me, what was so impressive about XP that you wanted to upgrade?
Sorry. I'm content to use the infinitely inferior XP for the two or three windows apps I still find myself running.
Hmm... just an MS hater? You liked XP enough to upgrade, what do you like more about Ubuntu that you'd rather go that route instead of staying with XP?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The side-grade to XP from 2000 was entirely due to gaming, and the fact that lots of games will refuse to install and/or run on 2000 for no adequately explored reason other than "it's not XP".
What I like about Kubuntu is that it doesn't get in my way. The GUI is simpler and more
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The other was a Microsoft presentation of Powershell. They invited some of us Unix p
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Should you have to do that for a new PC? No. But OEMs have a responsibility to make it work right!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
How can you then blame people for pirating software, when you show them that if they keep doing it, they'll get a 80% discount on legit copies?
Re: (Score:2)
i vaguely remember some talks about such price differences being shady/partially illegal, but i can't remember in what light did i read that and where.
Is it illegal? NOT A CHANCE. (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
i'm not saying that location, medium or other factors could not play a role in price amount, but price fixating on purpose...
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Price skimming (Score:2)
It's called 'skimming the market [wikipedia.org]', nothing new.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)