Virus Infection Hits UK's Ministry of Defense, Including Warships 290
Retrovirus writes with a link to a Register story which says that the UK's "Ministry of Defence confirmed today that it has suffered virus infections which have shut down 'a small number' of MoD systems, most notably including admin networks aboard Royal Navy warships."
B-5 (Score:5, Funny)
Re:B-5 (Score:5, Funny)
I'm shocked to find that Windows based computers are subject to virus infections! SHOCKED!
What's more shocking (Score:4, Funny)
Re:B-5 (Score:5, Insightful)
Admin system, not OPS. The ships still run fine, they just lost stuff like crew performance reviews. Quoting TFA: "purposes such as storekeeping, email and similar support functions." That said, the article notes that the loss of email for the crew was a significant blow to morale since that's how most of them kept in touch with their families. Anyone in the military knows how important mail call is.
Re:B-5 (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course - they would be crazy to use Windows for their operational systems [slashdot.org], right?
Re:B-5 (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:B-5 (Score:5, Funny)
Admiral: That's the 'Good news'? what the hell is the bad news?
Navy SysEngr: It's being delivered by ICBM...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
wwII Japanese troop strength (Score:4, Informative)
In WWII Japanese troop strength was determined by tracking logistics. Judging the amount of water requested delivered to islands allowed the allies to determine troop levels on those islands.
There are no non-critical systems in war time.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The QM stores are a critical item. Many, many years ago I was involved in a project deploying VAXes (11/725, I think) onto ships. The computers not only look after stock levels, they also say where stores are, that is which bin to look in. If your ship has just had a major malfunction or suffered a hit, finding the spares to effect a repair is a priority.
Re:B-5 (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes... everyone likes to trivialize the non-essential non-combat functions until suddenly there's no grog.
Switching to Windows (Score:5, Informative)
Wasn't it big news about a year ago that the UK Navy were switching to Windows?
Yeah, here it is:
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08%2F12%2F18%2F006226&from=rss [slashdot.org]
Slashdot article from December 18 2008
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Funny)
A year is roughly 29 days long now?
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:4, Informative)
Hah, no. The millennium started in January, 2001.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Not if you use ISO 8601:2004
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Informative)
Let me ask you a question: if someone was born on 01.01.0 how old would he/she get at the 01.01.2000?
There is no such person. There is no year zero.
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, but no year zero. In the Gregorian calendar, 31st December of 1 BC is followed by 1st January of 1 AD. Therefore the AD period reaches a hundred years old at the end of the year 100, not at the beginning of that year. Same for the millennia: the second millennium ended on the night of 31st December 2000.
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:4, Funny)
Ok. You didn't get it. Let me explayn...
woooosh!
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Funny)
Only leap years. The rest are 28 days long.
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe the Norton 30-day trial has expired.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I hear that depends on which ship you're serving on. Some of them have these crazy computer systems, and they can't work out what's wrong.
Re: (Score:2, Redundant)
December 18 2008 is last year but is not even a month ago :)
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
And when that topic came up on slashdot I questioned the wisdom running windows on military hardware for security reasons and was laughed at since people took they view that this is the military, they're not going to network the boxes, they have more sense, it's not like they'd be connected to the net! god no!
Well now I claim the right of "I told you so!"
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Funny)
Is that you Adama?
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Interesting)
FTA:
Since 6 Jan 09 the performance of the MOD IT systems in a number of areas was affected by a virus. Immediate action was taken to isolate the problem to stop the virus from spreading. This meant that some people were without regular IT access (i.e. email, internet). There have been no infections detected on any networks with sensitive information.
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Funny)
Too bad for the UK Defense department. It's just over the 7 day return policy for ordering goods over the internet, so they can't return Windows for a refund.
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
and the article doesn't tell whether this infection affected them as well.
Still, I hope this gives second thoughts to any people in charge
who considering to "spare money" by installing Windows on such sensitive systems...
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, there was another article about the rest of the Navy switching to Windows iirc.
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
I beg to disagree. A search of publicly available documents shows that NavyStar has Windows and DOS components. Fujitsu's ITSEC certification report (No. P230) [cesg.gov.uk], in particular, shows Windows XP, Windows XPe, and DOS clients. See diagram on page 10.
Also, the article doesn't say that the servers were hit. Only that the system was based on a server cabinet and cable-networked PCs. As I understand it, NavyStar is a hardware platform of ruggedized PC components.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Noting that a new season of Battlestar Galactica premieres today the guys that decided to run the Royal Navy on Windows will say that's not their fault: it's an attack of the Cylons! They have a far superior technology and no existing antivirus could defend the ships.
Ok, to be fair to the RN they're such an important target that an attacker would write a virus for any OS they run on, Linux, OSX, anything. However the network should have been protected. No USB drives, no connections with the outside, etc.
Yes
Re: (Score:3)
Ok, to be fair to the RN they're such an important target that an attacker would write a virus for any OS they run on, Linux, OSX, anything. However the network should have been protected. No USB drives, no connections with the outside, etc.
Once again, you need two things to be able to write a virus :
- resources
- a flaw that allows it to infect the PC and spread to others
There exist people with resources willing to make virus for such systems. That is true for any army in the world. That is why armies usually tend to be paranoiac about the flaws they could introduce in their systems. Spending billions and an army of hackers won't be able to create a flaw in a secure system. It is simply true that flaws are more common and less efficiently
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:4, Funny)
It is simply true that flaws are more common and less efficiently patched in Microsoft products than in any other.
Evidence ?
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, I know, it is a blog, not a reputed tech journalist, so you need a grain of salt. Well, here is the methodology
1. Install the OS as default-ly as possible. Scan it with nmap and Nessus during the installation. (for the chart, he ignored this) 2. At completion of installation, scan again. 3. Install relatively common listening services and scan again. 4. Install the latest 'major patch', and scan again. 5. Finally install all 'minor patches' published prior to Jan 1 2007, and scan again.
The chart [blogspot.com] is quite interesting. FreeBSD, as the popular wisdom says, shows 0 vulnerabilities. All Linux default installs show zero vulns as well. When some services are activated, they tend to show less vulnerabilities.
Re: (Score:2)
Oh, I know, it is a blog, not a reputed tech journalist, so you need a grain of salt
That is only the beginning of the problems:
* It's 2 years out of date.
* It's making some apples-to-oranges comparisons (eg: using XP Gold without similar era versions of Fedora/RH, etc)
* There are at least two outright lies in the table - neither of the Vista "vulnerabilities" are remotely exploitable, and for them to even be present the default configuration must be changed so the firewall is disabled. (Refer to the s [omninerd.com]
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
no ... it was almost 4 years ago ..
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/06/ams_goes_windows_for_warships/ [theregister.co.uk]
Re: (Score:2)
Ah, thanks for finding that
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure we discussed this story (maybe not that particular one) on slashdot years ago.
I remember commenting or at least reading the comments on it.
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:5, Insightful)
They mention an e-mail system, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were running Exchange. For some reason, people seem to have trouble realizing that IMAP does basically everything that Exchange does, but with complete compatibility and reduced risk.
Re: (Score:3)
Because God knows nobody at the Ministry of Defence ever needs to schedule a meeting with a bunch of people.
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:4, Insightful)
IMAP doesn't have a calendar, and Outlook's IMAP support is really terrible.
Don't get me wrong, I hope Exchange/Outlook dies out, but IMAP is not a drop in replacement, server side or client side.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
And given the virus outbreak the MOD only hires moron admins.
Servers should never be run by idiots. As crap like this happens every second because of it.
Re:Switching to Windows (Score:4, Interesting)
Sometimes, just sometimes, system admins are required to run things in spite of the fact that the systems are insecure. Typically, Sys Admins aren't the ones doing the system purchases or making the decisions on what systems to run. And sometimes, penny pinching tightwad beancounters make the decisions and those decisions don't include things like anti-virus, system backups and all the other things that would help mitigate against such problems.
Sometimes the idiots who you speak of aren't really idiots, just handcuffed by pointy haired bosses.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
That comment makes absolutely no sense. IMAP is a protocol. Exchange is a mail/groupware server software package. Exchange supports IMAP, as do many other mail/groupware server software packages.
Re: (Score:2)
You must be new here. I for one welcome our new inexperienced individual thinking AC overlords.
Time to switch? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Time to switch? (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
because it's a joke as in "ha ha". Something that isn't suppose to be taken seriously by either Linux or Windows fanatics.
What happened to *nix ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What happened to *nix ? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:What happened to *nix ? (Score:5, Informative)
Me too. However its the email system which went down. Sailors are pissed (I live in Portsmouth and there was a bit about it in the local newspaper). Navigation and command systems were not affected as they live on physically separate networks.
Re:What happened to *nix ? (Score:5, Funny)
Sailors are pissed
Aye... with the email down, we're downing the rum!
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Putting on my most Pedantic persona :
If you are pissed in Portsmouth then you have drunk too much alcohol, only in the Western Colonies does one refer to a state of aggravation as being pissed.
I can only deduce that you Sir must be an American interloper in our fair land
Now discarding Pedantic persona
Re:What happened to *nix ? (Score:5, Funny)
As insider I can confirm system was fully 24/7 reliability certified, even shielded for smooth operation under nuclear attack. But then 1-year-free AVG licence ended.
Re:What happened to *nix ? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
It's not. They have their own separate network. The systems in the story are mostly HR, food stock keeping etc.
Important information, but it's not going to automatically launch a nuke at Israel or Pakistan.
Appropriate enough (Score:5, Funny)
All your base are belong to "someone other than yourselves"
Re:Appropriate enough (Score:5, Funny)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base_are_belong_to_us [wikipedia.org]
Viral infection? (Score:2)
It would be much more newsworthy if it was a bacterial infection.
A warship-eating bacteria.
You could so do a Steven Seagal movie with that premise.
Re: (Score:2)
Like in TNG espisode #34 where an organism eats the hulls of the USS Enterprise and the IKS Pagh? Who knew they were still using windows in the 24th century!
Re: (Score:2)
The movie name is, surprisingly enough, "Virus".
Re: (Score:2)
I'll go one better - Steven Seagal versus Chuck Norris.
There. Dear MPAA, Make me that film and I'll start buying cinema tickets.
if a virus can do that... (Score:2)
Re:if a virus can do that... (Score:5, Funny)
As it was only the admin network effected, then not unless all that's required to start a world war is that someone spoofs an e-mail as such:
To: Rear Admiral Whoever
From: Vladmir Putin
Subject: lol u suck
im in ur macines stealing ur data
Schadenfreude (Score:5, Funny)
I'm not currently allowed to do security-cleared work in UK, because I've just spent several years living in that hotbed of communism and espionage, New Zealand. Pity the MoD don't take such a rigorous approach to basic IT competence.
Re:Schadenfreude (Score:5, Funny)
pfah (Score:5, Funny)
Of course they went to Windows: /var/log/messages"
Clicking Torpedo and then the enemy's battleship on a screen is much more efficient than typing
"attack --weapon torpedo --count 2 --coords 42394799879x3179478912"
and then waiting for the result in
"tail -f
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You jest but most of the old command systems did (and still do) use the command line. Trackerball input was done using a special key.
Re:pfah (Score:5, Funny)
Surely touching the torpedo and then touching the enemy's battleship is even easier than clicking? Even a kid can do it.
Re:pfah (Score:5, Funny)
It looks like 'attack' uses GNU-style command line switches. Do you know if the source code is available?
Sincerely,
Ministry of Defence.
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Re:pfah (Score:5, Funny)
Clicking Torpedo and then the enemy's battleship on a screen is much more efficient than typing /var/log/messages"
"attack --weapon torpedo --count 2 --coords 42394799879x3179478912"
and then waiting for the result in
"tail -f
More likely it was done using a wizard invoked as Start > Programs > Ministry of Defense > Utilities > Torpedo Enterprise Edition 1.37 > Torpedo Launch. MoD Power Users would, of course, just do Start > Run > TLaunch.EXE to open the graphical window before holding the mouse on the spin box to increment the coordinate numbers to the correct values, and then selecting File > Actions > Torpedo > Launch and clicking "Yes" on the "Are You Sure?" dialog boxes. SuperKeen Techsavy Power Users will shun the above methods and opt for something more Unix-like:
Windows Powershell
Copyright (C) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reservered.
$ C:\Documents and Settings\Midshipman R. Kelly>Get-WmiObject -Class Win32_PingStatus -Filter "Address='42394799879x3179478912'" -SubmarineName '*' | Select-Object -Property Address,ResponseTime,StatusCode
64 bytes from Russian_Sub: icmp_seq=0 ttl=64 time=109 ms
64 bytes from Russian_Sub: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=38 ms
64 bytes from Russian_Sub: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=0 ms
^C
$ C:\Documents and Settings\Midshipman R. Kelly>(Get-WmiObject -List -Foes . | Where-Object -FilterScript {$_.Name -eq "Russian_Sub"}).InvokeMethod("Torpedo",("attack","weapon torpedo",2,"42394799879","3179478912"))
The requested service has not started is not running.
More help is by typing NET HELPMSG 38000357699.
$ C:\Documents and Settings\Midshipman R. Kelly>Restart-Service -displayname "Ministry of Defense Torpedo Service"
Ministry of Defense Torpedo Service is starting.
$ C:\Documents and Settings\Midshipman R. Kelly>(Get-WmiObject -List -Foes . | Where-Object -FilterScript {$_.Name -eq "Russian_Sub"}).InvokeMethod("Torpedo",("attack","weapon torpedo",2,"42394799879","3179478912"))
System Error 1058 has occured.
The service cannot be started, either because it is disabled, it has no enabled devices associated with it, or you lack sufficient administrative rights.
$ C:\Documents and Settings\Midshipman R. Kelly>get-eventlog application -newest 10 | format-list | more
Mod +5 Worthy of Tears
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
One of your torpedoes is trying to launch.
Allow | Deny
One of your torpedoes is enabling a tracking mechanism.
Allow | Deny
One of your torpedoes is trying to blow a ship.
Allow | Deny
ah....but can point and click do this? (Score:2)
find /sea -iname '*enemy*' | xargs attack --weapon torpedo --count 2
Re: (Score:2)
Lightweight, that's still the Windows way - operating on individual targets, tut, tut, tut. This would require far too much from the Weapons Administrator.
Should be:
grep "enemy" ocean/* | killall
obligatory userfriendly link (Score:5, Funny)
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20081228 [userfriendly.org]
ITV news last night... (Score:5, Informative)
ITV News [itv.com] was stating it was also effecting 6 RAF admin bases as well and they outbreak has been running since well before Christmas. All of this hear-say as the MOD (rightly IMHO) are keeping alot of this info to themselves.
Also no signs of how the malware got into the systems, accidently or a deliverate 'attack'.
given the time to clear up and the large number of systems it's compromised it's a little worrying to the least.
Brave New World (Score:5, Funny)
If they'd watched BSG they'd have known better (Score:5, Funny)
Admiral Adama never would have let that happen on his ship.
Black Tot Day, 1970 (Score:5, Funny)
Well, its blindingly obvious that the Royal Navy is worth zilch and run by nincompoops and incompetents since July 31st 1970, 6 bells of the forenoon watch. That was when the last rum ration was issued.
So the move to use Microsoft Windows and the subsequent(and consequent) series of disasters associated with such an abysmal piece of software does not strike on as "odd" with the same rear-admirals (which probably carry the word "rear-" in front of their title in order to find their posteriors) who had risen up their ranks without their daily rum ration.
It should have been clear in 1970 that the Navy which ruled the waves for 200 years wouldn't take something like having their rum taken away lightly; and that most probably their best sailors and officers would turn away in disgust of such a move, leaving only the incompetent and spineless to run and ruin the Navy. And in recent times, leaving a software company from the USA to ruin the Navy. Perhaps they realised the case was hopeless and retired to a half-pay life of binge-drinking; at least they could have their rum on shore, to drown their shame in.
Such a sad state.
Re:Black Tot Day, 1970 (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
If life in the Navy consists of spending a lot of time on boats listening to the Pogues, why didn't they say so? I'm joining up!
I have just one thing to say: (Score:4, Funny)
:facepalm:
Re: (Score:2)
I suppose that's better than napalm.
deja vu (Score:3, Interesting)
Scurvy (Score:2, Funny)
Ever wish your computer was as secure as a battleship? Now it is.
Since the britons installed Windows, every sunday, late at night, pirates in the Irish sea have remoted their ships to a buccaneer's den on the Isle of Man.
Hardly surprising.. (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Is it just me? - or is it completely terrifying that someone in the marketing department of the MoD thought that that ad would inspire confidence in the safety of the UK's nuclear arsenal?
MOD PARENT UP!!! (Score:2)
Insightful, informative... whatever. Both are on the money.
Although... I must say - he sounds more like a just plain old non-OS related idiot.
That he-heh-heh giggle is a dead giveaway.
Nice. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
As Admiral Grace Hopper put it, (Score:2, Funny)
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships were built for. Go out and get infested."
(Sorry, Admiral Hopper. Just can't help...)
On 2nd thought - make all armies use windows (Score:4, Funny)
Don't think they asked the right question (Score:2)
The MoD insisted that no command or operational systems had been affected, though many of these are based on similar hardware.
Hardware?
Re:Virus? in such a critical environment? (Score:5, Funny)
Exactly. I'm surprise those computers got infected with Windows in the first place. Usually it takes a CD to spread that virus.
troll (Score:5, Insightful)
at least to show some respect to the man who passed away so recently