Navigating a Geek Marriage? 1146
JoeLinux writes "I am soon to marry my true love (a girl! yes! they do exist!). She is a literary geek, whereas I am a gaming/Linux geek. Being the RTFM-style geeks that we are, we have been reading up on marriage, making things work, etc. Unfortunately, all of the references seem to be based around an alpha-male jock and a submissive cheerleader-style wife. A lot of the references to incompatibility in the books don't apply to us (neglect due to interest in sports, etc.). What are some of the pitfalls and successes learned in the course of a more geek-oriented marriage?"
Perhaps you can ask your girl (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot of the references to incompatibility in the books don't apply to us (neglect due to interest in sports, etc.).
Sports is an example, not the only cause of neglect. If your girl is a literary geek, she can probably explain this concept to you. Ask her about it when you've finished a gaming or Linux debugging session which prevented you from installing the bookshelf that you promised her 2 weeks ago.
Re:Perhaps you can ask your girl (Score:5, Informative)
No I think what he is getting at not bookshelf, but self-absorbed.
Here is an example. My wife loves books above everything. Me I work on my computer all the time. On the weekends she is ready ALL THE TIME. Normally this would bother somebody. It did bother her family quite a bit. Me, I did not actually care at all.
So what was the compromise? I have a little desk in the living room with two notebooks that are joined and connected to my trading desk downstairs. Thus when she reads we are both in the same room. Granted not talking much to each other, but still together. That is I think what he is getting at.
Whenever we buy a house we always make sure that my office is big enough so that the couch, TV, and my computer array fits in. Thus she spends most of her time in my office. This time our house has the office in the bunker (seriously its a bunker) and its too damp and hence we put a little table in the living room.
Re:Perhaps you can ask your girl (Score:5, Funny)
Oops make that "On the weekends she is READING..." LOL...
Re:Perhaps you can ask your girl (Score:5, Funny)
Paging Dr. Freud. Dr.Freud to the reading room.
What does it say about me that I actually read "reading" instead of "ready"? Can't be too good.
Re:Perhaps you can ask your girl (Score:5, Funny)
Is your wife a goer, eh? Know whatahmean, know whatahmean, nudge nudge, know whatahmean, say no more? ;)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I have a geek friend, she's more of a punk freak geek but still, geeky, and she and her WoW addict man have got the same basic issues as your average non-geek couple. I suspect those books you are reading are equally applicable just substitute your relevant geek interests and geek social networks and it should all be much the same (assuming the books are not just pop psychology twaddle).
Re:Perhaps you can ask your girl (Score:5, Interesting)
I was going to make this same comment. When you read those books pretend that the word "sports" says "favourite hobby." Even if you have the same hobby as your wife, if you're doing it alone all the time it will only harm your marriage.
My ex-wife used to come home and play the nintendo ds all night. It wasn't sports, but it was her hobby. The time we could have spent together talking and working on our relationship was spent with her face and attention glued firmly to something else.
The judge signs our divorce papers today at noon. Out of spite, I kept the DS even though she got to keep all my money and can just go buy her own.
My advice:
*The 5 love languages is a great book for new marriages. You'll learn a lot about your spouse. It will take an honest effort to put what you learn to good use, but it can work wonders.
*If either of you even think about the Fireproof movie and doing the "love dare," just don't. "sports jocks" and "cheerleaders" go for that, but all the nerds I know who's spouses tried it saw right through it and resented them using a manual...
*Whatever you both like doing together, do it often. Make it an important time for the two of you to spend together.
*Make friends with other married couples. Go out together. Enjoy being with your spouse and your friends.
Intriguing (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3)
When ALL else fails, RTFM!
(Besides, your getting married
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Forget the books (Score:5, Insightful)
Intelligent people do not need the kind of rubberstamp advice you find in self-help books. As long you remain honest, open and calm, you are very well off. Not doing stupid thing like playing WoW (ATTN! compare to watching football with you buddies and sipping beer) through your anniversary helps, too.
Re:Forget the books (Score:4, Insightful)
...unless raiding together IS what the two of them like to do for their anniversary :P
Honestly: be honest, and stick together as a team (Score:5, Insightful)
Intelligent people do not need the kind of rubberstamp advice you find in self-help books. As long you remain honest, open and calm, you are very well off. Not doing stupid thing like playing WoW (ATTN! compare to watching football with you buddies and sipping beer) through your anniversary helps, too.
I can't second this enough. In the 4.5 years I've been married, the ONLY time we ever ran into any real trouble was when I tried to "manage" information. The excuse you'll typically tell yourself if tempted to do this is that it's to "spare her feelings", "you couldn't cope with it then", or "spare us an unnecessary fight". Those are excuses...the real reason is you don't want to deal with her reaction and the fallout. Don't give in to that temptation. Be honest, and demand honesty from your partner. That, and a good dose of compatabiltiy and love, will take you through just about anything).
The other underlying principle I'd add is: take the attitude that you're a team, and its you against the world--not necessarily in a combative sense, but in a "we stick together" and an economic (perhaps competative) sense. If you do these two things, you'll do well, and weather just about any storm.
There are other obvious guidelines, like not tearing each other down to your friends (even joking about the ball-and-chain will propogate memes that undermine what you have, so don't do it), not engaging in activity that can result in relationship-destroying behavior that you'll regret--like drunken "boy's nights out" in nightclubs or pick-up joints, or my personal favorite: these idiotic bachelor parties/stag dos that people go on right before they tie the knot (talk about laying the groundwork for a divorce before you're even married) ... but these are all common sense things that are directly derived from the two basic principles above: be absolutely honest with each other even when (or more precisely, especially when) it is difficult, and stick together as a team against the inevitable external pressures that the rest of the world will exert (in whatever form it takes, be it economic, cultural, external tempation, vicious inlaws, jealous exes, or whatever).
Re:Honestly: be honest, and stick together as a te (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd disagree with you on those bachelor parties, but then again, only very few people have such a relentless grip on their jealousy as me and my wife do.
I will agree with the honesty, though. You made a good point: Demand it of your partner. In fact, you might have to TEACH it to her in the first place. I married a geek girl, not the cheerleader-type and she still had to be taught that yes, it is okay to tell me the truth, no it will not result in a fight and yes, I do want to hear her opinion.
My wife has had to deal with a mother who thought she had to be like her in order to be an acceptable child. You can imagine how puberty impacted on that relationship, though, so this situation might not necessarily apply to other women. Do not forget, though, that the stereotypes of a beer drinking, football addicted husband and the constantly frustrated and nagging wife come from somewhere. They are so prevalent in our media that, it seems, a lot of girls think that's the way it's supposed to work. Some of them have to literally be retaught.
Re:Honestly: be honest, and stick together as a te (Score:5, Funny)
Intelligent people do not need the kind of rubberstamp advice you find in self-help books. As long you remain honest, open and calm, you are very well off. Not doing stupid thing like playing WoW (ATTN! compare to watching football with you buddies and sipping beer) through your anniversary helps, too.
I can't second this enough. In the 4.5 years I've been married, the ONLY time we ever ran into any real trouble was when I tried to "manage" information. The excuse you'll typically tell yourself if tempted to do this is that it's to "spare her feelings", "you couldn't cope with it then", or "spare us an unnecessary fight". Those are excuses...the real reason is you don't want to deal with her reaction and the fallout. Don't give in to that temptation. Be honest, and demand honesty from your partner. That, and a good dose of compatabiltiy and love, will take you through just about anything).
What's so bad about not wanting to deal with someone's reaction? I'm sure they don't tell you the sex sucked right after you're done ... just as you probably don't tell them it's the arse that makes them look fat not the jeans.
Small lies, it's what holds relationships together.
Re:Honestly: be honest, and stick together as a te (Score:4, Insightful)
White lies are what stupid people tell because they can't figure out how to tell truth gently.
Do you love that (really ugly fucking sweater) I gave you? Not really, grandmother, but I love you!
What do you think of (outfit that accentuates every single flaw of a person's figure)? You know I love the way you look, but this outfit doesn't really seem to suit your look.
At work they made me so mad I (did something really childish in response to a stupid coworker) - what do you think? It's great that you stand up for yourself - you always have a plan. What is your plan for handling the blowback if any of those idiots get upset?
All of those are honest but they are said in a way that is kind and speaks to the core issue. Allowing someone to look like a fool when they were counting on you for honesty is incredibly cruel.
Re:Honestly: be honest, and stick together as a te (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sure they don't tell you the sex sucked right after you're done ... just as you probably don't tell them it's the arse that makes them look fat not the jeans.
While I agree there can be a time and a place for the honesty. Nothing has improved my sex life with my wife more than being honest when it's boring, bad, or good. It's how you learn what the other person likes. If you're not honest when it's crap, you keep getting the same crap sex over and over. (At least until you get no sex)
I concur, but I sure don't like such a slap in the face as having an orgasm and then hearing "You know honey, that really sucked. I hope you do better next time"
Mod: +6 (Score:4, Insightful)
Very, very good advice.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with the last paragraph, provided the first paragraph is properly observed: if you have a history of open honesty (and mutual respect) then there are no hard barriers on behaviour in public - you will both know intuitively what is unacceptable/hurtful/undermining behaviour. Saying that, it's vital to have that well-established foundation of trust and respect before relaxing the rules.
I would add one important piece of advice though: Remember That You Will Both Screw Up. In any close relationship, you will inevitably end up hurting one another from time to time; sometimes in everyday little ways, sometimes in almighty one-off fuck-ups. Patience and forgiveness from both parties are the only medicine for such ills, and when applied liberally and sincerely, the relationship will often be stronger after the fuck-up than before.
Re:Forget the books (Score:5, Insightful)
Being married (yes I am!) falls in the same category as having friends, being a manager...etc - they are relations that you have, not methods that you apply. That's where all the books have it wrong suggestion that there are techniques to apply instead of being authentic.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Intelligent people do not need the kind of rubberstamp advice you find in self-help books.
I'd be very careful with that advice. Intelligence does not correlate with knowing how to navigate relationship issues, personal issues and building a life together. Why do you think there's a separate roll for wisdom and for intelligence?
Warning: that last sentence is a joke. Please do not take it literally. Instead, focus on the fact that even intelligent people can learn from others.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Intelligent people realize they don't know everything, and are willing to seek advice from a variety of sources. Which they'll then evaluate.
Re:Forget the books (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree with the parent here. Just like anything else in life, you can never improve too much. To that end, why should it be bad to seek wisdom/advice from books, or spiritual advice, or therapists/counselors, or family, or other married friends, etc etc.
That's not to say that one should obsess on trying to be "perfect" (that will never happen), but there is nothing wrong with working toward a goal of being the best you can be. Just like your own life, a marriage is like a shared life. You both exist on your own, as your own people, with your own interests and personalities. At the same time, you have this shared life that must be maintained in the same manner as your own, individual life. In short, don't ever stop growing!
If you're not growing, you're dying.
Re:Forget the books (Score:5, Interesting)
I couldn't disagree with this more. My wife and I are both intelligent, sensitive, caring, dedicated people. But after being married for 5 years, we were seriously ready to throw in the towel if something didn't change. I'd share with people occasionally that we were having some trouble, and people would ask what it was about; my response was, "Honestly, we don't really know. If we understood what the problem was, it wouldn't be happening."
By a random chance (aka God's intervention), we were put onto the work of a guy named John Gottman. John Gottman actually did research on all kinds of couples. He'd wire them up with electrodes to measure their sweat and heart rates, and record their conversations. They even had an apartment rigged up where people would live for 2 days, and record their interactions. He then correlated what he saw with with people's marital satisfaction rating, and with the success of their marriage down the road. He got good enough that after listening to a 15-minute conversation about a hot-spot in their marriage, he could predict with 95% accuracy whether a couple would be divorced in 5 years' time.
We picked up his books, and a lot of what he described I saw in our marriage. Suddenly things aren't so mysterious anymore. We're definitely not out of the woods yet; 5 years of pain and bad habits don't just disappear. But now at least I feel like I have an idea what's going wrong, and even better, I have an idea of what "going right" looks like; and the "going right" is backed by real research, not just "This is my theory". I'd definitely recommend his books to anyone who ever wants to have a long-term relationship, even if it's pretty good right now.
Recommended books:
Re:Forget the books (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Forget the books (Score:5, Funny)
Set up a home bugzilla server. Every complain she has she can log into bugzilla, from household repairs to you forgetting the anniversary.
Re:Forget the books (Score:5, Funny)
"Please wear respectable clothes sometimes" -> Resolution: WONTFIX
"I can't figure out that Linux crap, get Windows!" -> Resolution: WORKSFORME
It's the perfect tool!
"I want a divorce!" -> Reassign bug to wife@localhost
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
wrong kind of books (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't read books to make your marriage work. Don't ask strangers on slashdot like geeks were some sort of alien race. Get advice from people you know who are already married, parents, relatives -- people you know and trust. And then, relax, ignore it all, as the biggest thing is "different strokes for different folks"/"everyone has to learn for themselves".
Nows not the time to be logical (Score:5, Informative)
Small piece of advice.
We geeks find it hard to "get in touch with our emotional side" sometimes...
Concentrate on enjoying each other's company. Enjoy being with each other. Stop trying to analyse the hell out of it and just ENJOY it :)
Re:Nows not the time to be logical (Score:4, Interesting)
Small piece of advice.
We geeks find it hard to "get in touch with our emotional side" sometimes...
Oh my...
The "alpha-male jocks" mentioned in TFA aren't stupid, they're socially so successful because of their high social/emotional intelligence.
(Some) women may think that what they want in a man is someone who is 'in touch with his emotional side', essentially a girly-man, but in reality a woman with a penis isn't any more attractive to women than it is to men.
You have to be someone she can look up to. In this day and age this doesn't have to mean huge amounts of muscle bulk. She might look up to you for your leet skillz, your artistic prowess or your meticulously cultivated good manners, whatever, but if that element is missing, but being all touchy-feely is not a plus, but something that has to be compensated for.
This also explains why highly successful women so often end up single, or go through divorce after divorce. The selection of men they can look up to is much smaller, and in that segment they have to compete with not very successful but seriously good looking girls.
Re:Nows not the time to be logical (Score:4, Interesting)
(Some) women may think that what they want in a man is someone who is 'in touch with his emotional side', essentially a girly-man, but in reality a woman with a penis isn't any more attractive to women than it is to men.
You have to be someone she can look up to. In this day and age this doesn't have to mean huge amounts of muscle bulk. She might look up to you for your leet skillz, your artistic prowess or your meticulously cultivated good manners, whatever, but if that element is missing, but being all touchy-feely is not a plus, but something that has to be compensated for.
This also explains why highly successful women so often end up single, or go through divorce after divorce. The selection of men they can look up to is much smaller, and in that segment they have to compete with not very successful but seriously good looking girls.
This poster is on to something. I teach a class for engaged and newlywed couples at my church. The poster is, perhaps unknowingly, articulating the biblical instructions for husbands and wives. Wives are to respect their husbands. If he is not a muscular jock (which is not a great reason for respect), she should find reason to respect him (his intelligence, kindness, love for others, character, work ethic, etc.). Husbands are instructed to love their wives sacrificially. The Apostle Paul wrote that a husband's love should be like that of Jesus Christ, who died for His bride (the church, who doesn't deserve His love).
Advice for the original poster: love your wife sacrificially, even when she doesn't deserve it. Become wife-centered rather than self-centered, focusing on her needs. If you do that, your wife will respect you. Marital harmony will ensue.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Wait, what? Christ died for the church? I sincerely hope you're just trolling... or being sarcastic or whatever.
The christian ideas about marriage are sick to the core and should never be applied without liberal amounts of interpretation. Fact is, the christian interpretation of the bible is very heartless and uncaring, no matter the words they spout.
Love your wife sacrificially, even when she DOES NOT deserve it? I know that christians tend to sound like crackpots, but how in the seven levels of hell do yo
Re:Nows not the time to be logical (Score:5, Interesting)
Wait, what? Christ died for the church? I sincerely hope you're just trolling... or being sarcastic or whatever.
Huh? Ephesians 5:25-28: "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her..."
The christian ideas about marriage are sick to the core and should never be applied without liberal amounts of interpretation.
Huh? "Christian ideas about marriage" like, "Husbands, love your wives?" Wow. Nasty stuff.
Fact is, the christian interpretation of the bible is very heartless and uncaring, no matter the words they spout.
Huh? "Love your neighbor as yourself." Oh, the cruelty. Dude, are you serious, or are you just spewing anti-Christian hate?
Love your wife sacrificially, even when she DOES NOT deserve it? I know that christians tend to sound like crackpots, but how in the seven levels of hell do you expect this to work?
Ah! A great question! The answer is not that difficult. Jesus Christ, the eternal God who became a Man, died in my place and suffered the just penalty for my sin---and I don't deserve it! Because Jesus Christ is able to forgive me when I don't deserve it, I am able to forgive my wife of 15+ years, regardless of whether she deserves my love. I forgive as I have been forgiven.
Do you really think your it-girl wife will respect you for lying at her feet whimpering for attention like a dog, never saying a word while she throws your money out the window? This is the stuff sitcom-stereotypes are made of and you want to tell us this somehow works?
No, I don't think a groveling, whimpering man would be respected (and I do not grovel or whimper), nor did I suggest that the OP become such a man. What I told him to do was to respond in love and kindness when his wife is not acting loving. Oh, it's far easier to just respond in kind, but to respond with kindness? That's tough, but without it a marriage is doomed.
Marital harmony will ensue... It isn't harmony, when half of the involved people have to completely bend over backwards for the other in the hopes that this person will take pity on them for it...
It is not in hopes of receiving pity. It is out of love for my wife that I bend over backwards for her. If she needed my heart for a transplant, I would gladly give it to her. I love her. That's not an emotional feeling. It's an action.
Man, you are a seriously fucked up individual...
Yes, but not for the reason(s) you cited. As broken and fractured as I am, God still became a man and still offered Himself as a substitute for me, and still bore my sins in His body on the cross. That's love.
Re:Nows not the time to be logical (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Nows not the time to be logical (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Nows not the time to be logical (Score:5, Funny)
And please, don't be someone your wife looks up to-- be someone she's proud of :)
My wife is 5'3... she has to look up at me.
I guess you've never heard of ladyboys then! (Score:3, Insightful)
"but in reality a woman with a penis isn't any more attractive to women than it is to men"
You should visit bangkok sometime! :o)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Geekiness is irrelevant. (Score:5, Insightful)
Making a marriage work requires three things:
Communication, communication and communication.
Learn how to talk, how to fight, and how to consider the other person, and you'll be fine. Don't try to own your partner and let him/her do things with other people that you can't reasonably do together. Don't be afraid to show your feelings, and talk about little issues before they become big issues. Compromises are inevitable, so don't think of these are a failure on either part.
The single biggest thing that is needed to make a marriage work is simply work. You can't expect a relationship to last without maintenance. Make sure to have time for each other when times are rough, and you'll be fine.
And ultimately, if things eventually stop working, divorce is not really a failure. It's simply an option to be considered if the relationship is hurting either or both parties.
Re:Geekiness is irrelevant. (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't get married at all, living in sin is much more fun!
But if you must:
1) When problems arise: argue, find a compromise, make up (that is the bit which involves lots of sex if you are lucky!). Couples that don't argue never last, all that suppressed/hidden resent eventually finds its way to the surface...
2) Stop reading about how to make marriage work
3) Stop asking questions about how to make marriage work on /.
Re:Geekiness is irrelevant. (Score:5, Insightful)
Define argue.
My wife and I have lived together for over six years now and as far as I know, we never truly argued.
This is something I hear very often. Couples who don't argue don't last. Well, crap, we're doomed. Why is it good advice to have an outlet for suppressed resent? Why not advise to talk it out (as in discussing it) BEFORE it cann even become suppressed? Why do you have to resent your partner in the first place?
Us, we don't do resentment. We just don't see the need.
Geek Marriage Here (Score:5, Interesting)
I am an engineer (ME), my wife is an engineer (EE).
We have been married for 15 years now and things are good.
1) I dated non engineers and let me tell you those relationships were more "active" in every sense of the word. But you actually tire of it quite quickly because you are constantly trying to figure things out.
2) The relationship becomes pretty constant since both you are pretty constant people. That is a good thing, but as my wife says NEVER take it for granted. Appreciate each and every day.
3) Be there for each other. I seriously mean this one. Be there for the other person through it all. EVEN if your logic says that the other person is wrong.
4) Support the other person. My wife is a director level manager and I have worked for her. Here in Europe some look at that as being a "wuss". After meeting me people quickly realize I am not a wuss, but there is a stigma associated with it. Though times are changing...
Rules of seeking relationship advice (Score:5, Insightful)
The first rule of seeking relationship advice on Slashdot:
1. Do not seek relationship advice on Slashdot.
Geek relationships aren't that different (Score:5, Informative)
Books (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't live by books, live by your brain. Books can help provide inspiration but you're not stupid... your brain knows if/when there's something wrong and how to fix it. People normally run off and cry to their friends in order to be told what they already knew. You know this. You know if the marriage is working or not. You know if you want to / need to work at it or not. To be honest, a marriage you need to "work at" in any way probably wasn't started on the best footing ("I don't really love you any more, darling, but let's work at it"? It's almost like saying "I don't find you sexually attractive any more but let's keep trying and see if I can keep it up" - Oh, and marriages based on sex aren't really marriages).
Ignore therapists, books, courses, "relationship counselling" (Yeurk!), all the other nonsense... live your lives together and be happy for as long as you both can and, if you can't, see what can be done to fix it. Sometimes that means divorce is actually the best way to find happiness for you both... so be it.
"I'm doing this because I read it in a book" comes nowhere near "I'm doing this because I want to make you happy".
Now run off and enjoy married life with your geek girl, you lucky sod.
Marriage kernel 0.01, suitable for hackers only (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no stock "off the shelf" marriage; every marriage is self-built, like Linux kernel 0.01.
You must learn to modify the source to fix problems that come up. There is no manual, and although there is a large user community, all of them have different systems, and consequently may give you bad advice. At least you have a co-author to help you.
Here is one piece of advice. Neither of you should play timesink online games, such as MMOs, unless you do it together or set clear boundaries about the times when you will play. Otherwise you or your wife will use those games to escape the marriage when it becomes difficult, and avoiding problems will make them worse.
Too much analyzing, too little feeling real. (Score:5, Interesting)
As a geek couple, I can say after 12 + years there are certain real pitfalls.
This may vary for you, but here's a few key items:
Your intellect can be very clever at making up lies, hiding what you really feel, and it basically just gets in the way. This hiding and dissociation from your feelings can take different forms. If you're the kind of guy who tries to be nice and tries to be a good partner, then you may find that you hide your natural anger and hide your resentments. Eventually these will bite you hard. If on the other hand you or your partner are basically quite selfish, lack empathy, and lack a basic goodness, then she or you can do the most outrageously selfish things but rationalize them away using your clever intellect. (I know one woman who would cry "sexist" if you said she was behaving badly, on the basis that had she been a man, you'd have complemented him for being "strong" (some people are educated beyond their intelligence)).
So feeling is very important. But what's also important, and this is beyond therapy now... what is also becoming more important for modern couples is that, once you both accept each other as equals (you're not stereotypical gender roles from the 50s), once you accept each other as equals, doesn't mean you are the same. You still have to be a man and she still has to be a woman, otherwise there is no difference between you, and there is no polarity of attraction, and sex and romance will disappear completely. See David Deida's books for a challenging and difficult slap in the face on this subject. Your woman may often act crazy--she is testing you and she wants to feel your masculine ability to be a solidly dependable rock who can stand there and still love her. Once she knows she can trust you to be a rock, she can relax into her feminine side and blossom and be sexy. And this little drama will repeat itself over and over. If you don't want that, get a best friend and forget about romantic partners.
Re:Too much analyzing, too little feeling real. (Score:5, Interesting)
As a half of a geek couple just entering into our fourth year, I found myself really nodding along while reading your third paragraph. By all means be nice and be a good partner, but don't forget to tell your SO what he/she needs to do in order to be nice and a good partner to you. Otherwise you may end up harboring resentments because you think your partner isn't putting as much effort into being nice as you are.
The last paragraph, I didn't care so much for: one of the things that brought us together was our inability to play social games (like "testing your husband"). Takes all kinds I guess, but treating the relationship as a game is not something you necessarily have to put up with. YMMV.
It's not that different (Score:5, Insightful)
Geek marriage is not that different to any other marriage. Three pointers:
In geek terms (Score:5, Insightful)
Marriage is like a static group in any RPG. The same basic facts apply.
1. You need goals to achieve anything. You need to achieve things to be happy. If one or more of your group is unhappy, the result will inevitably be dissolution of the group. Set goals early, set them often.
2. Whenever undertaking any task it is important to understand each group member's role. Though not strictly necessary, it is good to have a leadership position to orchestrate any support roles. This position may be shifted around the group based on whatever the scenario requires.
3. Eventually you will reach conflict, it's inevitable. Practice care in participating in conflicts. Attempt to understand all party's grievances and complaints and effect a useful resolution. Submit the proposed resolution to the group and hope for a diplomatic reception.
4. Keep the channels of communication open. Be sure all group members understand and approve of any actions prior to taking them. Nobody wants a Leeroy Jenkins in their group!
5. When you wish for your group to grow, the most important prerequisite is always preparation.
6. As your group grows in numbers, avoid favoritism. All members should be treated with respect and given the assistance they need to become fully useful participants.
7. Members of your group are unlikely to be so exclusively! They may still have close ties to the group or groups that nurtured them. Be sure to respect those ties and even assist in maintaining them.
8. That said, members of the group must understand their priorities. Most successful groups have prioritized with their own goals in mind.
9. Finally, you are not the group. And the group is not you. Sometimes you must focus on your own goals. Always take time to solo and be understanding of the need of others to do the same.
Those are just a few tips on successful grouping in World of Wedcraft. Good luck!
Geek-oriented marriage? (Score:3, Insightful)
Dude, how about a marriage-oriented marriage instead? You're not entering some club, you know.
Honesty is the key. A lot of people will disagree with me there, but if you can't be honest to your effing partner, with whom can you ever be honest then?
When I asked my first girl out, who happens to be my wife now, I told her my views on life and how I wanted and needed a relationship to be (both sexually and not) from the beginning. She happened to agree with what I said. I was honest and she was honest. That's why we've been married for almost four and a half years now and have been together for over seven.
No matter if one of the people involved tends toward submissive or dominant, the important part is that the relationship is built on being equal partners. Equal at least in the right to be happy and get from the relationship what they need. But to make each other happy, one must know what the other needs and what they have trouble dealing with.
I don't know how people can expect to live together for the rest of their lives, ideally, when they don't dare bring up wishes and dreams, fears and basic needs for fear of losing the other. How can people believe that someone whom you're afraid to tell your most important secrets, the things that are such a big part of you, would make a good partner?
The geekyness... what the heck does it matter? Whether you like being called a geek or not, the fact remains that we all have hobbies and interests. Being a geek is merely a label for how widely spread your hobby is (gaming retains its geeky status only through nostalgic means). Can you accept her hobbies? Can she accept yours? If not, you're going to have trouble that has nothing to do with geekyness anyway.
Rating (Score:4, Informative)
Name her breasts Han and Chewie.
Tell her that everytime you put on your Wedding Ring you hear the voice of Sauron calling you to do evil.
Inform her that her feet are as cute as a hobbits.
When times are rough tell her that you wish you took the blue pill.
Remind her that you are a true geek by not having sex with her unless she accepts money first.
Tell her you hope you both have a kid like Jake Lloyd one day.
After a 16 year relationship (1 child), my advice (Score:5, Interesting)
I've had (... still have ... in a way such relationships never die) a 16 year relationship with a woman. We have one daughter, 11 years old. My advice on marrige is quite simple: Don't marry. Or marry with a 2-inch thick marriage contract. The simple fact that either of the SOs can walk away, with (nearly) no legal commitments holding them back contributes greatly to respecting each other and acknowledging each others sacrafices that where done for a relationship. And on this aspect of issues i'd like to quote this:
"People who are intensly in Love often forget that for it to last you need to actively maintain it. Emotionally and in your attitude towards your significant other."
Every single day. Don't get me wrong: You can marry, if it is for outside reasons. Maybe you have to marry for tax reasons or because you live in a society where only married couples are accepted. Maybe you or your SO is a federal employee and will have to move to a different state whenever superiors say so and there only are exemptions for married couples. However, what you should do - both of you, at the same time and in the same intensity - is treat each other as if you weren't married. Every day. That's easiest to ensure if you simply don't marry or do so with a thick contract that seals details.
Me and her, we've each had our share of affairs on the side lately and we actually console each other when things get rough or someone of us is lovesick about it. However, we have never lost our respect for one another. I went through a solid stretch of of near flat-out neglegt by her for years, and simply the fact that I knew I could walk out of the door at any time had me stick with her and my responsibilies towards our daughter. If you marry, it should be under circumstances under which you both feel comfortable with your self and are sure that you can give what the other expects of you and what is required to make the others life better than if they were alone.
And if you, after all this advice, *do* marry, *don't* spend huge amounts of money on the wedding. Marry, maybe invite your best friends and families to a dinner or party or something, but don't go into huge dept just for a wedding. The positive effect (bragging rights, etc.) wears of quickly and if that's all your doing it for it's pointless to do anyway. And you get the best marriage effect ('My wife' / 'my husband') anyways.
Congratulations on finding the love of your life and my best wishes to both of you!
My 2 Euros.
No differerent (Score:4, Funny)
So called "geeks" are no different to anyone else. So like anyone else your marriage will be a success if:
1) Your wife has no other man but yourself
2) Your wife should not encourage any other man to make love to her, or kiss or caress her
3) Your wife should remember to kiss and caress you, to honour and obey you and obey your every whim and fancy seven days a week and twice on sundays
4) Your wife should honour your name so that all other women will honour it also
5) Your wife should no provoke you to anger
6) Your wife should not search your pockets or night or annoy you with her hearsays
7) If you are walking in the street with another woman your wife should not shout at you in the street but wait intelligently until you get home where the matter can be dealt with decently.
8) Your wife should neither drink nor smoke
9) Your wife should not commit adultery since if she does she risks forcing you to murder her
10) Your wife should not covet her neighbours dress, nor her shoes, nor her bureau, nor her bed nor her hat nor anything which is hers. Your wife should not call your attention to anything which may be for sale in any stores since you will provide her with everything she needs for her daily purpose.
Calendar for reminders (Score:3, Informative)
It goes without saying... (Score:3, Insightful)
No crying.
No getting in touch with your feminine side.
The man's job (geek or otherwise) is the three F's.
Fixing
Freighting
Frickin
The man makes the complex political decisions about whether or not the nation should deploy cruise missiles, bomb anything from orbit, or bail out the banks.
The woman gets to decide what you spend the money on, where you live, how many children to have, where they will be educated, where to go on holiday and anything else not included in the previous sentence.
The hard part:
When the woman makes a remark about something that upsets her you must always resist the temptation to offer a solution. Sympathise.
But most important of all
Be excellent to each other.
alternative lifestyle (Score:3, Interesting)
After 19 Years... (Score:3, Insightful)
Be considerate.
Shut up and listen when she wants to talk.
Respect her opinion.
She's smarter than you are, get over it.
It's more important to be friends than lovers (sex is fun, but no foundation for a marriage).
Give her the remote before you fall asleep.
If she prefers Windows (or a Mac or a different Linux distro), let it go.
Very few things are important enough to argue with your spouse about.
Money is the biggest marital stressor, to avoid this, live well within your means.
Settle disagreements quickly.
Even geeky girls like tasteful jewelry.
Make time to take her out on a date at least once a week.
Don't be an insensitive clod.
If you need a book, you're not ready (Score:5, Insightful)
Obviously how you approach it depends on the country you live in and the rules, laws and expectations that come from the culture and families you are both marrying into.
The problem with geeky types is that they ofter think there are/should-be rules or tried and tested techniques for doing things. When dealing with other people (apart from the obivousl ones to do with respect and consideration - both ways) there aren't.
For a start, what are your plans for having children? - have you discussed it. How much are your / her family going to be involved? Who's going to give up or continue working? What will you / she do if the partner has an affair - are either of you the jealous type. Don't forget, that people change after marriage (though some, who should: don't). Is the motivation to be married, or to be with the other person (if the latter, why marry at all?). Maybe when you have both sat down and had a full and frank discussion about these, and other topics you will be ready to decide whether ot not to marry.
Finally, remember that when women say "commitment", it frequently means "sacrifice". What are you prepared to give up?
My Grandfather's Advice (Score:5, Insightful)
At my grandparents' 65th wedding anniversary, my grandfather was asked for the secret to his long marriage. He said, "In any domestic dispute, if it turns out you are right, apologize at once."
Re:My Grandfather's Advice (Score:5, Interesting)
What, your grandfather read Robert Heinlein?
"In a family argument, if it turns out you are right--apologize at once!"
Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1973
20 years of asking what works: (Score:5, Informative)
Take the Advice I Ignored - Twice (Score:5, Insightful)
DON'T DO IT
Oh geez! It's only hard when women make it hard (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's the deal. It doesn't matter if you're alpha-male-jock or whatever other type. What matters is how well you accept one another and how you deal with problems together. Most of the time, it is the woman that finds the man intolerable and not the other way around. (Yeah, there are exceptions of course) Usually, it's something that a guy does or doesn't do that leads to things becoming rocky and unstable at home and it's largely the weakness of the woman who quite literally chooses to not accept it as part of who you are. (There are also exceptions to this as well... should she accept sex, drug or gambling addiction? hell no! should she accept gaming addiction? hell no! should she accept failing to pay the bills because you spent money on geek crap? hell no!)
So putting aside serious detrimental behaviors, if she can't accept that you're a slob or a neat freak, then you shouldn't get married. And let's be clear on what the whole idea of marriage means in the first place. Don't consult a religious leader. Consult a divorce lawyer! If anyone knows what a marriage is REALLY all about, it's an experienced divorce attorney who has assisted in disassembling a marriage and all the things connecting the two people together in a tight relationship. You may find that in this day and age, that marriage is completely obsolete! A limited power of attorney, as it turns out, is all anyone needs unless one of you is from a foreign country. (I firmly believe that marriage is a legally binding agreement that can and will be used against you in a court of law.)
I have also found that some of the most serious sources of troubled marriages stem from the misconceptions of what marriage is or what function it serves. You'd both better be on the same page when it comes to the preconceptions about marriage religiously, socially and legally because they will lead to stupid friction moving forward. Personally, I have no religion and neither does my wife. That takes out 1/3rd of that problem from the start. Socially, we are on the same page. Legally, I'm fully aware since I have been divorced before (and came out on top).
Some people need to not be married at all. Both of you need to do some hard personality analyses on the matter. How do you balance "self vs relationship"? How do you balance "self vs family"? How do you balance "self vs child/ren"? If you favor yourself too much and are mature enough to admit it to yourself, then you probably shouldn't get married at all.
People too often think of marriage in terms of 30 minute situation comedies or two hour romantic comedies. They also too often think of it as a religious and/or social mandate. Get those misconceptions cleared up before you sign those legal documents. I'd say "read the fine print" but there is no fine print!!! Marriage is a bizarre legal construct that is not defined in any one single law anywhere. It's all over the place and frankly most written law is about divorcing if that tells you anything at all.
And even if you have all of the above completely covered, be prepared for changes that occur down the road. Dynamics and roles shift and change... sometimes abruptly and sometimes so gradually, you don't notice. Be flexible and know your limits so that you don't break when things go too far.
I'll tell you what works for me -- I'm ridiculously easy to get along with. I know myself well and have little trouble explaining myself to others while at the same time, I am very accepting of others. It also helps that it is accepted by my wife that I TRULY suck at remembering dates and what day it is. Having forgotten my own birthday on several occasions was all the proof she needed that I am an honestly a forgetful person when it comes to things like that. (And it's not like my birthday would be hard to remember. It's the first of a month! I'm just not that guy.)
Oh yeah, and don't make "the marriage" the thing... not EVER. If "the marriage" was the thing, then you're both chasing something that doesn'
Re:Just some generic advice from me. (Score:5, Funny)
What good will that do?
0, 1, 10 ...
Yeah ditch WoW or... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:August (Score:4, Funny)
Re:August (Score:5, Interesting)
You know, some of us are actually married (with a woman, shock, horror!) and we passed though lots of those pitfalls.
But back on subject. I suggest some NLP training - it's a good stuff if you want to understand other people. I know, lots of you will not agree, but I still believe that the basic parts of it are very useful, relationship wise. Best is that those not only apply to marriage but all kind of relationships.
Then I'd get into some books/audiobooks about negotiations. Only Win-Win stuff. Surprisingly helpful ;)
You can also try to get stuff like "Laugh your way to better marriage". It floats somewhere on intertubes.
Go to elbitz.net and search there. They have lots of cool material. Just stop your urge when you get there and build the ratio as it's quite hard later ;)
Have fun - marriage is to make your life better. If it is not going to make it better - why bother?
Win-Win (Score:4, Funny)
Make her rewrite the Linux Documentation !
Re:August (Score:5, Insightful)
NLP?? [wikipedia.org] I certainly disagree.
I had this stuff inflicted on me during a management course recently. Being the nerdy little science geek I am I went out to investigate it and discovered the same thing that you will discover if you go out and spend some serious time looking through its underlying claims - that is, that it's mostly pulled directly out of someone's plump rectum. I didn't just take my own word for it - I went to the psychology dept at my local university and checked my findings with senior research staff.
That's not to say that learning to listen isn't incredibly important to keeping a marriage going, and it probably is true that approaching that via NLP, bullshit as the specifics are, is still better than not bothering to get the skillset at all. However, it would probably be more healthy to avoid the obfuscatory layer of mumbo-jumbo. NLP selling organisations can be virtually cult-like, and the 'science' has been recognised as more or less valueless since about the 80s.
Posting anonymously because I have a day-job.
Re:August (Score:5, Insightful)
I suggest some NLP training
And while you're at it, an astrology course. Knowing someone's zodiac sign really helps in understanding them. /sarcasm
Re:August (Score:5, Funny)
I suggest some NLP training
I have to disagree with this. Non-linear programming is not appropriate for a marriage. If you can't express your needs as a set of linear constraints, then you're not trying hard enough. If you can't use the simplex algorithm to resolve resource allocation conflicts, then you're not ready to get married.
Re:NLP Alternatives (Score:5, Insightful)
I would add some more -- the big relationship breakers:
#1: Don't cheat. This sounds obvious, but...
#2: Don't think that you could never cheat. Cheating in marriage is incredibly common, and most people who ended up cheating were people who thought that they could never cheat on their spouse. Recognizing that humans are hardwired to be at risk for cheating, that humans are still capable of falling deeply in love with someone other than their spouse during marriage, is the first step toward prevention. The second step is if you develop feelings toward someone else or someone else develops feelings toward you, end contact with that person immediately. The absolute worst thing you can do is to discuss your feelings with them; that will only amplify the feelings, especially if they reciprocate.
#3: Avoid spouse-approved sexual experimentation involving others (X-somes, etc) and so-called "open relationships". They impose too great of a risk for devolving into emotional attachments with the others that can strain the original relationship or unintentionally causing resent by your partner, even when both parties begin by insisting that they're okay with it. Follow the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid.
#4: Stay in tune with your spouse's needs. Absolutely do NOT expect that this will just happen on its own. Talk with your spouse at least once a month about their feelings, whether they're happy with their life, etc. It's an awkward topic to bring up, so most people just avoid it -- but that just leads to people suppressing the things that they're unhappy with. And when they're not having a need met by the relationship, they're at risk for turning elsewhere to get that need met. Don't let these conversations lapse as the relationship goes on; they become more important with time, not less!
#5: Help your spouse stay in touch with your needs. Don't pester, and be very gentle about it, but if you have a long-running issue, bring it up. If it's a sensitive subject, use extra caution when talking about it. However, don't let resentment on some issue fester inside of you.
#6: Money is the root of all evil. In most divorces, money is at least a partial cause. In particular, the issue is debt. Buy a smaller home, fewer cars, take fewer vacations, etc than you think you can afford, keep off of ebay, etc, and you'll relieve a lot of that potential monetary strain by keeping your debt levels low to begin with. The most stressful situation is when you're already deep in debt and you find that you need something expensive, be it replacing an air conditioner, medical bills, or whatnot.
Best of luck!
Re:August (Score:5, Insightful)
A lot of traditional wisdom is honestly some of the best wisdom. When reading books and whatnot, sure it may often be presented in ways that are dated, but there's still a core of truth to much of it. For example:
1) Never go to bed angry. You might go to bed before you solve the problem, but no matter what it is, no matter how bad it is, you can always find a way to hug your wife, kiss her, and tell her that the two of you will be able to work it out. Going to bed angry breeds resentment.
2) Find a few minutes to connect with your wife every day. Tell her that you love her in a way that's not just a repeat utterance of the phrase (like some people say "Have a good day," at the end of every transaction at the store). Change the word order, change the inflection, make eye contact, and hold her hand - something to indicate that you mean it and that you're not just saying it because it's supposed to be said.
3) Never say the word divorce. Not even once. It doesn't matter how mad you are, that is a word that once spoken you cannot take it back. It represents a fracture that will never heal.
4) Agree with each other that when you're having an argument which gets particularly heated, it is ok for either person to walk out of the room, and the argument can just wait until tempers have cooled down a bit. Personally I've always had a really bad temper, and it's only through substantial effort that I have learned to not allow it to control me. But I have a breaking point, and because I'm working so hard at controlling my temper by this point already, I go from seemingly relatively calm to white hot don't-later-remember-what-happened rage within a few seconds. When I fear I'm approaching that point, I walk away, and my wife lets me go. This is much harder than it seems, because both people are probably very angry, hurt, and frustrated at this point, and it's hard to set that aside for the moment. When you resume the discussion later (usually not very long, just long enough to cool off some), cooler heads almost always make it much smoother. DO NOT use this as a way to avoid an argument - this is meant to protect your marriage; abusing it is a form of dishonesty, and will cripple its ability to act as a safety valve. When you get to that point, the things you say can be so hurtful that they remain long after the original trifle that the argument was about is forgotten. When you walk out on the argument, you must always return to it, and it really should be the person who walked out who initiates the return.
5) Always put your wife first. Her interests always trump yours, just as they would when you're dating. That might sound like an unbalanced relationship, but when it's reciprocal the decision process is each person advocating for the other. It tends to cause much more level-headed discussions, and it reinforces the strength of your bond because you feel as if your spouse genuinely cares about what's best for you (and you're right about that). Women are much more likely than men to do this naturally, so you may have to work at it. Sometimes you don't get to do what you wanted to do, but if it's actually important to you, then she'll see and understand that and will advocate it for you. Often you'll later discover that it wasn't nearly as important to you as you thought it was at the time.
Re:August (Score:5, Insightful)
agreed.
but you can boil it all down to "you can be right, or you can be happy."
i heard a comedian say it, on tv.
my wife hits me when i say it.
i'm nearly 100% certain that it's accurate.
Re:August (Score:5, Informative)
My Advice...don't get married. It's a trap.
What happens when you get married:
1. Sex stops
2. She get's fat (probably you too)
3. All your money starts disappearing for no apparent reason.
4. You will be surrounded by strange and insufferable relatives from some place you have never heard of.
5. You will get to drive the old car.
6. Gaming did you say? That won't last long. "I can't believe you are going to play on the computer AGAIN. You just played last week!"
7. She will start asking you if she looks fat, despite the fact she is perfectly aware of #2
8. She won't cook (See #1) and she won't be able to make a decent dinner.
9. You will have to leave the house when her literary friends come over to discuss the life analogies in some gay French author's book.
10. LAN parties? No Fucking Way in her house!
Re:August (Score:4, Insightful)
Let's take alpart your list.
1 happens only if you married a liar. If she stops sex after you get married then she was faking liking it when you were dating.
2 happens If you have kids, yes she will get fat, but if you will get fat as well you lazy bastard.
3 happens only when you marry a liar that is hiding things from you see #1
4 she feels the same way, your parents are not a treat to her either.
5 Only because you let her.
6 Again, you married a control freak liar. your fault.
7 say yes, be honest.
8 again did she say she could?
9 OMFG shoot me now.
10 I host a MTG event monthly, Lan partys now consist of 4 42" plasmas in the living room with xbox360's or ps3's networked. she usually ends up the top of the heap and pisses off most of my friends.
If you marry someone that is incompatible with you and you lied most of your dating, yes you get what you listed. if you are honest to each other when you date, and you actually date people compatible with you you avoid most of the above.
the one I cant stand.... WTF is it with all the fricking pillows on the bed? we need 2... TWO!!!! not 60 of them!!!!!
Re:August (Score:5, Interesting)
First off, being "in love" with someone is a pretty messed up mental state which often blinds people to the faults and realities of the other person. This state of being "in love" can last a couple of years - though it does last far longer for some folks. The biology of this emotional state is to get two people who would otherwise not hook up, to have kids. Essentially, love blinds you to the faults (large and small) of the other person so that you are willing to make an eternal commitment to the other person.
1. Sex in relationships often diminishes regardless of the honesty of the people involved mostly because the female does not have the same sex drive as the male. Other factors contribute to the decrease in sex: medications (such as the birth control pill, anxiety medications, etc.), time stresses (got married and now you are both focuses on earning money to pay for the mortagage), and the negative emotional baggage that builds up over time. Sure, you love her now, and the fact that she won't do the dishes until the last dish is dirty doesn't bother you, but it will bother you a lot three years from now when you come home from an exhausting day of work related hell to find that all of the fucking cups are dirty. You won't get confrontational about it then because you are TIRED and it's a small thing. But sand is a small thing, and it can irritate the hell out of you. And after you have kids. . . sex is a challenge because nothing on earth kills the moment like the sound of your offspring opening the door for . . . a drink of water.
2. Weight gain happens because your metabolism changes and as you get older the work you do becomes less and less physical.
3. You money stops going where you wanted it to go when you were single. That causes resentment because no matter what, marriage does not change WHO YOU ARE and WHAT YOU LIKE. Don't expect her to change either. The only thing that changes people of either sex is trauma - emotional, physical trauma.
4. Relatives . . . mine are strange and insufferable. I like my in laws better.
5. My spouse drives the vehicle I don't want to drive. Right now, I drive the new truck and she drives the old civic. When we bought the SUV, she drove it, because I liked driving the protege better, of course she wanted to drive it.
6. Neglecting your spouse because you play HALO, or WOW 80 hours per week will cause just as much trouble as if you spent 90 hours per week working came home and watched football. It's the not being fair to the other person and forgetting that they need you to participate in their emotional well being part that cause the trouble.
7. Yes, she will ask. You will lie about it.
8. Learn to cook well.
9 & 10. Love is blinding so you'd better be sure she's being honest. If she likes to do the same things you like to do then you're doing pretty well. Otherwise, you'll need some win-win negotiations.
Honesty is the most important factor. If a person is brave enough to be honest with you, and very much wants to be a part of your life and vice versa, great. Beware though, the deceiver, because like a cheater, a liar keeps on lying.
Been there, done that, have the tee-shirt.
Re:August (Score:5, Funny)
See #1. You're not using them right ;)
Re:August (Score:5, Insightful)
Still trying to get this right after 17 years marriage (to the same girl) so good luck! Ooh and if you ask them which they want, they will tell you they want it solved, just don't try and offer them advice on how to accomplish that!
Re:August (Score:4, Funny)
Going to bed angry breeds resentment.
ain't that the truth. in my case, it was 18 years of resentment. and then I had to pay to send resentment to college.
Re:August (Score:4, Funny)
Eating your soup cold out of the can is even more efficient. Cooking != physics.
Re:August (Score:4, Funny)
No - they taste best when cooked IN the can over a trashcan fire.
Proximity to railroad tracks or bridge underpasses seem to add to the taste.
Re:August (Score:4, Funny)
Have fun - marriage is to make your life better. If it is not going to make it better - why bother?
alimony
Re:August (Score:5, Funny)
Ahh, this reminds me of George's marriage counselling days. The dude really saved our relationship. Nothing keeps a wife satisfied like shock and awe in the bedroom.
Re:August (Score:5, Insightful)
Dear OP,
clearly you are not the target audience of those books, throw them out. You two are the only ones who know enough about your relationship to suggest anything, but if your mindset is having fun walking through life together, you'll be better off than thinking about all the things that go wrong. You mostly find what you're looking for, you know.
And if you let it get boring, it will be boring, and probably short, too.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yep, and if nothing else, trying to understand the other one and talk about stuff, without getting mad, is important. And yeah it takes a lot work sometimes.
Also dont let it get boring, even if it easily goes into that. Do stuff together, even if it doesn't interest you. My gf likes it when I do stuff I dont really like with her (those damn freaking clothing stores argh), and I love it when she tries stuff I like. For example she sometimes play games I like and I drink beer and watch her. She didn't like GT
Re:August (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, some good advice. I'm married, and while my wife isn't geeky, the same "rules" apply in all marriages, IMO:
Best of luck for your future together! I don't regret getting married for a second.
PS. Also, let her win at things, no matter how good you are. Trust me on this one. Oh, and when you ask her if she's okay and she says, "Nothing's wrong.", give her a hug, because something is definitely wrong!
Re:August (Score:5, Insightful)
Bollocks. If it is bed time and you are angry, your tiredness is making you even more angry and irrational. If you just go to bed, half the time you will not even remember that you were angry once morning comes. Just go to bed.
Re:August (Score:5, Insightful)
My experience tells me otherwise. You normally both end up going to bed feeling really shitty, and things get left unsaid. You have a bad night sleep, because you're worried, and wake up the next day feeling crap, thoughts stewing in your head, often blaming the other person. Very often, it's easy to just sweep it under the carpet and things get left unsaid. Overall, things get worse.
Actually, it should be, "Never go to sleep angry." Normally we end up going to bed, and after a few minutes, we're feeling crap, and start discussing rationally.
I'm not saying it's not important to know when to walk away for tempers to cool (that's definitely good advice) but leaving things hanging in the air for any length of time, even for sleep, is not good.
Re:August (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:August (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, some good advice. I'm married, and while my wife isn't geeky, the same "rules" apply in all marriages, IMO:
Best of luck for your future together! I don't regret getting married for a second.
PS. Also, let her win at things, no matter how good you are. Trust me on this one. Oh, and when you ask her if she's okay and she says, "Nothing's wrong.", give her a hug, because something is definitely wrong!
Add to this:
It's worked for me and my wife for almost 30 years now.
Good luck!
Re:August (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:August (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree that that phrase is less often said than it needs to be said.
But by itself it accomplishes little. It can even be counter-productive. How often do *you* want to hear your loved one tell you "I'm sorry!" for exactly the same thing. Without some commitment to change (and progress thereof) it's really pretty meaningless.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
That is great advice. Also, learning what it is that you can do to show her you love her is important. Note that what you THINK shows her, may not actually be the magic thing(s) she expects. The great part is, at least in my experience, 90% of the women out there won't tell you what these things are; they expect you to somehow just now what they are, because dammit if you really LOVED her you would just know. Asking might work
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
(those damn freaking clothing stores argh)
Fashion show! As long as I go to clothing stores with pretty girls who come out of the damn booth to show me what they look like, I enjoy it.
The traditional way to do this is to get bored out of your skull while the girl stays in the booth. No fun. Ask, nay, tell her to show you what she tries on so you can interact, and you'll enjoy it too.
Re:August (Score:5, Interesting)
The traditional way to do this is to get bored out of your skull while the girl stays in the booth. No fun. Ask, nay, tell her to show you what she tries on so you can interact, and you'll enjoy it too.
Yeah, I do this and go with her to the booth aswell (which admittedly felt a bit weird at the first times specially if someone looked what they're doing, but ohwell). High heels and shoes and such is hard to comment, other clothing easier tho. But seeing some boobies in the booth helps make the time more enjoyable :)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:August (Score:5, Funny)
Remember to 'sudo'
Re:One advice (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree completely, throw the books away!
I think people like stereotypes and consequently try to change themselves so they can fit into them - not the other way around. For example, if most successful relationship books deal with caveman-style guys and submissive girls, that's because many people draw comfort from these role models, it's something that they can "aspire" to and those stereotypes can be used to explain away anything and everything that comes up in regard to social issues (no actual insight required).
That's the reason why most people always try to become more jock-like or cheerleader-like as the case may be. If you have typical jock/cheerleader problems, your relationship is perceived as normal, you can then go out and buy books that tell you "it's normal because guys are always that way and girls are always that way", most of them purporting (without a real scientific basis of course) that's how it's always been and evolution forces us to be jocks and cheerleaders anyway. On the other hand, if you have real and deeply special problems, you're perceived as a freak and your issues are quickly attributed to failure to be a real jock or cheerleader.
So you basically have to decide if you want to be a conformist who is striving to be a stereotype or whether you want to be yourself. Either way you'll be paying dearly for the path you choose.