Windows 7 To Sell In UK For Half the US Price 487
An anonymous reader writes "In the UK, a full version of Windows 7 Home Premium is going to cost less than half the price Americans will have to pay, and in fact less than Americans have to pay just for the upgrade-only edition. Full details and prices were published in an article on CNet, in which it was concluded that, at least for the time being, Microsoft is honoring the prices it set for the now-discontinued European version of Win7, which did not contain Internet Explorer 8 and was only available as a full-install edition."
So, (Score:5, Funny)
Do Yanks start ordering from amazon.co.uk?
Re:So, (Score:5, Funny)
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No, you're thinking of the Australian version.
Re:So, (Score:5, Funny)
I thought Australian meeses had their buttons on the bottom.
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I thought Australian meeses had their buttons on the bottom.
Yeah they do, but 'cause you're on the underneath of the planet and therefore sitting upsidedown at your desk, you can't notice any difference at all. Unless, of course, you take that mouse up to the top.
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We may be upside down, but at least we aren't backward
Re:So, (Score:4, Funny)
Re:So, (Score:5, Funny)
The UK version will also only run off of 240V. Unless you plug your computer into your stove outlet in the kitchen or rewire your house, you can't use the UK version in the USA.
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This is Slashdot. Next week there'll be a front-page story with someone's journal post of how to make a step-up transformer in order to use the UK version.
left handed mouse, no IE real savings (Score:2)
Re:It's all about killing choice (Score:4, Insightful)
You need a new hobby. You managed to nail every Microsoft/Win 7 slashdot talking point in one post. What are the rest of us supposed to talk about now?
Re:So, (Score:4, Funny)
The mouse buttons are reversed from the way they are here in the States.
So, Mac users are OK then...
Translating it into English was really cheap! (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess they're pricing it for their target market? Surely nobody would ship a copy from the UK over to North America!
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But does it come in AMERICAN English?
Maybe I can buy a downloadable upgrade, and run through a brit proxy to download it....
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Yeah I mean that translation was difficult. It's the same version they sell in Canada.
Re:Translating it into English was really cheap! (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah I mean that translation was difficult. It's the same version they sell in Canada.
Having lived for years in the US (several states), UK, and Canada (Ontario & BC), I can assure you that Canadian English is as close to American as to British, but is distinct from both. Yes, Canucks spell colour with a "u" and so forth, but they also use the US "-ize" ending instead of the Brit "-ise" ending on many words, leading to particularly Canadian forms such as "colourize". In vocabulary, Canucks use US words such as "crosswalk", "sidewalk", and "apartment", rather than the Brit equivalents, and adopt the US meaning for "chips". As in the US but not the UK, words in Canadian are as likely to be imported from Italian as from French (e.g. "zucchini" rather than "courgette"). However, Canucks appear to be split or undecided on the vexed question of whether to use "aluminum" or "aluminium".
FWIW, I am not originally from the US or the UK or Canada.
Re:Translating it into English was really cheap! (Score:4, Informative)
As a Canadian I can guarantee to you that nobody born here calls it 'aluminium.'
Well, considering.... (Score:3, Interesting)
...most will just DL it anyhow...does it really matter? ;)
Re:Well, considering.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually for £65 I might actually consider buying a full copy of Windows for the first time as opposed to downloading it. It's always been too expensive to justify before.
Arbitrage (Score:5, Interesting)
This will lead to people indulging in arbitrage [wikipedia.org].
Unless, of course, Microsoft has somehow put in a mechanism that disables a UK-bought Windows 7 when someone attempts to install it on a computer located in the US.
Re:Arbitrage (Score:5, Funny)
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I guess everyone from Canada won't have any issues!
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Analyzing the spelling of Analyse (Score:3, Informative)
Except, according to the Oxford dictionary, realize is more correct (because of its Greek origins). The use of -ise instead of -ize is a recent British innovation (recent in the sense of the last century or so) ... mainly so people don't misspell analyse the way we do (which is not of Greek origin). -ize is one of the rare cases where the North American spelling is actually closer to traditional, "correct" English than the UK -ise ... in stark contrast to almost every other difference between the two ("ti
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And just because I'm an American who spells colour, honour, behaviour, etc. with the letter "u", doesn't mean I'm British.
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Unless, of course, Microsoft has somehow put in a mechanism that disables a UK-bought Windows 7 when someone attempts to install it on a computer located in the US.
No no... that's not how this works.. you allow a a few million copies to be sold to Americans then you release a security fix that automaticlly installs and disables any copy that is located anywhere in America based on it's IP address thus forcing those stupid Americans to buy yet another license which will be offered at a slight discount from the US retail version.
Basically you make much more money and piss off your customer base at the same time.....
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Considering how many computers are behind router on non-routable subnets, that's not going to work. Just have it check to see what the time zone is. Of course, that lets out Canada, but that's just minor collateral damage to somebody as big as Microsoft.
THE HELL IT'S NOT.. WinXP boxes connect to a Microsoft server once a day for updates, somehow I don't think SEVEN is going to be much different...
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That's no problem... I use 10.255.x.x IP addresses. These are clearly European.
We'll see what tracert has to say about that! Or maybe my broke ass site http://www.paranoidsurfing.com/ [paranoidsurfing.com]
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HA! I tricked it:
Proxy not detected.
It doesn't know about Privoxy!!!! Ha ha ha ha!!!
Oh, wait.........
IP & Proxy Information:
IP Addr: xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
Proxy not detected.
They figured out that I've been peddling smut on the intarwebz!!! The IRS will be here tomorrow!! What do I do now???
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HA! I tricked it:
Heh that's why i said it was broken... It is however making a database with all your information for me to review later and fix it....
Re:Arbitrage (Score:4, Insightful)
This will lead to people indulging in arbitrage [wikipedia.org].
You say that like that's a bad thing.
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The UK doesn't have sovereign power in America.
Theoretically, the UK does indeed have plenty of sovereign power in America. Thirteen states from Canada to Guyana all recognize her Majesty to a greater or lessor extent.
I think you meant in the United States
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Nope. America is an unambiguous description of The United States of America. Just like the United States of Mexico are called "Mexico" and no one is ever confused, the same works for the US. If someone is referring to the continent, the correct uses are "North America" or "South America" or "the Americas" but never plain "America." As such, the only people claiming confusion are those that understand what's being said and are just lying when they say there is conf
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As such, the only people claiming confusion are those that understand what's being said and are just lying when they say there is confusion.
You're assuming that everyone who speaks English speaks the same English as you. The majority of English-speakers are non-native speakers, and some of them may not appreciate those subtleties. In an international forum, "America" and "American" are ambiguous.
To illustrate: even among native Spanish-speakers speaking in Spanish, "América" and "americano" are ambiguous. Some use them in reference to the USA; others in reference to the continent(s), using "Estados Unidos" (EEUU) and "estadounidense" in
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So, because they don't use it, it's not an issue. And if they did use it, they would never use the word "american" but "americano," so again, I'm not wrong. I guess I could have put in there that language rules for English only apply to the English speaking people. But then, people with a pet peeve never listen to logic anyway. They don't use "American" in Spanish because it's an English word. Though there is a Spanish word that looks the same doesn'
Nicholas Wirth (Score:5, Funny)
When he was in Europe - they called him 'Nicholas Wirth', the correct pronunciation.
When he was in USA - they called him 'Nickles Worth', the incorrect pronunciation.
He inferred this was because whilst in Europe they called him by name, when in USA they called him by value.
Well Microsoft seems to have definitely reversed that with this decision.
It's Niklaus! (Score:4, Interesting)
The funniest thing about that post is that you didn't even manage to spell his name properly!
Yeah? So? (Score:5, Insightful)
We've got region coding on DVDs that does the same thing -- different prices for different markets because we all know that "one market" just isn't right. We must have several markets because different markets will bear different amounts. It would definitely be counter-productive to not take advantage of markets that will pay more or those that will only pay less.
It also makes sense that markets that are more likely to switch to Linux or Mac OS X should pay less and that markets that are less likely to switch should pay more. I have pondered the notion of how a national switch to Linux could work out for any nation and I have to say, it's really hard to imagine. But with that said, the entire globe managed to switch to the metric system, including the U.K. Oh wait, not the entire world... the U.S. is a hold-out... is the U.S. the *last* hold-out? (I dunno) So while the world might switch away from Windows, the U.S. is probably the least likely to make that change.
Is it illegal to fix prices like this? It is in the U.S. It is in other countries. But is it illegal to fix prices for specific countries so long as the whole country is included in that fixed price? I guess so since no one is charging Microsoft with any crimes... yet...
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Charging different prices in different markets isn't price fixing, it's price discrimination. Those are totally different things.
Price discrimination is what museums do when they offer student and senior discounts. Or, it's what the street vendor does when he sees you're wearing nice clothes are tells you your trinket is $10, instead the $5 he just sold one for to the people in old jeans.
Price fixing would be if all the sellers in a market got together and agreed not to sell to anyone below a certain price.
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Artificially enforcing price discrimination should be illegal. Countries have used tariffs for many years to try to balance the value of a cheaper import good with that which is produced locally to make their own products more competitive.
One example of the end result is a huge glut of corn syrup usage in american foods, whereas if there were no tariffs on cane sugar importation, sugar would once again be the primary sweetener used in food industry instead of corn syrup. This is market inefficiency at its f
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Don't be intentionally dense and dramatic. Every corporation desires perfect discrimination, where each customer is given the opportunity to pay the largest sum they think it is worth. I don't blame companies for seeking discrimination because that's what they do-make money. Microsoft hasn't suffered any downward pressure in pricing from the free market on it's OS products in 15 years due to their illegal monopoly.
No, I don't want to "interfere" with the consensual purchase of any MS product. What I would l
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Now that the Philippines has switched, I think it is just Liberia and Burma left. And England still uses miles sometime, where appropriate.
For the record, Celsius sucks for the "how warm is it today?" question (the scale based on 0-100% is better), Meters suck for "how big is this object I hold?" question, and using a drill size 1/64
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another example: when working with a (foot long) wrench or spanner, with the Foot-pound you can simply & intuitively feel how much force to apply. With the Newton-Meter you need a special gauge to know.
Re:Yeah? So? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's all simple and intuitive when it's the system you've been taught and used since childhood. Trust me, for someone who's been using metric for all his life, meters and kilograms and degrees Celsius are perfectly easy to use and intuitive, while your pounds, feet, and Fahrenheit are totally weird and incomprehensible. Especially conversions between them.
12 inches in a foot, but 3 feet in a yard - why? And 1760 yards in a mile - gosh, how convenient that must be. Even better when you get to area and volume units - I mean, 1728 cubic inch in a cubic foot sure roll from the tongue, and is easy to remember as well. And 1 acre being 43560 square inch is so obvious! If that wasn't enough, you have separate units of volume, which follow their own, mixed 2/4-based progression (unlike mixed 3/4-based for length) - gallon/quart/pint. I also love how there's 16 ounces in a pound, but then 2000 pounds in a short ton - hey, it's almost metric - yay for consistency!
All the claims about Imperial being more "natural" or easier to use are pure bullshit. The only difference between the systems is that one is decimal-friendly and consistent, and another is not.
Re:Yeah? So? (Score:4, Insightful)
And 1 acre being 43560 square inch is so obvious!
No, it's 43560 square feet in an acre, not square inches though I guess you sort of proved your point as you confused the units while describing how much harder it is to remember conversions in english units versus metric units.
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12 inches in a foot, but 3 feet in a yard - why?
We prefer to ask "Why not?" ;)
The only difference between the systems is that one is decimal-friendly and consistent, and another is not.
That's not true. One was designed by the French and the other was not. That's all most Americans need to hear. I've often thought we should invent our own base ten measurement system and impose it on the rest of the world out of sheer spite ;) If they do make us switch to metric then the least we can do is come up with new names for the measurements. Millifreedom, centifreedom, freedom and kilofreedom sounds like a good replacement for millimeters, centimeters, meters and
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That's decimal v duodecimal (base 10 v base 12), not imperial v metric. Egg packing doesn't have much to do with either measurement system. They still sell eggs in boxes of 6 or 12 in the UK. Sometimes they sell 10, or 4, or 9.
You could use metric in base 12 (e.g. 2a88 m) if it's useful enough to you.
(PS, it's "honey, I have eleven left". We have a base-12 language up to 12, eleven and twelve have their own words, thirteen doesn't, it means three-ten. It's more obvious in something like German: zehn (10), e
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There's one more difference. One system of measure has a group of people so convinced it's the best thing ever that they think the law should prohibit people from using any other.
If the metric system is so great, why is it necessary to try to force people to use it? Let people use whatever measuring system they find most useful and if the metric system is better, it'll become dominant.
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Let me rephrase it. Can you "feel" what 20 kg weighs like? Most people can. Would you feel comfortable to apply approximately 20 kg of force at the end of a socket wrench? Most people would, it's intuitive and you have experience in how much force* that is. That's how easy a foot-pound is. It's a pound of force at the end of a foot long tool. Now, could you - off the street with no training - trust yourself to apply 60 Newton-meters of force on a socket wrench? No idea how much that is? Exactly my point.
First of all, newton-meters do not measure force. Newtons measure force. Newton-meters measure torque.
Also, given that newton is ~1/10 (not exactly, but good enough for the situation you describe) of "kg of force", and given that you admit that it's not a problem to "feel" and intuitively apply force in kg, why would I have a problem in applying them? I just divide by 10.
As for "how hot is it today?", surely a scale based roughly on 0-100% of full scale is more natural to the answer than one based on the boiling point of a common liquid.
On whose full scale? Los Angeles? Toronto? Vilnius? Norilsk?
By the way, defining 0 as a freezing point is actually pretty damn convenient
Re:Yeah? So? (Score:5, Interesting)
[Metric system -] is the U.S. the *last* hold-out?
Nope, you're in good company with Myanmar (Burma) and Liberia.
(less facetiously, the UK still uses miles for distances and miles per hour for speed, and fair number of people still use feet & inches for human height)
Just checking... (Score:5, Funny)
Y'all know that £20 isn't really half as much spending power as $40, right?
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Y'all know that £20 isn't really half as much spending power as $40, right?
Indeed, but TFA says in the UK they are paying (converting here to dollars) $107 USD for a full version of Windows 7, whereas here in the US we're paying $200 for a full version (and $120 for an upgrade).
So the issue is, they're paying $93 less for a full version than we are, and on top of that, $13 less for a full version than we are for an upgrade.
Viral advertising? (Score:2)
My spidey-sense is tingling. I'm guessing that there will be an uproar, a lot, a whole lot, of press in the US about how unfair it is and then, tada, the US price actually comes in even lower than the UK price and they throw in a free churro - because USA-ians stick together and MS is just supporting business growth in the US and if only everyone will go out and buy it then democracy will come to the world and ...
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Oh, I see your all getting your panties in a bunch when someone else is getting it cheaper!
What about Australia where I recall reading that Win7 is going to be substantially more expensive than the US (not sure about double, can't recall, but it was significantly more).
Didn't here boo from you cunts then did we? Except maybe the lame droll about convicts, living upside down etc.
dickheads...
An open letter to Windows marketing team (Score:5, Funny)
I read recently that you have decided to cut Windows 7's price in the UK to about half of what it is here in the US. I don't feel that it does justice to us here in the States, as we're actually getting less value than your UK market.
Take, for example, all the U's that have been dropped from words. My color is not colour, but yet, I have to pay more for the lack of the U. This is unfair. Has the cost of cutting U's from words taken a sharp climb?
Perhaps the letter Z is charging too much these days, and I know how that can be. It only makes sparse appearances in words such as localize and marginalize, but despite its rare occurrence, it, much like a has-been movie star, has the gall to demand top billing. Perhaps your royalties payable to this (not)under-appreciated letter raise the costs here in the US.
Whatever the reasoning, I still find it unfair, and being such a large and powerful corporation, the fact that you can be taken advantage of like this is not only sad, but reprehensible. Use those lawyers of yours and get back at them! Hey, you can even be on the winning end of an anti-trust suit... think of the headlines now: "'Z' Loses Anti-Trust Judgement Thanks to Microsoft". Won't that be good press?
Sincerely,
A Concerned Citizen
PS - This message has been brought to you by the letter 5.
Re:An open letter to Windows marketing team (Score:5, Funny)
We here at Microsoft take the utmost care when faced with queries such as yours.
It is a little misunderstanding. While it is true that you aren't getting your full from the vowel U in the American version, we are including the other vowels I&E in it, which do actually not come packaged with the European version.
I hope you find these two shiny vowels as valuable as we thought you would, and now understand the extra cost of the American version of the product.
Sincerely,
A Helpful Customer Servicer
PS. This message has been brought to you by the number $107.
This is news? (Score:5, Interesting)
The price for my country was going to be twice that in the US, let alone the UK. I dont remember any outrage about that.
Yea, it sucks, but other people most probably have it worse off than you do. Or they use linux.
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Same in Denmark. Expensive and no family licence deals ...
At least Microsoft aren't expecting people to pirate the damn thing ...
Not surprising (Score:5, Insightful)
Price gouging ... (Score:5, Informative)
MS, like many American companies, are fleecing the country.
GB prices for tech are usually close to the same number of pounds as dollars things have eased a bit recently, here are two random examples:
* New Apple iPod Touch 8GB 2nd Generation (amazon UK), £152 = $250
* ditto (amazon US), $215 -> UK one is only 16% more
* Dell M17X laptop (UK), £1699 = $2815
* ditto (US), $1799 -> saving $1000 by purchasing in the US vs in the UK where it is 56% more expensive
Last year it was about $2 = £1; http://www.google.co.uk/finance?q=GBPUSD [google.co.uk]
You were saying ...? This would make it even more extraordinary for Win 7 to be cheaper here, but when I look ...
* Win 7 ultimate (amazon UK), £170 = $280
* ditto (amazon US), $220 -> so only $60 / 27% more and the UK price is a "discounted" one from an RRP (recommended price) of £230
Um?
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The £152 price of the iPod Touch includes 15% VAT. The ex-VAT price is £132.17 (US$218.61).
American advertised prices don't include sales tax, UK advertised prices do (or are marked as ex-VAT if they don't).
Vista upgrade? (Score:4, Informative)
According to amazon.co.uk, since I am running XP, I could get a vista home premium upgrade for £60, and they will throw in a full windows 7 home premium free..
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_84366313_1?ie=UTF8&docId=1000321063&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=special-product-offers-3&pf_rd_r=1N0XDYG13SRJD90788PR&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=470374053&pf_rd_i=B0013O54P8 [amazon.co.uk]
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Why would running XP be a pre-requisite? If I'm reading Amazon's terms and conditions correctly, you only need to purchase a qualifying version of Vista (full or upgrade) to be eligible for a free (full) copy of Windows 7. It doesn't state anywhere that you have to install the version of Vista that you purchase...
Wouldn't that mean that without owning any prior Microsoft OS you could purchase Vista Home Premium Upgrade for £60, avoid breaking the EULA by not installing it, and then install your shiny,
Ha-Ha! (Score:2)
In the UK, a full version of Windows 7 Home Premium is going to cost less than half the price Americans will have to pay...
Getting stiffed by Microsoft simply because you CAN pay more. I think that's hilarious. How are the Microsoft faithful going to spin this one?
I've got a link for the Windows fanbois [angelfire.com].
Just wondering (Score:3, Insightful)
Win7 is selling for half the price over 'ome? Does this mean UK residents are twice as smart as their American counterparts?
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner (Score:3, Insightful)
It's cheaper and you don't have to manually eradicate Internet Explorer?
Where do I sign up?!
True for Ultimate edition as well (Score:2)
Amazon.co.uk: 169.98 GBP/281.66$ [amazon.co.uk]
Amazon.com: 319.99$/193.11GBP [amazon.com]
Not sure if the huge price difference between Home Premium and Ultimate is worth it though.
Half of the price (Score:3, Funny)
so about the same as us oem price? (Score:5, Insightful)
so about the same as us oem price?
About time... (Score:3, Insightful)
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But this time it's the Americans on the receiving end of being over-charge for a product (for now). They're not used to it, so they feel it is unfair. Us Brits have got used to the fact that a lot of prices are basically taken at $1=£1, even if the exchange rate is closer to $2=£1 and given up hoping that prices would be adjusted accordingly.
About time too. (Score:3, Informative)
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Congratulations Steve, I'm installing OSX in a VM soon.
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$29 is for an upgrade from Leopard. Apparently you cannot upgrade straight from Tiger, and it's unlikely to work standalone if that's your idea.
Re:Good news for others (Score:4, Funny)
$29 is for an upgrade from Leopard. Apparently you cannot upgrade straight from Tiger, and it's unlikely to work standalone if that's your idea.
Only to an insane person would that sentence make a modicum of sense. Or a mac owner. :D
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$29 is for an upgrade from Leopard. Apparently you cannot upgrade straight from Tiger, and it's unlikely to work standalone if that's your idea.
There's a straight upgrade from Tiger if you have intel machine
And it will cost $169 [amazon.com] (the same price as previous Box Sets). A great deal, but it's not the $29 OS-only option that Leopard users get.
From Apple's OS X specs page [apple.com]:
If your Intel-based Mac is running Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger, purchase the Mac Box Set (when available), which is a single, affordable package that includes Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard; iLife '09, with the latest versions of iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, and iDVD; and iWork '09,
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$29 for Snow Leopard!?
Congratulations Steve, I'm installing OSX in a VM soon.
Installing OSX on non-Apple hardware is against the License, so you might as well just download yourself a copy since you'll be in "violation" of said license either way.
Re:Good news for others (Score:4, Insightful)
so you might as well just download yourself a copy since you'll be in "violation" of said license either way.
Violation of an EULA is not even the remote equivalent of violation of copyright law.
Re:Good news for others (Score:5, Insightful)
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it's pretty much the same thing since a EULA is an agreement with the copyright holder
Wrong [wikipedia.org].
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Re:Good news for others (Score:5, Interesting)
He never said the VM wouldn't be on an Apple machine...
Funny, but I find it flabbergasting that Apple still does not allow non-server versions of OS X to run in a virtual machine [macworld.com], even on an Apple machine:
Nancy Sinatra might have something to say (Score:2)
You may be old enough to remember Nancy Sinatra's song:
This Eula's meant for breaking,
and that's just what I'll do,
and one of these days this Eula's
gonna get broke all over you!
Only for a Leopard upgrade (Score:2)
Apple surprised people by putting the price to upgrade to Snow Leopard at a very attractive $29 for a single license, and $49 for a five-user family pack. But there's a catch: you have to already have Leopard installed to pay those prices. If you're upgrading from a previous version of Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger), you'll have to pay $169, which includes an upgrade to 10.5 (Leopard) and 10.6 (Snow Leopard). For a 5-user family pack license, it'll cost $229. And Snow Leopard is only compatible with Macs containing Intel chips. On the OS front, Leopard is the end of the line for PowerPC Mac owners.
Re:So will it be region locked? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So will it be region locked? (Score:5, Funny)
"There are alternatives."
Arrrr, that thar be matey!
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Re:So will it be region locked? (Score:5, Insightful)
You're asking the wrong question. You should ask yourself what tasks you are trying to accomplish. If it then turns out the only software available to accomplish those tasks runs on Windows, bad luck. But if you're focusing on applications instead of tasks, yeah, you'll never find an alternative.
Mart
Re:So will it be region locked? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're THAT reliant on a single *application*, you have bigger problems anyway. What if the application breaks, or its creator goes out of business, or become vulnerable to a serious security flaw that doesn't get updated for years, etc.?
If your data is THAT important, you'd at least secure something - whether that be the application (e.g. by bringing it in-house and doing it yourself) or the data (by using more standardised formats, etc.)
"Switching applications", "Switching OS", etc. should be TRANSPARENT to any business that relies on its data that badly. Otherwise the disappearance or modification of those things will break the business, not just the computer system, and permanently, not just for a day or two.
Re:So will it be region locked? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:So will it be region locked? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So will it be region locked? (Score:5, Insightful)
lots [linux.com] of [autotelic.com] alternatives [thepiratebay.org].
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US companies doing that to foreign markets isn't as bad. Nor is it that bad when foreign companies do it to US customers. But when a US company takes the cash and dicks over US consumers that's clearly unacceptable.
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You know MS make more money out of Europe than they do out of the US? I say Windows should default to damn UK English on UK keyboards, but it ain't gonna happen. And the reason "nobody buys it" is circular with the reason it's been removed in the first place - nobody buys things like Windows "N" because, basically, you can't from any of the retailers that sell OS pre-installed computers, because Microsoft basically make it prohibitive on a business basis. It's virtually impossible to find - I don't know