Throwing Out Software That Works 622
theodp writes "Just as the iPhone rendered circa-2007 smartphones obsolete, points out Marco Arment, the iPad is on the verge of doing the same to circa-2010 netbooks. Should this succeed, cautions Dave Winer, we may be entering an era of deliberate degradation of the user experience and throwing overboard of software that works, for corporate reasons. Already, Winer finds himself having to go to a desktop machine if he wants to view web content that's inaccessible with his iPhone and iPad. 'There was no bottleneck for software in the pre-iPad netbooks,' he writes. 'It matters. What I want is the convenient form factor without the corporate filter. It's way too simplistic to believe that we'll get that, but we had it. That's what I don't like — deliberate devolution.'"
Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:4, Insightful)
Steve Jobs is deliberately destroying the web and trying to remold it as he sees fit. He would rather that content creators only build native iOS apps that work only for iDevices rather than use already-existing channels & platforms that work perfectly fine.
His war on interpreted code/runtimes and (WORA) Write-Once-Run-Anywhere is a big headache for content creators everywhere.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
So what the heck is wrong with making a phone or pad that supports HTML, and not plugins?
This is Slashdot, right, not the Flash Programmers Welfare Foundation?
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
So what the heck is wrong with making a phone or pad that supports HTML, and not plugins?
What's wrong with making a phone or pad that supports HTML *and* plugins? Because there's no technical reason in the world to do that. Such products already exist. Those are shackles Mr. Jobs is putting on your wrists, not iFreedom Bracelets.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Informative)
Right, because Flash is all pink ponies.
Yes, Steve Jobs wants Adobe gone or under his control for a variety of reasons, but if Flash was less bloated, it would've been on the iPhone immediately.
Heh. Even with four cores and 4 gigs of RAM, I still automatically Noscript Flash, for "technical" reasons.
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The one think you have to understand about Jobs is that he's primarily motivated by good design. Like all businessmen he wants to sell products and make money, but that's not an end in itself. He already has more money than he could ever spend. Sales are the way by which design decisions in his products are judged. They are like applause from an audience.
Technical reasons? Would the fact that most Flash apps are unusable on a touch screen count as technical reasons? For the most obvious reason Flash apps
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
Damn right. The web (Internet) was supposed to provide a platform that could be accessed by all devices, providing they adhere to the web standards. And that means HTML. Not Flash, or Silverlight, or even Java Applets.
So bugger off and make your own proprietary network standard. Just don't go bitch about a company that's brought out a devive that DOES support just the standards. Hell, should I moan if I bring out a proprietary plug-in that isn't supported by device X? Or should I put my money and time into making something that works within the standard (or at least help stabilise the upcoming standard)?
Next you'll be wanting to modify the TCP/IP protocol itself to suit your particular content - and then bitch at Apple for not supporting it in their products.
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The intentions are likely different from what you're thinking. I don't believe anyone really sets out to become a monopolist and Jobs is no exception. He appears to be removing the things which have treated his platform badly and is replacing them with two things - standards based technologies and platform specific technologies. You can use either. Calling Flash a healthy development environment is a laugh since it has become one of the most resource hungry attack vectors of recent memory. If Apple made hug
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Funny)
Oh hey, wait a minute, Flash won't run on my iPad. Flash sux!
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I was on my way to a restaurant that had a website that did that. Apparently to find the address you had to navigate through a big flash thing. I picked a different restaurant. I would have done the same thing had I been on a computer that did support Flash. I have better things to do than put up with broken websites.
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Why do you suppose I was looking up the address on the web page? Perhaps because Google maps didn't have it listed?
There seem to be a lot of people here who think Google is both infallible and all knowing. It isn't.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:4, Insightful)
That's some nice revisionist history there, especially when you consider that the initial "development platform" for the iPhone was purely HTML web apps. A development platform, I should add, that is still 100% fully supported on all the iOS devices.
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the initial "development platform" for the iPhone was purely HTML web apps. A development platform, I should add, that is still 100% fully supported on all the iOS devices.
It sounds good on paper, but can you explain why every major business feels the need to write their own native iApp? If HTML5 apps on iOS are so good and portable, why aren't they heavily used in practice?
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Apple explicitly has two supported mechanisms for creating iOS apps: the Cocoa Touch APIs, and open web technologies. And Apple has done quite a lot to improve the experience with the latter, including supporting HTML5 local storage and HTML5 application caching, which together allow for apps based entirely on web tech and distributed outside of the app store to be saved to the iOS home screen and run without network access. They also let such apps choose to hide browser chrome. Additionally, they've added
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Since when have content creators had anything to do with WORA? For a long time, it was more like WORIE -- Write Once Run on Internet Explorer. Jobs is probably delighted now that HIS is the platform they have to right for.
Crackpot conspiracy theory? (Score:3, Informative)
Is that why the iPhone originally intended to have apps that were just "web clips" until people whined that they couldn't write native applications?
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When Jobs introduced the original iPhone, he declared, "The browser is the SDK". Or words to that effect. This made a lot of prospective developers unhappy and the lack of a native SDK was a significant issue of consternation right up until it was released with iPhone OS 2.0.
Of course, at that time the browser wasn't in any way rea
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
Same is true for my 2006 Nokia E61. Impossible how i could stand having the choice between several web browsers. Totally irresponsible how Nokia does not enforce the use of the preinstalled (not so good) e-mail client but allows me to install unsigned (or signed) alternatives. Totally irresponsible that there are several instant messaging clients. This hampers with my user experience. i have to make choices what works best for me. Thinking hurts.
bug reporting (Score:3, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah my 2006 Blackberry is really obselete now. Going online, checking my mail, instant messaging, and god forbid calling people has never been a worse experience. But I guess I don't have a fart button app, time to throw it out.
The fact is you are right, but don't miss the humor in all this.
I think its hilarious that the guy posting this article made the *choice* to move to the iPad, and now blames Apple for the change in the market. Hello! Wake up dummy! You voted to support this with your DOLLARS when you already knew it would be this way --- oh and now its 'blame apple' time. And as far as I know all the netbooks are still available. Will your trend-wad friends not hang with you if you whip out your Acer instead of an iPad? Go get some REAL friends.
As far as I can tell this article is no more than a mask to cover the buyers remorse for being weak enough to fall for Apple's marketing/buzz/trend campaign. Boo hoo.
LOL.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:4, Informative)
In certain environments, such as hospitals and healthcare facilities, ANY wireless functionality can interfere with patient equipment. Doesn't matter if your smartphone uses 3G, WiFi or sub-etheric holowave - either your hospital's Biomedical Engineering department will have to take it apart and certify it for use (good luck with that), or you can't have it. This is why we still use one-way pagers when 99.44% of the world has moved on to SMS, and why the only mobile phone you can have on a unit is a $600 SpectraLink that looks and acts like a throwback to 1995. There are also lots of workplaces that restrict wireless connectivity for security purposes, in which just disabling the functionality isn't good enough.
Niche market, to be sure, but there still is a market for non-wireless PDAs.
Re:Yeah nothing works anymore (Score:5, Interesting)
Short answer: It depends on what unit you're in.
Long answer: In medical-surgical units (your basic, low-acuity "floor nursing" kind of places), nobody much cares because none of those patients have any kind of fancy monitoring going on, and most of them are stable enough to go home within a day or so anyway. Hence, everybody and their brother has mobile phones, netbooks and the like, and some hospitals even go so far as to provide free WiFi on those floors. That isn't the case in critical care. In ICU and its sub-variants (medical, surgical, neonatal and so forth), since every patient has a pile of invasive care systems (ventilators, arterial lines, Swan-Ganz catheters, Vigileos, CRRT, IABP, ECMO, etc) and half a dozen pumped drips, you will see signage EVERYWHERE warning you not to bring in any active electronics, and the staff will hunt you down if they suspect you might be "carrying." I very nearly got kicked out of a PICU a year and a half ago for having a Palm m515 (!) with my copies of Lexi-Comp, Harriet Lane and Mosby's Critical Care Nursing, and we wrote up a doctor who brought an iPhone to the CV-SICU in my preceptorship.
Emergency is kind of a mixed bag. Some places ban electronics entirely in the fear of compromising critical patients' monitoring and treatment systems, others realize it's a losing endeavor and just try to separate the critical from the walkie-talkies as much as physically possible. (I dare you to walk into a room full of combative drunks and tell them you're confiscating their mobile phones because they're interfering with the Vigileo on the sepsis patient two doors down. Let me know how many stitches you require afterward.)
Does all that rigmarole actually save lives? Probably not. I think a lot of it is throwback to the days of bag phones, when doctors and other big shots routinely walked around with what amounted to unlicensed nuclear accelerators on their shoulders, and the electronics really WERE that sensitive to interference. On the other hand, I've seen monitoring equipment go haywire when patients' family members attempted to make cellular calls, and return to normal function once the offenders were escorted off the unit. In any case, we'll always err on the side of caution - better safe than sued.
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Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
The iPad causes all netbooks to disappear all of a sudden?
It's your own damn problem if you bought an iPad. Should have bought a netbook.
Writing this on my EeePC. I like a real keyboard.
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You have meaningful OS choice on a netbook. Some of us, self included, DEMAND that.
Those who failed to consider the implications of buying very limited devices can always buy another, different device.
Phones and pads are intended to be throwaways, so throw them away when you are done. What some purchasers want of them is not what they are for.
PDAs (Score:3, Insightful)
Those who failed to consider the implications of buying very limited devices can always buy another, different device.
Until "another, different device" stops getting manufactured. Case in point: PDAs. Ideally, people like me who don't need Internet in a vehicle and don't need anywhere near the 450 voice minutes a month of the cheapest U.S. smartphone service plans would choose a PDA over a smartphone to save money. But now it seems the only major PDA that isn't a smartphone is iPod touch. Everything else, such as nearly every Android 2 device, is marketed as a cell phone and costs two to three times as much as an iPod touc
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I bought my mother one - and of course had to check it out for a couple of weeks to make sure it worked OK - I won't buy
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Insightful)
They bought them for the wrong reasons, mostly - price. They hate the tiny keyboard and weirdo screen. The couple of people I know that have iPads just love them
That makes a lot of sense. The iPad is expensive, so the only people who buy them are people who can see a real use for them (or people with too much money). In contrast, netbooks are cheap, so lots of people buy them wanting something different because they can afford the netbook but not what they really want. I know a couple of people with netbooks - both bought them because they wanted a cheap second laptop that they could take to places where they wouldn't take their main one, and both are happy with them.
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wait, so do you like a real keyboard or are you writing this on your eeepc?
that's what happens (Score:2)
when some one comes out with a new device.
sure tablets have been out for a decade. but until someone put a tablet GUI on it they weren't worth very much. When apple annouced the iPad I was both happy and sad. Happy that the form factor that I have wanted for a decade would finally be available, sad that it would take 12-18 months before anyone else could ever come close to duplicating the software/hardware/price point.
now I simply have to wait for andriod 3.0 to come out, along with some decently assemb
Whip out that gopher client? (Score:3, Insightful)
Technology marches ahead. I can't check those 5.25 floppies anymore. How about those Corvus 5MB hard drives or cassette tapes of Lemonade?
That's how it is. If he doesn't like it, he can jailbreak his iPad, port Bochs, and install XP.
Re:Whip out that gopher client? (Score:5, Insightful)
He has my sympathy (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:He has my sympathy (Score:5, Funny)
"It must suck to have Steve Jobs break into your house, smash your netbook, and force you at gunpoint to buy an iPad."
I for one find the idea vaguely arousing.
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It must suck to have Steve Jobs break into your house, smash your netbook, and force you at gunpoint to buy an iPad.
My thoughts exactly. I got a Toshiba Netbook shortly after trying out a friend's and I love it. I tend to use my computers a little longer than most people, so will see what is out there again in a few years. Really not seeing this "software threat" as an issue while everything I have loaded on my machines works and won't do "less" than it does today.
Other smartphones obsolete? (Score:4, Informative)
Which planet do you live on?
Other smartphone are not obsolete by a long shot.
I stopped reading after the first sentence.
Mass market consumption=lowest common denominator (Score:2)
It occurs to me that I had essentially the same conversation recently with a European acquaintance regarding the availability of a nice pate or decent wine at grocery stores here in the states.
Obsolete...No. (Score:4, Insightful)
I use a smartphone (non-iPhone) and a netbook pretty much every day. They are far from obsolete, as they do exactly what I need in a form factor that provides a good balance of size, weight and battery life.
If your iPad doesn't meet your needs how can you claim it makes other devices that DO meet your needs obsolete?
I still want an iPad, but more as a cool toy than to fill any need. Oh, and I do not want an iPhone.
Of course you need other devices than the ipad (Score:2)
Thats because the iPad is not meant as a netbook replacement. It is built with a "desktop dependency" in mind. Lack of flash, USB ports, iTunes dependency, etc...
Sure it overlaps in many use cases of the netbook, plus the ipad is definitely cutting into netbook sales, but netbooks are definitely not the same thing and they will surely not be replaced by the ipad.
If all he wants is a powerful, featureful and capable tablet in that form factor, then wait for others to do more capable tablets where you will be
Yeah, totally wiped out my netbook... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yeah, totally wiped out my netbook... (Score:5, Funny)
What I really wanted was a digital picture frame I could poke...
And there we have the definitive description of an iPad. If I hadn't just finished my drink it would have been coming out of my nose.
Huh? (Score:2)
This article is so poorly written that I don't understand what the complaint is.
He apparently wants software and devices that all work perfectly, provide an awesome user experience, but with no corporations involved in making the devices or the software or any of the content. Or something. like that.
Is that it? If so, why is such a childish attitude considered worthy of anyone's time or attention?
word count (Score:3, Insightful)
Was someone a bit short on the word count, and decided that "web content that's inaccessible with his iPhone and iPad" was a direct replacement for 'Flash'?
Why is anyone still complaining about this? (Score:5, Insightful)
* And yes, I've heard all the FUD about how Apple's practices are going to tempt other manufacturers into doing the same thing they are. Give me a break.
people need to know (Score:4, Insightful)
There are, and always will be*, alternatives
For 20 years, we have been stuck with a near-monopoly on desktop operating systems, because of marketing and network effects. We don't want to repeat that experience, blindly sliding into an iOS monopoly for portable devices.
Apple spends hundreds of millions of dollars on marketing their devices every year, often lying and misrepresenting their products and their history. It is reasonable for geeks to present an opposing view so that buyers can make an informed decision, know what they are getting, and understand the consequences of their purchases.
Put your money where your mouth is by shutting up and buying something is.
Why then doesn't Apple "shut up" and stop marketing their products? Why do you think that all the information we should ever get about products should come from the PR and marketing departments of companies selling those products?
My argument in favor of "devolution" (Score:2, Interesting)
Most of the time, I argue in opposition of intentionally limited functionality. In most respects, I still do. For example, I don't want my ability to sync or transfer data hampered by any given interest. I don't want what is presently "basic functionality" (like copy and paste or saving attachments) to be held back either.
But devices that do too much of everything will find itself less capable of the single or few tasks that users really want. In previous comments, I mentioned that I finally dropped my
If a handheld computer is called an MP3 player now (Score:3)
Dude, you're comparing a smartphone to an MP3 player.
Then allow me to rephrase: Apple makes MP3 players with an app store that run iOS. Where are the MP3 players with an app store that run Android?
it's his fault! (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not saying that they are not great devices or whatever if you buy one you know what you are getting or should. If you don't it is your own fault. It's called supply and demand. Apple is suppling what people are demanding and even if it falls short in an area or two most people are happy with what they get.
I Bought an iPad Two Weeks Ago (Score:5, Interesting)
1. I'm going to Vegas. "Easy Vegas" app is good.
2. I'm going to Vegas and I'm going to watch movies on the flight.
3. Amplitube iPad Edition came out - and it's great.
4. Instant on. No need to boot to check weatheror news, or to look up something I'm curious about.
5. The Reuters app is awesome.
6. Camera connection kit deals properly with Nikon raw format.
7. The tools for photo management are really coming along beautifully. Photogene is a good tool for travel.
Since then I've discovered some new things.
1. The 10 hour battery life is both real, and awesome.
2. I have gone to a site that required flash exactly twice, and I found the same content elswehere in a format I could view.
3. I really like reading magazines on it (Maxim with Kaley Cuoco!)
4. On the most difficult setting, the Scrabble app kicks my ass.
5. I haven't turned my netbook on since I got it.
6. The screen gets dirty when I eat cheezies and surf porn.
7. There's a LOT of compatible porn.
8. I've been expecting to have to buy a wireless keyboard, but so far I haven't "needed" to.
Anybody want to buy a used netbook? It has crappy battery life and a screen that semi-sucks, but it has a keyboard.
Do I give a crap that a bunch of nerds online think that it's underpowered compared to stuff that's 18 months away? Not even slightly.
I'm as technical a guy as they come. My workdays are spent writing industrial scheduling and simulation software on Unix. But I'm past the age where I want to screw around with stuff when I get home. Give me something that works well and doesn't give me any grief.
Don't Forget The Clones (Score:3, Insightful)
The iPad clones will be out soon and some of them will have flash and will not have other restrictions. People will use the clones, Apple will make those other things available to compete or both.
"deliberate devolution" (Score:4, Interesting)
"That's what I don't like -- deliberate devolution."
That is what is going on with VOIP, wireless phones and texting replacing conversation over land lines.
Instead of a human voice in real time, you have a typed message. A step backwards.
With VOIP if your power or your computer goes out, you don't have phone service. Not so with a land line.
With VOIP and wireless calling, call quality has gone way, way down. Problem free phone conversations used to be taken for granted.
On the other hand
It is easier to send written information.
It is also easier to avoid "facing someone" by sending them a text or an email
You have the ability to communicate by phone in a number of places, not just at home, work or wherever there is a pay phone ( remember those? )
Making long distance calls in the US is now dirt cheap. Such calls used to be the subject of heated arguments after the bill came.
If the iPads get flash, or if the flash enabled clones make it, someone will be typing "remember when you couldn't watch a hulu.com laying down on your couch?", while pointing out some things that were lost with the vanishing of laptops.
Freedom from the tyranny of choice... (Score:4, Insightful)
Good devolution (Score:3, Interesting)
To go to an example more radical than the ipad, almost don't need to use my netbook since i have my N900. Have far smaller screen and keyboard, not as fast, and have less software available. But still, is not something to worry about carrying, is always just there, is good enough, and a desktop computer or a proper notebook fill most of the remaining needs. Is something wrong with the netbook? No, just appeared another option that gave some advantages, and could adjust the pattern of use that i was giving to it.
Oh noes...the geeks arent the focus group anymore (Score:5, Insightful)
This is the same whiney argument I hear from gamers who think the Wii is the devil. The slate computers that are coming out now are focused on the non technical and a certain segment of the geek community feels slighted. Many seem to be offended that in the end the lack of usb, memory card slots, camera and whatever features geeks cried about didn't really matter, couple that with the lack of a "real OS" being seen as a plus by the majority of people actually buying the devices and suddenly the "geek" is out of the support loop. Many geeks talk about their utopian society where everyone is technically adept and support requirements are minimal but very few actually want it.
There is no one to really blame but ourselves, just like hardcore gamers, our demands and expectations made us an unfavorable market, catering to the "casual" is less expensive, less demanding and far more profitable.
What the world really needs... (Score:3, Interesting)
Is the iPad. Too bad it came a long so late.
The problem is that 99% of the world doesn't need and doesn't want something that requires administration. A computer needs an administrator - I don't care whether it is Linux, Windows or OS X. An administrator is required to install software (correctly and only that which should be there) and to fix problems that crop up.
What the world really wants is an appliance that lets them use the Internet. Email, buying stuff, banking, searching for porn, whatever. Things that can easily be corrupted and taken over by malicious software should the user (uninformed, unknowing, etc.) can install thinking they are getting something nice. Like Weather Bug.
What the iPad presents is an appliance that you cannot install Weather Bug on which then reports back on every web site you connect to. And you cannot install some trojan that will help someone steal your money. You also can't install some botnet rootkit which then uses your computer to send spam and make money for some Russian mob folks. Now Apple may be letting some stuff through that they should not be - but it is all fixable.
It is not fixable with Linux, Windows or OS X. An administrator is required. With proper administration there is no virus problem with Windows and no problems with dependencies on Linux.
obsolete? Only to an Apple fanboy (Score:4, Interesting)
For multimedia, I prefer a netbook (I have an S101) for around the house or a motel room. The keyboard keeps it in one place in an angle suitable for viewing without having to add a stand or a docking device, and netbooks have far better performance than this generation of tablets. If I'm on foot, I'd rather get my content off a small smartphone, hanging a 7" or larger tablet off my belt is a stupid thing to do.
However, the real reason why "the netbook is not going away" is that not all of us are full-time passive consumers of content. Do you write papers for school? Do you create documents for an employer?
Would you rather type a bunch of pages on a real keyboard that does not take up screen real estate or on a virtual keyboard that takes up a third of the screen better used for document? I'm working on a patent application, and I frequently edit it via remote control from my netbook to the desktop where the file is. Speaking as an Android Tablet owner, I regard the idea of editing a 40+ page document on that tablet as a non-starter and creating one on a tablet makes a typewriter sound good.
The tablet will cut into netbook sales because the people who only want to websurf and run a few apps will buy it. But IMO, the "content-only" user is a lot less common than commonly believed.
The fanboys only want to believe that the netbook is going away because Apple doesn't make one. They're irrelevant, Steve Jobs' vision of a userbase solely composed of consumers of content created by major corporations doesn't fit the real world.
Did I pull a Rumpelstiltskin? (Score:3)
Wait a minute, when did the iphone kill-off both RIM and Palm, and when did the ifad get a keyboard and the ability to run the diverse range of software that netbooks are capable of using? Did I miss something? The iphone and ipad are great for some people, I guess, but a LOT of us have no real interest in them. They're like using a platinum-plated pocket watch with a built-in cover - they look kind of cool but are not as convenient or functional as some other alternatives.
In related "news," "Marco Arment tends to exaggerate and remember history in a way that is most flattering to his own point", points out one Slashdot user, adding "And he is a poopy pants." This is a direct quotation, so it must be true.
iPad is a companion to your main computer (Score:3, Interesting)
A lot of people have realized that they really don't need to haul around a desktop replacement laptop and that they really don't actually use all of the powerful apps on a laptop the majority of the time.
If you really need to use a desktop app, you can connect back to your home desktop using either VNC (OS X) or Remote desktop (windows) or to a corporate citrix farm. There are VNC viewers, and a citrix receiver for the iPad and I understand that other services like Logmein Ignition also have iPad apps.
Even with these remote connection apps readily available, most people will not use them often and are satisfied with native iPad apps and web apps like those from Google.
Many people have compared the iPad with the PADD from Star Trek and there is a great deal of similarity between them. Both represent a way to access information from a central computer and be able to view and edit some of that information while on the go. Neither the fictional device or the iPad was meant to replace the larger computer terminals that you have at your disposal.
Netbooks are a solution looking for a problem (Score:3, Insightful)
They are just smaller and "CHEAPER" laptops with screens so small and low res that the desktop OSes running on them feel cramped. Their keyboards are painful to use for people with larger hands and the CPU/GPU power limits them to little more than light web surfing and use of "web" apps like Google Office.
I look at a netbook and I don't see them offering anything new to the table and feel like people are investing in them because of a false sense of economy when you are getting a device even less powerful than a 2006 MBP.
The really crazy people are those who already had a laptop and bought a netbook in addition to having a desktop.
If you really "need" a full OS on the go, get a desktop replacement and have that as your sole computer or if you really don't need desktop apps all of the time, get an iPad for apps and mobile gaming and connect back to your PC or mac desktop with Logmein or some similar service and you will have a tablet/slate with an OS designed specifically for touch from the ground up.
iPads are popular because they are easy to start using whether you are a windows user or mac user or even a novice. If you search Youtube videos, you will find that they are so easy that even a toddler can use one.
I hope Windows never goes obsolete (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
+5 "No Shit!" ;)
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:So don't buy a #@^&ing iPad. (Score:4, Informative)
Actually Apple isn't a dominant player in any area is it? I think iTMS may be the is dominant player in legal music stores but that's about it.
The iPod and IPhone are dominant in mindshare of their respective arenas, at least in TV and American pop culture.
I don't think it's actually that dominant in actual market share, specially globally.
Almost everybody I know is using either Nokia, LG or Motorola with a few Samsung phones here and there, I only know two iPhone users (both smug bastards) and three Blackberry users (all stuck up bastards).
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:4, Insightful)
Let us know when your iPad can do all that. Heck, let us know when you can run Flash.
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:4, Insightful)
It won't because that's not what it's meant to do. If your needs call for multiple USB ports, twin internal drives with 640 GB of storage, then the iPad is NOT FOR YOU.
I could say "My truck provides a much better experience (than your economy car, for example). I can carry a thousand pounds of cargo or tow a big trailer. I can go off-road, drive through deep snow or mud and not get stuck." If those activities are what you do, then of course an economy car is not the right vehicle.
As always, it's a case of the right tool for the right job. Why is this simple fact lost on so many people? Is the desire to bash Apple so strong that it blocks rational thought? Is this the Reality Distortion Field's anti-Apple twin?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Does it weigh less than two pounds?
Yes
Can you just turn it off with a single button and toss it on the couch or chair without worrying about hard disk damage?
SSD, so yes.
How well does it work with just touching the screen as an input device.
Why would I want smudges all over my screen when I could type on a physical keyboard with tactile feedback and control it without tiring my arm?
No, you are comparing laptops to tablets, like comparing a Cessna 172 to a Boeing 737.
"Yea, but you can't fly from Anchorage to Portland nonstop with 137 people, so it's not really an airplane..."
No, its more like comparing a roller coaster to an airplane. You are in the air, and it's kinda cool but entirely useless, and in the end you cant choose where you're going and end up back where you started.
Yea, right now I'm on my laptop because I'm running BT and yep, my iPad won't BT, but since I've gotten my iPad it's used for about 85% of my casual surfing and my other laptop, the 17" gaming rig sits alone because I don't want 8 pounds on my lap.
Im Guessing those other 15% have flash?
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:4, Insightful)
This.
A netbook can do anything an ipad can do. It's cheaper. It's just about as portable.
And it is YOURS. You have root on it and can do whatever you bloody well please on it. It's a complete computer, with a modern multitasking O/S and the ability to do anything your desktop computer can do -- except slower.
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Guess which one weighs less per square inch of screen display :-).
Why turn it off? Just close the lid - suspend works fine under linux.
The drives have sensors rated for 300g - and *I* can replace them - who do you think added the second internal? It takes less than a minute.
I don't have to get fingerprints on the screen - I've got a touchpad and a FULL-SIZED keyboard (17" makes a big difference). And I can plug in an external keyboard and mouse if I want to - PLUS I have a Remote Control
My secondary
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Like I posted elsewhere, I have an iPad (through work) because I do accessibility work.
We are going to iPads because they are lighter to take out into the field than a laptop, and come with a good warranty, they are a laptop replacement in some areas.
I don't have an iPad for a web server/ftp server/irc server or USENET leech because I don't need those things running for when I do work.
Its the go to device for accessibly right now, can your Linux install claim that?
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/06/01/the-ipad-cou [tuaw.com]
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Just so you don't think I'm bashing it, I like the iPad. It would be an improvement for some categories of laptop users. For example, the touch panel provides a better user experience for web browsing (as long as the site has been designed to work well on iPad). The small size makes it less distracting at meetings. The small size, low weight, and robustness makes it great for watching movies on an airplane or in a car full of kids. And so on. Your arguments, however, are way too easy to shoot down.
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:5, Informative)
Actually. I suspect it's Nokia is #1 (Score:3, Interesting)
Maybe Android in the US.
The rest of the world on the other hand makes up 95% of the population.
Re:Too scared to say that the iPad sux, I guess .. (Score:5, Informative)
I think you are confusing market share with new phone sales. Market share is how much of the market is using a particular manufacturer's product. New sales is how many new customers in a certain, recent period bought a manufacturer's product. Last quarter, Android rocketed ahead of iOS in new sales, but it still doesn't even have half the market share, in the US or worldwide.
In the US, market share [macrumors.com] is:
RIM 35%
Apple 28%
Microsoft 15%
Android 13%
And while Apple's percentage of new sales did drop last quarter, they still had worldwide sales growth up 61% [canalys.com] for the quarter. Market share percentage fell because Android sales grew by 886% in the quarter. The point that Android sales are doing really well is true, but they're no where near #1 in market share yet.
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't get it because you aren't the target demographic. The socially challenged male in his basement with 12 computers (all of which have been stripped to the bare plastic at least twice) and his Gentoo compiling microwave oven doesn't need an iPad.
My 80 year old mother and apparently everyone else in her Assisted Living place are in the iPad demographic and they are falling all over themselves (actually not very hard to do at 80) trying to buy one.
Get over it, dude. Go take something apart.
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:5, Interesting)
There are tens (hundreds?) of millions of people out there that are interested in "content" in small chunks (call them the iPod People, which might be a clever analogy, or not). They want music, notes, books, letters to read, maps, phone calls, and a bunch of other little pieces of content. In a digital world, one device can do large subsets of those. Lots of people have recognized that potential; I have memos I wrote over a decade ago, describing the functions that would be attractively served by "Mike's brick-of-plastic portable computer". Jobs not only recognized the potential, but also had the means and the courage to risk a large company's future on that potential.
There are another (smaller) group of people, which includes myself, who need something that lets them create content as well. I need something that lets me write hundreds of pages of text per year, program, generate complex graphs, etc. A device that meets my needs can also do all the things the iPod People want, but not vice versa. Like many in this group, I'm somewhat ticked off that the iPod people got their devices first, but I'm trying to be patient and believe that I'll eventually get something suitable. What I'm not doing is whining that the iPod People would be better off if forced to use the kind of gadget I need.
Not Junk... Really (Score:3, Interesting)
I got one and its pretty darn good. Many reviewers agree with me. I use macs quite a bit but don't have an iphone. Its great, but far from improvement. Its has totally replaced my notebook for surfing, and checking emails at home. I take it with me and use it like a giant iphone for location based stuff (I'm a city dweller). The only thing against is that its not feasable to pull out and use while walking, but I guess thats what smart phones are for.
The ipad is really more of a consumer electronic devi
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For any place/purpose you could use an iPad, a netbook can do it. Additionally, there are things that the netbook can do that the iPad cannot.
The problem is not that for you technical capability is the only thing you are considering. Technically if I need to drive 500 miles, a beat-up 1978 truck will get me there. But I will enjoy the drive more in a luxury car. You are neglecting that user experience is important for many users. A simplified device appeals to them as they don't have to deal with things like files. Many PC users I know keep all their files on the desktop. Which device would these users prefer?
The other thing which you fail
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:5, Funny)
TV? It's junk. I'm sorry to say it. I had high hopes, but the thing is just an overpriced miniature theatre.
In my village, we watch the puppet shows. They have all the entertainment we need. The music is better that the noise on the TV. We listen to the elders for their wisdom. And we hear about outside events from travelers. All together, it costs less than half what a TV costs.
All this hype over these electronic devices mind boggling. I just don't get it.
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:4, Insightful)
Also, what if I don't care about the relative price of an iPad and a netbook? You know what's even cheaper than a netbook? Just using the computer I already have. What if saving a few dollars and running Windows or Linux aren't my goals?
What if I want to read web sites without sitting at a desk in front of a computer?
Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:5, Insightful)
I was in the market for a netbook, but I waited until the iPad came out to see what it was. You know what? It's really cool, but it doesn't meet my primary needs as well as a netbook. I often need to do things like commander whatever large monitor is available at someone else's house or workplace, plug it into my netbook, and edit a large spreadsheet. I also do a lot of typing, some with the machine on my lap, and the iPad just gets killed by netbooks. So I went with a Hackintosh Dell Mini 10v. For my needs, it kills the iPad. But I also recognize that my needs aren't everybody's needs, and I've played with the iPad, and for some things, it's a way better experience. Yes, netbooks can do nearly everything iPads do, plus much more, but iPads do certain things better. If those are the only thing you do...
So if you don't "get it," seriously, have you ever tried doing the thing the iPad's good at on an iPad? Because I don't see how you could try it and not enjoy it, it's really smooth. I mean, the iPhoto experience on the iPad just kills my netbook.
The "article" is an absurd troll. The popularity of the iPad is not going to destroy the netbook category. Macs and iPhones are both selling really well too, but no one's complaining that they're about to destroy all other phones or computers. iPads for some, netbooks for others. Get what you want, nothing to see here.
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If your argument is that an iPad is good for sitting on the couch wasting your life, then I can both "get it" and "loathe it". Isn't life grand?
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I have an ipad and a macbook pro. The latter is far more powerful than the ipad, does flash, etc.
The ipad is far more convenient to use. The macbook pro (a fast, loaded, 17" dual-core model) does a lot of sitting around these days. Because the apps on the ipad are truly excellent, and the touchscreen, as it turns out, is a lovely and very direct way to interact with the apps. As far as capability goes, you kno
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It's funny, because when netbooks first appeared, they came with Linux pre-loaded, and there were high hopes that ordinary users would buy them for light use, such as web browsing and email on the go. Nowadays, you'll struggle to find a netbook that doesn't come with Window (XP or 7 Starter) preloaded, because consumers saw it as a computer and wanted to do computery things with it.
Fast forward to today, and the geeks are crying foul because Apple is pitching their iPad to consumers using the exact same ta
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Re:iPad? Seriously? (Score:5, Interesting)
Hilariously I was exactly the opposite of this. I never even considered getting and iPad, as I saw no possible use i would have for it, and i had absolutely no desire to own one. I'm not even in the market for a computer, and I hate laptops.
2 weeks ago i was in a store and had an opportunity to use an iPad for a little while. I was blown away. It was so intuitive, so easy to use and so *pleasant* to use. I didnt have to fiddle with a little trackpad or mouse nubby thingy. I didnt have to find some annoying way to position it on my lap without burning my balls or sitting in some strange uncomfortable position to give a flat surface for it. It just sat in my hands, and i pointed at what i wanted.
The next day I bought one, and now i sit in the living room with the family to check my email and browse website, even play games. I stopped playing wow because of the iPad. I'm more social, play with my daughter more (she presses the button to turn it off and then starts playing her own games while I'm reading slashdot lol), and am generally extremely satisfied with it. Not only do I like it better than netbooks, but i like it better than desktops for casual usage.
At work of course i still use a 30" monitor and 8 core machine, with a real keyboard :)
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They already exist. A friend showed me one a couple of weeks ago (I'm sorry, I can't remember the brand, as it was far from prominent on the box) that had been brought back from Singapore.
I liked the fact that it is possible to use the thing as a *nix terminal, with the usual shell commands. Also, I liked the fact that its network interface is via WiFi rather than a paid mobile connection plan. I expect Mr. Jobs might disagree with my priorities, but wha
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This whole argument is ridiculous. Does he think the entire industry will just give up and stop making anything similar to a netbook post-iPad? I have zero doubt there will be android tablet devices, and probably some tablets that run an OS with a more desktop oriented flavor.
These devices don't happen in a vacuum. If there is a need, there is a market.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Right, the reason the netbook is "obsolete" to Mr. Weiner is he switched to an Ipad. Hey Dave, just don't switch. Stick with your netbook.
Re:Wait for Google then... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem we see in all these opinion-pieces is that they look at the issue from the geek point of view. If a whole boatload of people are buying the iPad instead of a netbook it's probably because it works for them. Yes, people are stupid (No post is truly good if it's not condescending), but still - the iPad does what they need. :) ). My dad has a full set of tools and about 20 different screwdrivers, because that's what he needs. Same thing with the iPad and other Apple hardware. They all cater for the average user not the ubergeek.
For us geeks there are other alternatives, but does not mean there is a "deliberate degeneration of the UI". If anything, the iOS brought a UI that was more appealing to the average Joe.
Just as in any profession, there are different levels of tools for different levels of users. I have in my house one simple screwdriver and it's enough for all my needs (opening the computer case and changing cards
Re:Wait for Google then... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not even the geek perspective, it;s the apple geek perspective.
As a FOSS geek I'm not interested in apple and have identified a bunch of really nice looking alternatives to the iPad. It's just a shame none of them seem to quite make it to market!
The ubergeek wouldn't have bought an iPad and then bitched about things he knew would happen, or would be reverse engineering it to run linux.
`iPad alternatives' (Score:4, Informative)
As a FOSS geek I'm not interested in apple and have identified a bunch of really nice looking alternatives to the iPad. It's just a shame none of them seem to quite make it to market!
Eh, there were several `iPad alternatives' on the market before the iPad even existed.
Archos [archos.com] was selling their Android tablets 7 months before the iPad [pocketables.net], and Archos first published an `actual Linux' firmware [archos.com] (using OpenEmbedded) and started contributing to upstream [mail-archive.com] some 4 months before the iPad hit the market [slashdot.org].
AlwaysInnovating started selling Touchbook [alwaysinnovating.com] beta units a month before Archos introduced their tablets--8 months before the iPad came to market.
And there were/are numerous others, too. I'm not sure whether it makes sense to compare the Nokia N-series tablets, since they're smaller, but they've been on the market for *years*, and they're not the end of the list.
Of course, that's not even counting the `iPad alternatives' that came to market *after* the iPad.
I'm having trouble understanding your "shame none of them seem to quite make it to market" comment--and even more trouble making sense out of others' comments to the effect of `if only there were any other tablet computers other than the iPad'....
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
We have a machine at work that cuts letters and designs and stuff out of rolls of adhesive vinyl for making signs, etc.
It is connected to a Win95 machine via serial cable.
It works terrific and has done so for ten years.
There's more to it than price (Score:3, Insightful)
Why is the iPad consistently compared to netbooks, when it is priced like a notebook
Because it is designed for the same use as the original netbook concept: a small, stripped-down portable device for media playback, web browsing, casual gaming, email and light note-taking, aimed at people who probably already had access to a full-featured PC.
...but the original netbooks sucked at that because they were made from shite remaindered PC components, drank batteries and tried to run off-the-shelf applications designed for more powerful computers with full-size screens, mice and keyboards. Even