PayPal Demos Auto-Debit Gumball Machine 124
ForgedArtificer writes "At their recent developers conference in San Diego, CA, PayPal unveiled a proof-of-concept gumball machine that would instantly pay for a gumball through a PayPal account using a smart phone and a QR code, sending a confirmation of the purchase through Twitter. Ok, maybe we all don't really care if we can get a gumball without a quarter, but the possibilities for this technology are endless."
endless possibilities (Score:3, Funny)
"but the possibilities for this technology are endless."
Seems Slashdot editors can't even seem to spell 'beginningless'
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I thought you paid for police chases afterwards.
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People stupid enough to trust paypal with their record of appalling behaviour deserve what they get.
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...with their record of appalling behaviour...
Could you please elaborate on these allegations?
For your protection, (Score:5, Informative)
Paypal has withheld your gummy bear for 180 days. Because you accessed the gummy bear from a location other than your usual location, we will also hold your $.25 while our anti-fraud department investigates.
To increase trust in the Paypal community, verify your account. To verify, fax a recent utility bill, send your debit card PIN and a half-chewn gummy bear as a DNA sample.
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The minimum PayPal fee is more than the cost of the gumball so the owner of the machine looses money with every one sold.
The gumball would also have to be mailed to you with proof of delivery otherwise you could claim it never arrived. Any transaction where the receiver collects the item in person cannot safely be paid for with PayPal because the only evidence they accept as proof that the buyer has the item is a postal tracking number with signature on delivery. Even then the buyer could return it for bein
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Hehe, caught me. "chewn" is a word you'll find in the Urban Dictionary [urbandictionary.com] as opposed to Wiktionary [wiktionary.org].
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"but the possibilities for this technology are endless."
The example given in the article is crap: "Imagine that you read the first chapter of a book at a friend's house and would like to buy it to read the rest. Pull out your phone and with two quick taps a copy is being shipped to you through Amazon."
You can already do this, books have barcodes printed on them! I've bought CDs on Amazon while at a friend's house doing this.
I don't think there are any more possibilities than my contactless credit card provides, except that this is on a phone, but in Japan (and H
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Twitter (Score:5, Funny)
My wife is looking forward to when the local strip club starts using this technology. Privacy be damned.
Killer App (Score:1)
My wife is looking forward to when the local strip club starts using this technology. Privacy be damned.
...but it would be a great application for a lilypad arduino. (http://www.arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardLilyPad)
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Banking regulations. (Score:3, Insightful)
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Re:Banking regulations. (Score:5, Informative)
Depending on where you are. From your link:
https://www.paypal.com/uk/
"PayPal was granted a bank license with the Luxembourg bank authority."
"PayPal Luxembourg will be regulated to the same standard as all major European banks. Banking laws and standards in the European Union ensure that customers are just as protected by a Luxembourg bank as by a UK, French, or German bank."
Not a lot of good outside the EU.
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Well how else are they going to raid money from people for 'infractions'.
Re:Banking regulations. (Score:4, Informative)
Yep. Everywhere else they are entirely unregulated, and they will definitely want it to stay that way for as long as they can get away with it.
Well, not exactly unregulated, but unless you're specific about what sort of regulations you feel are missing, the rest of this is purely pedantic. It's much more of a clusterfuck than that. For instance, I count 42 states (well, 41 + a District) here [paypal-media.com]. As a former employee of PayPal's AML Compliance department, I can tell you that paypal is regulated (AML/CTF - not consumer protection regulations which is probably what you're bitching about) in the US (FinCEN), Canada (FinTRAC), Australia (AusTRAC), China (HK Police) the EU (CSSF) and anywhere outside of that in Singapore (MAS). A year ago when I left, there was talk of adding legal entities in 4 or 5 other countries, primarily in Asia and Latin America.
To the GP's point about why PayPal is not a bank (in the US anyhow), is that US banks issue credit and US money service businesses merely move money. I would certainly concede that the Bill Me Later unit of PayPal is operates purely on the technicality of the laws and/or regulations that separate banks from MSBs (BML makes a decision on whether to extend credit, then a bank issues the credit with the understanding that BML will buy the debt a few days later). There was often talk of becoming a bank, or at least chartering a subsidiary bank in order to allow the credit issuing to move completely in house. Ebay divesting Skype was supposedly a part of that plan, although I never understood why, nor can I say whether PayPal is any closer to becoming (or more likely starting) a bank. More of what PayPal does falls under the EU's legal definition of a bank, so PayPal is a bank there.
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Once I sold an item via ebay to someone in Italy, even though I specified that my sale would only be to US customers, because even though his listed address with ebay was in Italy, his PayPal address was in California, and ebay went with that. WTF??? What if I was selling something t
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Even in the EU it isn't that much help. For example in the UK when there is fraud on an account the bank has to prove that the customer was negligent or absorb the cost of putting it right themselves. Some banks tried to weasle out of it by claiming things like Chip & Pin made fraud impossible unless the customer gave away their PIN but the regulator made it very clear that was not the case.
PayPal on the other hand assume you are guilty until you can prove otherwise.
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"PayPal Luxembourg will be regulated to the same standard as all major European banks. Banking laws and standards in the European Union ensure that customers are just as protected by a Luxembourg bank as by a UK, French, or German bank."
Not a lot of good outside the EU.
Not any good here either. They still do things like blocking access to funds for a any amount of time they want, demand lots of documentation at any time. In Spain for example they don't have a contact phone, physical address, or any place to go with the documentation to. In order to protect themselves about possible fraud they want you to send so much documentation that anyone that can get it (paypal employee, mailman whatever) can easily open bank accounts, credit cards, etc on your name.
Anyway, the
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Paypal however takes the position that in the middle they own the money and can do with it what they like. They can pass in on as intended or they can refund it back or secret o
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e.g. Last year, I needed a new bulb for my DLP flat panel TV. Everywhere else, it was $3-4-500. Found several, new(?) on eBay for $100. The only payment allowed/accepted was PayPal. No way I'm linking PayPal to an actual account of mine that has actual money/credit. So...go to the local drugstore, buy a prepaid card, put enough money in it to cover, link that card to a PayPal acct....then actually buy the thing. PITA, espe
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eBay sellers can accept other forms of payment. The catch is, only the potential buyer can bring up the subject. You may not be able to mention in your listings that you accept any forms other than PayPal, but there is nothing stopping you from informing the buyers of what eBay's policies actually allow. You just have to be able to word it so that you are not actually soliciting other forms of payment.
Then again, I don't think eBay is cracking down too hard on alternate payments anyway, because I do not
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I'm amazed anyone uses it unless they are forced to by eBay because not only are the fees very high but the amount of fraud that takes places is too.
Fraud on PayPal is common because the dispute resolution system is flawed and makes it too easy for people to make bogus claims. Say you buy something but the seller sends it by normal post instead of getting a signature on delivery. You can claim you never got and there is pretty much nothing they can do to counter your claim so you will get your money back. I
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The fees aren't that high - they're in line with a lot of other merchant accounts. And Paypal's so far the ONLY way for a small time seller to accept a credit card, which is the universal online payment mechanism. It's why Paypal and eBay are so closely tied together - they need each other. If you're selling some old junk you found in your attic, getting a merc
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The fees aren't that high - they're in line with a lot of other merchant accounts. And Paypal's so far the ONLY way for a small time seller to accept a credit card, which is the universal online payment mechanism.
I am a small time seller and I use Google Checkout. It is open to individuals and free to sign up to. The fees are about 1/4 those of PayPal.
You can use it in a variety of ways including emailed invoices, simply "buy now" buttons, Google's own shopping cart or any number of others.
It's why Paypal and eBay are so closely tied together - they need each other.
No, it's because eBay owns PayPal so they refuse to allow any competing systems.
how come there's no alternative to Paypal? If I want to sell my one item online, I'd like to accept credit cards, yet no one is offering me a small-use merchant account other than Paypal. Because if you can't accept a credit card online, you can't really be an online store. Gift cards maybe, but unless you're big enough to have people stocking them, same issue. Google Checkout's just a glorified merchant account, too - unless you're a business, you can't really have a checkout account.
Clearly you know nothing about Google Checkout because everything you just said is wrong. It isn't a merchant account at all, it is in fact fairly sim
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One could say the same about Slashdot, yet here you are.
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Meh, my browser signs in for me. Vimperator macros ftw.
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Would it make a difference to your snooty anonymous ass if I said it was for my 61" PC monitor? Because that's what it's mostly used for.
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Why do you assume he cares only about himself, and not about other people who might not know about their practices?
That's like saying Madoff shouldn't be arrested, as long as you know you shouldn't put your money there.
(Working) regulation sets a minimum standard below which we as a society don't want business to work. People shouldn't have to be guinea pigs to find out about such practices.
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Simple: their customer service is WAY more self serving than that of any real bank!
My credit card doesn't run out of batteries (Score:4, Insightful)
A: Because it disrupts the flow of a message (Score:5, Insightful)
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The title is not the beginning of the first paragraph.
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Government will never enact legislation that would inhibit cash bribes.
You can execute bribes in 25 cent increments? Cue the two bit _____ jokes.
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Indeed. My first thought when reading the summary was "how is this any different from swiping an EFTPOS card?". Obviously it's using a phone instead of a card, but the net result is the same.
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how is this any different from swiping an EFTPOS card?
PayPal gets it's 1% or whatever the current rate is.
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And how is this different from what people in Japan and parts of Europe has been doing things for a decade now, paying for small purchases from machines with their mobile phones, whether it be soda dispensers, parking fees, or fags.
This is news, how? Except that you jump through hoops to pay through Paypal instead of simply getting it charged to your next phone bill?
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Actually, I'm pretty sure EFTPOS does cost the merchant, but it's a small flat fee per transaction (I think something on the order of 10c), rather than a percentage of the sale that a credit card company charges. This is why most merchants do have a minimum EFTPOS transaction amount (often $5 or $10).
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Holding US currency is essentially the same as giving the Federal Reserve an interest free loan
It is but then holding money in your paypal account is essentially the same as giving paypal an interest free loan and many accounts at banks (particularly business current accounts) also pay negligible interest.
In addition it is nice and easy for any thief to steal.
On the other hand the money at risk is limited to the ammount of cash you have on-hand. With a credit or debit card the ammount of money at risk can b
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can be much less.
That should have said can be much greater
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On the other hand the money at risk is limited to the ammount of cash you have on-hand. With a credit or debit card the ammount of money at risk can be much less.
Not so if you have a card that requires a pin and will not work without a pin.
Depending on your local laws you may not personally be liable for that theft but someone's got to pay for it
True, but this assumes fraud actually takes place. With EFTPOS (which is different to Credit) a pin is required and the card will stop working after (3?) incorrect attempts. It is quite hard to find out what your pin is if you actually take care to cover the terminal when you enter it.
it takes much longer to count and hand out change than most electronic transactions
I have noticed the same with Chip and Pin, but EFTPOS is probably twice as quick, if not more. After swiping the card I can enter my pin almost inst
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I have noticed the same with Chip and Pin, but EFTPOS is probably twice as quick, if not more. After swiping the card I can enter my pin almost instantly (unlike with Chip and Pin) and after entering a pin it usually takes about 2 seconds for the transaction to go through, during which I can be placing my card back in my wallet.
EMV (Chip + PIN) cards have a microchip which performs encryption (a key is unlocked with the PIN and a key on the terminal), which is much slower then reading some numbers. It looks like NZ might be upgrading [paymark.co.nz].
Retailers don't have to use the chip, although almost all do as it reduces their liability (they aren't liable if a PIN is used and the card stolen). The only one I've found that doesn't is a branch of McDonald's. There I just swiped the card, and within a second it was "OK". The time saving is eviden
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I forgot to mention: here contactless cards allow payments of under £15 to be made quickly without a PIN.
Visa's version. [visa.co.uk].
Last time I looked the only places you could use the cards were big coffee shops, now it seems loads of places have them. They should advertise them better!
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Not so if you have a card that requires a pin and will not work without a pin.
Most cards have the fall back option of a signature (a lot of countries require this for disability discrimination reasons, not everyone can operate the keypads). Theoretically that should be reasonably secure, although anecdotally I've noticed these days they rarely check or care if the signature on the card matches the one you give them (I know this from personal experience as my own signature seems to look different every time I write it, they generally glance at it and process the payment anyway - I hav
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>\
Overall cash isn't perfect but so far all of the alternatives like to pile on fees and hassles such that for small transactions they aren't reasonable.
I disagree entirely! I have tens of thousands of dollars stuffed under my mattress!
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm feeling rather tired. I think I'll have a smoke before I fall asleep.
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Here in Finland parking meters take credit cards just fine. I can pay minimum of 20 cents. Why wouldn't it be possible?
Of course, even if there's a 10c fee it's probably still cheaper than paying someone to collect the money from loads of parking meters and maintain the coin detection mechanisms.
Parking meters with cash can also be a target for criminals.
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They already solved this a long time ago, you don't need any power in your phone to make a payment. PIN verification can be done at point of sale using the merchants terminal.
Please don't think that your misunderstanding of the very basics of mobile NFC payments is validated by the moderators who also appear to misunderstand the very basics of mobile NFC payments.
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Slot machine?
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Gambling is a tax on people bad at math.
Whereas for those who are good at maths it can be quite lucrative [wikipedia.org].
of course (Score:2, Funny)
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Only a 4% fee? Are you sure? No 'small-value fee'? Or 'QR-code-usage surcharge'?
Here come the overdrafts (Score:3, Insightful)
Wonderful. Since Paypal is linked to checking accounts now you can expect that should a hold be placed on a check you deposit or if there's a bank error you'll be in for a $33.05 gumball.
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Never link your "real" bank account to Paypal. Only ever link a transactional account that you only put the amount of money in that you want to transfer to Paypal, or clear it to your real account when you withdraw from Paypal.
It's sad that you have to do this, though. Once you give Paypal your bank account info, it has total access to your money.
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Didn't know about this, been complaining for years. I may need to have a word with my friendly banker.
Endless? (Score:2)
...endless stupidity (Score:4, Insightful)
So let's see. The gumball is a simple sphere that cost a penny to produce, and was produced in a batch of thousands. The gumball machine -- read dispensor -- cost ten dollars to produce, adn was produced in a batch of hundreds. The consumer is standing not twelve inches away from a needless and insignificant candy treat.
The perfect solution is not:
a more expensive dispensor, more competant consumer, a mobile phone, a fancy barcode -- read smart phone -- a web-site -- read web browser -- a privacy policy -- actually four -- Internet infrastructure, cellular infrastructure, a phone plan, a data plan, customer service, tech support, a collections agency, anti-fraud measures, and a PIN.
The perfect solution is a hammer. The quarter was already a nuissance. This is just stupid.
Oh yeah, and a bank account. How silly of me.
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It's not proof of concept. It's a fun sunday tinkering in the basement.
Try to count the number of things you could do with that sort of concept -- actually. Then think about how many of those things would be better off as a result. Odds are, it's very close to none.
People like to do such things -- link together a dozen systems to show how cool things can be when you link together a bunch of systems. And it is really cool -- it's like art. Entertaining and totally useless.
It's almost never better to lin
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I know it's completely off-topic, but this is at least the 4th thread today where basements come out at a certain point. Is it Basement Day somewhere?
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Be sure to only purchase one gumball and wait. it may take up to 2 minutes to dispense your gumball.
Your phone is now locked until the transaction completes.
Technology is already used in Japan (Score:3, Informative)
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In Tokyo you can also use train passes to pay at vending machines and at department stores near the train station. Seems really high tech until you realise that it's just another ad-hoc solution to the fundamental problem of crappy electronic payment services.
If you want somewhere to be jealous of take a look at somewhere
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You could be describing Portugal. The ATM/debit card system is actually rather nice here.
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Why not challenge-response? (Score:4, Interesting)
A more interesting type of system would use a QR code challenge-response. A small screen on the gumball machine, or at the supermarket checkout flashes a QR code. You point your phone camera at it and details of the transaction come up on the screen. If you hit "confirm", your private key is used to sign the transaction and produce a response QR code which appears on your screen and is read back by the merchant.
This way, your phone doesn't need to connect back to the payment gateway provider at all. This is an advantage if there is bad reception inside the store, or your provider is having a bad day, or your pre-paid plan ran out, or you only have an iPod and not a smart phone. Banks could probably even produce dedicated devices that performed only this function and provide them to customers.
This gives me an idea for a T-shirt (Score:2)
"I just gave PayPal access to my bank account, and all I have to show for it is a stupid piece of gum*."
Then, in small print:
"* I chose to pay cash for this T-shirt."
Why is Twitter involved? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why run this through Twitter? If the server wants to send an SMS message, it should just send an SMS message using an SMS gateway. Why package it as a "tweet?"
(I suspect why. So they can spam you. It's illegal to send unsolicited commercial SMS messages in the US. If PayPal makes you "follow" them on Twitter to get transaction confirmations, they can then send you ads, too.)
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Yup, that'd be my guess too.
SMS is old hat Granddad, get with the new twitter/mash-up/facebook party. ;)
Stay away ... (Score:2)
... from the 'Prophylactics' brand machines. Their chewing gum tastes like rubber.
The possibilities for the technology... (Score:2, Interesting)
I like many people here will avoid PayPal like the plague if I can. So let's take paypal, add the privacy issues of Twitter, and the insecurities of being able to deduct money without requiring a passcode that is immune to someone stealing my mobile phone. I think people who use this kind of payment system deserve whatever they get.
Actually here's silently hoping that these are rolled out everywhere, a hacker gets access to a few accounts and rips people
Already have this here (Score:1, Interesting)
We already have something similar here in Finland. We have some Cola vending machines that you call with your cellphone which in turn is some sort of service number that charges the amount for whatever drink you want onto your cellular bill. Really handy no cash needed. Although in comparison to the article this is somewhat different but almost the same. Things like this really take off here since _a lot_ of people here basically live a cash free life.
We already have that technology! (Score:4, Interesting)
Why? (Score:1)
I've been trying to avoid posting on my own story, but I think I do have to clarify a statement I made, from what I've seen here.
Yes, you're all absolutely right that nobody really wants PayPal to be the ones in charge of this, first off. Never said we did.
Beyond that, though... I think there's a serious point that everyone is missing, perhaps just because PayPal was what a lot of people focused on.
People are mentioning credit cards, debit cards, EFTPOS... and yes, they are all capable of doing much of wha
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I don't exactly hold an economics degree, but I'm still fascinated to see where this all leads.
Sounds to me there's money to be made wearing QR-coded T-shirts around photogenic tourist sites.
Photobombing for fun and profit!
Venue (Score:1)
PayPal Innovate conference was in San Jose, not San Diego.
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Have you never seen a movie, or been passed out drunk while your friend makes a mold of your thumb?