Russian Lie Detector ATM 95
smitty777 writes "Apparently the Russians are starting to add lie detectors to their ATMs in an attempt to prevent identity theft and bad withdraws. 'Consumers with no previous relationship with the bank could talk to the machine to apply for a credit card, with no human intervention required on the bank’s end. The machine scans a passport, records fingerprints and takes a three-dimensional scan for facial recognition. And it uses voice-analysis software to help assess whether the person is truthfully answering questions that include “Are you employed?” and “At this moment, do you have any other outstanding loans?”'"
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Voice recognition of lies doesn't work at all. So it seems these bankers have fallen prey to a kind of ATM ripoff before they even deployed these ATMs.
Re:vodka (Score:4, Funny)
But the software told them the salesmen weren't lying!
Re:vodka (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:vodka (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, no. Voice recognition works fairly OK with Russian language.
For instance, I'm using it on my phone to do voice search. The last search was "The Sword of Damocles" (I wanted to read the legend which gave rise to this expression), it's pronounced "Damoclov mech" in Russian and Google understood it just fine. Try that in English now - it just doesn't work.
I can also use voice recognition to dictate large texts. Good recognition engine produces near perfect output.
That's what you get if you use a language with non-crazy spelling. Additionally, grammar cases in Russian seem to work as error correction codes.
Voice-based lie detection, though, definitely does not work.
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And even if voice-based lie detection did work, who would stop people from recording their responses to questions such as “Are you broke?” and replaying them as answers to the ATM?
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No, you have to keep a minimum alcohol level in your system when you're russian and it's dangerous to go bellow a certain level.
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Indeed. How do you think the Cuban missile crisis happened in the first place?
Shirley, they can't be serious (Score:1)
What the fuck is this supposed to do? How is this any better than hiring bank staff?
In Soviet Russia, Bank stael
Re:Shirley, they can't be serious (Score:4, Interesting)
And don't call me Shirley!
(I am nothing like her.)
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Of course my dad's name is Illya. Just call me Illytch.; Vladymir Illytch.
I am not drunk; I paid a lot of money to learn to walk like this.
--
In Soviet Russia, regular expressions don't make it across the road.
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Application rejected: you are Guy Fawkes.
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Really?
All you need is
A> A knife
B> A gun
Demand the person talk calmly and normally or you'd have to hurt them. You now have force someone else to apply for a credit card which you'll use!
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If you're willing to threaten someone with a gun or a knife, what do you need the ATM for?
I've used the latest Russian ATMs. (Score:5, Interesting)
Sberbank has some of the most advanced ATMs in the world now and it's mostly because of the extremely long ques. They're really advanced now, you can pay all sorts of bills from almost any company at them, gas bills, phone, internet, mobile, water, heating, taxes, etc, if for example you have a gas bill it will scan the barcode and then you just insert the money so it's connected to the billing systems of most major utility/service providers.
The main reason for these new lie detector tests is Russian people predominantly being drunk liars (but not as bad as chechens who will murder you for no reason at all) are more likely to end up dead or to take the money and dissapear off the map and it's hard to track down every worthless moron, especially when doing so may cost more than the loan is worth and it's also very likely that the money is gone and they have no assets to seize.
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You insert the money? Don't you have bank accounts in Russia?
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It's mostly a cash-based economy. Only larger companies in Moscow/St Petersburg are giving registered work, most people get paid cash in hand.
Cue those "In Russia jokes" (Score:1)
In Russia, ATM withdraw money from the customers.
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We have ATMs that can accept deposits in the UK too- but we also have ones that don't. It'd be interesting if that story is true as it would imply taht all Japanese ATMs accept cash deposits (so an exception is unheard of, tripping up the teacher).
In the UK, we have some super-clever ATMs that can do almost anything (cash deposits, cheque deposits, online account management, savings book printing, etc.), but they do tend to only be on branch premises- the ones that you see scattered all over the place tend
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ATMs there have accepted cash for a long time.
I've been using US ATMs for 20+ years, and in my experience, they've always accepted cash deposits. In the early days, you did have to put your deposit in an envelope (regardless if it was cash or check)--the ATM didn't actually do anything with the deposit except store it securely until the bank teller could actually make the deposit. However, the instructions were very clear about the envelope requirement: text instructions on-screen (this was before the fancy GUI ATMs), a picture of an envelope by the de
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Erm... If you guys are getting rid of your ATMs in exchange for internet transactions, how are those same ATMs more advanced?
It seems to me that online transactions should be considered a new transaction method, not an "advanced ATM"... Maby when your computer can print(and accept) physical, legal money...
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Cash only (Score:2)
However, there is not much need for physical money. Some people still use it (old people, people that can't have cards...), but almost everyone pays using cards.
Let me list a few kinds of merchants in my home town that accept currency but not cards:
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I have never in my life paid a bill other than through the web interface of a bank. In fact, I don't even know how you do it otherwise.
I have asked my bank about what they can do for me if I want to pay things with checks, though (if I can find someone who will accept it). At first they didn't understand me; then they just chuckled and told me that they don't do that stuff anymore.
I'm born in 1983.
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Are you in the US? If so, checks are still used for a lot of stuff (bills, a lot of places require a Voided check for certain things, etc)
Not all renters have a way to pay online, so you use a check for your monthly apartment rent...
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Unfortunately, the state of electronic money in the US is rather sad.
First of all according to the survey by the Census Bureau 7.7% of US households do not have a bank account at all! Up to 25% of the population lives paycheck-to-paycheck, utilizing the services of Pawn Shops, non-bank check-cashing services, or payday loans (legal loan sharks).
Cash is accepted virtually everywhere. Paper Checks are also widely accepted, although are considered a bit risky by the merchants, more because of the likelihood of
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Sounds great in theory but having been bitten twice now by companies incorrectly double or treble billing me I no longer allow anyone to automatically debit from my account. Much safer to log on to a suppliers payment portal every month and manually make a payment using my debit card.
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Sounds great in theory but having been bitten twice now by companies incorrectly double or treble billing me I no longer allow anyone to automatically debit from my account. Much safer to log on to a suppliers payment portal every month and manually make a payment using my debit card.
Still not very safe. If you're going to pay a bill from your personal account, at least here in the U.S., don't do it using an ACH debit. Log on to your bank's site and have the bank send the money. The danger in the U.S. system is that once a direct debit has been accepted from a given payee, it will always be. That's dangerous, and not just from criminal activity. As you say, mistakes get made. It's a lot harder for a mistake like that to happen if you decide how much money to send from your account, rath
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I also have debit&credit (VISA) card, it's directly connected to my main account. It's bank and card company that is responsible for double chargin, scamming and other things like that long as i use my card as is said in contract (keep card PIN hidden, if
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Why would my electric company overcharge me and say that they won't give my money back?
You're far too trusting, or maybe you've just been lucky. Tell you what, I'll give you a few examples of why I'm a little bit gun shy when dealing with any kind of direct access to my accounts. Remember, possession is nine-tenths of the law, and once your account has been drained, even by mistake, it's not necessarily a simple matter to get it back. It really is not.
I once had a cell phone carrier (who shall rename nameless, but have the words "One" and "Cellular" in their name) that charged me over $3,0
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This is not what an ATM is for. It should just be a machine where you put your card, input the amount of cash you want, get your cash and go.
Doing anything else just causes queues and annoyances.
Pay your bills on the Internet like normal people. Or better yet use automatic debit so that you don't have to waste time taking care of such things.
Does it test if you're drunk? (Score:1)
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In Soviet Russia ATM credits post colonial Africa with you.
Unreliable. (Score:5, Informative)
Can this machine tell if I am lying?
Polygraph machines are not lie detectors. What they are are stress detectors. And if you know that little fact you need not be stressed when you are dealing with one. Here is a summary of a polygraph machine's reliability: here [wikipedia.org].
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also, russia: where shit like this can be sold to someone, as they've been in a media/culture vacuum for so long. they haven't had real public fails of how it works. btw props for the deus ex sig.
What's your favorite color? (Score:2)
No, no, red!
(customer ejected from ATM) Beeeeewwwwwhhhh!
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Well, this is even worse than a polygraph. While a polygraph detects stress, it's not even clear what (if anything) this machine measures. Read Speech-based lie detection in Russia [upenn.edu].
Is this the proper time for this meme? (Score:2)
'In Soviet Russia, ATM watches YOU.'?
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Mmmm quality Universal Electronic Card with Moscow residence.
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Ouch (Score:2)
ATM with a built-in lie detector?
Put one of those near Capiton Hill and it will short out within minutes.
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Put one of those near Capiton Hill and it will short out within minutes.
Must be all those capiton particles.
Well, it sounds like a particle...
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First you have to build something that can actually be called a "lie detector" without the mandatory use of scare quotes. Personally, I suspect that if you installed one near Capital Hill, it would simply prove to be even less reliable than your normal, completely-unreliable "lie detector" since politicians are such expert liars!
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In b4 grammar nazis: yes, I meant to type "Capitol Hill"; in my defense, I was only one letter off, just like the original poster. :)
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On capital hill, lie detectors can be even simpler than usual and 100% accurate. You just have to connect the red lie light to a switch that detects mouth movement and disconnect the green truth light.
ATM (Score:1)
Ob (Score:2)
What could possibly go wrong?
Then again, this is Russia we're talking about. So a more relevant question might be "what could possibly go more wrong than it already is", to which the answer is "not much".
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The bank could fail and then the American taxpayer would have to bail it out? ...
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You do realise Russia isn't in the US right? :)
But I guess U.S. banks also do business in Russia.
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The US Fed helps as Ron Paul (R) found "88% of overall discount window lending went to foreign banks, and nearly 100% of the New York Fed's discount window lending went to foreign banks"
http://www.examiner.com/finance-examiner-in-national/ron-paul-shows-how-the-fed-helped-create-euro-crisis-through-foreign-bank-loans [examiner.com]
We are being Conditioned (Score:1)
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I am the one with the money.
No, you really aren't.
He isn't? The why do big corporations spend so much of their money on advertising in an effort to get it away from him?
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Psychopaths rejoice! (Score:5, Insightful)
Psychopaths have zero fear or stress when they tell a lie. (They are otherwise rather fearless - but I won't go into details now.) These ATM machines are wide open for them to pick them apart.
Re:Psychopaths rejoice! (Score:5, Insightful)
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Luckily for police, the vast majority of criminals aren't the cool-headed masterminds you see in Travolta movies. They're opportunists without much foresight.
other way around (Score:3)
While those ATMs are getting more and more sophisticated at detecting who WE are, us users are still often in doubt about the "identity" of the MACHINE. "Is it really the bank we are interacting with, or is it a skimming machine (or both)?"
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Precisely, that is the most important observation imho.
Making additional personal data available for identity thieves is just plain reckless.
ATM with lie detector (Score:1)
M: Mmmm you like the taste of that?
F: Mmmm yeah, yummy!
Detector: *bleep* *bleep* *bleep*
M: What! You don't like it?
F: No sorry I don't really.
M: Why not?
F: Well it tastes like fucking shit doesn't it?
M: Oh, damn, the internet lied to me, I was sure u'd like it.
No human intervention? (Score:1)
Russian Snake Oil ATM! (Score:2)
I am amazed that the headline and article use the ridiculous term "lie detector". There is no such thing. The polygraph, which is one of the most sophisticated devices thus labeled, requires an expert operator and careful calibration for each subject, and even so, has failed in independent studies to show more than about 61% reliability [wikipedia.org] (compared to 50% for a coin flip). Voice analyzers which aren't carefully calibrated for each subject don't even begin to approach that level of "reliability". Personal
The real technology behind it (Score:2)
Maybe it's just an "um" detector.
ATM: "Do you have liens against your property, unpaid bills or any other credit problems?"
Dumbass: "Um...uh...err, no?!"
ATM: "DENIED!"
I think it'd work at least as well as a polygraph machine.
The More You Know (Score:1)
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Comparing it to a polygraph is definitely misleading. A polygraph has at least some science behind it. According to Professor Mark Liberman, who has been studying these sorts of voice analyzer systems for years, there is absolutely no research to show that there is anything to measure, so the claim that they collected a bunch of data from police voice files is meaningless. They might as well claim that they studied the eye colors of people who were found to by lying in past polygraph tests, for all the s