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The Almighty Buck Technology

Russian Lie Detector ATM 95

smitty777 writes "Apparently the Russians are starting to add lie detectors to their ATMs in an attempt to prevent identity theft and bad withdraws. 'Consumers with no previous relationship with the bank could talk to the machine to apply for a credit card, with no human intervention required on the bank’s end. The machine scans a passport, records fingerprints and takes a three-dimensional scan for facial recognition. And it uses voice-analysis software to help assess whether the person is truthfully answering questions that include “Are you employed?” and “At this moment, do you have any other outstanding loans?”'"
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Russian Lie Detector ATM

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  • by Anonymous Coward

    What the fuck is this supposed to do? How is this any better than hiring bank staff?
    In Soviet Russia, Bank stael

  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 11, 2011 @05:27AM (#36409716)

    Sberbank has some of the most advanced ATMs in the world now and it's mostly because of the extremely long ques. They're really advanced now, you can pay all sorts of bills from almost any company at them, gas bills, phone, internet, mobile, water, heating, taxes, etc, if for example you have a gas bill it will scan the barcode and then you just insert the money so it's connected to the billing systems of most major utility/service providers.

    The main reason for these new lie detector tests is Russian people predominantly being drunk liars (but not as bad as chechens who will murder you for no reason at all) are more likely to end up dead or to take the money and dissapear off the map and it's hard to track down every worthless moron, especially when doing so may cost more than the loan is worth and it's also very likely that the money is gone and they have no assets to seize.

    • if for example you have a gas bill it will scan the barcode and then you just insert the money

      You insert the money? Don't you have bank accounts in Russia?

      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        It's mostly a cash-based economy. Only larger companies in Moscow/St Petersburg are giving registered work, most people get paid cash in hand.

      • In Soviet Russia, ATM withdraws you!
      • by brusk ( 135896 )
        It's the same in Japan: ATMs there have accepted cash for a long time (credit/debit cards are less widely used). So one of my Japanese teachers, when he first came to the States, tried to make a deposit by inserting some twenties into the deposit slot of the ATM. He had to get the bank staff to open the machine up and retrieve it.
        • We have ATMs that can accept deposits in the UK too- but we also have ones that don't. It'd be interesting if that story is true as it would imply taht all Japanese ATMs accept cash deposits (so an exception is unheard of, tripping up the teacher).

          In the UK, we have some super-clever ATMs that can do almost anything (cash deposits, cheque deposits, online account management, savings book printing, etc.), but they do tend to only be on branch premises- the ones that you see scattered all over the place tend

          • by brusk ( 135896 )
            In Japan they pretty much all take cash--if they take deposits, that includes cash deposits (the exception being perhaps small cash dispensers that don't take deposits, perform transfers, etc.).
        • by Dahan ( 130247 )

          ATMs there have accepted cash for a long time.

          I've been using US ATMs for 20+ years, and in my experience, they've always accepted cash deposits. In the early days, you did have to put your deposit in an envelope (regardless if it was cash or check)--the ATM didn't actually do anything with the deposit except store it securely until the bank teller could actually make the deposit. However, the instructions were very clear about the envelope requirement: text instructions on-screen (this was before the fancy GUI ATMs), a picture of an envelope by the de

    • Wow, "most advanced ATMs in the world", here in Finland we are currently moving ATM's like that to junk yard, because they are old and obsolete. Practically everyone is paying their bills using internet. I personally don't pay really any bills manually anymore, incoming bills are automatically paid from my bank account (and yes, i need to allow that once for every company that is billing me).
      • Erm... If you guys are getting rid of your ATMs in exchange for internet transactions, how are those same ATMs more advanced?
        It seems to me that online transactions should be considered a new transaction method, not an "advanced ATM"... Maby when your computer can print(and accept) physical, legal money...

        • I quess that is true. However, there is not much need for physical money. Some people still use it (old people, people that can't have cards...), but almost everyone pays using cards. I personally don't even have wallet that can hold physical money, it's only for cards (id, credit&debit card and some other like student card..). Parking fee, coca & cola from vending machine and similar stuff is paid using single text message. No need for coins. But i quess it's not like that everywhere.
          • However, there is not much need for physical money. Some people still use it (old people, people that can't have cards...), but almost everyone pays using cards.

            Let me list a few kinds of merchants in my home town that accept currency but not cards:

            • Garage sales
            • Flea markets
            • Open-air markets
            • Mall lockers (insert two quarters and turn key)
            • Gumball vending machines
            • Most soft drink vending machines (though this has started to change)
            • Some video arcades' token dispensers
            • Public transit
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward

        I have never in my life paid a bill other than through the web interface of a bank. In fact, I don't even know how you do it otherwise.

        I have asked my bank about what they can do for me if I want to pay things with checks, though (if I can find someone who will accept it). At first they didn't understand me; then they just chuckled and told me that they don't do that stuff anymore.

        I'm born in 1983.

        • Are you in the US? If so, checks are still used for a lot of stuff (bills, a lot of places require a Voided check for certain things, etc)

          Not all renters have a way to pay online, so you use a check for your monthly apartment rent...

      • by gpuk ( 712102 )

        Sounds great in theory but having been bitten twice now by companies incorrectly double or treble billing me I no longer allow anyone to automatically debit from my account. Much safer to log on to a suppliers payment portal every month and manually make a payment using my debit card.

        • Sounds great in theory but having been bitten twice now by companies incorrectly double or treble billing me I no longer allow anyone to automatically debit from my account. Much safer to log on to a suppliers payment portal every month and manually make a payment using my debit card.

          Still not very safe. If you're going to pay a bill from your personal account, at least here in the U.S., don't do it using an ACH debit. Log on to your bank's site and have the bank send the money. The danger in the U.S. system is that once a direct debit has been accepted from a given payee, it will always be. That's dangerous, and not just from criminal activity. As you say, mistakes get made. It's a lot harder for a mistake like that to happen if you decide how much money to send from your account, rath

          • Why would my electric company overcharge me and say that they won't give my money back? Soon they would be without customers. Incoming bills are also visible in online bank few weeks before thay are actually paid. You can easily see that they are ok.

            I also have debit&credit (VISA) card, it's directly connected to my main account. It's bank and card company that is responsible for double chargin, scamming and other things like that long as i use my card as is said in contract (keep card PIN hidden, if
            • Why would my electric company overcharge me and say that they won't give my money back?

              You're far too trusting, or maybe you've just been lucky. Tell you what, I'll give you a few examples of why I'm a little bit gun shy when dealing with any kind of direct access to my accounts. Remember, possession is nine-tenths of the law, and once your account has been drained, even by mistake, it's not necessarily a simple matter to get it back. It really is not.

              I once had a cell phone carrier (who shall rename nameless, but have the words "One" and "Cellular" in their name) that charged me over $3,0

    • This is not what an ATM is for. It should just be a machine where you put your card, input the amount of cash you want, get your cash and go.
      Doing anything else just causes queues and annoyances.

      Pay your bills on the Internet like normal people. Or better yet use automatic debit so that you don't have to waste time taking care of such things.

  • I'm just saying, being sober would come across as pretty suspicious.
  • Unreliable. (Score:5, Informative)

    by headkase ( 533448 ) on Saturday June 11, 2011 @05:39AM (#36409752)
    If I was ever in the position where I was required to submit to a polygraph, and I don't mean this situation at a bank machine, I would gladly comply as long as I was able to add a single question as the first one:

    Can this machine tell if I am lying?

    Polygraph machines are not lie detectors. What they are are stress detectors. And if you know that little fact you need not be stressed when you are dealing with one. Here is a summary of a polygraph machine's reliability: here [].
    • by gl4ss ( 559668 )
      russia: where beating lie detectors while drunk off your ass was mandatory for social success.

      also, russia: where shit like this can be sold to someone, as they've been in a media/culture vacuum for so long. they haven't had real public fails of how it works. btw props for the deus ex sig.
    • by Anonymous Coward

      Well, this is even worse than a polygraph. While a polygraph detects stress, it's not even clear what (if anything) this machine measures. Read Speech-based lie detection in Russia [].

  • 'In Soviet Russia, ATM watches YOU.'?

  • ATM with a built-in lie detector?

    Put one of those near Capiton Hill and it will short out within minutes.

    • Put one of those near Capiton Hill and it will short out within minutes.

      Must be all those capiton particles.

      Well, it sounds like a particle...

    • by Xtifr ( 1323 )

      First you have to build something that can actually be called a "lie detector" without the mandatory use of scare quotes. Personally, I suspect that if you installed one near Capital Hill, it would simply prove to be even less reliable than your normal, completely-unreliable "lie detector" since politicians are such expert liars!

      • by Xtifr ( 1323 )

        In b4 grammar nazis: yes, I meant to type "Capitol Hill"; in my defense, I was only one letter off, just like the original poster. :)

      • by sjames ( 1099 )

        On capital hill, lie detectors can be even simpler than usual and 100% accurate. You just have to connect the red lie light to a switch that detects mouth movement and disconnect the green truth light.

  • In Soviet Russia, ATM makes degrading request of you.
  • What could possibly go wrong?

    Then again, this is Russia we're talking about. So a more relevant question might be "what could possibly go more wrong than it already is", to which the answer is "not much".

  • The youth of today are conditioned to give up every personal detail for any menial service offered by a provider. It is one short step from here to "Papiers!". If a service involves risk to the corporation, then that's their risk not mine. If you don't like the risk, don't offer the service that way. Get a knowledgable risk assessor to speak to me and size me up. I am the one with the money. You want to know if I'm trustworthy, well find out. Otherwise keep your business for the next schmuck who gladly give
  • So you let a bunch or Russians with whom you've never done business scan your passport and fingerprints, do a 3D facial scan and get voice and video samples of you. Er, no thanks.

  • by blind biker ( 1066130 ) on Saturday June 11, 2011 @07:05AM (#36410000) Journal

    Psychopaths have zero fear or stress when they tell a lie. (They are otherwise rather fearless - but I won't go into details now.) These ATM machines are wide open for them to pick them apart.

  • by StripedCow ( 776465 ) on Saturday June 11, 2011 @07:15AM (#36410040)

    While those ATMs are getting more and more sophisticated at detecting who WE are, us users are still often in doubt about the "identity" of the MACHINE. "Is it really the bank we are interacting with, or is it a skimming machine (or both)?"

    • Precisely, that is the most important observation imho.

      Making additional personal data available for identity thieves is just plain reckless.

  • M: Mmmm you like the taste of that?
    F: Mmmm yeah, yummy!
    Detector: *bleep* *bleep* *bleep*
    M: What! You don't like it?
    F: No sorry I don't really.
    M: Why not?
    F: Well it tastes like fucking shit doesn't it?
    M: Oh, damn, the internet lied to me, I was sure u'd like it.

  • Lets assume for a second this voice stress analyser can actually detect deception at a very high rate (it can't). What prevents someone from pre-recording all answers from themselves or someone else at the time when they are telling the truth then play when required? I suspect results of this stress analyser have no or very little bearing in the final outcome. This is all smoke and mirrors with hopes that those who believe in lie detectors wont attempt to apply.
  • I am amazed that the headline and article use the ridiculous term "lie detector". There is no such thing. The polygraph, which is one of the most sophisticated devices thus labeled, requires an expert operator and careful calibration for each subject, and even so, has failed in independent studies to show more than about 61% reliability [] (compared to 50% for a coin flip). Voice analyzers which aren't carefully calibrated for each subject don't even begin to approach that level of "reliability". Personal

  • Maybe it's just an "um" detector.

    ATM: "Do you have liens against your property, unpaid bills or any other credit problems?"
    Dumbass: "Um...uh...err, no?!"
    ATM: "DENIED!"

    I think it'd work at least as well as a polygraph machine.

  • Just a heads-up to the naysayers, TFA says first off that this is only being used for people applying for credit cards, not opening their existing accounts or accessing funds. It also says that it is a system using the combined efforts of a polygraph and the collected history of police reports where criminals have been exposed as lying in past polygraph tests. The machine is also programmed to detect that the user is attempting to acquire more information about the account or its holder while interacting
    • by Xtifr ( 1323 )

      Comparing it to a polygraph is definitely misleading. A polygraph has at least some science behind it. According to Professor Mark Liberman, who has been studying these sorts of voice analyzer systems for years, there is absolutely no research to show that there is anything to measure, so the claim that they collected a bunch of data from police voice files is meaningless. They might as well claim that they studied the eye colors of people who were found to by lying in past polygraph tests, for all the s

The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten percent of its capacity -- the rest is overhead for the operating system.