Tesla Motors Announces Prices For Their Upcoming Models 503
Shivetya writes with a list of prices for upcoming models from Tesla, noting that "they aren't cheap and the prices are listed assuming the $7500 tax credit. A 160-mile range S will set you back $49,900, the 230-mile is at $59,000, and the 300-mile range S will cost $69,000. Battery sizes are 40, 60, and 85kwh respectively. For your money these cars also include a very large seventeen-inch touchscreen. Is this the electric car you've been waiting for or another rich person's toy?"
Both (Score:5, Insightful)
Can't it be both? Because right now it's both.
Re:Both (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah anything over $40k is well into the "rich guy toy" range, good deal or not.
But as with all technology (Score:5, Insightful)
The first "motorized carriages" were quite definitely impractical toys for the rich. See also the first airplanes and pretty much "the first anythings"
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True. I wouldn't even call this impractical at all, just too expensive for the everyman. They look like decent deals if you have the money.
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Who actually 'lusts' after a freakin' family car...?
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I think that if they can build a 4-door luxury car with these specs for $50k they can build a 2-door sports car with similar power for less... :D
Although if they base it on the next-gen Elise you might want to walk into the car backwards...talk about fugly x_x
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You make it sound like a minivan or station wagon... This "family car" goes 0-60 in 5.6 seconds...
Re:But as with all technology (Score:5, Informative)
Not only rich people, *most* people. The average American drives 40 miles per day.
Re:But as with all technology (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with that statement is that it is an average. Probably close to zero Americans actually drive 40 miles per day. The point is this: Only rich people can afford a $60,000 car that is worthless other than for everyday commuting along with a second vehicle for longer trips where stopping for several hours after every 2 hours of driving is impractical. The average American may drive 40 miles per day, but the average American probably does make a one-way driving trip of over 160 miles at least a couple times a year (twice per major traveling holiday).
The average American, in your case, can rent a car twice a year. In fact, they frequently do so after getting in an airplane and travelling many miles. Plenty of people never drive their personal car over 250 miles (the larger range offered) in a single day ... ever.
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Yea, and the average family has 2 cars. And when they do a trip of over XXX miles they only take one of them.
Re:But as with all technology (Score:5, Funny)
My first tuna sandwich was half eaten by a rich guy.
Re:But as with all technology (Score:5, Interesting)
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I don't have any mod points, but if you reply with links on how to do this I'll think of you as an informative person.
Re:But as with all technology (Score:5, Informative)
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need the rich guys to buy it first, so the rest of us can pick them up when they get mass market
Henry Ford did it the other way around.
What he saw were limited production run cars built for the luxury market and almost useless beyond the city limits because the infrastructure wasn't there to support them.
What he saw was that mass market sales would generate enormous funds for R&D.
The Ford could cruise comfortably at 35-45 miles an hour over the worst roads imaginable at a cost of a penny a mile. Portal to portal service for a family of four and their dog and cat for twenty percent of the pric
Re:But as with all technology (Score:4, Insightful)
Ford was also by no means the first car. There were many rich people running around in their horseless cariages long before Ford got in to the game, and without them, it's hard to say if Ford would have been able to do what he did.
Re:Both (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes and no. Obviously "rich guy" is a relative term but there are plenty of people who plunk down $40K on full-size pickup trucks and SUVs that are firmly seated in the middle of the middle-class. Is it a wise choice given alternatives? Debatable. But the $50K base model is definitely not a "rich guy toy" just a white-collar guy toy.
I'm a software engineer and not what most people in the Western world would call rich, just "comfortable" in my income. I'm actually giving the car serious consideration for purchase in a few years after the lease expires on the next car I'm getting in a month or two. By then hopefully the bugs will be more or less ironed out and production ramped up so there isn't a year long waiting list like their Roadster--a car for which few people would argue against is a rich-guy toy.
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I think you're underestimating how poorly off many people in the Western world really are. BMWs and Lexuses are hardly median income transportation, even in Western countries. (That's not meant as a criticism, just an observation.)
Break even points (Score:4, Insightful)
I really need to find my EV spreadsheet, or rebuild it.
$50k Tesla car vs $25k Chevy Impala(30 mpg). At $4/gallon, and assuming maintenance savings are offset by you actually having to pay for your electricity, it's 6.25k gallons to make up the difference, or 188k miles.
If you assume you're NOT looking at the base model, and instead a $35k car as the 'equivalent, it's $15k/3,750 gallons/113k miles.
Update: Spreadsheet partially done.
Assumptions: $50k Model S vs $25kChevy Impala. 4 miles per kwh, 30 mpg, Insurance is a wash, an extra $320 of maintenance on the gas vehicle, 15k miles driven for each, $.10 electricity, $4 gasoline. 5% interest rate/cost of capital and a 10 year lifespan.
Total Annual Cost: $7,850.23 for the Tesla, $6,557.61 of the Impala. Advantage Impala by $1,292.61
Not quite right - that's for a highway driver using the cheapest available. Upping the cost to $31k for a nicer package, and figuring on a 100% city driver(18mpg), that flips it - the Impala's cost rises to $8,667.98, potentially saving you $817.75/year.
Drive a LOT of city miles, like a taxi driver, if the vehicle has the endurance, use it. Otherwise you might as well plug in your own assumptions.
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Re:Rich is relative (Score:4, Insightful)
But battery swaps would work great for a taxi -- you're usually close to base and have competent drivers and even competent staff at the base.
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I don't think I'd count a $40k car as being rich man's territory. There are plenty of working class guys who drive F-250's with diesel engines for their work, and those are $40k+. A BMW M3, their best selling car in the US, can approach $45k with all the options.
A $40,000 car, financed for 5 years, at 4% interest with a $5,000 trade is $645 a month. About $7700 per year.
Totally doable on the median household income in the US of $45,000 per year. Wise? A different story, but it's not like you have to be
Re:Both (Score:4, Interesting)
First off the cheapest one is $49,900 and that is after a $7500 tax break.
That is a $57,400 car that the tax payers have to pay $7,500 on every time one is sold.
Fuck I hate paying for someones toy.
Re:Both (Score:4, Insightful)
No, they don't.
http://www.evdl.org/docs/powerplant.pdf [evdl.org]
EVs recharging from coal-fired plants will reduce CO2 emissions in this country from 17 to 22 percent
basically : burning gas in a normal car is hideously inefficient.
Re:Both (Score:5, Interesting)
It's $49.9k *after* the tax credits, so it's not actually $40k. Let's call it $50k to be safer.
The thing is, the Roadster cost $109k, so this is already a huge price drop compared to that. That's been Tesla's strategy all along. The new tech will initially be expensive, so sell it as a premium product and use the revenues from that to develop the tech farther, driving down the cost. They've said that this is a three-phase process, and the model S is the second phase. Even the difference between $109k and $50k is a big one, and it brings the pricing into the affordable range for a much larger number of people, particularly if leasing is considered.
Comparing it to other similar cars, it's not a bad deal either. The Nissan Leaf sells for ~$35k, with a 24 kWh battery. The basic model S sells for ~$50k, with a 40 kWh battery, and is a higher-end vehicle. The range is substantially improved, and there's the (very expensive) option for larger batteries that get it within shouting distance of the range of a gasoline vehicle.
Anyhow, the point was that the model S opens up a much larger market to Tesla, which will give them the revenue and scale to work on the third phase of their plan, an electric car that is cheap enough that it can be afforded by the average person. The Roadster was $109k, the Model S was $50k, and they're planning for their third phase, codenamed BlueStar, to sell for $30k. That's not going to compete with a Toyota Yaris/Vitz, but it could compete favourably with a Camry or Avalon, perhaps. They were originally talking about getting the BlueStar out in 2013-2014, but they're now talking about being able to do it in 2015-2016. I'd imagine that battery pricing/technology is the primary limiting factor at this point.
Re:Both (Score:5, Insightful)
45 minutes gets you 80% of capacity. If I wanted to drive from Montreal to Toronto (545KM) with the high-capacity model S (480KM range), you're looking at one single 45 minute refueling stop halfway. So yeah, the trip that takes 6h13m in a gas car now takes 6h58m in the electric car, but that's not a huge difference. And, to be honest, most people stop halfway for lunch when driving to Toronto anyhow, so if you can charge midway while eating, you're potentially not using up any extra time at all.
All this presupposes that there's a recharging station halfway between Montreal and Toronto, although since they're the two largest cities in the country and it's one of the most heavily traveled routes in the country, it's not an unreasonable thing to expect we'll see some recharging stations along that route eventually.
Re:Both (Score:4, Interesting)
It's both. I just spent a similar amount on a lowbrid, but I have to say this is the first electric car done right. Plus it looks incredible on the road (my daily commute takes me from one Tesla plant to the other, and just occasionally you'll see a streetable prototype on that route). On looks alone I should have held out for one.
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Afraid of getting flamed for misusing median or average, you use both. Guaranteeing that you will be wrong.
Not this one (Score:5, Interesting)
They've claimed all along (or close to it anyway) that the plan was to sell the rest of us a car on the third iteration.
The one I'm really interested in is the cheaper sports car, which could be the fourth or fifth model. More range, less performance, enough room for groceries but not for golf clubs.
rich person's toy (Score:5, Interesting)
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From a cursory glance at the Porsche website, a new 911 costs around $80k in the U.S./quote
Porche uses a nickle-and-dime-you to death pricing model, so equipped as you'd expect a luxury coupe, they're closer to 100K (for the base engine, of course, you can pay arbitratily much for more power).
Battery replacement is a real concern, but cars in this price range aren't cheap to maintain in the first place at that age. When my last luxury car hit 8-9 years old I was planning $3k/year for maintenance (including tires), and that's at the low end - a V12 Mercedes is a dependable $6K/year for the repairman.
Re:rich person's toy (Score:4, Interesting)
Figure you're plunking down at least $10k at the end of that 8 year warranty to replace your battery.
Compare that, though, to all the maintenance you won't need to do on the car during that 8 years.
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There's really not much to break. Engine maintenance will be almost zero. You have the change the brakes and tires, keep the cooling system topped up, and keep some bearings greased but that's about it. No more engine seals, ignition system, fuel system, oil system, gearbox (nothing so complicated anyways), belt-driven engine accessories...and clutches, turbos and intercoolers are right out.
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What, because it's electric it won't need ANY maintenance? What planet do you hail from where electric devices don't break down? You realize that a lot of the basic components of a car will probably still exist and require maintenance. Yeah, you won't need oil changes, but stuff is still going to break.
My 6-year old Prius has had the following maintenance (note: this is still a hybrid not fully electric, so it has both electric and gas componentry - but no transmission): routine service, oil changes, wipers, filter changes, tires/alignment, brake lights, 12v battery replaced.
Here's what I haven't done (and have had to do one of these with every other car I owned more than 5 years): Engine resurfacing, transmission replacement, brakes/pads (yes, original brake pads on my Prius are less than 50% worn), ro
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Then again, so does a manual transmission, and intelligent downshifting technique - lol!
Sure, you trade a brakepad life for a reduced transmission/clutch lifespan.
I've owned about 3 manual transmission cars (great fun on a switchback, but annoying on stop/go commutes). Until I owned my Prius, I wouldn't dream of giving up that manual control. However, the software drive-by-wire on the Prius really is awesome, and far more responsive, efficient and powerful than an automatic transmission and completely less leg-work than a manual.
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Interesting after credit prices (Score:2)
Seems like they jack up just so they end in nice looking retail figure after rebate. Of course we shouldn't be surprised.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:the electric vehicle (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:the electric vehicle (Score:4, Funny)
the automobile as a means of personal conveyance is unsustainable
That's why I'm putting all my money into unicycles. My wife, parents, and the doctors at the center all tell me this is crazy. But, mark my words, THEY'LL SEE!
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New technology. (Score:2)
I don't understand why people are complaining that these cars are expensive. That's the nature of technological progress. Early cars were also luxury items but now most people in the developed world can afford one.
Technology can't be forced into being inexpensive. Progress takes time.
Tesla S is revolutionary (Score:3, Insightful)
Bait and switch pricing .. lol (Score:3, Informative)
The prices are NOT $49,900, $59,000 and $69,000. That is the price after you redeem your government coupon (Plug-In Electric Vehicle Credit (IRC 30 and IRC 30D) [irs.gov]). You will still have to front the full price and then wait until your next tax filing in order to claim your maximum tax credit of $7500. The credit itself will be phased out after 200,000 qualifying vehicles have been sold.
Re:Bait and switch pricing .. lol (Score:5, Informative)
That's not bait-and-switch, you moron. They say quite plainly [teslamotors.com] that these are post-rebate prices.
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Wow, clearly you didn't even read the summary where they said the exact same thing.
Screen looks tacky (Score:2)
I don't care for the oversized screen. It seems like a good idea, but I'd prefer a smaller screen above large hard buttons. In particular for common functions like climate control.
and at the other end of the spectrum: Ural Model T (Score:5, Interesting)
I can't help but think that the folks over at Ural motorcycles/IMZ America have a better sense of the market right now. They've just introduced a new "Model T" at the low end of their range, bringing the basic Ural 2-wheel drive sidecar motorcycle to the US for under $10k. [imz-ural.com] Irbit Motorworks (IMZ) is Russian, the design is sourced from midcentury BMW, and the last decade+ of updates (e.g. new cylinders/heads with modern compression, better mpg/reliability, etc) have been pushed by enthusiasts in the US and EU. It intersect with the Tesla in the "sheer fun to drive" category, and my guess is that with an economy just holding on, there's gonna be a lot more of these on the road.
In another post I muttered about T-Mo staying on as the value carrier in the US: "T-Mo isn't making money hand over fist, but they're doing _ok_, and that's good. In these times, in this economy, I want to give my money to an org that's doing _ok_: neither going out of business, nor robbing me. You hear that, T-Mo? "Ok" and "staying in business without f__king your customers" is the new black. So keep on keeping on."
Same goes for Ural/IMZ versus Tesla. I have a sneaking suspicion that the Tesla business model is too "lean on the rich to get thru hard times" which all too often degenerates to "ran outta high-end customers, so try to screw the next class for as much as we need to stay afloat..." You wanna impress me Tesla? Go buy the tooling for the Corbin Merlin or Sparrow [3wheelers.com] and start turning out fun electric 1-seaters for $15k -- price-competitive with the Fiat 500, Smartcar, and Scion iQ.
200 miles (Score:2)
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In my state you can go 200 miles on some roads between gas stations. I wouldn't want a car with lower range than that.
But just think how many new jobs there'll be for tow truck drivers collecting all the fancy electric cars that ran out of power in the middle of nowhere.
before deriding them too much... (Score:2)
$30K version planned (Score:3)
Re:No (Score:4, Funny)
Good username/post combo.
Re:No (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder when electric vehicles will use standardized batteries which can be replaced quickly.
When that happens, it might be possible to pull into a "Battery Exchange" station where your dead/low batteries can be quickly pulled and replaced with freshly conditioned and charged batteries in under two minutes. Your dead/low batteries then go onto the conditioner/charger to be used by the next shmo who pulls in.
Along the same line as propane tank exchanges. You buy the tank once, then keep trading it in for full tanks - only paying for the propane and the exchange fee.
Until battery electric vehicles become popular, stations like this won't be ubiquitous in the same way gas stations are.
Re:No (Score:5, Informative)
From memory (which is based on older info and might not be 100%):
1. There is an option for a 5-minute battery swap-out at properly equipped service stations and there's a quick charge option where proper charging equipment can bring the battery from 0% to 80% in 45 minutes. You would likely be more interested in the 5 minute swap in terms of a gas station replacement for long trips, but the vast majority of refills would be resolved with nightly charging, giving the advantage to this car as you can't fill your gasoline vehicle with fuel every night at home - you have to make a special stop once or twice a week and pay out a bunch of money. How often does anyone take a >160/300 mile trip? If it's all the time for you, this isn't the car for you until there are enough service stations doing the 5-minute swap to make it convenient. If you're like the 99% of people in the US and Europe who drive far less than that 99% of the time, this works just fine.
2. Expected lifespan (defined as >80% of brand-new capacity) is 8 - 10 years.
3. The batteries cost $10,000 to replace today. Their cost in 8 - 10 years is extremely difficult to anticipate, but assuming that the materials involved aren't massively more expensive, the technology will certainly be significantly cheaper and should push those prices down.
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Solution...
Enter into a partnership with Cracker Barrel offer free installation of high speed chargers.
Then everyone will just eat and charge at Cracker Barrel.
Win-Win Scenario....now that's CAPITALISM!!!
Re:No (Score:5, Funny)
Venn diagram of people who eat at Cracker Barrel and people who want to drive electric cars: O O
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My 2002 Prius is 10 years old now (remember, 2012's come out in 2011).
Battery is still working. And it's not even as fancy as the new ones.
Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)
Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. The cost of replacing the batteries (no doubt with much better batteries) a few years down the road could easily be offset by much cheaper ongoing operating costs.
Re:No (Score:5, Informative)
Perhaps the most important question is what is the all-in cost per mile of operation and how many miles to I need to operate it annually for it to make financial sense. For a SWAG: Assume $0.10/kWh, 3 miles/kWh, or $0.033/mile for electricity, vs. 25 MPG, $3.50/gallon, $0.14/mile for gasoline. Effective difference of $0.10/mile. At a US average annual distance of 12,000 miles, the fuel cost difference is $1,200. Electric vehicle advocates also suggest that you save another $200/yr on oil changes, oil filters, etc.. If you assume an average ownership period of 10 years, that's a $14,000 savings in OpEx. Of course, currently the car is more expensive, you're limited (slightly) in range, and there are (currently) limited number of places where you can fast-charge (15-20 minutes full charge).
Since when do Slashdot readers bet against technology?
No the car is not more expensive... (Score:3)
What are you comparing it to? A Chevy Cruze, a Ford Focus?
Different class of vehicle. This is a luxury vehicle with leather interior and a 0-60 in 4.4 seconds. It competes with BMW, Mercedes and Porshe.
How much does a full featured BMW or Porsche go for? $50,000 no longer looks over priced for it's class.
In fact, it might look pretty damn cheap. I just looked at the base pricing MSRP for a Porsche Panerama (or whatever it was, there 4 door sedan). The low end model does 0-60 in 6 seconds. Higher end model
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How many people routinely drive 200-300 miles? That's somewhere between 2 1/2 and 4 hours at highway speeds, depending on the speed limits where you live. In my neck of the woods, 120 miles is a really long commute. Yeah, people sometimes drive cross-country to visit relatives and friends or for business, but that's hardly typical (i.e., day-in, day-out) usage. And if you can afford a high-end luxury sedan, you probably can afford more than one car, so the
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Can it be refueled from empty to full in 2 minutes like a gasoline engine? What is the battery lifespan? How much will they cost to be replaced?
Planning ahead is something thats needed no matter what you drive. No one embarks on a 300 mile roadtrip with the gas gauge blinking red. This one will have the "large LCD display" reminding you to recharge. The battery lifespan is usually in the excess of 100,000 miles, with typical NiMH batteries giving between 130,000-150,000 mile range. At this point, the batteries are expensive, but if you consider the amount of saving in fuel costs, oil changes, all sorts of filters and pumps, etc. over the course of
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No one embarks on a 300 mile roadtrip with the gas gauge blinking red.
Why not? There'll be a gas station in five miles and I can 'recharge' in under five minutes.
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The did state an 8 year warranty on the battery, with no mileage limit.
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Don't make me link the study showing that even an electric car running on a dirty coal plant is much cleaner than a gasoline car AGAIN. And don't make me point out that making cars energy-source-agnostic makes it possible to make whole regions cleaner just by changing the power source AGAIN.
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There are a few and they all deal with plug-in hybrids, and it turns out it's not so simple for EVs. Non-plug-in hybrids are cleaner on 100% dirty coal but PHEVs and pure EVs aren't because it turns out 100% dirty coal is actually worse than gasoline:
http://web.mit.edu/mitei/docs/.../electrification-transportation-system.pdf [mit.edu]
This article calculates the efficiency of a pure EV running on 100% dirty coal and confirms that it's worse than gasoline, using a real-world worst-case scenario (Wyoming) an EV's emissi
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Don't forget that most electricity comes from fossil fuels so the car neither green nor sustainable nor renewable.
Forgive me if I'm being a bit presumptuous about your own beliefs, however, I feel the need to rant a bit here. I am simply sick and tired of people seemingly determined to attack or attempt to discredit anything related to green policies. I find it ridiculous that so many climate skeptics want to turn it into an 'us versus them' game where you have to tear down everything the other side supports.
I'm a climate skeptic myself. I'm skeptical that man has as much to do with climate change as many seem to belie
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
Battery swapping is going to seem like a laughably silly idea 10 years from now. I think it's silly right now myself.
EV makers should stop trying to appease the "range anxiety" crowd, they can't be appeased. Have battery swap stations at every corner and cars with a 500 mile range and they'll be "anxious" about getting a dud battery and breaking down in the desert they drive through every morning.
I mean the high-end model goes 300 miles. There are only two reasons to have a problem with that range: You actually drive further than that regularly, in which case you have no business driving an electric car right now anyways, or you've got some kind of "range survivalist syndrome" where you're always worried about "what if I run out of juice and then ZOMBIES ATTACK!?"
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Battery swapping is going to seem like a laughably silly idea 10 years from now. I think it's silly right now myself.
I agree. It was successful about a century ago. Today, it's just hype from Shai Agassi of Better Place. (I've met him. He's all hat and no cattle. After five years of hype, all they've installed are a couple of demo sites and a 3 taxicab demo in Tokyo.)
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While this is true, it is nice for the "every man" that they do. If they focused on the average persons needs, the cars would only go 60 or so miles. As they push into the realm of 300 m.p.c. and beyond they start to make a car that is on par with a gasoline car fro the "everyman".
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As they push into the realm of 300 m.p.c.
Miles per Coulomb?
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I mean the high-end model goes 300 miles. There are only two reasons to have a problem with that range: You actually drive further than that regularly, in which case you have no business driving an electric car right now anyways, or you've got some kind of "range survivalist syndrome" where you're always worried about "what if I run out of juice and then ZOMBIES ATTACK!?"
Or the other logical reason is that sometimes you drive farther than that. I would love to get an electric car, and it would handle 98% of my driving. But I'm single and it would be my only car, so the times I do need to drive farther I would be out of luck. I sometime (maybe bimonthly) travel between 150 and 300 miles to regional cities for concerts. Even a 300 mile range is risky since I can't guarantee that I will be able to charge it where I am going.
EVs are great as a secondary car. They make perf
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Well for bimonthly I'd say an EV doesn't make sense right now, but for those who only do it once or twice a year it might be worth it to just rent an ICE car for those trips. I wouldn't be surprised if it paid off in gas savings.
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I live in a hurricane zone and know what it is like to not be able to refuel anywhere in a 200 mile radius with a gas vehicle. And yes, the hordes pouring out of New Orleans as the city floods can seem very zombie like.
Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)
I mean the high-end model goes 300 miles.
Yeah, and? Our Honda Civic costs less than half as much, goes at least 50% further, and takes a fraction of the time to 'recharge'. We can just manage to drive to my girlfriend's parents house on one tank, whereas if we bought this 'luxury sedan' we'd have to stop for a few hours half-way to charge up... except there's nowhere to do so.
Why would you want a 'luxury sedan' that can't make long journeys, or requires you to hang around waiting for hours on the few routes where you can?
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Re:No (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not a life-threatening problem unless you live in the remote hills of North Dakota or something. 300 miles is like a 30MPG car with a 10-gallon tank. For the person who suddenly needed to exceed their car's capabilities and can't wait for a half-hour quick charge at the nearest station, there's always the option of calling a tow truck. Not the end of the world.
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I live in a hurricane zone and know what it is like to not be able to refuel anywhere in a 200 mile radius with a gas vehicle.
Re:No (Score:5, Informative)
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With the top of the range model, I think that they have a no quibble, lifetime, battery replacement service*
*Assuming that Tesla doesn't go belly-up at some point, that is.
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Until they figure out solar, natural gas is the next big thing. Easy to retrofit, no batteries. Cheap (at least in the US).
Next big thing??? Its been a standard thing in many other places in the world for a long long time. Its probably only slow to take off in the US because (compared globally) the US has very cheap gas prices.
Re:CNG is the Future (Score:4, Interesting)
Until they figure out solar, natural gas is the next big thing. Easy to retrofit, no batteries. Cheap (at least in the US).
Yeah, if you completely forget about supply and demand. How cheap do you think that natural gas is going to be once it's a common fuel for cars? Hint: look at the price and prevalence of diesel from 1980 to now.
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Isn't the US a net exporter of natural gas right now? There's somehting to be said for a fuel source that doesn't require armies stationed in foreign deserts, even if it's a bit pricey.
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Let's not forget the significant negative environmental impacts of drilling for gas.
It may burn clean, but it sure as hell doesn't extract clean. Take a trip to Dimock, PA for a good example.
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Actually, you're probably the one forgetting about supply and demand. There's ridiculous supply available. You're only talking demand.
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Actually, you're probably the one forgetting about supply and demand. There's ridiculous supply available. You're only talking demand.
Arg.. Okay, time for today's math lesson.
If you increase demand, you increase the price. If you increase the demand by 200 million cars (roughly the number of working vehicles in the country, assuming the average adult has 1 car), then you increased demand by a metric shit-ton. You really think the prices will stay the same?
Re:CNG is the Future (Score:5, Informative)
As the owner of an electric Nissan LEAF, a hybrid Toyota Prius, and a CNG Honda Civic GX I can tell you the car I'm getting rid of right now. Hint: it's the one with the limited range, limited fueling infrastructure, fuel storage method expiration date of 15 years or less, no trunk space, and limited amenities.
If you guess the LEAF or Prius you'd be wrong. We've enjoyed our Civic GX, and it's proven to be a reliable car, but cost and convenience wise it can't hold a candle to the LEAF now that we've taken delivery and been driving the car for 6 months.
Plugging in the LEAF is significantly more convenient than driving to the nearest CNG station (6 miles away) and hoping their pump is operating. If it's not then it's a 12 mile drive to the next CNG station which usually has a queue of buses, garbage trucks, or taxis lined up meaning a 30 minute wait. The CNG cylinder has a legally mandated expiration date of 15 years and would cost more than the value of the rest of the car to replace when that time is up. Maintenance for the car is very costly, requiring special CNG fuel line filters changed every other service (about $800 when we go to the Civic GX friendly dealer in the desert, closer to $1500 at the regular Honda dealer in town) as well as cylinder inspections and certifications, and all that doesn't even get you out of having to do a smog check in California.
The LEAF by comparison plugs in anywhere from public quick-charge DC stations (20-30 minute charge) to home 240V and 120V connections. It also requires no regular maintenance beyond topping up windshield washer fluid and having the tires rotated. The energy cost is about half of what we pay at the CNG station, and a quarter of what we pay to fuel the Prius. The trunk is huge and the back seats fold down for even more room. The car is fast, quiet, and comfortable and makes the Prius feel quaint and old fashioned. The Civic GX feels like a horse drawn buggy by comparison - it's sluggish (the CNG version has about 30HP less than the petrol version of the Civic and it has a heavy CNG cylinder to lug around), has no trunk space, and has all the noise and shaking you get with ICE cars.
But hey, if you're interested in a nice clean Civic GX with a little over 100,000 miles then ignore all that, I've got a car to sell you!
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Re:Tesla (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll give you a call as soon as I have a day when I actually need the towing capacity of diesel truck on a daily basis.
(ever wonder if maybe you weren't the target market?)
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When the electric toy soda can vehicles can tow the load of my diesel truck with a range of 350 miles, you give me a shout-out.
That will come when hybrids mature - there's a reason most locomotives are hybrids these days (and rail frieght takes a tiny fraction of the energy-per-ton of road frieght).
Re:How large is a normal 17-inch touchscreen? (Score:5, Funny)
How large is a normal 17-inch touchscreen?
About 17 inches.
The "very large seventeen-inch touchscreen" referenced in the summary is a metric touchscreen. Typical noob mistake.
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There is also an option for an abnormal 17" screen. It's pear-shaped.
Re:I can't wait (Score:5, Insightful)
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You think you're being different by not driving an electric vehicle? Where do you live?