Will Future Tesla Cars Use Metal-Air Batteries? 171
thecarchik writes "Most advocates and industry analysts expect lithium-ion batteries to dominate electric-car energy storage for the rest of this decade. But is Tesla Motors planning to add a new type of battery to increase the range of its electric cars? Tesla has filed for eight separate patents on uses of metal-air battery technology (for example, #20120041625). The metals covered for use in the metal-air battery are aluminum, iron, lithium, magnesium, vanadium, and zinc. Metal-air batteries, which slowly consume their anodes to give off energy, hit the news last month when Israeli startup Phinergy demonstrated its prototype battery and let reporters drive a test vehicle fitted with the energy-storage device. Mounted in a subcompact demonstration car, Phinergy's aluminum-air battery provides 1,000 miles of range, it said, and requires refills of distilled water (which acts as electrolyte in the cells) about every 200 miles."
My car has a range of 6000 miles (Score:5, Funny)
1,000 miles of range, it said, and requires refills of distilled water about every 200 miles.
My car has a range of 6000 miles. That is how often I have to stop to change the motor oil. Of course, I also have to stop every 300 miles to get some gas.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah. It looks like these are nonrechargeable cells.
In short, a car that consumes aluminum instead of gasoline to run.
There's a brief reference to rechargeable zinc-air cells - but the aluminum-air cells seem to be nonrechargeable.
Re: (Score:2)
Aluminum is simple to refine again and can be done without fossil fuels. It uses quite of bit of electricity, but so does recharging a car battery.
Re: (Score:2)
We need to assess the overall efficiency of the process that uses aluminum in the battery and then electro-refines it via the Hall process.
Re: (Score:3)
According to Alcoa, the world's largest producer of aluminium, the best smelters use about 13 kilowatt hours (46.8 megajoules) of electrical energy to produce one kilogram of aluminium; the worldwide average is closer to 15 kWh/kg (54 MJ/kg) [mrreid.org]. Each kilogram of aluminum in the battery produces about 8 KWH of energy, so the efficiency from plant to engine is around 60%, maybe a bit lower than charging a battery from house-delivered electricity (10% transmission loss, 80% charging efficiency, 0.9*0.8 = 0.72).
Re: (Score:3)
12.4 cents/KWH here in Canada. The path to recycle this aluminium is more tortuous and costly, but with enough cars buying new AL battery inserts and dropping off oxidized slush they will find a way, even if not economic compared with new mined alumina where the power is. If this works it will take 40-50 years to be put in place wlong with the others, like Vanadium and Lithium.
Re: (Score:2)
According to Alcoa, the world's largest producer of aluminium, the best smelters use about 13 kilowatt hours (46.8 megajoules) of electrical energy to produce one kilogram of aluminium; the worldwide average is closer to 15 kWh/kg (54 MJ/kg) [mrreid.org]. Each kilogram of aluminum in the battery produces about 8 KWH of energy, so the efficiency from plant to engine is around 60%, maybe a bit lower than charging a battery from house-delivered electricity (10% transmission loss, 80% charging efficiency, 0.9*0.8 = 0.72).
The cost of that electricity though will be the wholesale grid cost, about 3.5 cents/KWH. What do you pay for your electricity (probably three times that and up)?
Aluminum is a good way to export electricity. Iceland does this with its hydropower.
And not only is it wholesale pricing but they could even focus production on off-peak hours, at least while there aren't huge quantities in demand.
Re:My car has a range of 6000 miles (Score:5, Interesting)
There is a misnomer: These are not batteries but fuel cells. The way the aluminum is "recharged" is by hauling the alumina (aluminum oxide) back to a smelting place and spending 15,000 watts per kilo of aluminum made in electricity.
My concern about this type of battery is the fact that it requires so much energy to "recycle". Already, 1/20 of all US electric output goes to smelt aluminum, and going with aluminum/air fuel cells would add to something that is a ferocious energy user. (Not to knock the aluminum business -- it is a very useful and vital metal, but it is highly dependent on electricity.)
Re: (Score:2)
Then the only question is what mass of aluminum do they need. Adding more electrical output for aluminum production should not be that bad, since it is a known load and unlikely to vary.
Re: (Score:2)
(Not to knock the aluminum business -- it is a very useful and vital metal, but it is highly dependent on electricity.)
That is actually the point. It is sometimes called "solid electricity" - its production cost is almost entirely the electricity that goes into it. This fuel cell pack makes use of that efficiently packaged energy. Since you can use the cheapest source of electricity in the world to make the fuel plates, it is very economical.
Swapping in a new plate pack every 1000 miles is likely to much less of a hassle than a nightly charging regimen (if the system has a decent design).
Re: (Score:2)
The efficiency of the batteries isn't bad though: about 8 out for the 15 in. And "charging" the batteries centrally at a smelter would be far less load on power distribution infrastructure than everyone individually charging form the grid.
There's nothing wrong with using power - that's where improved standards of living come from - the trick is using it efficiently. Of course, you also have to schlepp the aluminum back and forth to the smelter, and add in the cost of that, but if you don't need to be clo
Re: (Score:2)
15,000 watts per kilo of aluminum made in electricity
For how long are 15,000 watts expended? Power usage isn't meaningful in this context. Need a duration to get energy.
Re: (Score:2)
My concern about this type of battery is the fact that it requires so much energy to "recycle".
Don't forget about the carbon electrodes which are consumed in the smelting process, producing carbon dioxide gas.
Which can in turn be piped into a greenhouse to produce literally tons of solid carbon. Really, I don't see that as even remotely a problem as it is just one more thing that can be recycled.
Re: (Score:2)
Who the hell drives from Boston to Atlanta?
Have you ever heard of an airplane?
If the batteries are no more expensive than 1000 miles worth of gasoline it could still work. I have my doubts about that price though.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't drive from Boston to Atlanta, but I do drive between DC and Northern New York and that is only 400 miles, but it is another 400 miles back. In the current air travel environment it is not worth it to fly that distance, and train service to my destination is inconvenient to say the least. So, an electric that gave me 1,000 miles range would start making electrics quite viable for me as my primary vehicle.
Of course, that is assuming that the technology didn't require some ridiculous expense to opera
Re: (Score:2)
Not when there's Amtrak.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The article did say that they are also working on a zinc-air battery that is claimed to be rechargeable, but the aluminum air battery is not.
Re: (Score:2)
In the test car, the water must be refilled "every few hundred kilometers"--perhaps every 200 miles.
Re: (Score:2)
As far as we know, there are no vehicles on the market today that offer 1,000 miles of continuous range using either gasoline or diesel fuel.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know who this "we" is, and I don't know who you are quoting, but plenty of people have reached 1000 miles in diesel Passats.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
As far as we know, there are no vehicles on the market today that offer 1,000 miles of continuous range using either gasoline or diesel fuel.
More than a few class 8 trucks can do this and have fuel to spare. While moving 30+ tons of freight.
Re: (Score:2)
Uh, step out of your house and go look at the nearest freeway.
See those vehicles that are much, MUCH larger than the other vehicles on the road? You know, the ones usually carrying trailers?
Yea, those can do it, with a full load or cargo AND a full load of fuel, and that's not including the contents of a half-a-house I've seen installed in most of the ones I've climbed inside.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
mine goes 100,000 miles (Score:2)
That's how long it takes to consume the metal spark plug electrodes.
Also, I have to stop and put in liquid every 300 miles or so, but that is immaterial to my range calculations.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
True but you can't make your own gas as easily as you could make your own distilled water. When you think about it after initial costs you could create distilled water for significantly less than gas. Once your still is built your costs are heating(electric or gas) and tap water.
Re: (Score:2)
you could make your own distilled water.
...which requires further energy expenditure on your part. Or you could buy it at the store where that's done on an industrial scale for "only" a significant fraction of what my gasoline costs me right now (about 1/3rd the price today). This adds to the charging cost, the cost of refitting my home electrical system, the difficulty of finding a place to charge outside my home, and the premium I'd pay for this vehicle over getting a perfectly functional used car for less than $5,000.
To quote the great Lucas
Re: (Score:2)
Distilled water in fact does not fall from the sky for free.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, I own the rights. If you are making use of Ossifer(TM) brand sky water, you must pay me $1.00/gallon.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I am expecting this Battery doesn't have a 15 gallons to fill either. Today's lead-water batteries only hold a couple of quarts.
I would expect the new batter to have a capacity maybe 2 to 3 times the size of a regular battery, which would be just about a gallon. Which would come to about 200 milers *per gallon*
Include a holding tank of water for refills on the road and you can extend that significantly. Perhaps even route the drip from the A/C into the tank ( or windshield reservoir ) and maybe save some we
Error in your calculation: 200 milers *per gallon* (Score:3)
First of all, the MPG (miles per gallon) quoted for combustion engines consuming standard gasoline or diesel gasoline are stated for the amount of miles driven per gallon of fuel expended.
.
The "gallon of water" expended is not the consumible fuel, but part of the solvent required to dissolve the metal which serves as the consumible fuel. So you're comparing apples and oranges, or to use a car analogy, you're comparing a consumible fuel (gasoline) to a solvent (distilled water)
Re: (Score:2)
It seems you're assuming (B) is the cost of an entire battery.
I would expect the consumable portion of the battery other than water would be in the form of replaceable rods or plates much like replacing a spark plug or a Diode.
They may want $15,000 for the entire battery, but the Tesla engineers are pretty bright people, and I am sure will find a solution that's easily maintainable. They must have something in mind so far, or I expect they wouldn't have taken it this far.
But you're right though, all this is
Re: (Score:2)
How many people keep a car for more than 6 years?
Re:Error in your calculation: 200 milers *per gall (Score:4, Informative)
How many people keep a car for more than 6 years?
Anyone who's not a consumerist snob or travelling salesman? Here in the UK, a lot of people do less than 5,000 miles a year, so 10 years is a more than reasonable life expectancy. Most people don't buy a new car every 2 or 3 years, there's no real need apart from showing off to the neighbours your new registration.
If you're doing 30,000 miles a year and can't afford a Mercedes, then you have a point.
Re:My car has a range of 6000 miles (Score:5, Informative)
The so-called aluminum-air battery actually consumes water also as part of its fuel [wikipedia.org]. The consumption of water is an equal mass with the aluminum consumed, and that 1000 mile batter pack weighs 25 kg, so it should consume 25 kg of water, or about 7 gallons per 1000 miles. So the water consumption cost will be around 0.6 cents per mile.
Re: (Score:2)
For that matter, exactly how much will that distilled water cost you every 200 miles?
My health-nut sister had a counter-top water distiller than made a gallon of water for about $0.25 worth of electricity. That was expensive California electricity. If it was made on a large scale for cars, I am sure the cost could be much lower.
My sister stopped using the still when she started getting cavities from lack of both fluoride and calcium. It turns out that tap water is a lot healthier than distilled water.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
It was probably the 'healthy whole grains' that gave her the cavities. The flouride just masks the effect a bit. That and a K2 deficiency.
Re:My car has a range of 6000 miles (Score:5, Interesting)
Very pure water is very aggressive. For example spray nozzles that spray RO or distilled water get eaten up very quickly.
Industrially, you have to often add controlled salts back into distilled water to keep it from destroying your machines by dissolving them.
So it's entirely plausible that distilled water had a negative effect on her teeth.
Re: (Score:3)
The Fluoride, not.
Other minerals in the water absolutely more healthy. If you drink pure water you MUST supplement or face much more grievous consequences than cavities.
Re: (Score:3)
Many water sources are naturally fluoridated, and having a minimum fluoride content can be directly correlated with occurrence of cavities in the population. Fluoride is not any less natural than any other salt (sorry, "mineral"), and varies geographically like all the rest.
My city has fluoridation equipment that it never uses, because the source water always exceeds the recommended dose.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The Fluoride argument is like the Stem Cell argument. Stem Cell proponents shout "STEM CELLS STEM CELLS! LOOK, SO MUCH POTENTIAL, LOOK HOW MANY TREATMENTS HAVE SUCCEEDED!" ... and you look and they're all Adult Stem Cell treatments, while people are arguing over killing babies.
Fluoride in ground water comes from fluoride crystal deposits--it's F+ ion. Fluoridated water has F+ ion as well, IIRC... I may be wrong there. The way it gets there, however, is by adding either a fluoride salt (NaF) or complex
Re: (Score:2)
This, Oh, to have Mod points for UP, THIS!
Re:My car has a range of 6000 miles (Score:5, Informative)
Ever heard of having just enough rope to hang yourself? That's what happens with a lot of scientific arguments, just like you implied with your stem cell analogy.
Yes. Basically. Fluoride is an anion (F-), and your "fluoride crystals" are fluoride salts. Fluoride (the ion) must have a counter ion with it; very simple forms would be NaF (sodium fluoride) or HF (hydrofluoric acid).
Define "complex," and why do we care if they are acids? The water won't be acidic when it reaches your tap.
This statement adds nothing to your argument. There are plenty of beneficial compounds that are toxic at high concentrations and regulated as hazards. Furthermore, there are plenty of beneficial compounds that are byproducts of other processes. You're thinking of Hexafluorosilicic acid, and you're talking about it like it's dihydrogen monoxide--you know, the dangerous toxic waste that kills millions yearly and was used by Hitler and Stalin.
The amount added to drinking water is a trace amount, and may be less than many natural waters have. If the concentrations are the same, what's the problem?
Furthermore, in the case of the two examples you gave, the "other garbage" (also in trace amounts) is sodium or silica, both of which you unquestionably consume in much greater quantities daily.
Yes, that's right, silica. According to wikipedia, in water at neutral pH, Hexafluorosilicic acid decomposes into silica, and the F- ions that kids crave:
SiF6^2- + 2 H2O => 6 F- + SiO2 + 4 H+
Silica, by the way, is the active ingredient in sand.
No, no you wouldn't, because you can't just strip out the fluoride. That's not how chemistry works. You could spend money to convert it into another fluoride compound (like NaF), but the safety of the consumer would be exactly the same either way, as long as it was pure. In fact, it's probably better that they don't use NaF, because we get plenty of Na on our french fries.
No comment.
It's really a shame that you have no idea what you're talking about, because there is actually a huge issue at stake that is just over the horizon from your argument, and that is the growing use of fluorinated carbon compounds. These are persistent, carcinogenic, endocrine disrupting, bioaccumulating, and every other dangerous word you can think of.
If you want to talk about that, then I'm sure we'd agree that we don't want halocarbons of any kind used any more than absolutely necessary (are you listening to me, State of California?), but unfortunately you've been suckered by a bunch of pseudoscientific babble.
Re: (Score:2)
You got smacked with a fist of logic. **pow**
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, you want fluoride in your water. You want it in trace amounts, though; and you want F+ ion, not all the other garbage that gets dumped in your water to get F+ ion into it artificially. If they artificially produced F+ ion by stripping it out of toxic waste, you'd get something vastly different--and the argument would be entirely stupid. Instead, the argument is between people shouting "FLUORIDE" while the reality is between Fluoride and Toxic Fluoride Compounds.
Thank you General Ripper [youtube.com]
Re: (Score:3)
Botteled distilled water costs 11ct per Barrel (0,3ct/Gallon) on Alibaba.com.
The price in industrial quantities without bottles will be much lower.
Re:My car has a range of 6000 miles (Score:5, Informative)
Factoring that in along with anode replacement makes those batteries sound a *LOT* less pleasant compared to gasoline.
Funny how everyone thinks gasoline is the perfect fuel. As for Gasoline's pleasantness:
1 out of every 5 fires is an vehicle fire
33 car fires are reported across the US every hour
one person per day died in a car fire between 2002 and 2005
258,000 vehicl fires in 2007 with 395 deaths and 1675 injuries.
Vehicle fires cost Americans 1.4 billion dollars in 2007
Citation: http://www.chandlerlawgroup.com/library/national-vehicle-fire-statistics.cfm [chandlerlawgroup.com]
People are just used to cars, and have familiarity bred contempt for Gasoline, a poisonous, Carcinogenic liquid that sits near the line of deflagration and explosiveness. It has awesome energy density and portability, but that doesn't chenge the danger in it that most of us choose to ignore.
I doubt the issue you bring up is all that big a problem anyhow. Likely the battery replacement will be just that - pull the battery after a thousand miles. All done by the same service station that changes your oil. Then the AlOx gets recycled. The distilled water will indeed have some cost. Probably will come down when produced in bulk amounts needed
The interesting thing about this technology is that it doesn't require petrochemicals. Doesn't require much exotic materials either. So you can expect a Koch fueled disinformation campaign very soon. the rest of the world will be driving around in these while Americans will deny that the concept works.
Re: (Score:3)
You are so correct... If we were smart, we'd use diesel like our European friends. Higher energy density, greater combustion efficiency, longer engine life, and not nearly as flammable. But soot looks dirty, so we stick with gas...
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Premium hydrogen and oxygen ain't cheap!
Re: (Score:2)
"Tesla drivers are going to want name brand water with pictures of mountains on the label."
Uhh, Arrowhead, $1.29 for two gallons of distilled water.
Not all consume their anodes (Score:2)
I gather zinc-air cells would be rechargeable if it weren't for the water in the air. I've heard of various companies working on rechargeable zinc-air, lithium-air, and even sodium-air.
Re: (Score:2)
Why would you think that? Al + O to Aluminum Oxide isn't easily reversible... at least not back into anything that's a useful anode, water or no water.
Re: (Score:2)
Tell your local aluminum refiner that.
The GP never mentioned Al though.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe for range extension, but not day to day. (Score:2)
I looked up the recycling efficiency of Aluminum in this case and found it was about 15%. This is worse efficiency than the lowest number you see for an Gas Engine. So using something like this for day to day usage seems out of the question.
But with the right packaging it might be a decent range extender in addition to a Lithium main battery pack.
Re:Maybe for range extension, but not day to day. (Score:4, Informative)
I looked up the recycling efficiency of Aluminum in this case and found it was about 15%. This is worse efficiency than the lowest number you see for an Gas Engine. So using something like this for day to day usage seems out of the question.
But with the right packaging it might be a decent range extender in addition to a Lithium main battery pack.
Internal combustion engines are only 13% efficient. "The total fuel efficiency during the cycle process in Al/air electric vehicles (EVs) can be 15% (present stage) or 20% (projected), comparable to that of internal combustion engine vehicles (ICEs) (13%). " See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
nonsense, diesels are about 30 - 40%, look it up. don't believe random typos in wikipedia.
Re: (Score:2)
I looked up the recycling efficiency of Aluminum in this case and found it was about 15%. This is worse efficiency than the lowest number you see for an Gas Engine. So using something like this for day to day usage seems out of the question.
But with the right packaging it might be a decent range extender in addition to a Lithium main battery pack.
This is exactly what they are using it for in the car in the article. They have a main battery which has a range of 100 miles. So, most of the time, you aren't using up the new battery at all. This makes it a lot more viable. I mean, I dive my car like 10 miles per day most of the time. And then once in a while, I will take a road trip and drive it like 500 miles. So, if every Walmart sold replacement batteries, and gas stations sold distilled water, then this could work out ok.
Re: (Score:2)
This concerns me as well, but there is one advantage of using aluminum: The fact that aluminum is portable.
In a place that has ample hydroelectric or solar power that can easily power a smelting plant, aluminum can be refined from aluminum oxide. Then, the metal can be hauled to wherever it is needed. This way, the impact of the high energy usage can be minimized.
Re: (Score:2)
I would like to buy these magic Gas Engines you sell, where can I find them?
Does this number include getting the fuel to the ICE you describe?
Nope. (Score:2)
Short answer, no.
Long answer, not in the foreseeable future, unless someone strikes their best luck.
Metal air batteries (lithium in particular) suffer from a bajillion problem that are not even close to solving in the lab, let alone in a device.
Someone might within 5 years come up with a working lab demonstrator, but something with enough power to move a car (and a "sports" car as a Tesla at that) is way off, considering the current state of research. So considering that the patents will be expired when the
Re: (Score:2)
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
No. (Score:2)
These are probably defensive patents.
Range extender (Score:2)
According to the Phinergy link, they're using the battery as a range extender.
They propose that an electric car would have Lithium rechargeable batteries, and also a fuel-air battery (55 lbs of extra weight). You would charge your car normally for "drive around town" daily use, but have the extended range when you need it. (Such as, when you suddenly have to drive out to the Everglades to get rid of a body.)
At 1000 miles per battery and 20 MPG times $4/Gal = $200. If they can make the unit cost less than th
Not really a battery (Score:2)
Although some folks call this energy source a metal-air "battery", since it has an anode and cathode and an electrolyte, in many situations, more like a metal-air fuel cell than a "battery" as its anode is consumed in a reaction that is not efficiently reversable from an energy point of view (if at all in some varients) and thus not rechargeable in the traditional sense of an automobile battery.
Of course, this doesn't make it unusable. In fact, quick mechanical replacemement of the fuel that stores the ene
Smells like a rotten patent (Score:2)
So they're patenting the use of a metal-air battery to power a car?
Exhausted combination patent anyone?
Re: (Score:2)
So they're patenting the use of a metal-air battery to power a car?
Exhausted combination patent anyone?
It can't be that simple.
Metal Air fuel cells are not new (Score:2)
Alcan tried to commercialize the aluminum-air battery 30 years ago, and largely failed. They even spun off a subsidiary called Alupower, here's their patent portfolio: http://www.patentgenius.com/assignee/AlupowerInc.html [patentgenius.com]
A more knowledgable article here. [aluminum.org]
Re: (Score:3)
If only it were possible to edit comments.
Here's the key, and definative patent for air-metal batteries using a liquid electrolyte [google.com]. Notice the date on that sucker.
Re: (Score:3)
We will buy it....in droves.
Re: (Score:3)
They can't.
The Lotus Elise is no more.
Re: (Score:2)
I thought I'd heard they did actually have a plan B for this to get the body made for a *new* roadster?
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe buy Evora bodies. They are not that far apart.
Re: (Score:2)
Whatever they do...PLEASE start making the roadster again, put the battery in it, and get it down to the price level of a Vette.
We will buy it....in droves.
I'm the opposite of you - I was drooling for the Model S much more than I ever did for the Roadster. For each one of you, I'm betting that Tesla sees many more folks like me.
Research on Metal Air Battery by IBM (Score:4, Informative)
Several years ago I read that IBM set up a team on researching Metal Air Battery ... lemme search the link ... ah, found it
http://researcher.watson.ibm.com/researcher/view_project.php?id=3203 [ibm.com]
The project started around 2009
Unfortunately there is no news on the Metal Air Battery project from IBM
If you have any info regarding the latest development(s), would you kindly share with us here?
Thanks !!
A link to another startup that is researching Metal Air battery --- http://gigaom.com/2013/03/01/fluidic-shows-a-peek-of-its-metal-air-batteries-for-off-and-on-the-grid/ [gigaom.com]
Relax (Score:2)
Re:If you build it..... (Score:5, Funny)
They will buy it, but seeing is believing
Do you think air batteries could become vapor ware?
Re:Rrrrrecharge (Score:4, Informative)
Metal-air batteries don't even pretend to be rechargables.
The little ones(most notably the zinc-air coin cells that pharmacies stock, heavily overpriced, in areas where gullible old people with hearing aids might find them) you just throw away.
The bigger ones are either a 'send back to factory' arrangement or a 'the anodes are an FRU' arrangement.
Re: (Score:3)
Metal-air batteries don't even pretend to be rechargables.
Right. Remember, primary batteries have higher energy densities than rechargable batteries. An electric car loaded up with non-rechargeable lithium batteries would have a range over twice what it has with rechargeables. Then the batteries would have to be replaced.
Someone might do this for a race car. As a production product, not too useful.
Re: (Score:2)
Why?
If the battery costs less than the equivalent amount of gas it could work.
Re: (Score:2)
There's no reason to assume that the battery can't be mounted in such a way as to be easily swappable. You might not get your minimum-wage gas station attendant to do it, but you can spend a bit of money on someone who knows what they're doing and still be ahead of gas. It's all just chicken/egg shit - not enough people to make battery-swapping stations economical, not enough battery-swapping stations to make people want electric cars.
Re: (Score:2)
No, it gets one cycle and you have to add water.
Re: (Score:2)
I've just poured hot grits down my pants.
You should have poured distilled water into your metal-air battery instead. Instead, your car has ground to a halt.
Also you now have hot grits in your pants.
Re: (Score:2)
Series hybrids are really inefficient in small sizes. I've built one. It mostly sucked.
They have to do all the convoluted series-parallel shit because it's the only thing that even gets you a slight edge over straight gasoline in those sizes.
I think someone once said the first rule of engineering is that nothing scales. That's true for scaling down as well. The things that work well in a 4400HP train engine that rarely varies its output aren't going to necessarily work in a 150HP car that has to go zero
Re: (Score:2)
Can we just go to diesel at least?
How about selling a nice low drag vehicle without the expensive hybrid stuff. I am thinking Prius with Diesel Golf engine.
Re: (Score:2)
http://www.loremo.com/ [loremo.com]
Re: (Score:2)
Also, the caparison to trains is invalid, as trains generally aren't hy
Re: (Score:2)
I've seen people around Austin run around with plug in Priuses or Nissan Leafs that have a cargo rack and a Honda 2000 watt generator sitting in it.
There are other ways too. An genset can be mounted under the vehicle with a gas tank. When the battery dips below a certain voltage, it fires up.
I agree -- focus on building a top notch electric vehicle, and build in a electric generator, such as an offering from Onan or Kohler. A Honda inverter would be the ideal, because it runs at a variable RPM, letting t
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Why would sustainability become a problem?
Aluminum is recycled not lost, so no worries there. A lot of electricity will be needed for that, but that is already true.
Re: (Score:2)