ICANN's Cozy Relationship With the US Must End, Says EU 193
alphadogg writes "The exclusive relationship of ICANN with the U.S. must end, said the European Union's digital agenda chief on Wednesday. California-based ICANN is responsible for the assignment of top-level domains and has a long-standing operating agreement with the U.S. However, following the revelations by Edward Snowden of widespread surveillance of the Internet by the National Security Agency, many countries have questioned the arrangement. The historical relationship, noted in ICANN's Affirmation of Commitments, is outdated and the governance of the Internet must become more global, said the E.U. Digital Agenda Commissioner Neelie Kroes. Kroes was presenting the European Commission's new policy on Internet governance, which rejects any United Nations or governmental takeover of Internet governance and calls for a move to globalize ICANN."
Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm failing to understand the issue here. Anything ICANN does is essentially public. Any changes to domain IP addresses have to propagate out to everyone, so it's not like they could cause traffic to be arbitrarily rerouted, etc. Sounds like just another straw man attempt to get the ICANN out of the US.
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Canada (Score:2)
Best of both worlds :)
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Worse than that. A lot of countries outside the US would likely use ICANN to restrict content. China might want to restrict websites which talk about all sorts of things. European countries would want to restrict hate speech and Holocaust denial. Islamic countries would want to restrict blasphemous websites. Etc. For all the many faults of the US, ICANN is one thing that must stay in US hands if we value free speech.
DNS filtering is already happening... there are pros and cons, it'll never be standardized or required by international law.
An no, don't tell me to trust the US to safe guard free speech... You openly violate human right, torture and spy illegally on millions of people on a unprecedented scale. (Don't tell me spying is legal, it's a clear violation human rights convention). Oh, and skip the arguments, that the human rights convention shouldn't be honored, I don't even want to hear it.
Fact of the matter
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To be completely fair, the European countries were only weak because we invented all the new and exciting ways to crush each other back into the stone age and then just HAD to try them out, with predictably debilitating results. Russia was awfully lucky that we were all more interested in fighting each other. Imagine if the UK had said 'Well, bad luck France and Belgium, Fritz won fair and square' and then we all sat back in our deck chairs and watched. You'd have had no one to invite you to the party!
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"Worse than that. A lot of countries outside the US would likely use ICANN to restrict content."
So what would change? The US already does this. The ICE domain seizures of legitimate overseas businesses were only possible because ICANN is a US entity and this was worse than Chinese censorship because it was cross-border international censorship carried out unilaterally by the US. At least in an international setting the censorship would merely be local or shot down due to lack of consensus. Right now the US
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Any changes to domain IP addresses...
I don't think that's the only thing ICANN does all day, is it?
Anything ICANN does is essentially public.
What about their reasons for doing what they do (do)?
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I'm also sure that the GCHQ is equally interested in getting their hands on said keys.
UK invented HTTP. (Score:2, Funny)
So we get that little bonus.
We inveted your language. We get that little bonus.
France invented your democratic process. They get that little bonus.
Scotland invented the TV, they get that little bonus.
Oh, no, you're merkins, therefore American Exceptionalism To The RESCUE!!!!
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The countries that invented that particular item can go ahead and specify anything they want inside their borders. If countries outside those borders don't like it, then they can ignore it.
ICANN is no different. Don't like it? Then go make your own. Just because the internet has gained universal acceptance doesn't mean you get a say in how it's administered in the US. There is nothing saying you can't stick a bunch computers between your country and the internet
Re:UK invented HTTP. (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course you are right, but we in the US also have a vested interest in keeping the internet coherent as much as possible. Giving the EU more control might eventually be in our best interest. After all, we, too, can always separate from them if they steer in a direction that we do not like.
What I absolutely do not support is UN control. The UN is primarily there to prevent nuclear powers from going to war, and thus far it has done a fine job of that. Most of the members are shitheads with far more restrictive speech laws than the US. The EU, on the other hand, really only differs from the US in hate speech. If they could be persuaded to not enforce hate speech laws through ICANN, I don't have a problem with giving them influence.
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The EU, on the other hand, really only differs from the US in hate speech
They also differ in many things considered as "outrageous" or "inappropriate" in the US and not in the EU.
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Yes, though the US in turn seems to weigh copyright claims very heavily. In any case, my ideal for ICANN is that it not be used as a censorship tool. There should be concrete rules for proper records and settling ownership disputes, and that's about it. If a government wants to censor a site, they should refer to the proper records and act if it is within their jurisdiction.
Re: UK invented HTTP. (Score:2)
Re: UK invented HTTP. (Score:2, Informative)
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Right, but the UK isn't the EU. In fact, the UK wants to leave the EU precisely because it's mostly populated by ignorant xenophobic pricks who still hold imperial era fantasies of what our country is so it's about as far from a typical example of an EU state as you can get. The UK actually lowers the average level of freedom, respect, and rights of the EU by quite a large amount due to a combination of it's size and it's over the top support for things like America's extraordinary rendition and other right
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Exactly. The call for "control of the Internet" to go to the UN is really a call by some countries to outlaw anything online that they find offensive/inconvenient/annoying/etc. I can post a rant about President Obama using horrible language and even some claims that have been disproved a dozen times and I'm perfectly fine unless I make a threat on his life. In which case, expect a visit from the Secret Service as it
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To some extent I agree with you. I even feel that, for all its flaws, the US is probably a more reliable steward of the Internet than just about any other nation or international body I can think of.
At the same time, if we allow the Internet to be fractured even more than it already is, we will lose one of the great technological innovations of the latter half of the 20th century.
So I sit on the fence over the whole thing, not really all the keen that some international body, some of whose members will be n
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Lately it seems that every government is trying to control the internet. So whoever is going to control the internet, it must not be a government or organization of governments. Or a commercial corporation. I vote for a non-profit organization consisting of different people from different countries who understand technology. This is basically what ICANN is, but without the US Government controlling it. Let's move ICANN's office from California to Switzerland or something.
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I don't, mainly because I'm pretty sure everyone else is doing it to. It sucks, but the idea that the NSA alone is spying on everything is BS. We know the Germans, French and Chinese are doing it, and I suspect the only countries that are not are countries that don't have the financial capacity to do so.
Yes, we can ignore it (Score:2)
If countries outside those borders don't like it, then they can ignore it.
Be careful what you wish for. There seems to be an increasing sentiment almost everywhere that the US is getting far too big for its boots and it is in the best interests of other nations to distance themselves and reduce their dependence on US-controlled interests.
To that end, it is certainly technically possible for an alternative internet to be developed that is independent of the US, and for all of the essential infrastructure to be distributed globally. In fact, for many reasons starting over and fixin
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Duuuude, don't say that. People will think you're defending the Slashdot Beta and that it's their site to do what they want with.
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We inveted your language. We get that little bonus.
Which is why you maintain control of the Oxford English Dictionary. When we became America we didn't like it, so Daniel Webster made our own Americanized dictionary, instead of trying to insert our opinions/culture into your dictionary. You're free to do the same with whatever shitty network you have inside your borders.
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Re:UK invented HTTP. (Score:4, Funny)
It evolved from a conglomeration of Germanic, French, and Latin.
Evolution is heresy. Jesus spoke perfect US English the moment he rode a dinosaur out of his virgin mother's cooch. Yippee ki-yay.
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Yes, a Briton invented http, but we've forgiven the UK, especially since we've found a way around most of its limitations.
Farnsworth- one of many [Re:UK invented HTTP.] (Score:2)
So we get that little bonus. ...
We inveted your language. We get that little bonus.
France invented your democratic process. They get that little bonus.
Scotland invented the TV, they get that little bonus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo_Farnsworth
I think the mormon's invented the useful TV....
Well, partly. Much as I love Philo T. Farnsworth:
inventors.about.com/od/tstartinventions/a/Television.htm [about.com]
But, actually, Scottland has a decent claim. From that universal reference source, Wikipedia (and if you don't like what they say, write something else!):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_television [wikipedia.org]
"On March 25, 1925, Scottish inventor John Logie Baird gave the first public demonstration of televised silhouette images in motion, at Selfridge's Department Store in London.[7] AT&T's Bell Telephone La
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Actually the 'US' country code is a weird one that covers a dozen-odd countries (all in North America). Canada being the other large one, but the NANP includes many Carribean countries too (with them essentially being assigned a North American area code as their de facto country code). This is for historical reasons. You don't see this occurring many other places - in all other regions, countries generally have distinct country codes. Two digits at a minimum, some three. Russia is the only exception I can t
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and Klingon
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Don't forget Quenya.
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Also, for what little it's worth, John Logie Baird was [1066.net] in [answers.com] Hastings, England, when he invented the television (though he was Scottish).
Who did the real inventing: man or city? Who am I to say?
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The US weapons probably work.
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Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you trust the US government? If so you are the only one that does.
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If so you are the only one that does.
Hyperbole much?
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Commerce, actually.
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The inventor of the computer is actually John Atanasoff: http://www.computerhistory.org... [computerhistory.org]
He claimed, successfully, the title
Were those who awarded him the title aware of the Zuse Z3 (it's two items above the ABC item on the page whose URL you cited [computerhistory.org] (note: HTML, despite being a British rather than an all-American invention, isn't that hard to use, and if you use it when posting to /., URLs automatically get turned into links you can click)? It, unlike the ABC, was programmable, although it wasn't stored-program (it was programmed with punched tape) and didn't have, for example, conditional branches.
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Pretty convenient that the first of the new gTLDs approved were in Arabic, Chinese and Russian.
See: http://tech.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]
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"The standards are open for anyone to make their own [nation]net. With that in mind, it sure looks like everyone is leeching off the US-net and then whining that it isn't being twisted to their favored totalitarianisms and oppressions.
We have a special salute prepared for this kind of demand, and 90% of our citizens practice it regularly."
Precisely. There is nothing -- absolutely and literally nothing -- preventing any country from operating its own "intranet" and connecting or not connecting to the one operated by ICANN or not, as they please. Like China, for instance.
In fact, I am in favor of this approach. Set up one, big, international, NEUTRAL hub. (Which is basically what ICANN is, but whatever. Some people don't like the arrangment.) It should NOT be government-controlled, in any sense, by anybody. The UN is definitely out. To be p
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"ICANN isn't independent of the US government because they will be arrested and detained (even if it requies extrajudician extraction) to face criminal charges. "
Do you listen to YOURSELF?
Arrested and detained FOR WHAT?
Yes, I agree that they reside in the United States, but the kind of situation you describe has never happened.
The UN building is in the U.S. Do you see U.N. officials getting arrested on a regular basis? The UN doesn't exactly always act in U.S. interest.
So what's your point?
China has the right idea. (Score:1)
Harbinger of disaster? (Score:2)
If not the UN then who? (Score:2)
We're just a single-digit percentage of the world's total population, yet we've got (at the moment, anyway) an inordinate amount of power of the shape and direction of the Internet as a whole.
I think the power of ICANN and the US is rather greatly overstated when it comes to the internet.
I personally don't think that the U.N. is the body that should have control over the course and form of the Internet
Ok, fair enough. Who should then? I hear this all the time how people dislike the UN for various reasons that they always seem unable to articulate but honestly I can't think of any other body better positioned to play quasi-neutral arbiter. Of course politics are going to play a role - doesn't matter who ultimately is the controlling body. If you don't like the UN filling this role then who else do you prop
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The UN's general assembly is a democratic body with one vote for each participating government. Most of the governments of the world are broken.
Ergo the general assembly is broken. Look at what the general assembly does on a day to day basis and you will find confirmation.
Most people that understand the UN could explain this to you. Perhaps you weren't listening?
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The UN's general assembly is a democratic body with one vote for each participating government. Most of the governments of the world are broken. Ergo the general assembly is broken.
If you think the UN really works like that you don't really understand how it works. The more powerful governments have influence over the less powerful. Furthermore relatively little [un.org] is done through the General Assembly which is just one part of the UN and not necessarily the most important part.
I don't really care if the UN or the US controls the internet. I do however suspect that the 95% of the world that is not the US will sooner or later decide to circumvent ICANN at some point if they don't change
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Apparently you didn't read my entire comment because you missed shortly after that where I said that I don't know who or what should be shaping the Internet in the future.
Oh I saw it. And my question remains. If you don't like the UN (for reasons you failed to enumerate) then who else? Saying it shouldn't be the UN when you have no one else in mind is pointless. Even saying we should leave it with ICANN is some sort of an answer.
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How about an independent non-profit organization.
Headline (Score:2)
The headline should read:
ICANN's Cozy Relationship With the US Must End, Says ____________ [insert name of any country not spelled "United States of America" here]
Globalize where? (Score:4, Insightful)
So the problem seems to be that ICANN is an american corporation, and thus subject to the laws of the US, and that in turn, could be used against foreign powers?
The solution then is to 'globalize' it? Where is it going to be 'globalized' to? Which country could it exist in where it would have immunity to any laws and act with impunity in regards to them?
When I see the complaints against it by China, Russia, the EU, and so on, they're always advocating more restrictions, protection of their interests. They want the ability to blacklist sites that talk about their politicians, that discuss unfavorable religions or religious rights, that cover alternative lifestyles such as gay or transgender, and so on. They want to do it without arbitration, automatically.
What they really are complaining about is that they don't have absolute control over it, and they want it. Everything else is just a pleasant lie or deliberate misdirection.
Let's be fair; the US has more than it's fair share of faults, but our definition of freedom is still incredibly wide reaching compared with the vast majority of countries in the world, and we're big enough to make it hard to push us around with political power alone. That's the big problem they're seeing. ... besides, use of the current DNS registry system is entirely voluntary. There's nothing to stop someone from coming up with their own, like the TOR network did. If it's better, people will use it over the current one. Though, I think they realize that any replacement that is more strictly controlled will never be considered 'better', so they need to subvert the current one.
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I have the solution. Sealand should run ICANN.
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When I see the complaints against it by China, Russia, the EU, and so on, they're always advocating more restrictions, protection of their interests. They want the ability to blacklist sites that talk about their politicians, that discuss unfavorable religions or religious rights, that cover alternative lifestyles such as gay or transgender, and so on. They want to do it without arbitration, automatically.
So when did the EU (as opposed to China or Russia) advocate those things and indicate that it wants those abilities?
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The solution then is to 'globalize' it? Where is it going to be 'globalized' to? Which country could it exist in where it would have immunity to any laws and act with impunity in regards to them?
It needs to be trans-national, and we already have organisations like that - the UN itself is an example.
"Must" does not mean what you think it means (Score:4, Funny)
The US "must" do this? I do not think that word means what you think it means.
I can see why the EU and/or UN would want the US to give up control over the ICANN contract, but every time this comes up, I have yet to see a single reason presented as to why the US would agree to do it.
Diplomacy involves the practical application of either the proverbial Carrot or Stick or Both. "Do this or I'll write further Official Letters demanding it" is not much of a stick, and it certainly isn't a carrot.
Re: "Must" does not mean what you think it means (Score:2, Insightful)
It's quite simple really: The US cannot prevent losing control, but they can have it happen in an orderly way and perhaps get a better position in the resulting system.
You see, it's not like there is some magical Key To the Internet which is stored in a bunker in Oregon and which you can choose to either hand over or not. It's also not something you really can defend with guns to prevent other countries from having it.
It's rather more like having control over the rules of international air traffic. If you d
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The disorderly way might be setting up a parallel organization and start disregarding ICANN.
LOL good luck with that, bro.
What would you change? (Score:2)
Firstly, I'm not "offended" that the EU would like control of the ICANN contract. I'm simply stating diplomatic realities that simply demanding something when you offer no good reason for the other party to comply is empty grandstanding.
What, specifically, has the US Dept. of Commerce made ICANN do that it would no longer do if it's contract was turned over to another political body? What problem, specifically, with the US owning the ICANN contract are you trying to solve?
And again, why would the US agree
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Uh, I can see reasons. Actually, I see little except reasons, because quite obviously, ICANN is utterly insane and horrible, and the insanity it displays is clearly american in spirit - the same "we know everything, go fuck yourself, our way or the highway" attitude that the USA displays to the rest of the world.
Read what I wrote (Score:2)
I didn't say there were no reasons that it might be nice if ICANN was not under a US contract.
What I said was that there aren't any reasons for the US to go along with this plan. No national government is in the business of giving away power to other countries simply because those other countries want it.
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Oh yes, all the way with you on that. The US is not going to give up any control of anything willingly. Heck, you guys still have soldiers stationed in Germany almost 70 years after WW2.
US stewardship sucks less (Score:2)
The stewardship the US has exercised has been far from perfect, and recent years have shown it to be even worse than previously believed. But for all that, even within the context of recent revelations, it has still proven considerably less-intolerable of a steward than any other proposal yet put forward.
For all the EU's talk of Internet freedom, most nations have moved to curtail it within their own borders, and their efforts have achieved considerably more support within their borders than the correspondi
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I think you are underestimating the level of distrust there is for the US at the moment.
I don't think I am, actually. I have bent over backwards to make conciliatory gestures to the more extreme camps, pointing out at every turn that the current situation is not a good one even as I demonstrate how it remains preferable to the currently-known alternatives. I realize there is nothing I can do to satisfy the outright irrational elements out there, but where I see the possibility for reasoned discussion, I take it.
I can't really think of any entity I would trust less in the "can I trust them not to abuse this power in every way they can think of"-way (in the competence-sense, certainly).
Are you telling me that BRIC (Brazil/Russia/India/China) doesn't rush immediately t
Very Little Correlation (Score:2)
nice logic (Score:2)
Invent your own internet then (Score:2)
We invented the internet, if it wasn't for DARPA and Al Gore, there would be no ICANN. Just like with GPS. If you don't like the US version, build your own.
Nevermind that Europe, while better on privacy rights, is far worse on freedom of speech rights. Technical measures can help with privacy but it is very hard to overcome freedom of speech restrictions with software ('m talking rights to, not the ability to. Ability means nothing if it lands you in jail or your speech is removed)
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Nevermind that Europe, while better on privacy rights, is far worse on freedom of speech rights.
Not sure where you get this from, but I see this nonsense reiterated quite a bit here.
I'd be perfectly fine here sitting in the middle of Germany and saying that I'd like to see Israel get bombed flat or that the Jews are inferior people. Sure, people will think I'm an asshole, but there's no law against that. There is however a law that forbids you to claim that there was not a huge number of jews killed in WW2 or that concentration camps don't exist.
The French hate speech laws are of a similar nature, sol
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Except that isn't true. Various jurisdictions in Europe have problematical laws and positions regarding free speech on the internet that you haven't touched on.
Some examples include abusive libel laws, especially in GB, and lese-majesty laws still in force in Norway, Spain, Denmark and the Netherlands.
Belgium has a long history of blocking web sites that are engaged in 'naughty' activities such as sharing files, scalping tickets and selling drugs such as diet pills online.
France has in place three-strike le
Don't put a bandaid on it (Score:2)
No ITU (Score:2)
At least they appear to get it with regard to the UN; the US will never submit control of ICANN's many responsibilities to ITU or any other UN snuggery and deserves the eternal gratitude of the entire species for that profound wisdom.
So at least their "new policy" hasn't automatically obviated itself.
They can draw up all the resolutions they like... (Score:2)
But there's exactly jack and shit they can do if ICANN and the US tell them to fuck off.
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They might take ICANN's advice: And use a non-ICANN international internet naming system. ICANN would then be limited to the US's intranet, if that.
Which they'd likely have LESS control over.
Meaning their "third option" is to spend out money they don't have already and don't really want to spend to build out a naming system themselves.
This is why they're making power grabs for ICANN. The work's already done, dusted and paid for. If they can steal^H^H^H^co-opt it, they don't have to do any real work or incur any real expenses themselves.
Free Speech (Score:3)
UN Internet Control Explained! (Score:2)
First Guy: Look, I made this incredible communication device!
Other Guys: Wow. Cool! Can we use it?
First Guy: Sure!
Other Guys: OK, but we own it now, OK?
First Guy: Uh......
Answer (Score:2)
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If you had made it to the end of the summary, you'd see that they are in fact asking for decentralisation and reject the role of the UN or any other single body in its operation.
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But who will then collect all the money for those TLD's?
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They want the current DNS hierarchy to be split into different hierarchies that all follow the same model. They want to turn US control into country or EU control. Same nonsense, different tyrants.
What the world needs is something peer2peer and cryptographically strong.
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Same nonsense, different tyrants.
EU Commission is far worse: they never ever have to cope with citizen
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De-centralized DNS would be better.
That would be the only true solution. The current DNS setup sucks.
NameCoin was the only workable distributed DNS solution I've seen, and it never prevented the domain squatting problem. Do you know of any better projects?
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Zooko’s Triangle tells us it isn't an easy problem to solve.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z... [wikipedia.org]
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It's time the US did the right thing and opened up ICANN as an internationally let consortium, instead of a consortium that puts domestic needs first.
It time the EU did the right thing and went and fucked itself.
Metaphorically speaking by not keeping a check on the spending of some of the Southern countries (Greece and Spain spring to mind) - it has.
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It time the EU did the right thing and went and fucked itself.
What happened to thinking win-win? You suggest the US should remain the power hungry tyrant, the EU wants a new power hungry tyrant.
A decent peer2peer DNS reimplementation would remove the need for any tyrants at all.
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You've got it backwards. It's the Greeks, Spanish, Portuguese, Italians and Irish that are pounding their benefactors to the north.
That might change, but I doubt it. So far it's all theater.
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The winner! [Re:Lost cause] (Score:3)
I've given up on the internet.
Posting "I've given up on the internet" on the internet wins today's oxymoron prize.
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What does Net Neutrality have to do with ICANN in the first place?
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Since names can be so political and controversial, I propose that we just simply use a numerical address.
Fits right in with ICANN, "Numbers" being what the second "N" stands for.
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What a careless comment. Many were terminated for much less. He's now a target of US regime.
If by "he" you mean "the European Union's digital agenda chief", if the US government looks for a "he", then Ms. Kroes [europa.eu] is safe.
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You did not. Switzerland did.