Uber Is Now Cheaper Than a New York City Taxi 139
redletterdave writes Uber announced in a blog post on Monday it would cut the prices of its UberX service in New York City by 20% — but it's only for a limited time. Uber says this makes it cheaper to use UberX than taking a taxi. Consumers like Uber's aggressive pricing strategy but competitors — and some of its own drivers — are not as happy. UberX, Uber’s cheaper service usually hosted by regular people driving basic sedans rather than fancy black cars, also cut its rates by 25% last week in the Bay Area, including San Francisco, San Jose, and Oakland. As a result of that announcement, Uber said its service was effectively “45% cheaper than a taxi.”
And in other news (Score:5, Informative)
The amount of insurance carried by Uber drivers is also probably much less than NY taxis.
Re:And in other news (Score:5, Informative)
Not to mention that Uber drivers probably aren't paying as much as $1 million [nytimes.com] for a single taxicab license.
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having to pay for a license to drive ppl around is ridiculous. in england, in order to be a taxi driver, you have to take a test saying you know at least 90% of the roads.... this is just plain dumb... we have gps for that.
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That's only for one limited elite class of taxi drivers, the London Black Cab driver.
The exam you're referring to is called "The Knowledge". Minicab (pre-booked hire car) drivers in London do not need "The Knowledge", but driving a black cab has a certain cachet that means they can charge higher fares - you know you're getting a driver that knows his way around beyond the cold and unadorned data that a GPS navigator can provide. The privilege for this differentiation is that only licensed taxi drivers are a
Re:And in other news (Score:5, Informative)
NYC Taxis have to carry $100k (per person) / $300k (per incident) liability insurance. That's the same for Uber drivers.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/do... [nyc.gov]
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Uber drivers are covered by a lot less when they are looking but have not accepted a fare.
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No, that's wrong. When they are not carrying passengers, they simply have lower legal requirements, but their actual coverage is likely higher than the minimum legal requirements.
And what difference does it make anyway? Why shouldn't the same insurance rates apply to everybody, simply based on mileage, driving history, and vehicle type? I mean, if I wanted to pick out a category of drivers to charge more, it would be mothers with children in their cars (they are dangerous), not Uber drivers looking for ride
Re:And in other news (Score:4, Insightful)
Remember that adage that 90% of car accidents happens 5 minutes away from the departure point or 5 minutes before the arrival point? Guess what a taxi service is constantly doing...
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Remember that adage that 90% of car accidents happens 5 minutes away from the departure point or 5 minutes before the arrival point?
No, because that is nonsense. The actual* figure is 52% (not 90%) of accidents occur withing 5 miles (not five minutes). But that is not because driving within that radius is particularly dangerous, but simply because most driving occurs within that radius.
* This figure comes from a survey [progressive.com] conducted by Progressive Insurance in 2002. Many articles attribute the study to the NHTSA, and often exaggerate the percentage, or the distance, or both.
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To tack on... ...I explain this to my wife constantly. The reason most accidents happen close to your home is exactly as you said -- most driving occurs close to your home. I use it as a reason to have her buckle up even for short trips, but it's also a lesson in our house about manipulating statistics.
Coming up next, the percentage of American's that live "near" water.
Re:And in other news (Score:4, Funny)
The reason most accidents happen close to your home is exactly as you said -- most driving occurs close to your home.
So don't drive anywhere near this guy's home.
Also stop paying attention hear home (Score:2)
Because you are used to the area, you do not think about driving as much near home - instead thinking about what you will do where you are going or when you get home, when you are close. It's easy to grow inattentive and miss a change that leads to an accident.
Picking someone up and dropping someone off has none of the risks of familiarity since each situation is different.
Re:And in other news (Score:5, Insightful)
Consider the scenario where you are standing on a street corner and a car comes rushing towards you at a high rate of speed. Collision is imminent. You're going to survive the impact, but you'll be paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of your life.
If the car that crippled you was operated by an employee of a cab company, it might mean that a legal settlement would be reached such that you'd spend the rest of your life at your house with inhouse nurse care.
If the car was an Uber driver rushing down the street to pick up a customer before becoming inpatient and choosing a different car in the app, well, I hope you have substantial insurance through your own job. When you attempt to sue Uber over your injuries, they'll say they have no liability in the matter because their driver wasn't on the clock with a passenger. And they'll exert significant legal resources to prevent creating a precedent that'll put them out of business. They'll happily spend more fighting your case than the amount for which your suing. In this scenario, you're likely to have to live at an institution to be provided needed medical care for the rest of your life.
As for your stereotyping of mothers with infants, the most common cause of car accidents is distracted driving due to cellphone usage [marketwatch.com]. Seems that Uber drivers looking for fares would strongly fit into that category....
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I don't know how it is in the US, but in some countries, all drivers must be insured against hurting third parties. You lament about how if an Uber driver hits you they are less insured than a taxi. That's cold comfort when 99% of the cars are neither a taxi nor Uber, yet they might hit you.
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What difference does it make if it's an Uber driver or any other driver who paralyzes you? If you think this is a serious problem, then insurance limits need to be raised for everybody, and/or get yourself disability insurance if your state doesn't already require it (many do).
But instead of making that argument, you pick some small group of people and try to stick it to them. I wish you sincerely that you'll be at the receiving end of such stupid knee-jerk legislation yourself.
And if you think you can get
Cab companies are not LLCs (Score:3)
Difference being that Uber is sucking up around $213,000,000 per year by avoiding significant insurance coverages that their competitors are having to pay. They're offloading this chunk of the insurance burden on their 'independent contractors' who are not able to cover injuries like a $1 Billion / year revenue company can.
What does it matter? It's the difference between being compensated properly for a life-chan
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In the UK all drivers must have insurance by law which is minimum 1 million public liability. Is this not true in the US? And if insurance is mandatory then insurers should have rules re hiring out their car, if they don't then it's their own fault if they have to pay out, that's how insurance works.
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Each state has its own rules on that issue. Most have pathetically low requirements (a quick Googling shows that most places require $50k)
That being said, I believe $100k/$300k (injury per person/total injury per accident) is the typical policy
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It's $1,7100,000 due to exchange rate. And it doesn't cost more, I think it's less on average due to better standard of driving here. Yes insurance on average costs about 20% more this is partly due to the pound being strong, dollar weak. Also of note is that there is a fraud epidemic happening at the moment, the price of insurance here has doubled over the last 7 years.
So higher liability does not equal higher insurance because those higher amounts are extremely rarely if ever claimed.
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The difference is the actual time spent driving. someone driving to make money is spending 6-8 hours or more on the road and as such their risk of being in a serious accident increases accordingly and thereby the risk they pose to the insurance company. Professional drivers or those that provide public transport are normally charged extra to accommodate for the extra risk and costs associated with that risk.
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And it would be even better, if the taxis are all government-owned — in which case you'll get a truly gold-plated care, will you not? Heck, some of the poor may choose to stand on busy intersections just for that reason — would not that be terrific?
Do I hear a proposal to nationalize al
Re: And in other news (Score:1)
Health insurance doesn't cover in-home care, exactly his point.
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Uber drivers are covered by a lot less when they are looking but have not accepted a fare.
Not in NYC. Same insurance requirements, since they're all regulated livery car drivers.
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Around here, you also have to declare and insure for a 'purpose', not just a liability amount. After all, $1 million dollar liability on a sunny summer weekends only car is less than the same risk as a Taxi.
Around here, there is, in order of increasing cost:
Pleasure (pleasure use only, a couple days per month commuting are ok)
Commuting (driving to and from work, not "for work" itself - different sub classes depending on how far you commute)
Business (drive for work, meeting customers etc)
Delivery -- For the
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Around here, you also have to declare and insure for a 'purpose', not just a liability amount. After all, $1 million dollar liability on a sunny summer weekends only car is less than the same risk as a Taxi.
Around here, there is, in order of increasing cost:
Pleasure (pleasure use only, a couple days per month commuting are ok)
Commuting (driving to and from work, not "for work" itself - different sub classes depending on how far you commute)
Business (drive for work, meeting customers etc)
Delivery -- For the delivery class there are sub classes depending on what type of vehicle, and what is being delivered. Pizza drivers need this I know from personal experience. And I bet anything that 'delivering people' or 'taxi' insurance is in here to, that uber drivers would be required to have it, and that many do not.
Again, in NYC, Uber drivers carry the same insurance that taxis or any other livery car driver carriers. It's commercial vehicle insurance.
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Uber drivers carry the same insurance
I'm not questioning if they *should*; I question whether they DO.
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I'm not questioning if they *should*; I question whether they DO.
That doesnt seem to have stopped you from continuing to be in the "question" state instead of the "answered" state.
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Ah well, that's settled then.
Then again...
âoeI went to Geico, filled out an application and told them I was going to transport people,â he says. âoeThe application was declined as âundesirable.â(TM)â
[...]
You can see my dilemma. It seems to me the only way to comply with Uber by getting personal insurance would be to misrepresent my use of the vehicle, which I do not feel comfortable with. My conclusion from this indicates that
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Again, Uber in NYC is different. All their drivers (including UberX drivers) have commercial licenses, and are driving Taxi & Limo Commission certified cars, with commercial plates.
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Pleasure is usually the catch-all for when your needs don't really fit into any other category. It implies joyriding, and is one of the most expensive.
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NYC Taxis have to carry $100k (per person) / $300k (per incident) liability insurance. That's the same for Uber drivers.
But how much do you want to be that UberX drivers dont have that level of liability insurance. Here in Australia private car insurance (the kind everyone has on their car) does not cover business use, so if you're using your car for mini-cabbing (Uber isn't new, it's just Mini cabbing with a web 2.0 interface) your insurance wont cover you (also in my state, you're driving an unregistered vehicle because with private registration you get a tax cut off the cost of business rego). But Uber will flounder and
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Again, in NYC (not everywhere, NYC is the exception), Uber drivers, including UberX, have to have commercial licenses, and their cars have commercial plates. They also have commercial insurance.
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That's rather low, UK car drivers insurance covers £1m minimum which is currently about $1,7,100,000.
Re:And in other news (Score:4, Informative)
Not according to Uber's web site [uber.com].
If you’re taking a ride requested through UberBLACK, UberSUV, or uberTAXI, your livery or taxi transportation provider carries a commercial insurance policy in at least the minimum amount required by local regulations. If you didn’t get his or her insurance information at the time of the accident, please reach out to us so we can connect you.
If you’re taking a ride requested through uberX, some transportation providers are rideshare drivers providing transportation with their personal vehicles. Rideshare providers carry personal insurance policies. In addition, there’s a commercial insurance policy with $1 million of coverage per incident. This policy covers drivers’ liability from the time a driver accepts your trip request through the app until the completion of your trip. This policy is in addition to the driver’s own policy, but it acts as primary insurance if the driver’s policy is not available for any reason. An additional insurance policy covers drivers when they are logged into the Uber app but are not currently on a trip.
There is also uninsured/underinsured motorist coverage (UI/UIM) of $1 million per incident for bodily injury, in case another motorist causes an accident and doesn’t carry adequate insurance. So, for example, injuries caused by a hit-and-run accident would be covered by the UI/UIM.
For additional information, visit our blog: blog.uber.com/ridesharinginsurance
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What happens when an Uber driver hits me 30 seconds after completing a trip?
Sorry, it's in the same quote, but I forgot to bold that part:
[...] An additional insurance policy covers drivers when they are logged into the Uber app but are not currently on a trip.
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Yeah, it is easy to offer lower prices when you get to skip over the costs other people pay.
Its easy to prevent competition when you jack up the cost that other must pay to insane levels such as $1 million per medallion.
Let taxis suffer the regulatory capture that they themselves created. There is no reason for anyone else to suffer it.
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for most people in NY now.
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If this fact does not bother you, when you are getting a free ride from an acquaintance, it should not bother you, when you are riding Uber(X).
And if it still bothers you anyway, well, just hail an "official" cab.
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If I am hit by your acquaintance while they are giving you that free lift, their private insurance will cover my medical bills for as long as needed.
If I am hit by a taxi from a regulated company, their business insurance will cover my medical needs for as long as needed. The fact that they have adequate insurance is something that is checked by the taxi licensing people.
If I am hit by an Uber driver, well who knows how much insurance they have - Uber covers them for $1Million but that doesn't necessarily
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No, actually. Auto insurance policies have caps on them — $1mln is very common for private cars. Rich people are encouraged to pay for additional coverage (so as not to loose their house to a litigious victim), but it is not mandatory.
The "who knows" argument — also known as s
Re:And in other news (Score:4, Insightful)
For young and invincible drivers, its usually the older more mature drivers without that attitude that end up subsidizing them.
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so your ok with with a non taxi taxi hitting your car and then the they get to use EULA to get out of paying the cost to fix it? or what about if it was your kid that got killed and you where stuck with the bills?
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so your ok with with a non taxi taxi hitting your car and then the they get to use EULA to get out of paying the cost to fix it? or what about if it was your kid that got killed and you where stuck with the bills?
What difference does it make whether it is a taxi or a private car? A taxi shouldn't be required to have more collision insurance
for external collisions than any other car. You MIGHT be able to argue that they need more coverage for passengers but it makes
no sense to require them to have higher coverage for external collisions just because they are a taxi.
Re:And in other news (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course it makes sense. Insurance rates are based on risk. Are you claiming that a car that is on the road all day long, in very congested conditions, making frequent stops to pick up/drop off passengers has no more risk of being in a collision than any other vehicle?
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Not to mention driving to unfamiliar locations.
We "normal" drivers go strange places all the time, but the majority of our miles driven are on repeatable predictable paths to and from work and school and picking up the kids at Karate. Insurance calculates all of this.
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On the flip side, taxi drivers have many more hours behind the wheel. I thinks it's fair to say that there are many factors which contribute to both raise and lower a taxi's risk of getting into an accident.
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So far we've only come up with factors that raise the risk. What are the factors that lower it?
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On the other hand, taxi drivers have much more practice driving since they do it all day. So we can expect them to be involved in fewer accidents for this reason. And, as it turns out, cabbies are safer drivers than normal people: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/28/nyregion/28cabs.html
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A car may be on the road all day long for many different reasons. It makes sense for annual mileage to affect the cost of insurance — indeed, it is already factored in usually.
Singling out "commercial use" does not make sense.
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Rates are based primarily on number of miles driven which is already included in most insurance.
I can see the rates being higher for someone who drives more (or possibly for someone who does
more risky behavior if you can prove taxi driving is more risky) but there is no reason their
COVERAGE should be required to be higher. If a motorist is only required to have 10k of coverage
for hitting a pedestrian then why should a taxi be required to have more?
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No, not at all. My statement was only related to who subsidizes who's car insurance. Anything more was in your mind.
What? (Score:4, Interesting)
Every other city I have used it in, UberX was at a fair discount to a regular taxi...after all, why would you hop a ride in some random person's car (whom you will have to provide with directions because they don't know the city) if it costs more than an actual taxi service? The only thing more expensive was the black car (limo) service.
Re:What? (Score:4, Informative)
It appears so.
http://www.taxiautofare.com/us... [taxiautofare.com]
I didn't know taxi fare in NYC was so reasonable. I guess there is more competition in NYC. They also make up for it in quantity. Many other places the taxis sit around waiting for fares much longer.
Re:What? (Score:5, Informative)
Cab fares are regulated in NYC. Competition has nothing to do with it. http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/ht... [nyc.gov]
Re:What? (Score:5, Interesting)
Cab fares are regulated in NYC. Competition has nothing to do with it.
Shhh,
If you listen carefully you can hear the Randian's heads pop.
Everywhere I've travelled, the less regulated the taxi industry the more they take the piss and rip off customers. Thailand is a good example, in Bangkok taxis are cheap. From the Airport to the city centre is 400 Thai Baht + 70 Baht in tolls (approx 30 Baht == 1 USD), that's a distance of 35 KM and includes an airport fee. Taxi's are well regulated in Bangkok (its the same story in Singapore).
In Phuket, a taxi wont even turn on the engine for less than 200 Baht, it's less than that to get into a taxi in Australia. Taxi's aren't regulated at all, they operate like a Mafia using violence against their competition, ripping off customers. They sit there all day turning down paying customers because they aren't paying enough. The local Phuket govt isn't interested in doing anything (since the recent coup in Thailand, I've heard the army has been attempting to clean the taxi mafia up).
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There is a difference between regulation and anti-corruption.
Uber is showing that a deregulated system can work. You need true competition though and a government to enforce anti-monopoly policies and crack down on mafia corruption. Many cities over regulate the taxi industry and limit the number of cabs to a ridiculously low number to keep prices high. In your other case a mafia (a semi governmental entity in itself) is doing the same thing. //Randians are crazy, but there certainly is room for balance.
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Not really.
What Uber is trying to do is operate outside the law.
Because of this, Uber is one serious accident away from complete failure, doubly so in Australia. One serious crash and the insurance companies will come for blood. They'll pay out to the victims (including the passenger, but not the driver) and then come after Uber itself for compensation. That billion dollars in capital wont last long.
Uber is not a new idea, it's what is called "m
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Plus don't forget the "surge pricing" which, for some reason, always happen when you actually want to use the Uber :P As in, when it's raining, holiday, blah-blah
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I've horrible luck with NYC taxi drivers knowing the city.
By cross street, address, or landmark.
I don't fucking know how to get to the city courthouse, because I don't fucking live here, ugh. It's gotten a lot better in the last 5 years with smart phones, but a lot of them did not know the city, or have GPS up until then.
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Because that said random car will actually stop for you during peak hours, and all the taxi-holding medallions won't because they're overwhelmed. Have you ever tried hoping into a taxi that won't even slow down to pick you up?
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Usually when there is surge pricing, I just use Uber to hail a normal taxi (in cities where this is possible). With a normal taxi, you pay a small fee to Uber, but otherwise the rate is straight-meter. Of course, that still won't help if literally every taxi is full, but it gets you better odds than simply standing on a single street corner and waving your hand.
Reminds me of public transport here (Score:1)
1. Deregulation;
2. Big newcomer with huge financial backing undercuts established companies;
3. Everyone flocks to newcomer;
4. Established companies reduce routes or go bankrupt;
5. Newcomer uses new position to engage in gradual programme of regulatory capture;
6. Newcomer boosts prices way above previous companies;
7. Newcomer shuts down less profitable routes, because see 5.
Bus services here used to be comprehensive and cheap. Now all the short routes are dominated by one company.
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Yeah and do not forget. They get the regulatory capture because they are 'too big to fail' and there are 'no alternatives'.
and if an accident occurs will uber get to use fin (Score:2)
and if an accident occurs will uber get to use fine to get out having to pay up like a real taxi?
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You do realize there may be people injured in an accident who are not customers of Uber, right?
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One key clarification (Score:5, Informative)
UberX in NYC is somewhat different from UberX in most markets. In NYC, UberX uses licensed livery cars and drivers (who have livery licenses, commercial insurance, etc), the same as Uber Black, etc., and the standard car service companies. The only difference between UberX and Uber Black in NYC is that UberX will have less nice cars (typically Camrys vs. Town Cars).
This is very different from UberX in SF, LA, etc., where it's pretty much "got a car? got a license? congrats, you're an UberX driver!"
Well Sure (Score:1, Insightful)
It's easy to undercut the competition when they adhere to regulations and you don't.
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A limited time X; where X is infinitesimally greater than the time it takes to establish a critical mass which will lead to a monopoly? Just wondering :D
Auditable logs? (Score:2)
One thing that you get from taxis that you don't get from Uber (or clones) is an assurance that the rates will be metered fairly.
I use Uber Black whenever its available because I trust the company and I enjoy the product. That doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge the need for some regulation in the taxi market. We tried going all gypsy before and it didn't work very well - hell, DC was annoying until just a few years ago with random pricing.
Uber could choose to work with the cities and go in offering ful
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One thing that you get from taxis that you don't get from Uber (or clones) is an assurance that the rates will be metered fairly.
Uber could choose to work with the cities and go in offering full (anonymous, 1 week delayed) logs of all trips with pricing information. Any city inspector could take a trip and then compare his calculations to his receipt and, when it appeared publicly, the log records.
You say you've taken Uber before, but you make this uninformed statement? Every time you complete an Uber ride (or Lyft ride), you get an email saying the exact distance and exact duration of the ride, then the costs associated with each and the sum to the final bottom line. It also includes a map of the area you traveled, with a bright line showing the path of the trip. So this takes care of concern for your "metered fairly" issue. Sounds like you're an astroturfer for the taxi cartel.
When will we have Uber for airplanes? (Score:1)
When will we have Uber for airplanes? There are many private pilots who would love to make some money by flying paying passengers yet FAA requires some pesky commercial pilot license. How can we "Uber" that license requirement?
There are so many rules that I would like to "Uber"...
laws about that (Score:3)
Uber astroturfing marches on... (Score:4, Interesting)
immigrant taxi owner? (Score:2)
Never priced a medallion I guess. They don't own the taxis.
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They do in Seattle and SF and Chicago at least (often, but not always Sikhs). they started as drivers and now own a medallion. often they are paying off loans for it. and along comes Bezos backed Uber...
the cities demanded that they buy them to do business. now some of these cities are negotiating with Uber. how does your trusting immigrant business owner feel now?
Cash Cab with Ben Bailey? (Score:2)
So how will this affect Cash Cab? Will Ben Bailey now have to put a pink mustache on the front of his vehicle? Will people have to use an iOS app to get a ride? Will people be required to fist-bump Ben Bailey as they enter the car?
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I doubt it, since Cash Cab was cancelled for the 2nd time in 2012.
Get an education, cabbies. (Score:1)
If your job is going to the way of the dodo, then get off your ass and learn something that isn't. I have no sympathy for people who spend their lives in bottom-of-the-barrel jobs only to be surprised that they're being replaced with a better system.
Game show (Score:2)
Re:No thanks. (Score:4, Funny)
Enjoy using your million-dollar taxi medallion as a coaster from now on.
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I like the part where you think a medallion prevents any of that.
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If you think that the average taxi driver is some how morally superior to 'random strangers'(who have to pass criminal and background checks)....I know you haven't been in many cabs.
Re:No thanks. (Score:4, Insightful)
This is the only reason I use Uber (though I push it a notch and use Uber Black, even though its pretty expensive).
When I need to take a cab at 4 AM to go to the middle of nowhere (I don't have a car, as I only need this like twice a year or something, not worth it), hailing a shady dirty taxi who'll bitch and moan about me asking to go somewhere unprofitable isn't exactly my preference.
Uber (Black) has been doing quite nicely. Up the standard of normal taxis, even if you have to double the price, and I'll happily use them again.
But how many bodies can it fit? (Score:3)
When I need to take a cab at 4 AM to go to the middle of nowhere (I don't have a car, as I only need this like twice a year or something, not worth it), hailing a shady dirty taxi who'll bitch and moan about me asking to go somewhere unprofitable isn't exactly my preference.
I will take that recommendation, though I hear Uber SUV can fit more bodies in the rear. I wonder if heading over to Patterson incurs surge pricing? Will the driver help you unload your "luggage"?
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Who is going to rob, rape, and/or murder you? The person being tracked via satellite who is specifically responding to your request for a pick up? It's not even worth it to try and rob an Uber driver. You would need a stolen phone and credit card in order to be able to do that, otherwise it's pretty easy to prove exactly who was there. It's not like with a taxi that you can anonymously hail, shoot them while they're sitting in the seat, take everything and go.
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I welecome the change. Bitcoin makes othewise smart people stupid. The arguements with uber are a thousand times more palatible.
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I welecome the change. Bitcoin makes othewise smart people stupid. The arguements with uber are a thousand times more palatible.
Well, some of them are.
But you have to admit, a lot of the arguments are Bitcoin-level stupid.
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Either way.
As in most things, there are moronic arguments on both sides of the Bitcoin/Uber debates.
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Well, I made $90 billion investing in Bernie Madolff related investments. I'm not the stupid one.
I also make $10,000 a week working from home, you can too! Just follow my link for more details https://ipromisethismultilevel... [ipromiseth...yascam.com]
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Because we all know that no one on the Internet lies.