Why CurrentC Will Beat Out Apple Pay 631
itwbennett writes Working closely with VISA, Apple solved many complex security issues making in-person payments safer than ever. But it's that close relationship with the credit card companies that may be Apple Pay's downfall. A competing solution called CurrentC has recently gained a lot of press as backers of the project moved to block NFC payments (Apple Pay, Google Wallet, etc.) at their retail terminals. The merchants designing or backing CurrentC reads like a greatest hits list of retail outfits and leading the way is the biggest of them all, Walmart. The retailers have joined together to create a platform that is independent of the credit card companies and their profit-robbing transaction fees. Hooking directly to your bank account rather than a credit or debit card, CurrentC will use good old ACH to transfer money from your account to the merchant's bank account at little to no cost.
Not a chance (Score:5, Informative)
I wont be giving away access to my bank accounts. Sorry, not gonna happen.
And the next time they have a data breach?
That's just full of "Nope!"
Re: Not a chance (Score:5, Funny)
Bitcoin, people. The answer is bitcoin.
Re: Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, there's a solution for that [wikipedia.org]. Some forms even work when your electronics are dead.
Re: (Score:3)
You either leave enough float in your bank account to not have to worry about ever running out or you play the timing game constantly with your bank, who eng
Re: Not a chance (Score:5, Interesting)
You either leave enough float in your bank account to not have to worry about ever running out or you play the timing game constantly with your bank, who engineered the system for those delicious overdraft fees.
Right, and if you don't have money in your checking account, with a Visa debit account you will get a "transaction denied" message (switch to card B at the register) while with ACH you will get a $40 overdraft fee. If you are doing your errands, you might have five charges and owe $200 in fees. This bird won't fly.
Now watch as the blame-the-victim crowd tells me to constantly keep an eye on all of my balances instead of letting the computers handle that for me. Because progress.
Re: Not a chance (Score:4, Interesting)
Credit Unions are what banks were decades ago. I'll never use another bank.
Otherwise... cash.
Re: (Score:3)
Why am I doing it wrong? Money goes into my account every other week; I use some of that money from a debit card to pay for transactions. It's easy to find out how much money I have. I don't have to worry about paying it back later or any interest, What's wrong with that?
Re: Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
first off, the protections for debit cards are much weaker than for a credit card. see http://www.bbb.org/blog/2013/11/do-debit-cards-and-credit-cards-hav-the-same-protection/
second, as someone below points out, with a debit card you have to maintain a constant float. not with a CC.
the CC is simple. charge everything. pay it off at end of month. very, very simple.
debit cards are a poor idea.
Re: Not a chance (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Not a chance (Score:4, Informative)
I switched when I had a friend get their debit card stolen. She said the cops pointed out to her that if you only use CC, then while you're in the dispute process you have all your money whereas if you use a debit card, somebody else has your money while your in the dispute process. It's a big fucking deal when it's time to pay your rent/mortgage.
Re: (Score:3)
Those debit 'protections' are when you run it as a debit card with PIN. Almost all debit cards can also be run as credit cards. When they are run as 'signature' credit cards credit card protections apply.
Never use your PIN anywhere but the ATM. Most especially not on any ole card reader you're handed in a restaurant. Most places assume debit and if you hit 'cancel' or 'change payment type' you can always get it to run as a credit card.
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Re: Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
On the subject of "who will win", I think that the easiest payment options with the most security and largest spending consumer base will win. Historically, thats users who use Apple. QR codes and Bank ACH transfers lack two of the three things - security and ease. They also miss the boat on a big number of other ancillary benefits Apple Pay has going for it:
1. Apple Pay can be used online.
2. There is no massive treasure trove of data for hackers to steal.
3. You can not ACH from a credit card. Guess where most of the retailers get their money from? Hint: Its not people's bank accounts, those are used to pay off credit cards.
4. If CurrentC participating retailers block Apple Pay (which is really to block NFC transactions), it stands to reason that Apple may block any CurrentC applications from their App Store. They could always point and say "In response to...".
Apple Pay will end up being just another NFC service, but NFC will ring the winner. What is Walmart / Best Buy / CVS going to do? Displace Visa/MC in the hundreds of countries that are already in? How many Visa terminals are there? Right.
I suppose they have all the legal work figured out as well, and don't mind bankrupting themselves in the process.
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Interesting)
Worst, have you ever tried to block a transaction made against your bank account? It's next to impossible. I had allowed a private health insurance company to deduct my monthly premium from my bank account. I cancelled and they still billed me, I called again to reiterate my cancellation and demand my money back, and they billed me again. I finally screamed at the bank until they locked the account, my health insurance company called about non-payment and I finally got it fixed.
I'm never allowing that again. I don't care about the final solution, but it is never going to be to give anyone access to my bank account. I personally think CurrentC will fail because it's not what Apple or Google wants, but whatever, they can all duke it out.
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Interesting)
In most of the rest of the world, the ACH horror stories would be fraud, and someone could end up in jail over it. Taking someone's money without permission is fraud/theft. Unless you are in the US.
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah here in Canada, 2 week hold minimum on US checks.
CurrentC is dead on arrival. It doesn't allow foreigners to use it, therefor it's useless and will fail.
Foreigners are going to want to use the more secure NFC or Chip+pin, of which American POS systems have no support for chip+pin, leaving only NFC.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Informative)
The first wave of proposed chip+PIN cards in the US was slated to have magstripes as a fallback mechanism. The agreement between the retailer and the credit network would have placed all liability for fraudulent or reversed transactions on the party using outdated tech. Merchants did not like this,
That's the system today, so I don't see why the merchants would be so upset.
CurrentC is "wanted" because it pushes all liability onto the user, with none on the retailer or credit network (partly because there is no "credit network" in the CurrentC system). All systems with a credit network know that if they screw the user, the user will flee. So all the credit networks push as much risk as possible on the merchant, and accept the rest. $50 is the maximum on the user, and nearly all limit that to $0, so long as the user acts reasonably.
Re: (Score:3)
....It is at least like this with my card. ...
I live in Canada, my bank is BMO, I don't know a bout the others banks/countries
The mag strip is easy to copy, there were a big network of thieves that place modified terminal (with the complicity or merchants or their employees). The modified one copy the card (mag strip), by reading directly what the magnetic head reads, and the PIN by placing a pad between the buttons and the PCB.
I had, my card cloned twice, when I had the only the mag strip. Now? 0 times. If the merc
Re:Not a chance (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Once some
Re: (Score:3)
Yeah, I had a landlord who demanded that all of their tenants sign up to allow rent to be automatically withdrawn every month as a way of ensuring prompt payment of rent. Not sure that was legal, but it was a nice apartment at a reasonable price, so I went along. When I left, he withdrew an extra month's rent. It took me a month of arguing and threatening to sue to get him to return it.
I will never sign up for anything that allows anyone to automatically withdraw from my bank account again.
Re:Not a chance (Score:4, Insightful)
Is this 1852? Isn't technology supposed to be eliminating ancient, slow, outdated practices?
But in point of fact, yes, I did. And because of that, EVENTUALLY, the issue was resolved and I got my money back. I would much rather have used a CC, it's a lot easier to kill a transaction there.
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't forget data mining in CurrentC - that is the main reason the stores want it so they can track you and your purchases. CurrentC's policy also includes disclosure of medical items (perhaps only purchases/drugs to start). With Apple Pay's tokens, it won't happen. As you said, the data breach potential is huge for them too.
Who do you trust? The merchants who want to use you as the product or someone who sells you the product.
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of this is good: I don't directly see the bite the credit card guys take; but that money doesn't spring into being by magic, it ends up in the prices I pay sooner or later.
Some of this is substandard-but-fixable: (the current state of the 'app'/UI/etc. is a bit of a clusterfuck because it was farmed out by a bunch of companies with core expertise in putting rectangular items with price tags on shelves); but those merchants would obviously have nothing against it being better.
The trouble is the stuff that is bad-by-design: the fact that it's even more expansively invasive than the existing 'loyalty card' schemes, and that it sidesteps most security arrangements to reduce cost, are core elements of the design.
Re: (Score:3)
I keep hearing this and I don't understand it. How is it any different than the majority of people who use the same credit card at different stores?
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Interesting)
I keep hearing this and I don't understand it. How is it any different than the majority of people who use the same credit card at different stores?
It is very illegal for a merchant to store your credit card number for more than the 5 seconds it takes to authorize the transaction, unless they implement fairly strong protection to make sure nobody can steal those numbers later. But even if they do this, it is still very illegal for them to try to share those card numbers and what they purchased, which would be necessary for different merchants to "track" your purchases.
CurrentC probably does not have this protection. Merchants would be free to store and share the fact that your CurrentC account number bought X here, Y there, and Z there. Merchants would love that ability, which is why they've designed CurrentC to allow it; as a customer, you have very little to gain from that kind of data mining, and almost definitely plenty to lose.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
It is very illegal for a merchant to store your credit card number
it is still very illegal for them to try to share those card numbers and what they purchased
Nope, it's just a voluntary step that merchants promise to abide by. There are no laws that enforce this, only merchant agreements and PCI compliance rules. For 90%+ of small businesses, they process so few transactions that the rules are all enforced by self reporting, and pinky swearing that they've been following the rules. Absolute worst case s
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple Pay provides a new unique transaction number with each purchase. No credit card information is provided. This is to avoid being able to use information from a transaction for a second purchase. Big for security. Not so much for correlating transactions with a user.
Re:Not a chance (Score:4, Informative)
Yep, this was my first thought myself!!
I try to generally pay for everyday things in meatspace with cash. Online, mostly with one CC.
I don't plan to use or store ANY CC or banking information on my phone...much less have it set up to directly access my bank account via this system.
Hell, I refuse to have a debit card, my ATM card is purely ATM. I don't want debit...at least with CC if it gets stolen, you don't lose cash out of your account.
Even in this day, with many debit cards, if it is stolen and used, the cash is out of your account UNTIL you can prove it wasn't you.
I've seen it happen recently to a friend, and it caused all sorts of problems, with not only having to wait for their money to be returned to their account, but also all the overdraft and bounced checks/auto payments that hit while they were waiting for their money to be given back to them.
I can foresee the same dangers happening with this or any other direct to bank account transaction.
Re: (Score:3)
I'll third the ATM-not-debit card. My bank "helpfully" sent me a debit card. I told them to send me another one that was ATM-only.
When I pay for something using plastic, I use my credit card. The worst that can happen there is thieves get my number, run up my balance, and my card is rejected. As soon as I spot the fraudulent charges, my credit card company will - by law- reverse them. I believe the law states that I'm liable for the first $50 at most, but I don't know of any credit card companies that
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
You (and I, since I do the same) are the ultimate easy money. The Visa/MC brands make money off the margin they get from each purchase and the banks make interest (and some margin), but the banks also collect interest. They charge a high interest rate because of the risk that you might default. You are very low risk and churn a lot of money through their fee-extracting process that they would not get if you paid cash.
Therefore, they still like you, a lot. Now, the people who always pay cash or use a debit card, those they hate (or more likely just ignore).
Re:Not a chance (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Not a chance (Score:5, Insightful)
Agreed, CurrentC seems to offer alot to retailers but virtually nothing to the consumer. Hell, from a consumer standpoint I'd almost rather stick with the status quo.
Right now I have intermediary who gives my a ~15-30 day float on all my purchases for free. My own assets (bank account) is never exposed. I have dispute process that is in place and affords me strong legal protections. Finally on top of everything else I get rewards and rebates.
So why would I essentially want to go to a debit card like system. A credit card is virtually always better for anyone who can get one. With App and Google's solution I get to retain everything that is good about the old CC system and get improved security which probably means few hassles in the end. Currency I am giving up perks and contractual assurances in exchange for better security around the transaction but much more exposure of my own assets and giving up the perks (or having to keep up with each and every chains specific gimmicks). No - Thank -you
Hopefully consumers will reject this.
Point is you would not STOP paying (Score:4, Insightful)
No, it's not for free. Trust me, you are paying for it in the form of increased prices.
Yes of course, but tell me with a straight face that wide CurrentC adoption means lowered prices from the retailer...
Didn't think so.
So why SHOULDN'T you prefer to get the benefits of using a CC if you are going to be paying the same exact amount for something anyway?
Re: (Score:3)
Except that mom buying the baby formula (holding a baby in one arm) is pissed off at having to unlock her phone, find the app, scan a QR code and have the cashier scan a QR code so she goes somewhere where she can just wave her phone and put her thumb on the home button instead.
Oh, and she's living off credit card debt so she doesn't actually have any money in her checking account to use CurrentC anyway.
Re: (Score:3)
---> you pay with cash you ALWAYS argue about the price, merchant have to give the CC 1~3% in transaction fees -- cash is the king (actually gold is) or bitcoin
And how is that working out for you when you're arguing with some minimum-wager running the cash-register with no authority to change prices whatsoever?
Re:Not a chance (Score:4, Interesting)
You know what? Pretty well, actually.
Several years ago on a whim I began asking for discounts everywhere. "Do you have any promotions you could apply to this?" is what I would typically ask. I was shocked to find that most of the time, there is something, like a 10-20% coupon or similar that they can throw at it. Or, if not a direct discount, say at a restaurant, they may give a voucher for a free dessert or appetizer. The worst answer is they say "no, sorry, don't have anything I could do" and you leave it at that.
So, while the peon running the register may not be able to change prices, they are often empowered to provide a discount if prompted.
Re:Not a chance (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Privacy as well as Security (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
Not to mention all the perks that come with your credit cards. My card gives me cash back, a limited warranty on anything I buy with it (subject to restrictions), insurance on rental cars, and a rather morbid $10,000 death benefit to my family if the plane for which I used my card to buy tickets crashes. Am I going to get any of that with CurrentC? No. The retailer saves a percent or so of my purchase, I lose all the benefits I had before and get none in return except I get to scan my phone instead of swipe
Don't forget (Score:5, Insightful)
They will also forgo those profit-robbing security measures.
Don't forget (Score:3)
Not like banks have any profit-robbing security measures in place. If there weren't laws in place forcing them to indemnify/limit the customer exposer against fraud, do you think they would bother?
When banks started to issue VISA/MasterCard credit cards in my country (one of the ex-commie countries) some 15 years ago, they had no clue about what they were doing - when I asked how it works in case of fraud, the clerk told me with a straight face that I have to bring a receipt from the sale and they will clai
How many people need direct access to my info? (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, I kinda want a buffer between my actual money and the companies I do business with. Someone who will take the hit while dispute is handled. This is why I use a credit card. I've toyed with google wallet and I actually like it as a easy tool to send money between friends. What I don't want to see is a world where to make payments I need to give my personal information to a dozen companies with incompatible standards.
The fact that they are blocking competition is enough to insure I won't be using their product.
LMAO no it won't (Score:3)
No consumer protection? No ability to use one's own card? What is this, 1997?
Nice try, guys.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Total nonsense (Score:5, Insightful)
And every customer is pissed of in a major way, because both Apple Pay and Google Wallet actually _worked_ until these idiots shut it off.
Apple has some pretty convincing material out describing how Apple Pay works, that can convince the geeks that it is actually safe. Google probably has the same thing, would be nice if someone could post a link. But these jokers? I wouldn't trust them in a million years.
Re: (Score:2)
I would go so far as to say that even if Apple Pay falls flat (which seems like a ludicrous proposition at this point), CurrentC isn't going to go anywhere. Far too few people are going to be interested in it.
Dan Aris
Re:Total nonsense (Score:4, Insightful)
Until, of course, paying with CurrentC gets you a 2% discount, 10% on select items during an introductory offer*.
( * with regular prices actually gradually going up )
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Until, of course, paying with CurrentC gets you a 2% discount, 10% on select items during an introductory offer*.
( * with regular prices actually gradually going up )
I think you'll find that even for regular discounts, there are a LOT of people who will simply not be willing to give up their bank account and SSN details to retailers. I certainly won't. [slashdot.org] Not to mention it would still have the problem of being a horrendously clunky system to use.
And finally, don't forget that CurrentC isn't even ready for full deployment yet (various things have been quoting dates in 2015), while Apple Pay is live now, and over a million people signed up with it in the first 3 days [macworld.com]. By the
Re: (Score:3)
I think you'll find that even for regular discounts, there are a LOT of people who will simply not be willing to give up their bank account and SSN details to retailers
I'm one of these people too. I simply cannot imagine a discount steep enough to convince me to not only share my banking details with a consortium of retailers, but to do so in exchange for a payment system that is less convenient than cash. Not to mention the increased amount of spying this lets those retailers engage in.
Re:Total nonsense (Score:4, Insightful)
I love my cash back, but not at the expense of proper, well-proven fraud protection.
10% off? Sure I'll sign up and use it for a big purchase or two then remove all my info/cancel. Otherwise it's about the same as regular cash back, without the net-30 terms and proven history of consumer protection.
As it stands, if I get a bad TV from w-mart and the d*ck manager decides it's my fault it I just dispute the charge. Then Amex goes to bat for me and I typically get my way. If the entity that processed the charge is owned/run by w-mart to begin with how do you think that will go over?
Yah...I'm with you. No thanks, no way. Nothing about this seems enticing, interesting, or worth the trouble.
Plus many people use their CC because they don't have $ immediately available in their bank account. "Sorry, I can't go out tonight my credit cards are maxed"
I'll just go down the street (Score:5, Insightful)
And every customer is pissed of in a major way, because both Apple Pay and Google Wallet actually _worked_ until these idiots shut it off.
Pissed might be too strong a word but I have a Walgreens right down the street from the CVS and Rite-Aid. Only one supports Apple Pay so guess which one I'm going to use if I want to use Apple Pay? (or Google's alternatives) I'm certainly not going to do business with someone who makes my life less convenient. This CurrentC "solution" is all benefit to the merchant and none to me. I can't see a single redeeming benefit to me. Less convenient, more risk and seemingly limited liability protection? No thanks.
Apple has some pretty convincing material out describing how Apple Pay works, that can convince the geeks that it is actually safe. Google probably has the same thing, would be nice if someone could post a link. But these jokers? I wouldn't trust them in a million years.
Dead on. Retailers have clearly shown they cannot be trusted to keep customer data secure. It's bad enough with a credit card. There is no way in hell I'm giving any major retailer direct (ACH) access to my bank account. They must be doing some heavy drugs if they think I am dumb enough to do that.
Why would I use it? (Score:5, Insightful)
The retailers can build CurrentC but they can't force customers to use it. The payment process sounds terrible; it'll be easier to just pull out your credit card and pay with that.
If I pay with my Visa card, I get cash back, and an extended warranty on my purchases. So far I haven't heard that CurrentC has any of these benefits.
Why would I use it?
Re:Why would I use it? (Score:4, Informative)
You understand why you get cash back though right? You get cash back because Visa/MC are charging so much extra they can afford kickbacks to the user.
By the same logic, CurrentC would be able to afford the same sort of rewards programs to get you to NOT use Visa/MC. Just because they haven't announced this doesn't mean they're not going to do it. If anything, I would expect more lucrative rewards programs because they're cutting out that middleman entirely.
Re: (Score:2)
> You get cash back because Visa/MC are charging so much extra
In this case, not just the fee they normally charge, but an extra fee you'll never know about. Then they give you a small chunk of that.
It's a scam. Retailers should be allowed to refuse these cards, like they did when it was only Discover doing it. But now Visa does it and tells retailers they'll cut off all access unless they bend over.
Another solution would be to simply require a yearly fee on the cards, say $100, that the user pays.
Re:Why would I use it? (Score:4, Insightful)
. Retailers should be allowed to refuse these cards,
They are. They don't. Because they'd rather take the cards and get the sale than refuse the cards and have the person go across the street. They caved and did what the users wanted. So why are they, in this case, doing the opposite of what the users want?
Re:Why would I use it? (Score:4, Informative)
It's a scam. Retailers should be allowed to refuse these cards, like they did when it was only Discover doing it. But now Visa does it and tells retailers they'll cut off all access unless they bend over.
Retailers can refuse them. There's a local pizza place near me that still does not accept any credit or debit cards, and charges a processing fee to use checks for payment. They've been in business for over 30 years and are doing fine. They would get more business from me if they did accept cards, though. I just don't carry cash that often.
Nobody's holding a gun to these retailers' heads and making them accept Visa. They want the additional business, they agree to the terms to get it.
Re:Why would I use it? (Score:4, Informative)
The thing is though the swipe fee is the best thing that every happened to the consumer ( well anyone who can get a card anyway ).
By letting my CC company buy my loyalty payed out those fees I get them on every purchase from everywhere aggregated into a nice enough single system I can understand how works and maximize my advantage from.
The CurrentC proposal essential puts it back in the hands of retailers to run their own loyalty program. So RiteAide might give you 2% back on prescription drugs, and 1% on candy, and Wallmart will probably do something completely different and may not even use the same category system. Then you will end up with $5 that is only good a RiteAide at the end of the year and $10 good only at Wallmart rather than $15 I could get back in the form of a single gift cert for virtually anywhere I want. That SUCKS by comparison.
You wouldn't (if you are smart) (Score:2)
The retailers can build CurrentC but they can't force customers to use it. The payment process sounds terrible; it'll be easier to just pull out your credit card and pay with that.
Agreed. It's like using a debit card but more cumbersome and with less legal protection. All the benefits are for the merchant and none for the consumer.
Re: (Score:3)
It's the same deal as ISIS - Even before the Islamic extremists ruined the name (I think they changed it to SoftCard or something like that), all they did was hold back Google Wallet without providing consumers a viable alternative.
That ruined their name with consumers even before the Islamic extremists did. People are constantly pissed about vending machines that stopped accepting Wallet as soon as ISIS support was added. Partly because they still don't have any way to use ISIS, but more because they can
CurrentC does not solve for the Customer (Score:5, Informative)
Looking through CurrentC it does everything for Merchants, and nothing for customers.
- Requires to be tied to checking account or debit card
- Customer assumes 100% of liability for fraud (?!)
- Retailer can gather all purchase data on a customer
- Requires multistep actions including scanning QR codes
What benefit is in there for the customer? You know people are going to freak out around the liability part. I know the retailers want to reduce their transaction fee, but unless they throw some level of enticement (such as a discount) you probably won't see adoption of this. Conversely a discount will just nullify the transaction fee. I'm of the belief CurrentC is DOA.
Re:CurrentC does not solve for the Customer (Score:4, Insightful)
Thanks !
Re:CurrentC does not solve for the Customer (Score:5, Informative)
In addition to everything you said, there are the following reasons it's customer-hostile as well:
- CurrentC requires providing your Social Security Number and driver's license number
- CurrentC app collects any health data it can find on your phone
- CurrentC app tracks your location
- CurrentC stores all customer information in the cloud, rather than on the device
- CurrentC must be requested specifically by the customer, rather than being immediately available at checkout
- CurrentC's checkout varies between locations (between you and the cashier, it can vary who has the QR code and who does the scanning)
I'm with you: it's DOA. Moreover, it's downright creepy. The only incentive to use it would be if they offered a discount, but that would cut into the whole point of moving over to ACH from credit anyway, as you pointed out. Moreover, in many states it may be illegal to offer a discount, since there are laws forcing prices to remain the same, regardless of transaction method. They're phrased differently from state to state, so there may be ways around most of them, but it'd be one more hurdle in their way.
Re:CurrentC does not solve for the Customer (Score:5, Informative)
As a victim of identity theft, I definitely WON'T be giving CurrentC my SSN, driver's license number, and direct access to my bank account. All that's left for identity theft to take place is to tie your date of birth in there somewhere. (Perhaps as proof that you're a certain age.)
I'm sure they'll get some suckers to use the system and will file some press released about how fantastic uptake has been (massaging the stats to make it look great), but unless they make some radical changes this will die a painful death. The only question is: What will happen first? Will they kill it or will it get hacked exposing all of these peoples' information and bank accounts to some malicious individuals?
Wired has a directly opposite take... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
It's more dangerous at grocery stores and the like where they may only get savings if you use it.
When does this turn into abuse of monopoly powers since walmart,kmart and target effectively have killed off any competitors.
Will the CC Companies Retaliate? (Score:2)
Afterall, if it does catch-on, that could be a major loss of income for the CC Companies and their attendant verification services.
Transactions fees are going down (Score:3, Informative)
Nope (Score:4, Funny)
ACH = Automated Clearing House (Score:3)
Wiki here [wikipedia.org]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
I'm sure someone can explain this... to me it sounds like an attempt to invent a new generic credit card that uses an existing popular financial transaction network.
Currentc is awful (Score:2)
CurrentC will hopefully die a painful death .... (Score:2)
For starters? If CurrentC was so good, why wasn't it implemented YEARS ago? The technology has been around for it. Heck, they're talking about it working by scanning a QR code with a camera --- something pretty much standard on smartphones for many years now.
It took Apple coming up with a workable solution and releasing it to wake them up, apparently. (Look how long places like CVS and Rite Aid accepted Google Wallet without a care ... but Apple Pay came along, and the whole NFC payment thing was shut d
Why CurrentC will fail miserably (Score:5, Informative)
1. One of the terms of service is exclusivity - if you use CurrentC, you can't use any other kind of mobile wallet system.
2. It is more like a debit card than a credit card - the money comes directly out of your bank account.
3. As such, it has none of the legal protections that a credit card has. With a debit card, pretty much all banks offer the same protection on debit cards anyway, because it's good for their business. CurrentC won't be run by banks, it will be run by some of the largest retailers in the country - Walmart, etc. None of the political pressures that keep banks on the straight and narrow apply.
4. CurrentC requires - cannot possibly work without - that you give the retailer all the information needed to take as much money as they choose directly from your bank account. These are the same retailers who have had hundreds of millions of credit card numbers stolen from their servers in the last couple of years. They have proven, conclusively, that they cannot be trusted.
5. CurrentC is about more than just transaction fees. It is also about turning the customer into a product - they require a lot of personal information that is completely irrelevant to the transaction - like health information (which they are also incapable of protecting) - to set up the account.
6. CurrentC is based on QR Codes, which is just stupid.
I'll go back to carrying cash before I use a mess like that. Or barter. Or growing my own food on a mountain top somewhere.
Re: (Score:3)
You are all missing something. CurrentC will be tied to the retailer's membership program. If you want to take advantage of the retail's card or membership discounts, you will have to use CurrentC or the membership card (which will inturn use it). Target has Red card which offers 5% discount (or more). When Target switches to CurrentC, there would instantly be plenty of CurrentC users. Target Red card requires a bank account to be linked, and it has been quite successful. Members discounts would only be for
Re: (Score:3)
If you want to take advantage of the retail's card or membership discounts, you will have to use CurrentC or the membership card (which will inturn use it).
No problem, then. I don't even trust retailers enough to use those cards in the first place. Further, I generally avoid shopping at stores that have such cards, since they typically jack the prices up and the card's "discount" just brings them back in line with what you would pay if you were at a reasonable store. So in the end, there's no little to no savings to be had by using the cards.
Re:Why CurrentC will fail miserably (Score:4, Insightful)
Here's a better Reason it will fail:
Dear (CurrentC Developer)
Thank you for Submitting CurrentC to the App Store. We've Reviewed the Application and we have chosen not to publish this application. As you know, Apple reserves the right, in it's sole discretion, to reject an application for any reason.
Regards
Iphone Developer Program.
Apple never Forgets or Forgives.
Are you kidding? (Score:2, Insightful)
Apple Pay became the biggest wireless payment solution in just 72 hours. And it doesn't involve the most convoluted QR code scanning scheme on the planet to work. And the 50 other things other people have mentioned...
Another opinion. (Score:2)
Visa/MC won't stand for this (Score:2)
The danger these companies are overlooking is that V/MC have grown fat on their percentage take of every transaction, and that money is probably going to start shifting into marketing and regulatory pushes to squash this. "Everywhere you want to be" will turn into "Would you give Target or Home Depot a stack of withdrawal tickets to your personal bank account?" And "Mastercard, it's the financial protection you need."
Link to Paypal? (Score:3)
The ONLY way I would even think of using this is if I could link it to a Paypal account (backed by a CC, of course)
Otherwise I have no intention of using it. (And I'm talking my intention is only like 1% over nothing at that point because I don't want another app to bring up just to BUY something for the merchant's convenience.)
ApplePay is novel and I've used it several times for "fun" and I'm sure it's more secure but it's still easier for me to whip out my CC (which has chip and pin) and use it over my iPhone. (unless I'm texing in line... or surfing the net in line...)
But NOTHING ties directly into my bank account... I saw Star Trek the Motion Picture! I know what happens when you channel the phasers directly into the main engines! It's not pretty!
Aww hell no... (Score:2)
So let me get this straight. They have a solution that is harder to use, less secure, and requires me to give direct access to my bank account? Why is this any better than using a debit card? They're delusional if they think this is a good solution.
The retailers have joined together to create a platform that is independent of the credit card companies and their profit-robbing transaction fees.
Credit card transaction fees get passed on to customers. They generally do not eat that cost. The incidence of payment is entirely on the end customer. This argument is bogus. I don't mind them saving me as the end customer money but it isn't their pocket
Re: (Score:3)
It's better than a debit card because it gives the merchants tons of information on you whereas a debit card doesn't.
Oh, you meant better for you, not them...
Very US-focused opinion (Score:3)
No CurrentC Support in 3...2...1... (Score:5, Insightful)
So what makes the backers of CurrentC think that Apple and Google will allow a CurrentC app in either of their respective app stores after their methods were blocked?
Apple/Google, please ban app until NFC restored (Score:5, Interesting)
This is one case where both Apple and Google could and should work together, to jointly ban the app until the companies involved open NFC back up for transactions again. Without an app CurrentC is dead in the water.
Especially Google should be upset, because Android users had working NFC payments at many of these stores for years before the ApplePay launch triggered the NFC lockout.
Frankly I'd almost be OK with both Apple and Google banning the app on the grounds of it being so close to spyware as you cannot tell the difference... it requires a lot of information and collects as much as it can that it doesn't need permission for.
Profit Robbing Fees, is this a Fox News HL? (Score:5, Interesting)
Robbing? Really? Merchants don’t have to accept credit card transaction and Apple Pay cost them no more than a regular credit card transaction.
This is the only article of many of which I have read that didn’t think CurrentC was dead on arrival – before arrival actually, as it won’t arrive until next year. It will save the consumer no money per transaction, take more steps, is far less secure and has virtually no liability protections.
Credit Card companies have spent decades creating ways to discover and discourage credit card cheats. This system dispenses with all that – Caveat Emptor I guess.
Merchants expect no blowback when consumers discover this all about dodging credit card fees, avoiding liability and invading privacy to track an individual’s every purchase for marketing purposes?
Re: (Score:3)
Not when nobody with more than 2 brain cells will use it.
From the summary:
Therefore, we can reasonably assume that CurrentC will take off like wildfire.
SQUIRREL! (Score:3)
Not to dispute your point, but your conclusion is wrong. When the largest backer is Wal Mart, you don't assume a high I.Q. in the customer base.
Re: (Score:2)
No merchant fees? No, it would work like a debit card, and Apple - depending on who you ask - is getting up to 15 basis points back from V/MC; they're not going to give up that free money in the case of a debit card (which has very low percentage fees, plus the swipe charge).
And I don't care if you triple encrypt it, it's not getting linked to my bank account. The whole reason I use V/MC is as a safety buffer.
Re: (Score:2)
But the original SystemBCPL had a structural beauty that later versions never matched.
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Apple Pay is nothing standard. Who cares if it uses NFC or a QR code. You completely missed my point.
Apple Pay is completely a lock-in. If you want to use ApplePay you are locked into using Apple and Apple will be getting a cut from the credit companies, etc... There is nothing "standard" about Apple Pay.
Oh I forgot, I apple can do no wrong.
Re:ApplePay vs CurrentC (Score:5, Informative)
Thing is, Apple Pay used existing standards for contactless EMV. Which is why every single terminal that accepted Apple Pay already accepted Google Wallet.
Re: (Score:3)
Apple Pay's interface with your CC account is proprietary. Its interface with the retailer is most definitely non-proprietary, even if the standards aren't particularly open.
Re: (Score:3)
When the product is released, they won't require you provide SSN, drivers license number or heath data.
CurrentC has already been released in a test market up in Minnesota. They're already collecting all of this information. Here are the instructions they have [twitter.com] that include the SSN and DL stuff. The health data is collected by default and must be opted-out of after you set up the app, but will collect anything it can get in the meantime. Likewise for location tracking, which cannot be disabled, since they use it to confirm that you are in the store you're trying to check out at.
FUD stands for fear, uncertainty