Google Teams Up With 3 Wireless Carriers To Combat Apple Pay 186
HughPickens.com writes AP reports that in an effort to undercut Apple's hit service Apple Pay, Google is teaming up with three wireless carriers by building its payment service into Android smartphones sold by AT&T Inc., Verizon Wireless and T-Mobile USA. Besides trying to make it more convenient to use Wallet, Google also is hoping to improve the nearly 4-year-old service. Toward that end, Google is buying some mobile payment technology and patents from Softcard, a 5-year-old venture owned by the wireless carriers. Financial terms weren't disclosed but Apple Pay's popularity probably helped forge the unlikely alliance between Google and the wireless carriers. Google traditionally has had a prickly relationship with the carriers, largely because it doesn't believe enough has been done to upgrade wireless networks and make them cheaper so more people can spend more time online.
The biggest challenge however is one that both Apple and Google face: Only a small fraction of the 10 million or so retail outlets in the U.S.–220,000 at last count–have checkout readers that can accept payments from either system. Both wallets use a radio technology called Near Field Communication to send payment, and it's expected to take years for most stores to be upgraded. What's at play? The big tech companies and carriers seem convinced that our phones will eventually replace our wallets. For carriers, that could make mobile wallet technology table stakes over the next few years as they compete for consumers.
The biggest challenge however is one that both Apple and Google face: Only a small fraction of the 10 million or so retail outlets in the U.S.–220,000 at last count–have checkout readers that can accept payments from either system. Both wallets use a radio technology called Near Field Communication to send payment, and it's expected to take years for most stores to be upgraded. What's at play? The big tech companies and carriers seem convinced that our phones will eventually replace our wallets. For carriers, that could make mobile wallet technology table stakes over the next few years as they compete for consumers.
here's an idea (Score:2)
american banks are finally waking the fuck up from all of the easy expensive hacks and finally giving americans european style smart chip cards:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/1014121... [cnbc.com]
the chips in smart cards are the same thing as phone SIM cards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S... [wikipedia.org]
so why can't banks team up with verizon/ att/ sprint/ etc (and do an end run around google/ apple/ samsung/ etc. plus mastercard/ visa/ etc.) and just give us phone = bankcard thataways?
what am i missing?
do i get my $30 million bonus now?
t
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It's all about the money.
You're missing the fees that are collected by the organizations that facilitate the transaction. CC companies don't want to split the take they're already getting with someone else and retail organizations don't want to increase the percentage they have to pay for adding the cell phone company to the line of people with their hand out. So teaming up between phone companies and CC companies isn't going to happen. So Apple and now Google show up with a scheme to bypass the CC compa
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Apple doesn't bypass the credit card companies - you're thinking of CurrentC (the joint system being developed by Walmart, CVS, etc.). That system exists solely to save merchants money. ApplePay uses the same credit card system (and your existing cards) to make payments.
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To be pedantic Apple Pay uses your credit card account to make your payment. It does not need to have your actual card once you have registered your account. I.e. you don't have to have your card to make a payment.
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thank you. well explained
the banks can't cut out the ccs, the ccs will punish them
so the best power play is OS/ phone manufacturer and the phone companies cutting out the banks AND the ccs
i get it
but you know the ccs are working furiously with dirty tricks right now like purchased legislation to protect their revenue streams, i mean EHEM, "protect the consumer"
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the heroin crack meth of money in politics is not defeated by voting for the fourth party candidate wackjob
the laws need to be changed like this:
http://www.wolf-pac.com/ [wolf-pac.com]
using money to defeat money. corruption jujitsu
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censorship?
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So Apple and now Google show up with a scheme to bypass the CC companies and divert the entire percentage to their accounts.
Your starting premise is flat-out wrong. Everything that follows from it is therefore gibberish.
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the only reason we don't have phone = bankcard technology is this power game pissing contest between all of the players here, correct?
someone please explain to me what i am missing
What you are missing is that there are many big powerful organizations that DO NOT WANT phone=bankcard. They want your phone to bypass the Visa/Mastercard duopoly, that adds ~3% to to everything you buy. The problem is that they haven't come up with a good alternative.
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you're correct, they want an alternative stream
but it's not altruistic, they just want to set up their own competing ~1% ~2% steal
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They want your phone to bypass the Visa/Mastercard duopoly, that adds ~3% to to everything you buy. The problem is that they haven't come up with a good alternative.
Who is "they"?
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Who is "they"?
The backers of CurrentC [currentc.com]: Walmart, Target, Best Buy, CVS, Shell Oil, Lowes, Sears, 7-eleven and many, many, others.
The biggest challenge? (Score:5, Insightful)
"The biggest challenge however is one that both Apple and Google face: Only a small fraction of the 10 million or so retail outlets in the U.S.–220,000 at last count–have checkout readers that can accept payments from either system."
That's not the biggest challenge. The biggest challenge is that it is no more convenient or reliable to pay a bill with my smartphone than it is with a credit card. My credit card doesn't run out of power. And I don't have to worry about it not getting a good connection inside a store. And I don't have to worry about pulling out a $500 phone and juggling it around every time I want to pay for something.
By Oct 2015 most banks will be issuing smart credit cards that make it much harder to commit fraud. Some of them will come with NFC and support "tap to pay' just like a smartphone. But they will be much cheaper and much more reliable.
Paying by smartphone is a solution in search of a problem.
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Not sure about the Google and Android solutions, but you don't need a network or cell connection to use ApplePay - everything is handled by the chip in the phone. It offers other advantages as well, most specifically the use of a unique token that's NOT your credit card number, meaning it isn't vulnerable to the large store data breaches like we've seen in the last few years.
Also, I dunno about you, but I always have my phone in my pocket, just has handy as my wallet, but with my wallet, I need to remove a
Re:The biggest challenge? (Score:4, Interesting)
Not sure about the Google and Android solutions, but you don't need a network or cell connection to use ApplePay
Nor with Google Wallet.
Also, I dunno about you, but I always have my phone in my pocket, just has handy as my wallet, but with my wallet, I need to remove a card, swipe it, and usually either sign or enter a code.
My phone is actually handier than my wallet, because I use my wallet less and keep it in a less accessible pocket. Actually, most of the time while I'm in a checkout line my phone isn't in my pocket, it's in my hand.
(Disclaimer: I work for Google and bits of my code support Google Wallet. However, I was a fan of NFC payment before joining Google, and whether it's Google, Apple or someone else I'm really glad to see it finally taking off.)
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Ditto. My phone is handier than my wallet, and I can pull up Softcard, PIN in, and tap faster than you say 'oh, please....'. And you're gonna be fishing for another penny to save time with exact change.
Disclaimer - I work for a Softcard partner, and am sort of sad to see it go to Google. But hopefully it will become the main competitor to Apple Pay, which is for us an interesting problem. All is not bliss in Apple Pay land.
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Phone companies are not regulated as Credit Card companies, and until they are, they should not be allowed to facilitate these transactions. They are enjoying the benefit of processing these transactions without any of the added extra cost of enforcing consumer protection. Instead, if you say you didn't buy something, t
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ApplePay is just the method of payment (akin to your physical credit card) - the system still uses the credit card network and uses a number that is passed from the device to the credit card company. The token is used in place of your credit card number during the transaction but Apple isn't "involved" in the payment itself.
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The smart cards coming by Oct 2015 will also contain a chip that will provide a unique token for each transaction.
The biggest challenge is marketing (Score:2)
Google have been absolutely useless when it comes to marketing Wallet.
It works great. It's been out there for years now.
But have you ever seen an ad on TV for it? Have you seen ads online for it? Have you ever read an article about NFC payments that didn't talk almost exclusively about Apple Pay?
Google seem to think that as long as they put the tech into phones people will just somehow discover it, go through the pain of setting it up without really understanding how it works or the benefits of it, and trus
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For some phones. I have a rather old phone, but it wasn't the earliest phone to have NFC (that came a year earlier). Google Wallet doesn't work on it.
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I always have my phone, I don't always have my wallet. Thats problem they solved.
Tap and Pay cards are no more secure than Swipe and Sign cards, they are nearly as easy to clone too.
Tap and Pay phones (at least with ApplePay) require me to actually verify it with something somewhat secure like a finger print or pin number on MY device, not one that someone else maintains and may be hacked to steal my PIN.
ApplePay also doesn't require any communications at the time of transaction with the bank after the ini
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That's not the biggest challenge. The biggest challenge is that it is no more convenient or reliable to pay a bill with my smartphone than it is with a credit card.
That depends. You're right when talking about credit card, but when you have to carry 5+ different credit cards around then it all starts taking up pocket realestate. I would love to do away with my wallet entirely.
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Phone payments offer more privacy and security than cards. The retailer gets a one-time code and that's it, not your card number and PIN which can then be abused.
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That's not the biggest challenge. The biggest challenge is that it is no more convenient or reliable to pay a bill with my smartphone than it is with a credit card. My credit card doesn't run out of power. And I don't have to worry about it not getting a good connection inside a store. And I don't have to worry about pulling out a $500 phone and juggling it around every time I want to pay for something.
I actually did find Apple Pay useful once. I went for a quick run to the store with my girlfriend and didn't bring my wallet, but happened to have my phone. Had I brought my wallet, however, I would have just used my card. It was handy to have a backup plan.
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I think that they are missing the real market.
I see it as a replacement for paypal/square.
If I went to a small event and want a tee shirt I can see taping my phone to pay for the shirt. Or if I want to by a drill from a friend.
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Using the phone to replace the cards with bar codes on them is handy because it's removing a number of cards from your wallet. I've got four or five apps for loyalty programs on my phone that means I don't need to have the card in my wallet. I don't have them hooked up to pay automatically but I could with a couple of them.
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The implication is that the additional security offered by Apple Pay (over pinless Tap to pay) will allow it to be used with higher valued transactions.
So you get the speed of NFC without the slower chip and pin delays.
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Unless you have some form of memory loss, the pin delay is inconsequential. Especially if you have more than one card tied to Apple pay at which point they pretty much break even (unlocking, opening a program and selecting the card in Apple pay software, vs hitting 4 numbers in a pin pad).
Not a place where competing is a winning strategy (Score:2)
What black magic happens when I use my credit card? Damned if I know. Magic happens, money comes out of my account and I get stuff. I don't care what incantation is encoded in the stripe, which manufacturer made the card reading machine or what communications technology is behind the scenes. It doesn't matter, because the business taking my money wants my money and I want the stuff.
Similarly, when I plug something into the wall I don't care who made the plug and the wires that provide the power. I don't eve
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I still don't see a need to make my charge card two orders of magnitude more complicated
You will the next time your credit card is compromised.
Oh Sure this will work in the US....eventually (Score:4, Interesting)
I was visiting the USA (California is nice this time of year) last week and I had to sign little pieces of paper with my name to buy things with my credit card. Apparently none of the stores and restaurants have chip and pin terminals. You can't prevent even the most basic fraud if any guy with a card reader can make a copy of your magstripe and clone your card. What's worse, in the restaurant they actually walked off with my card, instead of bringing a wireless terminal to my table for me to enter my PIN. You good people are about 5 years behind the times. WTF happened?
Re:Oh Sure this will work in the US....eventually (Score:5, Interesting)
I was visiting the USA (California is nice this time of year) last week and I had to sign little pieces of paper with my name to buy things with my credit card. Apparently none of the stores and restaurants have chip and pin terminals. You can't prevent even the most basic fraud if any guy with a card reader can make a copy of your magstripe and clone your card. What's worse, in the restaurant they actually walked off with my card, instead of bringing a wireless terminal to my table for me to enter my PIN.
Yup.
You good people are about 5 years behind the times. WTF happened?
Welcome to America, where we like to pretend that we're exceptional while being largely behind the rest of the civilized world in almost every area. I think it's because of money in politics myself, but others will perhaps have other theories.
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And yet your card still worked, so it had a magstrip. And when I go back home to visit family (I'm canadian living in the US), my american cards work fine up there too. So someone could still clone your card, and use the copy. The only thing making it a little trickier is the fact you don't have to hand over the card, but there are ways around that (like a hacked up terminal). There are also vulnerabilities in the chip cards.
What is really protecting you is that the bank will cover your ass if something hap
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And yet your card still worked, so it had a magstrip. And when I go back home to visit family (I'm canadian living in the US), my american cards work fine up there too. So someone could still clone your card, and use the copy.
Many retailers in the UK won't accept signatures any more, because it increases their liability for fraud. My banks tend to refuse signed for transactions anyway unless they are for fairly small amounts. In Japan where chip & pin isn't always the default option yet (it's probably 80% now), I sometimes have to ask to use my PIN instead of signing or it won't go through.
Phone payments are even better. One time code, can't be cloned or re-used. Arbitrary length password or PIN.
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Same thing that happens to all early adopters. Earlier technology becomes entrenched, and it's more difficult for newer, better technology to displace it because the old stuff "mostly works good enough." It's why the ratio of wireless to wired phones is higher in Africa than in Europe.
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Because USA sucks. USA isn't #1 or the best anymore. :(
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Yep we do not have chip and pin but we do have a space probe nearing Pluto.
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Simple we got swipe terminals years before Europe. Chip and Pin is here now in the US. In fact I used it yesterday at a Jon Smiths Sub shop. Most people would not even notice it but I did.
Also credit card fraud was not a big issue in the US until a few years ago. The US will be Chip and Pin by October.
Now bringing the terminal to the table may take a while. Nicer restaurants will probably not want to do that since for some odd reason the taking of the check and bringing it back is a sign of a "quality" rest
Combat Apple Pay? (Score:2)
Combat Apple Pay? To what end? Either you have an Android phone or an Apple phone. They aren't competition for each other, in fact, they can help each other out by increasing the userbase to a point where NFC payments are demanded by consumers at all locations.
P.S. those who talk about speed being an issue, if you've ever used Apple Pay it is by far the fastest payment method (about 3-5 seconds tops.)
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Its a pretty big deal actually. If every time you go to the store, they accept Apple Pay but not Google Wallet, and you're into that kind of thing, eventually you're going to get annoyed and buy a damn iphone.
Barrier will reduce over next couple years (Score:2)
That is definitely true, but most credit card readers in the US that do not support EMV (aka Chip & Pin or Chip & Signature) have to be replaced if the merchant doesn't want to bear the liability for fraudulent transactions.
The liability for compromised cards i
Here's an idea Google (Score:2)
How about Google open their bloody service to countries which actually have NFC machines?
I mean most of Europe and Australia have had the compatible infrastructure for years, and when jumping through loops (or should I say loopholes) you could actually get Google Wallet working with compatible Android handsets 3-4 years ago.
Why is it that I am excited for Apple to finally release something here which should have been effortlessly working 4 years ago?
Google's attempt at "combating" Apple Pay looks like a 3 y
Re:Cash is so much better. (Score:4, Insightful)
Usually purchase speed is in this order:
1: Debit card. (user swipes card, enters PIN, done.)
2: Credit card. (user swipes card, signs, done.)
3: Cash.
4: Checks.
From what I've seen at stores, people fumbling for their phones at stores is actually slower than the coupon-clipper with the checkbook.
If Google's mechanism goes via credit cards like Apple Pay, it would be useful, should I lose my wallet, as a backup mechanism. However, if it is ACH based like CurrenC... then I would avoid it at all costs, since all it takes is one bad transaction, and I'm cleaned out with no recourse.
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Your ordering is wrong.
The correct ordering is:
1) Cash: 15 seconds or less
2) Credit/debit card: 45 seconds or more
3) Smart phone: 1 minute or more
4) Checks: 2 minutes or more
Re:Cash is so much better. (Score:4, Informative)
The correct ordering is:
1) Cash: 15 seconds or less
2) Credit/debit card: 45 seconds or more
Most of my transactions are at self-checkout kiosks for either groceries or gas. Swiping a card is much faster than fumbling with cash. If the transaction is under $50, the kiosk doesn't even ask for a signature, it is just swipe and go.
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Yes, but...
Once your bank switches you to Chip and Pin then swipe becomes unavailable. And your bank WILL be switching you because they don't want the liability to rest with them for unauthorized purchases.
Once they have given you a Chip card then the merchant is liable if they let you swipe (i.e. if they don't upgrade to a chip capable reader.)
So at that point it will be insert and either sign or enter pin.
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Depends how much the transaction is for - here in the UK we have a £30 limit under which we can simply use NFC touch and go, no pin needed.
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As the other poster said, I usually swipe well before the cashier finishes scanning or swipe at some point during a lull in my own scanning (ie: weighing of bananas). Usually don't even need to sign and in some locations, my receipt gets emailed to me. The only negative about credit cards is that I am tracked. The transparency afforded to me is also given to the store and card carrier. But I think the security and convenience is well worth it.
Yes, cash would be faster if I knew exactly how much it would
Re:Cash is so much better. (Score:5, Informative)
Your ordering is wrong.
The correct ordering is:
1) Cash: 15 seconds or less
2) Credit/debit card: 45 seconds or more
3) Smart phone: 1 minute or more
4) Checks: 2 minutes or more
What kind of lame POS system does your coffee shop have? When I go to Starbucks or Peets, it takes me the same amount of time to hand over my card as it does to hand over cash, the difference being that it literally takes them only a second to swipe it, and by they time they hand it back to me, the transaction has already been approved, no signature required.
I don't see how cash could possibly be faster unless I hand them exact change, but even then they still have to count the bills and put them in the drawer, so even if *my* transaction is faster, the next patron has to wait.
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Let them print your check for you and it won't be 2 minutes.
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NFC is actually a touch faster because it doesn't even require handing anything to anybody. Hold your NFC device to the sensor and it'll be done as fast as it takes you to extend your arm to give them the card. I first experienced this level of convenience with Mobile Speedpass 15 years ago, and was hooked... pay for gas in 1 second, every time. Put the thing near the thing, it lights up, and you're done. Simple as lifting your arm.
Cash evangelists are the same people that refused to get a cell phone until
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Google wallet uses à virtual card so that every transaction gets sent to google for treatment & then rerouted onto the real cards they people add to GW. Thus Google are getting a copy of every transaction everyone makes using GW. This ingredibly intrusive individually identified transaction history is what Google is using to make money off of GW.
Apple Pay sets up a token for each card enrolled into it and is architectured so that Apple cannot get a copy of the transactions. Apple gets a cut off of
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Not to mention the double interchange fees.
Google Wallet creates a debit card, provided by the Bank of America. This debit card is what is presented to the
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No way is debit card taking 45 seconds or more. In a Canadian grocery store the average is around 15 seconds.
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Will they cater to us old fogey (32 yr olds) that don't want to be tied to carrying a phone everywhere ?
Who are you talking about that you are concerned won't cater to you? I don't think there is any such Apple Pay/Google Wallet compatible terminal that doesn't accept card transactions.
Advantages of phone (Score:4, Interesting)
I have no idea why I'd want to use my phone instead of a card.
There is also some potential increase of security:
Unlike (nearly) every card(*), the phone is a device that has its own display and input interface.
Meaning that you don't need to trust the payment terminal(**).
- No risk of skimmer trying to read you PIN: you're typing it into your own phone, not on the terminal which could have been hacked/modded.
- You can trust the amount displayed (again, you are reading your own phone's screen, so even if the terminal is hacked to display a lower sum and actually bill a higher sum, you'll notive the discrepancies).
Also, the phone has connectivity, which allows out-of-band confirmation for the transaction (***).
Thus, the device is protected against fraud that could menace a classical card.
- hacked terminals showing bogus transaction amounts, or trying to record your PIN.
- hackers trying to relay a transaction (small amount are "tap/swap only": no signature neither PIN asked. It's possible to use a powerful antena pointed at a wireless credit card to remotely use it and relay communication to a terminal).
Saddly, the phones have their own problems:
- they eat batteries like candy (even wireless credit card transaction are remotely powered by the terminal. Whereas a dead phone is dead and can't be used for paying).
- again, they are conencted. Which means that they could be compromised themselves. (Specially since people tend to install tons of crap).
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(*): I've seen banks issuing cards used for e-banking that have a build-in screen and keypad. Similar devices are in theory possible on a credit card.
(**): lots of e-banking card reader do exactly that: you can check on the screen what you are asked to sign.
(***): That's a security feature that's also offered by combining classical credit cards and separate connected device. I can be asked to confirm by SMS / by voice call when the bank detects unusual traffic on my credit card.
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Saddly, the phones have their own problems: - they eat batteries like candy (even wireless credit card transaction are remotely powered by the terminal. Whereas a dead phone is dead and can't be used for paying). - again, they are conencted. Which means that they could be compromised themselves. (Specially since people tend to install tons of crap).
Not to mention they are supposed to be connected but if you don't have reception or there is an interruption to cell service you can't pay.
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Not to mention they are supposed to be connected but if you don't have reception or there is an interruption to cell service you can't pay.
With Google Wallet you need a connection to periodically (15 minutes, 24 hours, infinity) enter the PIN but other than that you don't need a connection to make a purchase. I have my PIN timeout set to 24 hours and I just make sure it's unlocked before I go somewhere where I might use it.
With a connection I get an alert when the transaction goes through (as soon as I get a connection if I don't have one at the time) and a later email verification of the payment.
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Not to mention they are supposed to be connected but if you don't have reception or there is an interruption to cell service you can't pay.
I don't think Apple Pay needs any WiFi or 3G service to work. Obviously the terminal might, but if that has no connection, then nothing will work.
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Even well skilled cashiers take time to gather change out of the drawer. I suspect if you studied this as closely as retailers do, you'd be disappointed. Cash is not automatically faster.
Over twice your age, and my phone goes everywhere (Score:3)
You young whippersnappers have so little appreciation for the value of technology. At the pharmacy, I can do a tap-the-terminal NFC payment faster than you can use cash, and with no annoying change to carry around. It navigates me to the early bird special at the diner. It remembers every doctor in town for me. I can make the print in the Kindle app as large as I need when I'm reading books. It can track annuities of any complexity the brokerage can throw at me. It schedules my HOA meetings and lets me get
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My experience:
1. ApplePay, when the store has implemented it right (about 2 seconds, hold up device, done)
2. Debit Card (about 20 seconds to swipe and enter pin)
3. Credit Card (about 30 seconds to swipe and sign)
4. Cash (about a minute to make change)
5. ApplePay, when the store has implemented it wrong, and required the user to fill in a form on the terminal.
6. Checks.
Only used it when they paid me (Score:5, Insightful)
Last year, Softcard bribed me - cash, Amazon gift cards, etc. to use their service.
This year, they stopped, and I went back to swiping my credit card.
The problem is that Softcard payment requires more steps than you think:
1) Unlock phone
2) Open app
3) Type in 4-digit pin (why can't I use my fingerprint?)
4) Tap
Also, the tap is not as easy as you think. The first time you do it like the video, it probably won't work. On my S5, the sweet spot is actually in the middle of the phone horizontally across middle of NFC reader, and once I figured that out, I usually succeeded on the first try. However, some card readers just suck and will frequently require multiple tries. Rite Aid card readers, before they stopped accepting it, were the most likely to have this problem (and it was always the same ones at particular registers that gave me trouble).
The way it SHOULD work is that I put my phone over the NFC reader, it asks me for fingerprint, and done. Reality bites.
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You are right, the phone should just wake up and launch the default payment app automatically when it is near the payment pad
I don't see why they haven't implemented this. I know it's definitely possible and not terribly hard, since there are already apps on the play store that can wake and unlock the phone on contact with an RFID card.
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That's what my Galaxy S5 does. I do have to unlock the phone, but you hold it over the reader and the app comes up. The only thing that slows me down is when the payment terminal asks irrelevant and/or annoying questions. When I was at the vet the other day it wanted to know "Credit or Debit"? WTF? And at the grocery store it wanted to know if I wanted cash back. If they stop asking questions like these, the transactions would be quicker.
My preferences (excluding online purchases) are:
1) EMV credit ca
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The problem is that Softcard payment requires more steps than you think:
Don't forget the effort to unroot your phone in order to install the app. I unrooted mine just long enough to spend their bribe money.
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On my S5, the sweet spot is actually in the middle of the phone horizontally across middle of NFC reader
And it is probably in a position that will move when your phone changes orientation, which it will inevitably do multiple times while you are trying to make a purchase.
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If I intend to use my Softcard, I've opened it, entered my PIN, and put it back in my pocket on the way into the store, or while I'm in line.
This is not so hard.
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The way it SHOULD work is that I put my phone over the NFC reader, it asks me for fingerprint, and done. Reality bites.
Hey, what do you know? That's exactly how Apple Pay works.
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1: Cash.
2: A big gap.
3: Debit card. (user swipes card, enters PIN, done.)
4: Credit card. (user swipes card, signs, done.)
5: Something that no longer exists in civilised nations.
Fixed that for you.
Cash is by far and away the fastest form of payment. Having to wait for the EFTPOS terminal to contact the bank takes far longer than getting change from the cashier.
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Cash is by far and away the fastest form of payment. Having to wait for the EFTPOS terminal to contact the bank takes far longer than getting change from the cashier.
Do you live in the boonies or something? Every transaction approval I've had for the last 15 years has been nearly instantaneous.
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You must have a very strange definition of "instantaneous".
Because I have travelled extensively, including the US and transactions have always taken longer than just using cash. Every single time.
This is because the EFT terminal needs to contact the bank.
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This is because the EFT terminal needs to contact the bank.
You mean the few hundred millisecond roundtrip via the network.
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This is because the EFT terminal needs to contact the bank.
You mean the few hundred millisecond roundtrip via the network.
Again you have a strange definition of "millisecond".
There is at least a 5 second processing time. Closer to 10 seconds in most cases.
A few milliseconds doesn't even cover the time it takes the checkout operator to press the button that sends the transaction to the EFT processor for you to insert your card (my country uses chip and pin, my current card doesn't even have a magstripe).
Lets not even consider those smaller stores who need to key in the price manually because the EFTPOS system isn't lin
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And my card details are never provided to the merchant with Google Wallet.
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"There is at least a 5 second processing time. Closer to 10 seconds in most cases"
The acquirer takes 2 seconds tops. 60-200 millisecond round trip.
The rest are POS issues, and even small stores have systems that don't take 7 seconds to give the operator the thumbs up...
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Major retailers track auth processing on the order of milliseconds. Online retailers track them down to tens of microseconds. Most acquirers commit to no more than a 2 second response. Varying from this regularly by 100 milliseconds is a three-alarm emergency. These retailers call them on the carpet when they see this. It's considered 'friction', and they want 'frictionless' transactions. Once you click 'buy', they want this to happen fast fast fast.
In the old days, sonny, a 10 second auth was the goal
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You obviously have not used NFC with Tap to pay...
Outside of the US where NFC enabled terminals are available:
1. Tap to pay with NFC - 5 seconds or less
2. Debit or Credit card with chip - insert and pay - 15 seconds
3. Credit card without chip - swipe and sign 20 seconds, depends on how long it takes to get the receipt and sign it
4. Cash - depends on how long it takes you to count it out, the clerk to recount and then count your change
5. Cheque - unknown, who takes cheques anymore?
I get very annoyed when peo
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There is a speed issue.
You tap your phone and it launches wallet.
you put in a code
you tap again.
I find it fastest if I launch and put in the code before I get the reader. The one issue I worry about is could I be charged for someone elses purchase.
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Speed depends on the gear that the merchant has, and the process that the consumer uses.
At Kroger, my debit-based magstripe credit card transactions happen nearly instantly -- less than a second -- and I don't have to sign anything if it's under $50.
It goes like this: Swipe card, begin to think about putting it back in my wallet, and the receipt printer goes *whoosh* with a flurry of thermal paper. Put card in wallet, and the clerk is handing my receipt to me by the time my wallet is away.
It takes longer
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I get so sick and tired of seeing people use some sort of a card or device to pay for small purchases. It's never as quick as cash is.
Perhaps its because of where you live? Where I live, chip and pin is ubiquitous, and tap (e.g. "Visa PayWave") is starting to become very common.
Tap is the fastest by far.
Chip and Pin is next.
Cash is next after that.
When other people pay with credit card or debit card or their phones, it ends up taking at least 30 seconds,
Apparently you've never seen Visa PayWave in action.
If somebody can't find their card right away,
Yes, that's a problem that only happens with cards. Nobody has ever not been able to find their cash right away. It has magic properties such that a $20 note is always in the pocket you expect it to be... while one's cards move around like ninj
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When other people pay with credit card or debit card or their phones, it ends up taking at least 30 seconds.
Maybe if you're used to antiquated payment card methods but with NFC it's not like that at all [youtube.com].
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Ridiculous. It's way quicker to pull the card out, swipe it, and put the card back in... than it is to pull cash out, figure out the right amount of bills, wait for change, get change (INCLUDING ANNOYING COINS), put bills back in wallet, put change in pocket..
It's faster AND cheaper (due to cash back) to use my credit card. Yes, prices are theoretically higher overall, but
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I use Softcard at least once a day. Six seconds to complete the transaction. It takes the cashier longer to open the drawer, put the dollar and three dimes in the drawer and close it. And that requires I leave the penny change. More time if I bring her a dollar, a quarter, a nickel, and wait for the penny.
And the POS is truly a real POS. It takes an extra 2 seconds to complete the transaction that it need not. A regular card takes no longer, save that the swipe takes fractionally longer than my tap.
You
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No fucking way ... no fucking way ..
an idiot on the internet... no fucking way...
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Ok AC, let's hear the tinfoil hat conspiracy: how is a new technology that fights fraud going to "double bankruptcies and suicides"?
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That's why if you go anywhere in Europe, all you see a depopulated wasteland. They have been using NFC/EMV terminals for years.
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Citation needed. What's the fraud vs total sales? And what are the losses faced by the actual consumers in each situation.
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2. They don't solve any problems.
Please explain how "rampant fraud" is not a problem.
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Please explain how they add expense over NFC support?
If you are upgrading your reader to handle chip and pin, then you will also be able to get that with NFC. Possibly that will be slightly more cost than just chip and pin. But that is all you need to support Apple Pay or Google Wallet.
Now IFF you had said Apple Pay, Google Pay OR NFC is expensive... but the incremental cost of the reader is not that much. And you will want to upgrade to chip and pin (if you are in the US) to avoid liability issues (Oct 201
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It can't be seized through civil forfeiture quite as easily.