Windows 10 Upgrade Activates By Clicking Red X Close Button In Prompt Message (bbc.co.uk) 564
Reader Raging Bool writes: In a move guaranteed to annoy many people, Microsoft has "jumped the shark" on encouraging users to upgrade to Windows 10. Microsoft has faced criticism for changing the pop-up box encouraging Windows users to upgrade to Windows 10. Clicking the red cross on the right hand corner of the pop-up box now activates the upgrade instead of closing the box. And this has caused confusion as typically clicking a red cross closes a pop-up notification. The upgrade could still be cancelled, when the scheduled time for it to begin appeared, Microsoft said
The change occurred because the update is now labelled "recommended" and many people have their PCs configured to accept recommended updates for security reasons. This means dismissing the box does not dismiss the update.Brad Chacos, senior editor at the PC World wrote about this incident over the weekend, and described it as a "nasty trick".
This steaming pile of rancid dung (Score:5, Funny)
That's it, I'm getting my Commodore 64 out of the closet and booting up GEOS.
Re:This steaming pile of rancid dung (Score:5, Funny)
As soon as you boot up your Commodore 64, it'll ask you if you want to upgrade to Windows 10. Even if you say you don't, it'll force you to Windows 10 anyways.
Re:This steaming pile of rancid dung (Score:5, Funny)
Dammit, they were playing the longest of long cons with their Microsoft BASIC [wikipedia.org].
Re: (Score:3)
Re:This steaming pile of rancid dung (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, if you're a horror fan, you won't find any game on the C64 that's scarier than doing the custom Windows 10 installation and seeing all the default settings for data collection and "privacy."
Seriously, there is some REALLY crazy shit in there. If you go default, you're basically giving MS the right to watch and collect EVERYTHING you do online. IIRC, one of the default settings even lets them go through your old emails to "better serve you" or some shit. That Cortana is one nosy bitch.
So it's our fault (Score:5, Insightful)
For following years of best practice of automatically installing updates on home machines.
Got it.
Re: (Score:3)
> So it's our fault // For following years of best practice
No, but it arguably is everyone's fault for trusting Microsoft at all.
Computer administration is an actual job, and OS manufactures and distributors have jumped through hoops to make this vastly better than "please visit our website and download and apply these patches at a command line". But in doing this, you end up trusting both the intentions and the technical competence of those involved. For a mainline Linux distro or a BSD, this is a sol
Re:So it's our fault (Score:5, Insightful)
You could get started with a dual-boot partition now. When 10 happened, it was the final straw. I couldn't believe the bizarre technical workarounds everyone started doing. I knew I couldn't even leave Windows 7 updates on, and I could certainly never use 10. Since a machine without updates is a problem waiting to happen, I installed Linux onto a second drive, and tried to spend as much time there as possible. Obviously, this meant I was still booting Windows for many things, but every week I would make time to get a new thing working in Linux. Usually, it was easy- the nvidia drivers were painless, Steam client could then install and run any of a ton of Linux games, LibreOffice was a lot better than I remember. Sometimes it was a bit of a pain- MAME needed a code modification and compile to not have a nag screen (windows would have this problem too, but often people post nagless binaries for Windows, if you like to run random binaries straight off the net), WINE needed some configuration, etc.
But eventually I noticed that my reasons to boot Windows were finally very slim. Every game I cared about I could get running in WINE (but obviously not every game, and you could easily find that your games you care about don't work). Productivity stuff seems to work great for my needs, at least. Not everything works- currently I can't get itunes to work, and there's that tax software that I'll need again next year. I might run a VM, I don't know yet.
If you plan to stay with Windows 7 until 2020, you don't need to act now. But you might still consider it. Vulkan should eventually really help games on Linux, and you might find that your games are already well supported.
Windows 7 got the telemetry patched in last spring, and then they turned it on in the summer. You can wusa uninstall those updates, or you can just go without updates at all. But that deliberate mislabelling and stealthing in of the technology made me flip my shit. How does the saying go? "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again!"
I just think running an OS from a known-hostile entity is bad news, if you can avoid it.
Avoid Wine, try online tax, shell is powerful (Score:3)
I thought I'd throw in a few thoughts for people transitioning away from Windows.
Wine, a program that runs Windows software on Linux, might look attractive at first. Most of the time, it works better to run Linux / open software on Linux. You'll probably end up happier if you consider Wine as last resort, when you really want a specific brand of software (game?) that's Windows-only. How often did you use a Linux emulator to run Linux software on Windows? Examples - use Chrome or Firefox, rather than trying
Re: (Score:3)
I disabled updates around service pack 1. No issues
The botnet software you're unaware of on your machine is reporting 'no issues' too.
Red X? (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps you mean the white X inside the red square?
But, yeah, this is the kind of thing that malware authors use. It's pretty shady.... if people don't want to upgrade, they don't want to upgrade. You gave them the box and you downloaded (and expanded) all of the files... you have already done everything you can to "promote" Windows 10 (intrusively) on people's computers...
Why are you stooping to this Microsoft?
You may as well just not give people a "choice" at all and just install the damn thing... why the pretense of having a user click something?
Re: (Score:3)
Re: Red X? (Score:3)
Yep, through the Gibson Research tool.
Re: (Score:3)
why the pretense of having a user click something?
Lawyers. They probably feel this is unethical as hell, but can probably get away without being pulled over the coals by various courts/authorities.
Re:Red X? (Score:4, Insightful)
The opposite, I think. The MS lawyers would have tried to stop this. This will absolutely lead to a class action lawsuit, and probably a shareholder lawsuit as well. Even if Microsoft wins the lawsuits, it will cost them tens of Millions, at a minimum.
I think the lawyers would have tried like hell to stop this, so they must have been over-ruled. However much MS is expecting to make from user data over the next few years must be estimated to be vastly greater than they are expecting to pay out in lawsuits over this upgrade tactic.
Now this could be good or bad. If the people at MS who estimated how great a market share Windows phones would have, or how much Windows 8 would be loved did the estimation, MS has just destroyed its own future. They would have projected that the money to be made by mining and selling data from Windows 10 users would have made $ trillions, when it will actually be worth a few $ thousand. If actual actuaries and accountants with a realistic view of the world did the estimation and were able to still over-rule the lawyers, MS is going to be selling their windows 10 users down the river to make a ton of money, be prepared to be assaulted by advertising.
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Uh, no. Microsoft's lawyers already have this base covered:
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Re:Red X? (Score:5, Funny)
Adult Supervision (Score:5, Insightful)
It seems like all adult supervision has disappeared at Microsoft.
Re: Adult Supervision (Score:3)
Mimics Malware (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mimics Malware (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
I see your point. But when has malware every cared which button you clicked before installing?
oh...yeah... I see your point.
Re:Mimics Malware (Score:4, Insightful)
Malware authors don't have PR specialists on staff. Microsoft does. And the PR people probably suggested that at least allow the victims to click a button first so that MS can claim they didn't install anything without permission.
Just look at the naive excuses Microsoft gives out, even with this latest fiasco.
"Based on customer feedback, in the most recent version of the Get Windows 10 (GWX) app, we confirm the time of your scheduled upgrade and provide you an additional opportunity for cancelling or rescheduling the upgrade." (it's what customers wanted!)
"With the free Windows 10 upgrade offer ending on 29 July, we want to help people upgrade to the best version of Windows." (they're being helpful!)
""Customers can choose to accept or decline the Windows 10 upgrade." (so it must be the customer's fault)
Re: (Score:2)
I move to Linux mint because of this. I decided I would prefer to have a to fiddle with my computer more than dealing with windows 10 "features".
I refused to upgrade from windows 7 to 10 on my new skylake computer. I currently use linux for about 90% of my computing. If windows 10 manages to force its self onto me I will just uninstall.
Re: (Score:3)
It's a never ending learning curve, great for techies who use it everyday and who's focus is on Linux itself, but annoying as hell if you just wanted to get some work done.
Nope, I'm a techie who uses Linux professionally and I don't like it either. You're absolutely right about them needing to start standardizing; it's way way overdue. The Gnome3 debacle, Unity, and consequential explosion of desktops made it much worse.
Re: (Score:3)
Then that's your choice.
Microsoft provides one option, with certain costs & limitations.
Apple provides a different option, with different costs & limitations.
Pay your money, make your choice.
Don't like either? Go with linux & its OTHER limitations.
DMCA (Score:5, Funny)
Cant the makers of XP Antivirus 2010 issue some sort of DMCA cease and desist against Microsoft for infringing on their intellectual property? I believe they were the first ones to invent "Pressing the [ X ] button will initiate installation of said software..."
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Re: (Score:3)
Just sleazy and unethical.
No (Score:2)
I don't think "jump the shark" means what you think it mean.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Wikipedia defines it as "an idiom popularized by Jon Hein that was used to describe the moment in the evolution of a television show when it begins a decline in quality, signaled by a particular scene, episode, or aspect of a show in which the writers use some type of gimmick in an attempt to keep viewers' interest, which is taken as a sign of desperation, and is seen by viewers to be the point at which the show strayed irretrievably from its original formula", so I'd say it's close enough.
Personally, I'd h
Re:No (Score:4, Informative)
Wikipedia defines it as "an idiom popularized by Jon Hein that was used to describe the moment in the evolution of a television show when it begins a decline in quality, signaled by a particular scene, episode, or aspect of a show in which the writers use some type of gimmick in an attempt to keep viewers' interest, which is taken as a sign of desperation, and is seen by viewers to be the point at which the show strayed irretrievably from its original formula", so I'd say it's close enough.
Personally, I'd have gone with "Screwed the pooch" or "Shit the bed".
But you forgot the originating reference [youtube.com]. It's makes no sense without that.
Almost as stupid as Skype (Score:5, Insightful)
The X button means fucking **quit**, not "minimize", you UI retards. If you're going to hijack the last 40 years of WIMP then give users an option to enable / disable this shit. Preferably the default would be OFF.
Microsoft Windows: noun, A 64-bit compilation of 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor written by a 2 bit company that can't stand 1 bit of competition with 0 bit of understanding good UI.
Re:Almost as stupid as Skype (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
When it's misbehaving, most of the time TASKKILL /F is intentionally ignored by Microsoft and they refuse to stop their garbage.
Wow, really? The Three-Fingered Salute should be the end-all nuclear option of "don't argue with me, just fucking do it."
Time for a class action. (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft, you gave us this OS and introduced the masses to the concept of windows in a UI. You were even arrogant enough to name your UI Windows.
And all this time, we have gone through several iterations of your UI, but one constant has remained; the general understanding that if you click the fucking X located in a specific area of any window in your UI, it closes.
This has been by design since the dawn of Windows.
And since you've now taken the path of malware authors with this shady bullshit, we should treat you as such. It's one thing to ask users. It's one thing to force users. It's another matter entirely to trick and deceive users.
Bottom line is it's time to start the class-action lawsuit. This should not be tolerated in any way. Put another way, if malware was introduced into the core OS and deceived users against Microsoft's wishes, you better believe they would be attacking the cause of that problem and look to put a stop to it.
OK (Score:5, Insightful)
Enjoy winning your lawsuit in a decade and getting a coupon for $10 off Office 2026.
Re: (Score:2)
The "X" was added in Windows 95, not Windows 1.01.
Typical of Windows fanboys to not know their own history.
Sorry, I was rather busy cutting my teeth on UNIX before Windows 95 came along. Rather glad I acquired that knowledge (which is still useful 25 years later) rather than screwing around with early versions of Windows, which is about as relevant as the point you were attempting to make here.
Try not to assume so hard next time. I'm hardly a fanboy. Windows sits on my hard drive by force, not by choice.
And people say Apple is arrogant? (Score:2)
I can't think of anything the fruit peddler has done that comes close to the arrogance Microsoft is showing regarding anything about Windows 10.
It's enough to make a cynical paranoid think Microsoft is being paid to be this obnoxious and intrusive. Paid by whom? I'll leave that to the conspiracy theorists.
Win 10 sounds like a data-collecting piece of spyware, don't it?
Re:And people say Apple is arrogant? (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm going to upgrade your car next week. Nothing you can do about it.
It'll look shinier, but I pulled a few cables, and put your old engine & tires in it.
Hopefully, I didn't pull too many cables.
It's just good for you, and free.
Don't whine if it doesn't work as well as your old car, you were stubbornly refusing to upgrade.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes the upgrade tactics have been heavy handed. But so has the push back
This is akin to excusing rape because the victim refused consensual sex. Microsoft needing to resort to underhanded tactics to get people to use win10 does not excuse Microsoft needing to resort to underhanded tactics to get people to use win10.
Re:And people say Apple is arrogant? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes the upgrade tactics have been heavy handed. But so has the push back, the FUD from sites like Slashdot and other supposed "tech" blogs. If you have an Android phone and are bitching about Windows 10 you're a fucking hypocrite, full stop.
Saying "Company X is doing this bad thing, but if given the chance, Company Y would do the exact same thing" does not prove that the thing is fine to do.
So no, not hypocrisy. If Google were in this situation I'd be criticizing them exactly the same.
Honestly, I can't 100% blame them. We witnessed how hard people hung onto XP. I still see companies with Windows Server 2003 in play (some of them still DEPLOY 2003). We know there are large swathes of people that simply do not accept change, no matter how good it might be (there are legitimate debates about win10 being better).
Their marketshare is not my concern. My ability to use my own computer is.
Re:And people say Apple is arrogant? (Score:5, Insightful)
Their market share is not my concern. My ability to own my own computer is.
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It's already scheduled, not caused by "X" (Score:5, Insightful)
From what I see, it schedules the upgrade, and you have to opt out by going into some other settings to cancel.
It's not that the "X" activates the upgrade - at that point, it's too late.
Still, it's very shady not to give users an obvious choice on the popup, let alone not making it an "opt in" choice.
All of my machines are running Windows 10... shrugs... at this point, all the bitching is basically all about the point of the matter. Win 10 runs fine on the machines I've installed it on (several laptops, 9 or 10 desktops, some 10+ years old). Unless you have some particularly specific niche software or hardware (that can't run in Win7, therefore, not in Win10, since the drivers are mostly the same), people really shouldn't have too many complaints.
I'd be more concerned if Microsoft was pushing people to Win8 and the crappy fail that was the Metro Start Screen. Win10 dialed it back and makes more sense in the case of a desktop/mobile hybrid OS. Still, the exec who is pushing this sort of tactic needs to be fired ASAP.
Re:It's already scheduled, not caused by "X" (Score:5, Interesting)
You are missing the point of why people don't want Win10.
I was planning on doing the upgrade. And then I read about the mandatory spyware. You know, the phone-home that you cannot disable unless you are running an Enterprise version?
Some people don't want to have that. Others CANNOT have that and remain within the bounds of the law (*cough*HIPAA*cough*).
Re:It's already scheduled, not caused by "X" (Score:5, Insightful)
The lack of control over updates and when the computer reboots is pretty awful too.
Re:It's already scheduled, not caused by "X" (Score:5, Insightful)
If you carry a smartphone (iOS or Android), you *ALREADY* are carrying around a device that generates reams of telemetry back to the cellular carrier, manufacturer, and OS maker and generates a full record of your movement by which cell towers you connect to or which wi-fi hotspots it sees.
Enough with this red herring.
My phone doesn't have access to the files on my computers - I repeat, my computers, not Microsoft's - where I keep my private data. My computers, not my phone, store my tax documents, source code, proprietary work product and trade secrets, client data and invoicing, my passwords to everything, backups of family members' computers containing much of the same personal information, etc. My computers, not my phone, are where I conduct online banking and shopping and do anything else involving financial transactions and credentials. All of that data is private, and no one has permission to go fishing through it trying to "monetize" me or "enhance my experience." This is non-negotiable.
Google (or NSA) can siphon whatever they want off my phone. They'll find out I play Words with Friends, check Slashdot and Ars while I'm taking a dump, send and receive mostly boring emails on the account connected to the phone, and probably am overzealous about the number of server monitoring texts I have set up. If I really don't want to be physically tracked for some reason, I can leave the phone somewhere or pull the battery and drop the phone in a Faraday bag.
Just because I'm relatively OK with my phone being "leaky," and therefore rather cautious about what winds up there, does not mean I also must accept anyone mining through my private data on my computers. They are two entirely different worlds.
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From what I see, it schedules the upgrade, and you have to opt out by going into some other settings to cancel.
It's not that the "X" activates the upgrade - at that point, it's too late.
Still, it's very shady not to give users an obvious choice on the popup, let alone not making it an "opt in" choice.
All of my machines are running Windows 10... shrugs... at this point, all the bitching is basically all about the point of the matter. Win 10 runs fine on the machines I've installed it on (several laptops, 9 or 10 desktops, some 10+ years old). Unless you have some particularly specific niche software or hardware (that can't run in Win7, therefore, not in Win10, since the drivers are mostly the same), people really shouldn't have too many complaints.
I'd be more concerned if Microsoft was pushing people to Win8 and the crappy fail that was the Metro Start Screen. Win10 dialed it back and makes more sense in the case of a desktop/mobile hybrid OS. Still, the exec who is pushing this sort of tactic needs to be fired ASAP.
I upgrade 2 out of 3 of our coputers to 10. But the last one is our HTPC with Windows 8 + Media Center on it. Media Center doesn't exist on windows 10 and never will so the last thing I want on that computer is the upgrade. Having to go through all this non-sense to avoid the "upgrade" is unacceptable. We're not dealing with a shady company from Ukraine or India here, this is Microsoft for crying out loud! This is insane. I am totally p*ssed at M$ right now.
Re:It's already scheduled, not caused by "X" (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless you have some particularly specific niche software or hardware (that can't run in Win7, therefore, not in Win10, since the drivers are mostly the same)....
Windows 10 auto-installed on a customer's newish Windows 7 computer, hosing the entire installation. I installed Kubuntu 15.10, and now he's a happy camper. He said his computer works better now than it did before.
Windows 10 is a gift to the Linux world.
So this is just now... (Score:4, Informative)
In a surprising coincidence, I had just finished reading this article when my son burst in saying "Hey Dad something's strange with the gaming PC, it's shutting down saying it's configuring itself for the Windows 10 upgrade, but I never accept that!"
I have a backup . . .
Re:So this is just now... (Score:5, Informative)
I have a headless windows 7 fileserver in my 5 person office (so, no, I'm not going to shell out bullshit money for enterprise windows, thanks). Had, actually. We got in the office this Monday and right away the accountant noticed that quickbooks was down, and thus we noticed the fileserver was offline. Hooked up a monitor and sometime over the weekend it decided to upgrade to windows 10.
No idea why shills like you keep insisting that people must be pushing the wrong button. Is the "X" button the wrong button now? Are you going to tell us we're holding the mouse wrong (cf holding the iPhone wrong)?
And people tell me that fucking with random system shit means that Linux isn't ready for the desktop
Nailed my coworkers business (Score:2)
One of my fellow engineers also owns a pet store (run by his wife and son). Over the weekend their computer that runs their point of sale software upgraded itself. The store's software does not run on Windows 10, so this was a mess for them while they spent the effort and time to downgrade. He is suitably pissed.
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Another Nasty Surprise: Flash installed by default (Score:4, Interesting)
Over the weekend I set up a new Win 10 machine for Dad (store bought HP Envy). Going through updates and installs I found one nasty surprise, Flash was installed by default on this box. I was hoping to wean him over to HTML5 with this upgrade (from Vista !), but HP builds them with Flash already in place. Went ahead and made Firefox64 the default browser, and Chrome as an alternative, but since Cortana and all MS services default to MS Edge no matter what you set, it's going to be a mixed operation from now on
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Let me guess, you can't uninstall those things, despite the EU ruling that doing that with Internet Explorer was illegal...
EU (Score:2)
Shady Malware Practice (Score:2)
This is the same crap that malware distributors use to trick you into installing garbage on your system, displaying fake windows with fake widgets.
Why not just force the install without any user interaction at all? That would be more honest. This aren't getting consent, they aren't allowing user choice, so why the trickery to somehow involve the user in a process you're going to do with or without them?
The only think I can think is that it is a victim-blaming manipulation strategy. Most people will try
We are Microsoft.... (Score:5, Funny)
We are upgrading your system...resistance is futile...
Re:We are Microsoft."I resist" (Score:3)
People used to laugh at me when I told them my Win 7 install is never connected to a network.
Not misleading in the least (Score:5, Insightful)
Look, there are a zillion things that MS did which are sneaky and downright reprehensible with regards to pushing Windows 10, but this is NOT one of them. Has anybody seen the actual dialog? It is NOT a question asking whether you want to upgrade. It is only a notification informing you that your PC is scheduled to upgrade since you have recommended updates turned on. Your PC would have updated to 10 in any case even if that dialog were not to popup, because 10 is a recommended upgrade. This notification is in reality offering you a chance to opt of it - I remember "click here if you want to change your update setting or cancel the upgrade" or something of that sort. Then an OK button. Clicking on "X" is not somehow "activating" an upgrade. It actually does nothing, as required of a notification dialog - it is just letting the already scheduled upgrade proceed, which is what one should expect.
If anything is sneaky, it is TFA which portrays the dialog box in a false light. The entire media just repeats without once stopping to think - it has become fashionable in tech media to hit on MS pushing Win 10, but this kind of reporting only detracts from the credibility of reporting on all the real sneaky things that MS is doing.
Re:Not misleading in the least (Score:5, Insightful)
The message used to say something like "Do you want to install Windows 10 now, or do you want to schedule your Windows 10 installation for later?" Clicking the X was the only way to say 'neither'. Now clicking the X says yeah, go ahead. You don't see this as sneaky in any way?
Remember a month ago when people were saying that there was no way you could accidently consent to installing Windows 10?
The only sane solution is to turn off all updates from Microsoft.
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Free Software Is Necessary (Score:5, Insightful)
This is exactly why free software (in the vein of what Richard Stallman calls for) needs to be supported. *YOU*, the user, must own complete control over your computer and the software it runs, not developers (much of the more liberal open source licenses are about developer rights, not user rights -- big difference!) or corporations.
I know many of you would object, "But I bought this computer, it's not Microsoft's!". Well I wholeheartedly agree, but the thing is, Windows being proprietary closed source means that Microsoft has a claim to intellectual property rights. Microsoft believes that you license Windows, not own it. Essentially, they still own the software on your computer. Again, I know that *you* disagree, but it kinda doesn't matter what you think -- Microsoft has money and lawyers and they push for the outcome they want. Which is to own your computer. And if they own it, they're technically allowed to do whatever they want with it, including force upgrades. That is the nature of licensing agreements -- you agree to their licensing rules, which means they can do whatever they want.
If this bothers you, switch to a free software OS. Some flavor of Linux or even BSD. Get involved in the free software community, both the technical community (making more/better free software) and the political community (that lobbies for changes to copyright law, tries to get government to adopt open standards, etc.). We have to fight back, or you can expect more behavior like this from Microsoft, Apple, etc., in the future.
It's the new business model (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Security (Score:4, Funny)
I could give you many reasons for why you are wrong, but it's simpler to tell a troll like you to go f*ck yourself.
Microsoft are deeply ashamed of all the Windows that came before 10 and would prefer everyone forget they ever existed. I kind of feel for them.
Re:Security (Score:5, Interesting)
You assume that they are truly proud of what they have now. Windows 10 (especially on mobile) has been a cluster f. It shipped too early, unpolished and only barley tested (which isn't unexpected when you fire all of your testers the year before).
Pity them. Windows for desktops/laptops/devices is dying and they are desperate to make and/or keep it relevant.
The only money making that happens wrt Windows today and likely in the future is as the backend of Azure... which does sort of make you wonder given their push to CoreCLR (ie not Windows centric), at what point they fire most of the devs behind Windows, put the business into sustained engineering mode and ride the wave until it finally ends (ala Radio Shack).
Re:Security (Score:5, Informative)
Gaming and Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Disclaimer, I do use Windows 10 on my machines at home and especially my gaming rig.
The laptops, because that was what came installed, but the gaming rig, obviously since it is actually pretty good for gaming.
I do not really mind the OS itself, but I am growing tired of this constant crap they are pulling. Like forcing my to use Bing! I fucking hate Bing. If I accidentally search with Bing, I will go to google and search again even if the Bing answer may have been correct. I HATE Bing!
I really hope that this year, with Vulcan coming online, my biggest reason for not switching to Linux will be gone. I can imagine that Steam can really help to push Linux on gaming with the HTC vive. I have ordered it myself.
I'll need to update my graphics card, but I need to see what's on tap from AMD first.
It could finally be time for the Linux desktop.
Re: (Score:3)
Just one? Seeing ads on startup and being forced to share more and more information are too high a price for a "free" upgrade.
That's two.
Re:Security (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft security support for Win7/8 for the next decade or so?
Re:Security (Score:5, Informative)
Until literally this week, there were no hardware drivers available for our receipt printers. Without GWX Control Panel, an automatic Windows 10 upgrade would literally put us out of business. Is that a good enough reason for you? Probably not.
Re: (Score:3)
Since the Windows Drive Model hardly changed between Windows versions I've not found a driver that existed in Windows 7/8 that didn't currently work in 10. I even got the serial port connected touchscreen in my vista era General Dynamics notebook working on Windows 10.
Sometime an MSI installer would check the Windows version (fix with Orca) or need to be run in "Compatibility Mode" - but I have all sorts of long unsupported hardware running in Windows 10.
The real kick will be when an automatic Windows updat
Re:Security (Score:4, Insightful)
Since the Windows Drive Model hardly changed between Windows versions I've not found a driver that existed in Windows 7/8 that didn't currently work in 10.
You've apparently never worked with Epson receipt printers. When I tried the Win 7 drivers on Win 8, it blue screened so hard the blue screen crashed. That's 7 to 8, not 7 to 10. Our receipt printers would cost at least $100k to replace, and until two days day, our point of sale vendor (they have the only software that works correctly with the national franchise) did not sell a printer that had working Windows 8 drivers. Yes, they are very slow updating stuff; they test thoroughly, and yes, they suck in many ways, but it would cost us seven figures to replace them, and nothing we could build ourselves would actually work.
Microsoft knows there are millions of computers out there that cannot be upgraded without destroying the ability to perform the work they were bought to perform. And they don't care.
And that's fraudulent.
Re:Security (Score:4, Insightful)
I understand it perfectly. That's why I know what a sleazy bunch of malware distributors Microsoft has become.
We have little choice on software that we use for point of sale. What we use is the only system that interacts with the national franchise, so if we don't use it, 300+ employees are out of a job. We don't write hardware driver for printers, and we don't write the software that interacts with those drivers. We can't. No retailer our size can. The resources simply aren't there. If you believe otherwise, you have no idea what you're jabbering about.
The only alternative to keeping a close watch at Microsoft's malware attempts is to go out of business. We finally have the option of moving to Windows 10, but I'm still not convinced it's possible to turn off enough telemetrics to be PCI compliant. It's entirely possible that we cannot continue to use Microsoft products without committing fraud against our merchant service. That not only has Microsoft resorted to being a criminal enterprise, they're going to force their customers to do so as well.
Thanks. Microsoft.
Re:Security (Score:4, Insightful)
Ha! I call "FUD!" on that. Everyone ASSUMES the devil they don't know is better than the vulnerabilities that have been teased out over time (sometimes a long time) on a previous software. It can never be proven as true since time is forward.
It's been my experience that people are way more vulnerable in other ways, and most of these OS updates are dubious at best when it comes to being more secure.
An embedded firmware guy
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But what's worse? Ransomeware trojan from visiting an unsecure site, or ransomeware Windows 10?
Re:Security (Score:5, Insightful)
If you don't move to Windows 10 then you deserve all the security problems you will inevitably have. GUI and "principle" issues aside - it is a smart move.
Most people should be forced to switch. If you are too dumb to prevent the switch then you are in the camp of people who should be forced to switch. The tears mean its working.
Windows 10 fits more criteria for "malware" than the most well-known malware suites do. Forcefully installs itself? Check. Spies on you? Check. Displays ads to you? Check. Uninstalls competitors' programs? Check. Doles out your security keys to people on your contact list? Check.
It's one step away from literally being ransomware.
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If you don't move to Windows 10 then you deserve all the security problems you will inevitably have. GUI and "principle" issues aside - it is a smart move.
Most people should be forced to switch. If you are too dumb to prevent the switch then you are in the camp of people who should be forced to switch. The tears mean its working.
Windows 10 fits more criteria for "malware" than the most well-known malware suites do. Forcefully installs itself? Check. Spies on you? Check. Displays ads to you? Check. Uninstalls competitors' programs? Check. Doles out your security keys to people on your contact list? Check.
It's one step away from literally being ransomware.
Bitlocker will be enabled by default. If you don't keep subscribing to Windows 10 your bitlocker keys are deleted.
Thats 2 steps but totally doable.
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What do you mean "one step away from literally being ransomware?"
Anyone who's tried to restore their former system and had it partially fail or trash their OS install completely is going to have to pay one way or another.
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At least not yet.
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Define "consent" in the no-means-yes world of Windows 10
3. Profit!! (Score:5, Funny)
I see someone has sneaked a peak at next years' business plan.
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Re:Security (Score:5, Insightful)
It's one step away from literally being ransomware.
That comes in July, when it stops being free, but doesn't stop being an automatic install.
"You're copy of windows is unlicensed. Pay us $100+ or you will never see your own data again."
I wish I thought this was an exaggeration, but frankly, I expect exactly that.
Microsoft should be prosecuted for racketeering for how they've handled Windows 10.
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Microsoft should be prosecuted for racketeering for how they've handled Windows 10.
i disagree! they should be commended for their efforts to spread Linux! ;)
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If you do, on an older machine, you may well get driver issues and software incompatibilities. I have a number of laptops from circa 2010-2012, and Windows 10 is basically unusable on them. I am gradually purchasing SSDs and reinstalling Windows 7 on them (may as well do the SSD upgrade while I'm at it). I have a friend who's laptop failed to do the update properly and was left in an unbootable state, at which point he was talking about taking it to a repair man to get the data off and buying a new laptop.
I agree with you 100%.... (Score:2)
Whoops sorry, I misread your comment... but you were close. FTFY
If you move to Windows 10 then you deserve all the security problems you will inevitably have. GUI and "principle" issues aside - it is not a smart move.
Re:Windows 10 (Score:5, Interesting)
Even Windows fanboi Thurrott is fed up ...
https://www.thurrott.com/windo... [thurrott.com]
Re:Windows 10 (Score:5, Insightful)
It's people like him that have caused this. Their uncritical fandom of Microsoft has encouraged Microsoft to abuse its customers ever more, resulting in the (almost) forced upgrades (downgrades?) to Windows 10.
Paul: don't start complaining now. You should have been complaining over the last 10 years.
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I agree, the whole Windows obsessed IT magazine market have never said anything even remotely bad about Windows or Microsoft except for the occasional nit place far down in the column (after the 99 reasons to upgrade now). They barely acknowledge the existence of competitors, and have served as apologists for Microsoft constantly (after all you have to upgrade someday or you'll go to jail, so they're helping you!). Of course, they'll all paid from Redmond.
It's like the 70s again, where "no one got fired f
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I have 8.1. There are some dumb bits. But if you ignore Metro and the app store and lack of start menu, it's not bad on the desktop. I prefer it to Windows 7 in several ways, and it doesn't have all the telemetry, requirements to have Cortana & Edge, forced updates, and other W10 idiocies. Microsoft apologized, a rare event, for Windows 8 in regards to the UI and removal of start button which are basically cosmetic goofs, improves in 8.1, but then turns around and doubles down on stupid ideas in W10
Re:Blue screen of death (Score:5, Informative)
My wife accidentally clicked it on her admittedly elderly machine, now it won't boot up, no way to roll it back, all her files are gone.
This is different than malware... how is that?
Make a live USB/CD with Linux and retrieve the files that way.
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I don't suppose her computer has an Asus motherboard?
There was a recent Windows 7 update that disables secure boot. Asus motherboards have secure boot enabled by default.
This results in a non-bootable computer and could seem like data loss.
Might be something to check into anyway.
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