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Microsoft Windows Operating Systems

EFF Petitioned To Investigate Windows 10 Upgrades (change.org) 312

An anonymous reader writes: One of the most frustrating things about the ongoing stream of stories about Windows 10 upgrades is that there seems to be no way to hold Microsoft to account. Or perhaps there is: a petition asking the Electronic Frontier Foundation to investigate has now been posted on Change.org.
The petition argues "people are being tricked or forced into upgrading to Windows 10 from their current, preferred version of Windows," and describes Microsoft's actions as "ignorantly unethical at best and malicious at worst."
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EFF Petitioned To Investigate Windows 10 Upgrades

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  • by NotInHere ( 3654617 ) on Sunday June 05, 2016 @12:35PM (#52254043)

    they make people hate windows. This is the first step in installing GNU + systemd.

  • by flacco ( 324089 ) on Sunday June 05, 2016 @12:38PM (#52254069)

    - Back up your data files
    - Wipe that abusive shit operating system off your machine
    - Install Linux.

    Don't look back.

    • There are a *lot* of people who would lose important software in that move. Be mindful of that if you're going to be opportunistic.

      • by DaHat ( 247651 )

        Surely systemd will soon have that missing functionality, then all will be well again.

        • Surely systemd will soon have that missing functionality, then all will be well again.

          blah, blah, blah. If you hate systemd, then who the hell is forcing you to use it on Linux? There are distros without it. More fun to be a troll though, eh?

          Do you even Linux?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by houstonbofh ( 602064 )

      - Back up your data files - Wipe that abusive shit operating system off your machine - Install Linux.

      Don't look back.

      I have had more clients ask about Linux in the past 3 months then in the past three years prior. With everything moving to the cloud, it is actually happening.

    • by krelvin ( 771644 )

      - Back up your data files
      - Wipe that abusive shit operating system off your machine
      - Install Linux.

      Don't look back.

      Fantasy land...

      You now can then stare at the computer and realize that none of the applications and tools use you are on your now almost completely useless workstation....

      Your solution is simplistic and really not very realistic for most people even those with good technical knowlege.

      A workstation is more than the OS that is loaded on it. Just replace Windows with Linux and you have a box that pretty much doesn't do anything, Just like if you loaded Windows on a new workstation.

      It is the applications that

      • I'd be that you can do more on a Linux box with a fresh install of the latest versions of Ubuntu, Mint, or Fedora than you can on a Windows box with a fresh install of Windows.

      • by sjames ( 1099 )

        On the other hand, A lot of people don't use anything that isn't replaced with something already available as part of the distro. They would be well advised to switch.

    • I did that in '06. Best damned computational move I've ever made. I'm not lookin' back Boss,,, Actually, without corporate and government gravy, M$ would be populating the bread lines. M$: You forget who you really work for. The people that you call "CONSUMERS" are the true engine of corporate growth. YOU SERVE THE BWANKERS!!!
  • by JustNiz ( 692889 ) on Sunday June 05, 2016 @12:46PM (#52254099)

    It boggles my mind how people rightly complain about this and all the other abuses by Microsoft, then go right out and buy another PC with Windows.Self-inflicted much?

    Jeez people just vote with your wallet already.

    • The do not sell Linux PCs at Best Buy and Sam's club. That makes it beyond a lot of people.
    • It boggles my mind how people rightly complain about this and all the other abuses by Microsoft, then go right out and buy another PC with Windows.Self-inflicted much?

      Jeez people just vote with your wallet already.

      People DID vote with their wallet. That's why they're running a (cheap) Windows PC.

      Wake up.

      • by JustNiz ( 692889 )

        YOU wake up.
        Windows costs money.
        Linux is free.

        • YOU wake up. Windows costs money. Linux is free.

          Oh, so cost is what is really holding the Year of the Linux Desktop?

          Yes, that must be it, because this is the first year Linux has been free, right?

          Give me a break. Unfortunately, now Microsoft is going to try and compete with that price tag, and even with all of the complaining about telemetry, I'm willing to bet the masses STILL won't convert to Linux.

          And my original comment was targeted towards the actual competition out there, which is the (considerably more expensive) OSX option.

          • by JustNiz ( 692889 )

            I'm not even sure I know what this mythical "Year of the Linux Desktop" is even meant to be so I'm probably not the best person to ask about it. I can only speak from my own actual experience that I've been using Linux as my desktop just fine for years now, and I have found I am far more productive with Linux as a desktop than Windows.YMMV I guess.

            Sorry but I can't respond to the rest of your rant because its not clear to me what point you are even trying to make.

            • Yup - but for those of us who *have* made the total switch, is dependent on what we use our desktops for.

    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      While true, this *does* fall squarely within the purpose of the EFF. But perhaps the people asking for this should join, so they can ask as members rather than just as outraged victims.

      The thing is, while this is clearly within the area that the EFF was formed to address, almost none of their membership is strongly affected. And they don't have enough clout to address every abuse, so it's reasonable that they should pay most attention to those issues that most directly affect their members. And this is a

    • It boggles my mind how people rightly complain about this and all the other abuses by Microsoft, then go right out and buy another PC with Windows.Self-inflicted much?

      Jeez people just vote with your wallet already.

      I also complain every day about being stuck in traffic and about the cost of petrol. But there's few other ways to get to work so I take my complaining arse to the petrol station, part with another 80EUR and then potter along the highway at 20km/h.

      Not because I like the self inflicted pain, but because it's one of the few choices available.

    • Gee, it's almost as if their frustration is from not having adequate alternatives.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 05, 2016 @12:54PM (#52254135)

    The petition asks for the EFF to "investigate Microsoft". What investigatory powers does the EFF have? They can't just show up in Redmond and go "hey assholes, open up" - so did the petition's author mean the FTC instead or something?

    • by ClickOnThis ( 137803 ) on Sunday June 05, 2016 @01:12PM (#52254231) Journal

      The EFF does not have investigative powers, but it does have investigative talent, and a recognized history of advocacy for consumers.

    • I think it's just an odd choice of phraseology on behalf of the petition creator. EFF has filed a number of lawsuits against companies that do harm to consumers, so that's probably the goal here. Count me in.

    • by kheldan ( 1460303 ) on Sunday June 05, 2016 @01:23PM (#52254297) Journal
      It won't be the first time that Microsoft has misbehaved on a scale that required some sort of large legal action. An organization like the EFF has enough credibility that if they 'investigate' the situation, find serious problems, and start talking to the right people, they'll be heard and something on an official level will be started. Random tech geeks complaining on an internet discussion forum aren't going to get anything done on their own, especially when 99% of the computer-using public don't even understand the problem when you try to explain it to them, they think they're just getting something that costs hundreds of dollars for free, and since the malware aspects of Windows 10 is silent, they don't even know how they're being taken advantage of with hardware they bought and paid for with their own money.
    • This is the Internet equivalent of asking your big brother to fight your fights for you. The EFF has no authority, no power, and no ability to compel Microsoft to do anything, other than possibly laying the groundwork for someone else to initiate a class action lawsuit regarding this behavior.

    • They can't just show up in Redmond and go "hey assholes, open up"

      Well, that strategy did seem to work with Goatse.

      Not that the Internet needs any more of that.

    • by im_thatoneguy ( 819432 ) on Sunday June 05, 2016 @09:11PM (#52256375)

      What exactly would they even charge them with.

      "Hey assholes, stop updating and maintaining your flagship product!"

      This would set a really really bad precedent if they somehow did find Microsoft Legally guilty of something. What would that something be? Illegally updating code without consent? Downloading a bit without explicit consent?

      Issue a security patch, have it install automatically: lawsuit.
      Replace certificate in keychain: lawsuit.
      Cache website before it's clicked on: lawsuit.
      Download email automatically using default settings: lawsuit.

      It's also incredibly ironic that Google is criticized for failing to keep the OS up to date on most devices causing fragmentation and Microsoft is criticized for failing to allow their OS to become fragmented. I'm sure most people with an Android device wished they had the problem "Google keeps ensuring every device gets the latest version of Android."

    • by swb ( 14022 )

      They don't have any official investigatory powers, but what they do have is a level of organizational competency and probably some level of lobbying influence (like, they can actually get a meeting with a congressional aide who isn't a summer intern).

      They also might have the time and staff to setup some kind of coherent and competent testing to build an understanding of the when and hows of Windows 10 auto upgrading.

      Right now my sense is we have a chorus of people complaining about a lot of contradictory be

  • Wrong priorities (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MobileTatsu-NJG ( 946591 ) on Sunday June 05, 2016 @01:02PM (#52254163)

    Yes, Microsoft is being too aggressive, however I feel this is less important than finding out what is being sent via the telemetry service. I will not use Windows 10 because many of the projects I work on are under NDA. How do I know Windows isn't sending out info to the mothership that, in essence, violates that NDA? What if Windows is sending a list of all the folders on my hard-drive? An employee of theirs might see that and go "Hey, this guy is working on the Nintendo NX*! I'm going to post this to the rumors sites!" That's the sort of thing that could get me, my colleagues, and the companies I work for in trouble.

    * I am not working on anything Nintendo related, I just plucked that example out of the air.

    • by mlts ( 1038732 )

      There is also the fact that we don't know how well the data is secured. Unlike a cloud provider, if Cortana or a search process sends data to the mother ship about something sensitive, MS may not use it, but there is always the concern that they get compromised and someone now has that info about the new NX, with the exact SoC chip masks and other confidential items.

      There is also the fact that MS may be coerced to forking that info over. For example, if something got uploaded to MS in the US, and Elbonia

  • The EFF has zero enforcement powers. And petitions are useless. Real change happens in the courts, or by you changing your own behavior so as to not buy their products. Petitions are for slackers.
    • Real change happens in the courts,

      That's cute, especially given Microsoft's history in the courts, especially on the losing side.

      • After successfully updating Adobe Reader on a customer's laptop, Windows 10 politely informed me that the "default PDF handler was corrupted". It was not. Windows 10 then automatically set the default PDF reader to Edge. Real change happens in the courts, then a few years later is forgotten.
    • The EFF has lawyers and act in a fashion similar to the ACLU. They have the legal expertise to sue or present proper legal arguments to the DOJ for the DOJ to investigate with public pressure and oversight to insure a more fair investigation.
      • 100,000 small claims court claims would be quicker, use up more of Microsoft's resources, and get money into the hands of the victims instead of the lawyers and the victims getting a $5 voucher.
    • by sjames ( 1099 )

      The EFF has lawyers for a reason.

  • to see either a class action lawsuit, or investigations into Microsoft committing unauthorized computer access / installing software for the purposes of spying on people.
  • It happened last night. Right at the start of my son's LAN party. One kid was on my personal desktop, just got in Overwatch & they called me downstairs. "Preparing to install Windows 10. Do not turn off your computer". Fuck that, one kid without a computer for the evening was unacceptable. I immediately hit the reset button. Luckily it booted right into Windows 7 where, for better or worse, I downloaded & ran Never10.

    Linux is not an option for me. The software I run for work no longer has a version for Linux. I am stuck with MS for now & likely will be installing Win10 in the next few weeks anyhow.

    • by cfalcon ( 779563 )

      > Linux is not an option for me. The software I run for work no longer has a version for Linux.

      This is the kind of lock-in that is just so hard to fight. Most of the visible fight is on the side of games, because gamers are ultimately trendsetters in hardware and software, and are numerous, but all the myriad productivity business applications that are coded to only run on Windows is this death-grip on the software industry. If you absolutely had to, you might be able to VM it, or find a way to run it

      • Yep, I got a disabled brother who's been "Microsoft free since 1998" who's keeps telling "use WINE!" but i t really is not practical & makes no sense as I would still be using Windows. VM is the same, what's the difference? I really don't see it changing anytime soon.
  • Microsoft must be truly desperate to risk this much bad publicity and user alienation. I guess they got p0wned on mobile and MacBooks/Chromebooks, coupled with various cloud software, cast the need of anyone to own a Windows PC into doubt.

    So they must have decided that they HAVE to defragment their install base and edge into mobile through tablets - or die. If you are a committed Windows user, you should probably hope that they succeed. Otherwise you will be left, at best, with poorly maintained platform ru

    • While I agree that MS must be getting desperate I have to disagree about the "user alienation".

      Most users are already OWNED outright by MS, they don't know about the alternatives, or don't care enough to switch because they only play solitaire, or don't want to switch at home because they have to use it at work, and it would just be too hard to learn how to use a different OS, whaaaa!!!!!!

      Lets face it; other than users who read /. and the other tech forums most people don't have a clue. They just use what

  • by ledow ( 319597 )

    Vote with feet.

    Problem solved.

  • ... people are being tricked or forced into upgrading to Windows 10 ...

    Judges recently ruled [slashdot.org] raped women can sue an enabling web site. Can we get this extended to cover what Microsoft is doing to our PCs? In this case they're both the aggressor *and* enabling web site.

    No means No Microsoft.

  • Seems like the same idea. Most users hate it, but it is being maliciously forced on users for the sake of the vendors.

    • by HiThere ( 15173 )

      No. Many users hate systemd, but most users don't even notice it.

      That said, it is the same kind of change in a much more restrained way.

  • Still on Win7 Pro here. No forced updates, doesn't ask, wasn't invited for the free "upgrade".

    Does Windows 10 Pro have more settings to control things?
    • Probably you simply lack the free disk space required on your system drive. Its silently waiting for the moment that you have 1 byte more than the threshold.
  • "the upgrade window is part of the operating system"

  • http://www.advocatedaily.com/aaron-edgar-microsoft-risks-running-afoul-of-anti-spam-legislation.html

    To summarize, the company needs informed consent. A customer's saying "no" is a binding denial of consent.

  • Here is what you can do for now. Run Win7. It is a perfectly fine OS. Yes MS has packported the spyware, aka "telemetry", to the system and how do you fix that? You manually monitor your system(s) for what updates are on them. Use this script: wmic qfe get >C:\updates.txt

    Run that batch file as admin and then search for KB3035583 (the Win10 installer) and KB3021917 (spyware) and if they are there remove them.

    Is this annoying and bad? Yes. Is it doable on a large scale where you have to admin hundr

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