Microsoft Has Broken Millions Of Webcams With Windows 10 Anniversary Update (thurrott.com) 220
The Anniversary Update which Microsoft rolled out to Windows 10 users earlier this month has broken millions of webcams, the company said on Friday. The problem is that after installing the update, the company added, Windows no longer allows USB webcams to use MJPEG or H264 encoding processes, and only supports YUY2 encoding. Microsoft says it introduced the changes to prevent an issue that was resulting in duplication of encoding the stream (poor performance). If you're facing the issue, there's a workaround (via Thurrott.com): Rafael has figured out a workaround that should hopefully stop the freezing issue; if you are comfortable tweaking the registry, make this change. HKLM\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\Microsoft\Windows Media Foundation\Platform, add DWORD "EnableFrameServerMode" and set to 0
It's the OS that just keeps on giving (Score:5, Funny)
Headaches.
Re:It's the OS that just keeps on giving (Score:5, Interesting)
My wife's new notebook lost Miracast capability with the 8/12/16 Windows Security update. Miracast worked fine out of the box for several months, suddenly stopped for no apparent reason, checked update logs, 8/12/16 was the latest, unapplied it, Miracast is back. Windows 10 Home - no (easy) options to suppress automatic updates. Hurray for progress. They killed the Atom based Netbook / Nettop generation of PCs with updates to XP, too.
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My atom based netbook wouldn't even run XP tolerably well.
They're not super speedy, but they were competitive with decent systems from a year or two before they came out - when outfitted with XP SP2... as SP2 got "security patches" over the years, they devolved into useless delay machines. If you re-install XP from the discs that came with the (disc-player-less) systems, they'll be restored to their 2006 performance levels.
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Don't forget that the original release of XP would run pretty well on a Pentium III with 256MB of ram, which was a pretty typical computer when XP came out. It really amazes me how much of a dog XP became later in life, where you really needed a dual core with 2GB before it would run acceptably.
Re:It's the OS that just keeps on giving (Score:4, Interesting)
Windows 10 Home - no (easy) options to suppress automatic updates.
I haven't seen an update since I disabled the "Windows Update" service and set its "Action on failure" property to "No action". (note: not sure of the exact wording regarding action on failure, but you'll see it if you go to Computer Management, select Services, scroll down to Windows Update, right-click and select Properties; I believe it's in the right-most tab.)
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. Windows 10 Home - no (easy) options to suppress automatic updates. Hrray for progress. They killed the Atom based Netbook / Nettop generation of PCs with updates to XP, too.
MS have a tool for that bud you can download from the ms linky.. just run it to show/hide updates
Microsoft windows update show hide utility [microsoft.com]
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That was their standard embrace, extend, extinguish strategy. The first netbooks came with Linux running a GUI which let you browse the web, access your email, play movies, and play music. They sold better than expected so presented a possible threat to Windows' quasi-monopoly of the PC platform. So Microsoft created a cut-down version of Windows (7 Starter edition) which would run on netbooks. That got people to stop
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The other way that Microsoft helped kill off the netbook was to make Windows 7 Starter very cheap, but in order to qualify the Netbook must not exceed certain specifications (otherwise, it was then considered a laptop by Microsoft and would require a more expensive Windows 7 Home license). That's why the Netbooks all had very similar specifications no matter who made them, and also why it seemed like they were stuck in a time warp where the hardware didn't seem to change at all for several years.
Of course,
Re:It's the OS that just keeps on giving (Score:5, Interesting)
They fixed a performance issue by taking away a feature that millions of people use.
If I did that at my job, I'd probably be fired.
Re:It's the OS that just keeps on giving (Score:5, Insightful)
Just recompile the kernel (Score:2)
Microsoft is getting like Gentoo
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I think Obi-Wan even spoke of this: "I felt a great disturbance in the [Windows], as if millions of [webcams] suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
Obviously, he was speaking allegorically when he said those words, with the Force representing Windows and voices representing webcams. It makes sense if you think of it, with Gates and Balmer representing Palpatine and Vader having power over the dark side of the force (the new guy is Kylo-Re
Re:It's the OS that just keeps on giving (Score:5, Funny)
Linux: Free as in speech.
BSD: Free as in beer.
Windows 10: Free as in herpes.
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Headaches.
So far I have personally had two updates that killed audio drivers, two computers that had their ethernet drivers killed by updates - strangely enough three identical computers did not get killed by the same update. I've supported dozens of computers that had audio knocked out by updates.
side note: the trick to getting the damn things back on line was bizzare to say the least, but I'll repeat it here in case it happens to someone else. First I took a USB-Ethernet adapter to try to get ethernet connectivi
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Linux is safer from spyware because it's a lottery whether it supports your wifi card or not. OS X is good but you can't buy a $500 Macbook
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Linux is fine if you buy it the same way that an Windows user buys their machine.
Re: It's the OS that just keeps on giving (Score:3)
BDSM is obviously more fun than W10, isn't it?
One would hope anyway.
--
BMO
I don't think it's just webcams (Score:2, Interesting)
Thursday I did an emergency install of Ubuntu MATE 16.04 LTS on an old DELL laptop because Windows 10 suddenly couldn't manage to light up the built-in screen anymore.
Title should read: (Score:5, Funny)
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Wait... at the same time as they refuse to remove b0rked PowerShell Aliases for 'Wget' and 'Curl' that mess up people who want to use those utilities, because that would be a "Breaking Change" ?
Thank you for standing up to EVIL PATENTS MS! (Score:3, Funny)
H.264? There are evil patents associated with that right?
This just sounds like Microsoft is trying to act like a positive in the freedom dimension Linux distro by refusing to support that evil patenty thing and by refusing to support webcams, which we all know could be used as NSA backdoors and are therefore evil.
Thanks, developers! So agile! Much evergreen! (Score:5, Insightful)
I mean, I get it. I get that you don't want to support more than one platform or configuration at any given moment in time. It's not fun having to regression test against a billion third-party devices, and it's not cool to QA things that work fine on your machine - and in a DevOps world, you don't have to - but please, find someone in your office with a little grey in his beard, and ask them, just once, about writing software with the user's needs in mind, not just your manager's desire to cut support costs.
It wasn't that long ago that software that worked, continued to work until the end user broke it by changing something. Now the users aren't breaking things -- but you are. Why?
Would it seriously be too much to ask if, in exchange for no longer being able to receive technical support (because technically, a working configuration that isn't "the newest version" is unsupported in this brave new world Nadella's created for us), users be permitted to not change already-working configurations?
Re:Thanks, developers! So agile! Much evergreen! (Score:5, Insightful)
The USB Video Class Spec and Microsoft's own driver for it [microsoft.com] defines support for both uncompressed and compressed video output; and for programs to negotiate with a UVC device to change video parameters.
The extra abstraction layer they added between the driver and the applications only supports one uncompressed format; and breaks if you try to negotiate for something different. That's not a weirdo edge case with somebody's ghastly rev. A product that never should have made it out the door; that's "break a substantial portion of a spec we used to support and hope everything turns out for the best". Not good.
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Microsoft's own UVC driver doesn't work. All of my cameras ONLY work under 32-bit Windows.
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No, seriously, thanks, developers. For always being "evergreen," for deciding that end users should no longer have the right to accept or refuse individual "upgrades," and for always being agile.
developers aren't the one's that decide shit like this, this has "management" written all over it.
Re:Thanks, developers! So agile! Much evergreen! (Score:4, Insightful)
Hogwash. Here's how things went down.
Mgmt: There's an issue with duplication of encoding when using USB web cams. It needs to be fixed.
Developer: Sure, not a problem. Let me look at the issue.
10 minutes
Developer: Problem solved!
Mgmt: That was fast! How did you do it?
Developer: I removed access to the parts causing the problem.
Mgmt: Brilliant!
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Not having customers is always the most convenient option. The snag is that it's the most expensive option also.
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Now the users aren't breaking things -- but you are. Why?
This kind of answers itself. The less the customer is able to configure themselves, the less they will be able to cock up their configurations.
And its a lot easier to tell a user "this feature is no longer supported" than it is to try and figure out why having a joystick plugged in starts gives them error 0x37728cf3 in Word, but only when they try to insert a jpg image that's between 283 and 424 pixels wide, which of course doesn't occur on the support staff's own PC even with the exact same model of joyst
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Would it seriously be too much to ask ... a working configuration that isn't "the newest version"..., users be permitted to not change already-working configurations?
I just switched to the Long-Term Servicing Branch (LTSB) version of Windows 10 and so far I like it. No App Store, no Cortana, no force-installed new features.
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I just switched to the Long-Term Servicing Branch (LTSB) version of Windows 10 and so far I like it. No App Store, no Cortana, no force-installed new features.
Not fair. That's an Enterprise thing [wikipedia.org]. Regular folks don't have that option.
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Huh?
35 Years of Rank Incompetence, And Counting... (Score:5, Interesting)
I see. Because squirting 720p or 1080p video as uncompressed YUYV over a USB2 link never results in performance problems...
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Real reason is that they want to reduce people from development and QA teams by removing features. Less people, better business performance and more bonuses to MBA team. Of course in long term there are less customers, but at that time the management team has already collected their bonuses and changed company to ruin.
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Fewer people.
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Good plan, I like it. Let's hope they go with that ;)
Now Only NSA Can Use Your Webcam (Score:4, Funny)
Fun for everyone!!! Well, except you.
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Fun for everyone!!! Well, except you.
Terrorists: "So don't discuss plans in front of open laptop with webcam. Thanks for the tip, Microsoft!"
My workaround (Score:2, Informative)
So I had plenty of issues after Anniversary edition update. Sound issues, choppy scrolling again in Chrome. Finicky touchpad with jitter and freeze. I finally decided it was time to try a Linux distro. Yes, I have had plenty of issues with Linux distro's in the past. But this time not a one, and besides that my scanner that didn't work in Windows 10 now works in Ubuntu. Sorry but I think having to endure more problems every six months or so on yet another Windows 10 roll out is just too much.
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It used to be that I would have to keep a Windows partition to use some hardware devices. Today, there is very, very little that doesn't run in Linux, mostly without the need to look for a manufacturer's driver as is the case on Windows. Of course, there are exceptions[1] and YMMV, but by and large I do better with Linux these days than with Windows, in terms of hardware compatibility and ease of use. And although updates may at times create backward incompatibility (not often), I have a choice about when a
NSA (Score:4, Funny)
The real reason, it was interfering with the NSA backdoor that watches you sleep.
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The real reason, it was interfering with the NSA backdoor that watches you sleep.
What was that sleep pattern called that marks your terrorism probability percent jump to 100? REM? Yeah, that's it!
I didn't just violate copyright, did I? Losing my Religion stuck in head now.. can't get.. it..out..
Roll it back (Score:2)
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I rolled it back for multiple reasons. The webcam was completely unrelated. NordVPN client wouldn't connect, and HFS partition disappeared. I liked half of the new features, but the other half were broken things. I can't work with an update like that when I'm not at home for half a year. Luckily it rolled back easily.
Rolling Back Rollups... I declare this trademarked at the time of posting this comment! /snark
Not to remove a performance issue. (Score:5, Interesting)
There was no performance issue - the problem was that multiple applications could not access the camera at once, and it was important to fix this.
Quoting:
" It was important for us to enable concurrent camera access, so Windows Hello, Microsoft Hololens and other products and features could reliably assume that the camera would be available at any given time, regardless of what other applications may be accessing it. "
https://social.msdn.microsoft.... [microsoft.com]
Which is of great comfort to the owners of medical imagers that are now junk unless someone catches and rolls back the anniversary edition. There is claimed to be a fix in the pipe.
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Which is of great comfort to the owners of medical imagers that are now junk unless someone catches and rolls back the anniversary edition. There is claimed to be a fix in the pipe.
If you're running a medical imager and you're auto-installing patches willy-nilly without thoroughly testing them, then you're doing it wrong. I don't care what OS you're running, that's just negligent.
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I am not sure this feature "enforcing non-exclusive access to the camera" even makes ANY sense in any use case you can think of.
Although it sounds like a great way to spy on people by misusing the camera hardware on the sly when the user thinks it's being used for something else.
Still not sure why such access would require the sort of sabotage that Microsoft has imposed upon it's users.
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And that is exactly the point. Windows 10 has been designed from the ground up as a surveillance platform
As far as I'm concerned, its the first iteration of what George Orwell in 1984 referred to as a "telescreen".. I gave up using MS products when I retired in 2010, and I refer to Windows 10 now as "Windows NSA Edition", or more simply, a CTD (Computer-Transmitted Disease).. I pity the millions who still use it...
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The reality is that most medical IT "experts" are clueless. I mean, why would they be running Windows in the first place?
Of course they just auto-update everything... much easier than thinking and testing.
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If I had mod points right now, you'd be getting one.
Re: Not to remove a performance issue. (Score:2)
I am with the professional edition.
I have deferred updates on and windows 8 style warnings and times for updates. I do not have this problem.
The user with the medical equipment on a home edition is an idiot and is breaking the law as you need to pay for FDA certification. He should still be using XP service pack 2 or something for the scanners
Let the office machines run on a modern OS
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Yes, exactly this.
It's kind of crazy for equipment like this to run Windows in the first place, as I've dealt with stuff like this and it's pretty clear that Microsoft doesn't care one bit about niche use cases like this. Probably the best solution would be not allow the PC on the network at all so it can't patch itself, though I'm not convinced that Windows 10 won't complain after a while if it's can't call home.
Fun fact: Many of those equipment manufacturers are technically in violation of Microsoft's l
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" the problem was that multiple applications could not access the camera at once"
So, they want to implement a shitty version of ManyCam, SplitCamera, or X-Split?
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Other products and features
In other words, they wanted to make sure they could spy on you any time they wanted.
Screw them. Linux / xfce FTW
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Which is of great comfort to the owners of medical imagers
If medical imagers were producing compressed video instead of displaying an uncompressed stream then they deserve their rightful place in the bin.
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Medical imagers vary. Some rely on interpretation of fine details in images, and that one pixel matters. ...
In this case, compressed images are a terrible idea.
In other cases, you are taking high frame-rate video, and analysing gait, or how a ball is hit, or
For this case, compressed video is just fine, but dropping from compressed to uncompressed, and getting 1/6th the frame-rate is utterly useless.
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There are various classes of imagers. One used in sports medicine was referenced in the thread as having issues. it relies on high frames per second video in order to get images of motion to analyse.
What is that? (Score:2)
What is that you have there? ... yes.
It's my computer with windows 10 installed.
So a expensive space heater?
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What is that you have there? ... yes.
It's my computer with windows 10 installed.
So a expensive space heater?
Inefficient! At least have it doing some distributed processing or something to make it heat a square foot. /snark
Rollups and... (Score:2)
...so this is now how the individual Windows updates come out now? Public bulletins with users mentioning fast fixes... hmm.. there's another OS that did that in the past and MS said that it was a horrid OS with no concern for security or usability... Lin... Line.... L-something.
Psh.
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You're thinking of Linux... After seeing all of the broken updates, privacy issues, force-feeding Windows 10, whether you wanted it or not, I couldn't be happier I broke the "MS habit" back when I retired in 2010... Geez, I feel sorry for those who *MUST* use Windows, for whatever reason.... Soooo glad its not *me*.....
My Win10 horror story (Score:5, Funny)
Older versions of Windows have a "Favorites" sub-menu on the left side of File Explorer. When I had to convert to Windows 10 at work, the "Favorites" links were automatically migrated into something called the "Quick Access" (QA) menu. So far so good: it converted old stuff into its new convention.
However, "Favorites" used alias names, similar to naming a Windows Shortcut. But QA doesn't (at least not by default). Instead, QA uses the last actual folder name in the path as the displayed title.
I thought QA simply rudely renamed my Favorites titles, so I right-clicked on them to "fix" the titles. Turns out I wasn't looking at an alias, but the live folder name.
The result is I inadvertently renamed network folders used by hundreds of employees! Of course trouble-tickets started popping up like pop-corn. I put two and two together, and quickly renamed them back, and then went for a walk to dry off the sweat.
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Thanks for the saturday morning laugh.
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Not that tragic (Score:2)
Hacker pervs and NSA hardest hit!
Use case starvation (Score:4, Insightful)
The basic problem was that the developers at Microsoft don't understand who uses their OS and why. They had 5 use cases when they were developing their new feature, but forgot about the 50,000 use cases that already exist, unknown to the development staff.
"We changed an API's behavior because of this new feature that nobody cares about, which broke almost every imaging device attached to the OS" reeks of poor engineering management.
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As someone else pointed out it wasn't the use case it broke. It was an entire spec.
Features are irrelevant if you can't maintain backwards compatibility with a spec that currently in use by the devices you're targeting.
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It's the systemd model. The exchange between Linux and Windows goes both ways now! Progress!!
Telemetry? (Score:3)
You'd think that Microsoft would be able to query it's installed base via whatever Win10 was collecting and figure out how people were using a feature. Either they can't, or nobody thought of it.
Seriously.... (Score:2)
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Another reason (Score:3)
And this is why cumulative, mandatory, updates are a BAD THING.
It's like they're not even trying now to hide it anymore. They have pretty much openly declared themselves to be hostile to users with a lot of forced updates that benefit not the user but themselves. But MS fanboys will still lap it up and somehow say it's a good thing.
Sounds like a feature to me! (Score:2)
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This is a security update to prevent government spying on citizens.
Rather the opposite, I would think? The "update" allows multiple programs to access the webcam simultaneously, so if NSA accesses your webcam, you won't notice even if you call up Skype, and if you turn off Skype, NSAs app can continue to monitor you.
Gaffer tape to the rescue.
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...Gaffer tape to the rescue.
Rollup package just came out that detects darkness on webcam and triggers mic monitoring.
NSA: "See? See? We'll show you tech idiots how it's done!" /snort
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This was a compatibility update that makes it easier for the NSA to spy through people's webcams.
No it wasn't! It wasn't wasn't! Psh if you'd only read the rollup description you would see that it was a "performance enhancement". Ghawd! :>
Re:Microsoft broke my scanner once... (Score:5, Funny)
Install Linux, no drivers needed to be installed
Because the USB device didn't even get recognized at all? ;)
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Scanners have been one of the biggest rip offs in the Windows update game. I had a very good flatbed scanner I had inherited that worked as late as Windows 2000, but when I upgraded to XP, for some reason I couldn't get the drivers to work properly. I managed to get it working properly once, and when I rebooted, it wouldn't see the scanner any more. I came to the conclusion that the drivers themselves must be checking out the windows version, since the driver models between 2k and XP are all but identical.
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I have to thank Microsoft for my scanner. Without them I probably wouldn't even have one.
My parents had a very nice, high end scanner that they used for years until Windows stopped working with the driver, and the manufacturer stopped making drivers for new windows versions. Luckily it works great on my Linux box though with no driver's or setup required (after I installed the old SCSI card it came with... That worked straight out of the box too)
Scanner is now about 20 years old and works better than many m
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Because the USB device didn't even get recognized at all? ;)
So you jest but compliant USB Video Class devices (read: webcams) have been supported since 2008. It's actually a standard much like you plug in any USB keyboard, mouse, pendrive etc. and it usually works. It's quite amazing that Microsoft managed to break such a widely adopted standard. I'm guess they're just setting the standard for what "supported lifetime" you'll have before Windows 10 refuses to run.
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You say that, but on Windows even pen drives are a pain with pop-ups that say it's installing drivers, even if the same pen drive has been in the computer before on a different USB port. Drivers? For a pen drive? Really?
One of the reasons I prefer Linux. Everything "just works".
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I don't suppose you've actually ever used one of these devices. It would not surprise me. Lemming trolls whine about Linux users being so cheap and backwards when that really describes themselves.
A great number of webcams simply conform to the USB spec.
No "special driver" required.
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Of course you don't know if it will actually work with Windows....
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Back when I still used windows, pre-2010, I had a scanner (Canon Flatbed LiDE 20) that had worked perfectly under XP, but when I upgraded to 7 and went to 64 bit, no joy with the scanner.. However, since I had an Ubuntu Virtualbox VM on Windows, I'd fire up the VM, connect the scanner to the VM via the Virtualbox device pulldown and voila!! do my scanning in Linux... Bottom Line: devices generally work better in Linux... I feel another "FUCK MICROSOFT" wave coming on.....
...and a Møøse bit my Sister once... (Score:2)
No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian møvies: "The Høt Hands of an Oslo Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Mølars of Horst Nordfink"...
We apologise for the fault in this comment. Those responsible have been sacked.
Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretti nasti...
We apologise again for the fault in this comment.
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And then he got sued by Parker Brothers.
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90s? Were you even alive in the 90s? A camera that old would probably have something like a parallel port or rs-232 port.
Which reminds me... did they ever stop putting those warnings for Windows on USB devices? "don't plug it in before you install the driver"
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1994 - the first commercial webcam - Logitech's QuickCam
1996 - USB makes its debut
Judging by your user ID I guess you were alive in the 1990s, you just apparently werent aware in the 1990s.
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He bought that account. A few years back a lot of the low UID account holders sold their accounts off. For some reason people bought them!
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Webcams were pretty niche until USB finally took off which was in 1998. I've got a few very old webcams. None of them work in Windows after XP, some didn't make it past 98/ME. Linux support is spotty. Several of them used propriety image compression techniques which were never fully reverse-engineered, so while Linux can see them, you can't really pull an image off of them, or if you can only a few low resolution modes work. The only one that really works in Linux as well as it did in Windows is an old
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Actually, Linux had better support for a number of webcams in the '90s. Practically any cam with a BT848 on the interface card worked great. In many cases, the same hardware on Windows was crashy or had a poor framerate due to crappy drivers.
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Re:Grandma don't do no registries (Score:5, Interesting)
Another reason why Windows is not ready for the desktop.
Grandma runs desktop Linux just fine.
This is rather insightful. I may be a Linux fan but there was a time when I would have readily admitted Grandma would have an easier time with Windows than with Linux (assuming someone competently preinstalled one or the other for her use). This surely started to change with the unusability of Windows 8 and now, with all the Windows 10 issues, I would not like to be on the receiving end of Grandma's support calls.
My wife (who is a grandma, by the way) uses a Linux distro that I installed and maintain for her (maintenance means installing updates once in a while). She neither knows nor cares that it's Linux and not Windows. It "just works" for her rather basic needs, and if she some day requires more advanced features, they're all available.
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This surely started to change with the unusability of Windows 8
You need to view that from a different lens. The main usability issue of Windows 8 was that it broke what we were used to, hid all of the configuration features that we like, and creating jarring discontinuities in multitasking workflows that we commonly use.
We being geeks found it a step backwards.
Grandma on the other hand likely had no issue what so ever. Windows 8 was really easy for someone to pick up and use. However it was a jarring screwup for the power user.
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Grandma on the other hand likely had no issue what so ever. Windows 8 was really easy for someone to pick up and use. However it was a jarring screwup for the power user.
My take: Windows 8 (esp. pre-8.1) was, arugably, a decent UI for a total blank slate user. It was a mildly annoying UI for a hard-core power user. It was, however, a complete and total disaster for the hundreds of secretaries and teachers I was dealing with at the time who were just barely computer savvy, but had at that point accumulated 15-20 years of hard-earned "Start Menu like this, click this/double-click that, files work this way" folk wisdom, and Win8 broke rather a lot of that.
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