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Android Google

Android Users Need To Delete Google Maps and Google Play If They Don't Want Their Locations Tracked (theregister.co.uk) 395

Kieren McCarthy, reporting for The Register: Google, it seems, is very, very interested in knowing where you are at all times. Users have reported battery life issues with the latest Android build, with many pointing the finger at Google Play -- Google's app store -- and its persistent, almost obsessive need to check where you are. Amid complaints that Google Play is always switching on GPS, it appears Google has made it impossible to prevent the app store from tracking your whereabouts unless you completely kill off location tracking for all applications. You can try to deny Google Play access to your handheld's location by opening the Settings app and digging through Apps -> Google Play Store -> Permissions, and flipping the switch for "location." But you'll be told you can't just shut out Google Play services: you have to switch off location services for all apps if you want to block the store from knowing your whereabouts. It's all or nothing, which isn't particularly nice. This is because Google Play services pass on your location to installed apps via an API. The store also sends your whereabouts to Google to process. Google doesn't want you to turn this off.
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Android Users Need To Delete Google Maps and Google Play If They Don't Want Their Locations Tracked

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  • by Mike Van Pelt ( 32582 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @02:33PM (#52880871)
    I love Big Brother. Don't you love Big Brother? Maybe you need re-education.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @02:39PM (#52880913)

      big brother was always the cool guy that got us porn, beer and cigs.... now little sister was the freaking rat! I now call all surveillance Little Sister.

    • by cant_get_a_good_nick ( 172131 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @02:41PM (#52880927)

      It's doubleplus don't be evil.

      Didn't Sergei grow up in the Moscow? He's built a panopticon that would make Stalin drool.

    • by rhazz ( 2853871 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @02:45PM (#52880953)
      After one of the more recent OS updates I noticed that my android phone would now tell me every morning just before I left for work how long my commute would be. Even though I've never identified my work address as "work", it has (probably easily) figured out where I work and tries to be helpful by doing a quick route lookup just before the usual time it detects that I leave the house. Honestly when I first noticed it I was a bit put off that they would go so far as to do that without any opt-in, but then I realized that it's kind of handy and frankly isn't really that concerning overall. If I actually had a need to suppress my whereabouts, just having a cell phone that is paid with a credit card pretty much defeats that.
      • but how to you feel if that info was passed to the FBI / CIA / NSA / ETC?

      • by Luthair ( 847766 )
        I think you can go to your Google account and turn off location services to avoid this
      • If I actually had a need to suppress my whereabouts, just having a cell phone that is paid with a credit card pretty much defeats that.

        "paid with a credit card"? It is to laugh.

        Try "purchased and recharged with cash, while wearing a ski mask and having walked to (then returning from) the convenience store from a car with its license plates covered and parked away from traffic cameras (if you can find such a place within walking distance of a convenience store)."

        And leave the phone off except when making a

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        If Apple did this, there would be a slashdot outcry. So it goes.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • by dbialac ( 320955 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @02:49PM (#52880991)

      I guess nobody noticed that maps.google.com now goes to www.google.com/maps, which means you have to give the entire site permission to access your location to let it use your location.

      • I find this absolutely reprehensible. I truly wonder why people put up with this. It's one thing to not care that google tracks you. I don't mind. But I'd be absolutely incensed if I had no way to prevent it and I'm locked into a 2 year contract with no way to have a usable phone and usable maps without granting google this prying eye. One of my kids has a phone which doesn't even allow google play to be turned off (the phone relies on it). Each week we notice data charges when he has used no data. Whe

        • by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @09:42PM (#52883337)

          with no way to have a usable phone and usable maps

          Oh? So you want to use a company's services and all they provide without giving back? There are plenty of usable maps out there. There are plenty of phones on the market which don't have Google Services (which 1bn Chinese people don't even have access to).

          You can't have it all ways.

        • with no way to have a usable phone and usable maps without granting google this prying eye

          Install OSMAnd~ from F-Droid. Send the authors a donation (that way they get all of it, Google doesn't get a cut as they would if you bought it from the Play store). It does offline maps and offline routing, and generally has much better map data than Google Maps (amusingly, this was even true last time I visited Google and walked around outside the office that contains the HQ of the Google Map steam). OpenStreetMap has my house labelled (no, I didn't add it), Google Maps doesn't even think that the road

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by GLowder ( 622780 )
      Ever been driving down the road and you get a message pop up about a 12 minute delay just ahead? Google saw everyone else's phones come to a stop/near-stop on the road ahead and is busy trying to help you route around it. Is that good? Bad? I don't know the answer but I find it convenient more than I find it obtrusive as I generally don't care if Google knows where I am.
  • by wbr1 ( 2538558 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @02:38PM (#52880903)
    Given the need for location awareness in many apps (regardless of the privacy implications), this makes some sense. Google could make it more granular, but most people want easy. They want to be able to say show me restaurants near me, or have pokemon go work. That said, if you do not want this level of tracking, you can turn your phone off when not in use.

    The power button still exists (unless apple deems it is not necessary in the next iphone).
    BTW, apple and MS location track as much as they can too.

    • I prefer to be tracked.

      So if I ever DON'T want to be tracked, I just leave the phone at home and commit my crimes. Law enforcement is so lazy they won't even think about actual detective work any more, they just find out who's phone was in the area.

    • by wbr1 ( 2538558 )
      To clarify my statement, location tracking is here. The benefits in devices are many, and you can do without them by leaving the phone behind or off.

      More critically what we need are clear lines into who has access to that data and for what purposes. Google telling me that the drive into work is 10 minutes longer due to an accident is handy. Google noting I went fishing instead of work is a little more creepy. Telling my my boss is worse. Letting gov have the data without warrant is worse still.

      • Along the lines of the FaceBook friend suggestion of a prostitute he had just visited that prompted a concerned call from a client. Amusing and scary!
  • Clarification (Score:4, Insightful)

    by LichtSpektren ( 4201985 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @02:39PM (#52880907)
    If I have my GPS turned off, is it still recording my location? Or is the article saying that it records your location if the GPS is on, even if you're not actively using Maps? Big difference there.
    • If your phone's GPS is on, then it tracks where you are, even if you told the app not to track your location.

      Need a law preventing non-essential privacy invasions from being standard, let alone not cancelable.

      Every single should have to request permission from the phone's OS to get any information, and if the phone says no, the app can't get that information AND must still be able to do everything it can do without that information.

    • by Anonymous Coward

      Yes, it still gathers your location periodically. It can use Wifi, Bluetooth, and cell towers to get your approximate location. It tell you as much on one of the screens you clicked past when you setup the phone.

    • GPS is one of three ways "location services" work. It also uses Wi-Fi and cellular.

    • Re:Clarification (Score:5, Informative)

      by Solandri ( 704621 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @04:30PM (#52881789)
      "Turning off" your phone's GPS doesn't actually disable the capability. All phones with GPS are required to be able to use it, even if it's turned off, so it can relay your location if you happen to call 911. So it's not like a hardware switch which powers down the GPS chip.

      The title of the submission doesn't match the summary. Summary states this can be defeated by turning off all location services (same as the iPhone [buzzfeed.com]). You don't have to delete Maps and Play as the title states. This being Android, if enough people are upset about it, someone will create a widget which lets you change the setting with a single tap whenever you want.

      I wrestled with it a few years back (when I finally got a phone whose battery would last all day even with GPS on), and eventually decided to leave GPS on all the time. Yes Google uses it to track me, but it's one of those things where you give up a little bit of your privacy (location) in exchange for useful services (real-time traffic updates). It's kinda like bittorrent. Nobody wants to seed because it sucks up your bandwidth, but without seeders the service stops working. People who expect real-time traffic while leaving their GPS off are essentially leechers. And I decided considering how heavily I use real-time traffic, it was my civic duty to leave the GPS on.

      Also, one of the bugs I've encountered in Marshmallow is that sometimes battery life plummets with the battery use monitor saying it's the Android system which is consuming it. I eventually figured out this was linked to location services somehow getting "stuck" on in Google Play. The fix is to uninstall the updates for Google Play Services [orduh.com], then allow Android to re-update it. I wonder if that's the same bug causing the battery drain reported in Nougat in TFA.
  • Am I missing something, or there's no link to the actual article?

    I thought /. had editors ...

    • by wiggles ( 30088 )

      I see it. I just used it. It's in parentheses right after the title.

      • Well, yes there is that link, but odd that all other stories in the page include links in the summary.

        It'd be nice to have some sort of consistency, don't you think?

        • The consistency is that every article that goes outside of Slashdot has that little green link next to the title. Links inside the summary are just a bonus, especially if it's a link to an alternate copy of the story where the primary one may be paywalled/ad-block-blocked.

  • I followed the instructions to turn off google play's permission to use my location, but this was already turned off. Am I missing something? The article only says the "latest Android build".

    • by tsqr ( 808554 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @03:01PM (#52881109)

      I followed the instructions to turn off google play's permission to use my location, but this was already turned off. Am I missing something? The article only says the "latest Android build".

      Are you positive that "Location" wasn't already turned off in Settings when you went to look at Google Play Services permissions? On my phone (6.0.1), if Location is turned on and I try to set Google Play Services location permission to "off", I get a popup informing me that Google Play Services is the source of location services for all other applications, and that if I want to deny location privileges to Google Play, I have to turn off Location (in Settings). If Location is turned off, the location permission is off in Google Play Services.

  • Just the beginning (Score:5, Insightful)

    by somenickname ( 1270442 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @02:44PM (#52880949)

    It won't be long before they start selling intrusive ads based on location, time of day, etc. It's around lunch time and you're walking on the street? Your phone buzzes to recommend a restaurant for you. That kind of advertisement could be sold to restaurants based on location, time of day, implied salary, whether you frequent a competitor, etc.

    • by amiga3D ( 567632 )

      How long do you think that would last? I can barely tolerate ads on a web browser. Something that buzzes me trying to recommend a restaurant would result in me entering to tell the proprietor what a piece of shit I considered him and how there would be icicles in Hell before I'd ever eat in that establishment. That kind of annoying advertising only works if people tolerate it.

      • If it's a choice between giving up their phones and tolerating intrusive daily ads that are derived from spying on you, most people will pick the phone without hesitation.

    • It won't be long before they start selling intrusive ads based on location, time of day, etc.

      How about you complain about that when it happens? Or maybe you don't have enough real problems in your life that you are imagining possible problems and fretting over those? Shit, what if they start sending your p0rnographic photos when they detect your mom visiting?

      I mean really, if it happens, and you don't like it, get a different phone that doesn't have that behavior. Problem solved.

      Also, I'm pretty sure they have already developed software that can detect the time of day, so that ship has sailed.

      • I'm not complaining, just pointing out the logical progression of what a Big Data company that makes money on advertising will do once it knows your position 24 hours a day. I could see the writing on the wall several years ago so just stopped carrying a cell phone. It's actually quite pleasant. I can have a conversation with someone without checking my phone every 10 seconds, no one has the expectation that they can get a hold of me 24/7 (and none of the ensuing drama when they can't), I don't have to w

    • by Luthair ( 847766 )
      Wasn't this the Apple Beacon shit?
  • This isn't so much a question about the rights or wrongs of Google deciding they have the right to track a user's phone if it runs Android, but more about the implications for the user.

    The introductory text, above, suggests that the Google Store will send your location data to Google, *without giving you the choice*. Now, if it also does this without explicitly telling you, without explicitly asking you to acknowledge and agree, then what happens if your monthly data usage cap is exceeded thanks to this
  • by FlyHelicopters ( 1540845 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @03:05PM (#52881137)

    This is why I've said over and over... Anyone who complains about Windows 10 thinking that it is the "big bad" when it comes to privacy simply hasn't been paying attention...

    That doesn't make Windows 10 spying all good, it just puts it into the same league as Apple and Google...

    • Exactly.

      Telemetry is the new model.

    • by iampiti ( 1059688 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @03:25PM (#52881307)
      Yes, Android spying is really bad but that doesn't make it right for Windows to do the same thing. It looks even worse because PC OSs didn't use to do that.
      What I hate most about this is that they don't give you the option to opt out of spying by paying some money. I'd gladly do it. Both on Android and on Windows. But. again, neither one gives you that option.
      Amazon got it right with the Kindle: You can have it cheaper with ads or you can pay some more and have no ads
    • by yodleboy ( 982200 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @03:39PM (#52881403)
      Which is exactly what I said when the W10 telemetry noise started here on /. MS just looked at Apple and Google collecting craploads of data with hardly a peep from their users and said "hey let's do that too". I wasn't thrilled they did it, but wasn't very surprised. I wonder if some of the more rabid posters on ./ really believe that MS is doing something more nefarious with the data they collect than anyone else? MS is playing catch up, the nefarious use is already happening elsewhere.
  • Street Traffic (Score:5, Interesting)

    by darkain ( 749283 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @03:07PM (#52881169) Homepage

    Have you ever wondered how Google Maps has near-real-time display of traffic maps on surface streets that don't have monitoring equipment set up by the DOT? *THIS* is exactly how they do it. They track the relative speed and location of smart phones traveling down various streets to figure out current traffic patterns. This is simply another case of giving up a piece of privacy for a free service in return. Love it or hate it, that's how this shit works.

    • Actually, this is a use case (presuming anonymized data points are used) which argues FOR the use of persistent telemetry. State DOTs pay tens of millions of dollars a year to collect a tiny fraction of this data for traffic studies. All the while, we sit on an amazingly complete set of data which, though crowdsourced traffic mapping, has become a reality.

      Of all the seemingly infinite ways this data can be misused, traffic and route mapping data falls outside of the "always bad" mantra.

  • by jfdavis668 ( 1414919 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @03:12PM (#52881211)
    You won't even know where you are.
  • Google Play Services claims to provide the location API for all apps, so of course if you turn off location permissions for Play you're going to turn it off for all apps. And if Maps is constantly reporting my position to Mother Google, why is it always pestering me to turn on location tracking?

    Personally, I have never been prompted by my phone to download an app just because of my location. Maybe that's because I don't leave Play (or Maps either) running in the background.

  • Finally allows me to select permissions for apps and services. Sure it'll bitch and yell "The sky will fall" but it hasn't.
    Google Play location services have been disabled on my phone for awhile already.

  • I suspect we can blame the entertainment mafiaa for this one - Google Play sells movies and TV and the studios want to control access by geo-location to content.

  • by Curunir_wolf ( 588405 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @03:39PM (#52881407) Homepage Journal

    You can try to deny Google Play access to your handheld's location by opening the Settings app and digging through Apps -> Google Play Store -> Permissions, and flipping the switch for "location." But you'll be told you can't just shut out Google Play services: you have to switch off location services for all apps if you want to block the store from knowing your whereabouts.

    Is this something new in Nougat? (Does anyone even run Nougat on anything yet?)

    I'm on Marshmallow (6.0.1), and I can turn off location permissions for the Google Play Store, and wasn't "told" anything when I did. Everything else works just fine. I can even turn on location for games or other apps, and they still work, and Google Play still doesn't have access to location. So I'm not sure what the summary is talking about, here.

  • by bongey ( 974911 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @04:44PM (#52881903)
    The so called 'security researcher' got confused with Google Nearby https://support.google.com/acc... [google.com] . Google also moved core android OS functions into Google Play Services so core functions could be updated without rolling an entire android update(which the oem would never do). Moving the location provider was part of the this rework, so everyone could get the latest google maps turn by turn directions and provide a consistent api to developers http://lifehacker.com/why-goog... [lifehacker.com].
  • by Conspicuous Coward ( 938979 ) on Tuesday September 13, 2016 @05:34PM (#52882247)

    There's a lot of misunderstanding here of how location and tracking on Android actually works.

    First of all, google play store has nothing to do with it. It's google play services that provides location services and implements location tracking in Android. That's the service that is used to retrieve AGPS data from the net, to correlate nearby wifi and mobile masts with lists held on google's servers to give location without GPS, and yes to provide tracking data on your location to google. Setting the location mode to "GPS Only" or similar is supposed to disable much of the tracking, but I'm not sure how much I'd trust that.

    Play services is a pretty core component of Android, and an awful lot of things will cease to function if you manage to remove it. You can block play services from accessing your location using 3rd party tools like XPrivacy, but location for most apps will cease to function without a complex set of workarounds.

    If you genuinely don't want your Android phone calling home with your location while still being able to use GPS, you need:

    • Root access
    • Xposed framework installed
    • XPrivacy installed and set to block location access for google play services
    • https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=org.microg.nlp
    • http://repo.xposed.info/module/de.r3w6.xposedunifiednlp
    • To remove google maps
    • To have a fuck of a lot of patience

    Thanks google...

    • Xposed is a good solution, but Amplify would be preferred over Xprivacy if you're more concerned about battery life. You can directly limit Google's alarm to wake up your phone and take location data. I went from thousands of alarms per day from GPServices (by far the top) to a couple hundred (about on par with Tasker) and it massively improves standby battery life.

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