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EPA Confirms Tesla's Model 3 Has a Range of 310 Miles (theverge.com) 283

Tesla's Model 3 has a confirmed range of 310 miles, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. "That figure applies to the long-range version of the Model 3, and echoes the vehicle specs released by Tesla back in July," reports The Verge. "It also makes the Model 3 one of the most efficient passenger electric vehicles on the market." From the report: The EPA's range is used as the advertised figure for electric vehicles that are sold in the US. The 310-mile range is an estimate of the number of miles the vehicle should be able to travel in combined city and highway driving from a full charge. That's 131 miles per gallon gasoline equivalent (MPGe) for city driving, 120 MPGe on the highway, and 126 MPGe combined. You'll have to pay more to get that extended range, though. Tesla said it would be selling a standard version of the Model 3, with just 220 miles of range, for $35,000. The long-range version will start at $44,000, the automaker says. Production on the standard version isn't expected to begin until 2018.
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EPA Confirms Tesla's Model 3 Has a Range of 310 Miles

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  • I don't care what the range is, until there are charging stations everywhere and a full charge happens in 10 minutes I would have range anxiety. You're totally going to say I'm being irrational, and I know I am, but it is what it is. I am just as bad with my phone,if it goes past 50% I have to plug it in.
    • by NEDHead ( 1651195 ) on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @06:52PM (#55647231)

      Trailer hitch & towable generator should solve the problem

    • MPGe (Score:2, Redundant)

      MPGe is stupid. There, I said it.
    • by Rei ( 128717 ) on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @07:01PM (#55647281) Homepage

      I don't care what the range is, until there are charging stations everywhere

      They are [tesla.com] (and rapidly expanding). And that's just superchargers - including slower ones (but still including high power DC), look here [plugshare.com].

      and a full charge happens in 10 minutes

      In your everyday life (aka, the vast majority of your time), instead of 5 minutes to detour to a gas station, a full charge takes 10 seconds: 5 to plug in, 5 to unplug. In the comfort of your garage.

      On long trips, it charges during meal and bathroom / stretch breaks, about 75 miles range per 10 minutes charging at below 50% SoC. Take, for example, a 700 mile trip. At 70mph that's 10 hours (not counting breaks), so two meal breaks - say, a 20 minute lunch and a 30 minute dinner. 45 minutes charging. That adds about 375 miles, meaning 685 miles. Just one or two 10 minute stretch breaks (on your 10 hour trip) and that's your entire charging.

      The only thing it doesn't work for is "sprint" trips, where you're basically trying to avoid all stops, eating in the car, minimizing all bathroom and rest breaks. And if you're the sort of person who does that... don't. Seriously, stop it; that's dangerous, not just to you, but to other drivers.

      I would have range anxiety

      A belief only held by people who've never owned an EV. Because 1) supercharging rates aren't slow; 2) you can extend range significantly just by slowing down, at any point in time (unlike ICE vehicles, EVs increase in range down to around 20-25mph), and 3) in the absolute worst case (which almost never happens), you can ask to charge virtually anywhere. Farmhouse in the middle of nowhere? Ranger station deep in a national park? You name it. And the answer in practice is almost always yes.

      • On long trips, it charges during meal and bathroom / stretch breaks, about 75 miles range per 10 minutes charging at below 50% SoC. Take, for example, a 700 mile trip. At 70mph that's 10 hours (not counting breaks), so two meal breaks - say, a 20 minute lunch and a 30 minute dinner. 45 minutes charging. That adds about 375 miles, meaning 685 miles. Just one or two 10 minute stretch breaks (on your 10 hour trip) and that's your entire charging.

        That's really nice, assuming of course that there are charging stations where you want to eat/stretch.

        • by Rei ( 128717 )

          They're about an hour apart, and constantly becoming denser.

          • by caseih ( 160668 )

            Where? In the top 5 big cities?

            The US is a big country, and there's a lot of territory to cover between the major urban centers, to say nothing of the thousands of smaller cities, even more smaller towns. To say nothing of rural areas (maybe they'll just let us burn gasoline indefinitely since there are so few of us now). There's a long long long ways to go for electric vehicles to be widely viable.

      • by ttsai ( 135075 )

        In your everyday life (aka, the vast majority of your time), instead of 5 minutes to detour to a gas station, a full charge takes 10 seconds: 5 to plug in, 5 to unplug. In the comfort of your garage.

        ... if you happen to have a garage and actually park your car inside the garage. I have a garage, but I park my car outside and would need a 50-foot cable to reach my car.

        On long trips, it charges during meal and bathroom / stretch breaks, about 75 miles range per 10 minutes charging at below 50% SoC. Take, for example, a 700 mile trip. At 70mph that's 10 hours (not counting breaks), so two meal breaks - say, a 20 minute lunch and a 30 minute dinner. 45 minutes charging. That adds about 375 miles, meaning 685 miles. Just one or two 10 minute stretch breaks (on your 10 hour trip) and that's your entire charging.

        ... if you are willing to make sure that your route passes those charging stations, you are willing to accept the eating options at those places, and you are willing to accept the risk that there are no open spots when you arrive.

        3) in the absolute worst case (which almost never happens), you can ask to charge virtually anywhere. Farmhouse in the middle of nowhere? Ranger station deep in a national park? You name it. And the answer in practice is almost always yes.

        Well, if the out-of-juice car happened to stop conveniently right next to the electric plug, that's great. Bu

      • by Alioth ( 221270 )

        We have a bit of a problem with electric vehicles here: about 50% of the housing stock has no off-street parking (let alone a garage). A huge percentage of our housing was built decades before cars were even invented. The thing is I live on an island and the most miles I can possibly do in a day would only be 60 or so, and an electric car would be ideal. I'd love to own one, but I can't because I have nowhere to charge it - there's no power anywhere near the car park at work, there's no power anywhere near

    • So you don't care if the range is 1,000,000 miles?
    • "I'm being irrational but I don't care" +1 insightful

      If it's that type of party, I irrationally think wolves are creeping up behind me every time I walk to my car in the dark.
      • by Dog-Cow ( 21281 )

        That would only be irrational if it wasn’t true. /cue creepy music and wolves howling in the distance.

    • by Kjella ( 173770 )

      I am just as bad with my phone,if it goes past 50% I have to plug it in.

      Well, a smartphone can end up spending quite a bit of battery even if you're not interacting with it. Particularly if you're doing something like GPS tracking, updates, cloud sync or whatever in the background or even just a faulty app causing 100% CPU load. An EV shouldn't really lose any significant amount of power on its own except for long time storage, as I understand it there's a roughly 1%/day vampire drain but for a commute or weekend trip it should be completely negligible and if it's plugged in th

  • Impressive (Score:5, Funny)

    by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @06:51PM (#55647221) Homepage Journal
    But like everyone I need to drive 311 miles per day. I'll wait for the Model 4.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by arth1 ( 260657 )

      The distance between my two work locations is 305 miles.
      It should cover that then, but it won't. T\he problem is that the EPA mileage takes into account neither sweltering summer heat nor winter temperatures way below freezing. Especially at really low temperatures, the range of electric cars is severely reduced, as in sometimes only getting half the range.

      And then it does not take two minutes to fill it, with stations at pretty much every crossroads. Even if you should be lucky enough to find a "rapid"

      • Re:Impressive (Score:5, Insightful)

        by 110010001000 ( 697113 ) on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @07:16PM (#55647359) Homepage Journal
        There is always "that guy" who needs to drive 300 miles in a day regularly. 305 miles is at least a five hour drive. Do you do that 20% of the time? If so, you need to find a new job because you are wasting your life away in a car.
        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Hal_Porter ( 817932 )

          Yeah, everyone knows if a new technology can't support your lifestyle, the solution is to redesign your lifestyle so that doesn't matter rather than sticking with the old technology. Got to keep upgrading and chucking the old technology in a landfill, even if the 'upgrade' is worse! Think of the environment!

        • by arth1 ( 260657 )

          There is always "that guy" who needs to drive 300 miles in a day regularly. 305 miles is at least a five hour drive. Do you do that 20% of the time?

          20% of the time would be one trip between two work locations every two weeks (because it also involves a return trip). That's not all that uncommon, depending on your position.

          But even 95% or 99% of the time would not be good enough. It's the worst case scenarios that's the problem. Say you come back from a long joyride, your batteries are almost flat, and then have to [go to a hospital because a relative was in an accident | go see an important customer the next state over | whatever else comes up] that

          • Cant call uber? Cant call a taxi? For those extremely hypothetical contingency?
            • by arth1 ( 260657 )

              Cant call uber? Cant call a taxi? For those extremely hypothetical contingency?

              I've taken some long taxi rides before, because of emergencies.
              A full tank is $40. A two hour taxi ride is more like $400 negotiated, and Uber around $300, but good luck getting one - they'd rather ride local surge pricing than go on long trips with zero return fares.

        • 300 miles at lest five hour drive? Please. I drive 75 mph on most interstates in the southwest. Sometimes faster. It's a four hour ride.

        • Re:Impressive (Score:5, Informative)

          by Octorian ( 14086 ) on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @10:04PM (#55648079) Homepage

          There is always "that guy" who needs to drive 300 miles in a day regularly. 305 miles is at least a five hour drive. Do you do that 20% of the time? If so, you need to find a new job because you are wasting your life away in a car.

          And for some reason, "that guy" *always* shows up in comment threads on articles like this one. He also often needs the cargo capacity of a pickup truck, and sometimes is driving to some shack in the deep woods with no electricity. Oh, and also assumes his use case is typical, or at least a complete blocker to anyone adopting EVs.

          • I have no idea how "that guy" comments so much as it seems he spends his whole life in the car. Hopefully he's not posting while driving.
        • If so, you need to find a new job because you are wasting your life away in a car.

          It often beats wasting it away under artificial lighting at a desk behind a screen.

        • by Chrisq ( 894406 )

          There is always "that guy" who needs to drive 300 miles in a day regularly. 305 miles is at least a five hour drive. Do you do that 20% of the time? If so, you need to find a new job because you are wasting your life away in a car.

          I did know someone who did this sort of mileage. he was a courier. 99.99% of people don't!

      • by Kjella ( 173770 )

        It's not going to be a good fit for you, but there's no need to exaggerate. Plowing your way through heavy snow/slush it could potentially get as bad as half, but ordinary cold winter conditions is more like a quarter. Superchargers don't appear by chasing leprechauns, either there is one between your work locations or there's not. Half an hour at a supercharger should give you ~170 miles and (310+170)*0.75 = 360 miles should make it just fine. And in the winter how fast are you going, 50 mph average? It's

        • It's a thirty minute break in a place where you have NO CHOICE to stop at. Big difference. People who stop for a rest usually like to be able to pick where that place is.
      • No body is forcing you to buy an electric car. Go ahead and buy whatever is suitable for you, whatever you like.

        Just give the same respect to other people. There will be people who might find electric cars adequate.

        At this point it is not the range, it is the price. The additional price of electric car does not justify the savings in fuel costs. So most people are not finding it compelling to try the new technology.

        When the breakthrough comes and when there is cost savings, people will switch.

        When el

        • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

          My Nissan Leaf is cheaper due to fuel savings than an equivalent petrol car. Of course I could buy a cheaper Hyundai, but it wouldn't offer the same level of comfort or performance as the Leaf. It would automatically de-frost itself in the morning, which I'm really appreciating at the moment.

      • Just how big is your bladder?
  • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @06:54PM (#55647247)

    The newer range is really great, about as much as most cars.

    But the thing you'd want to larger range for is really road trips, which per day would usually be composed of at least two 300 mile segments. So you have to figure out at least two charging points per day of trip, as well as overnight.

    Now they have done a great job of bringing superchargers online [tesla.com] where a lot of trips I could probably plot a path that included enough superchargers. Evening is still an issue though, lots of places it is hard to find somewhere to plug in. But with that kind of range, maybe it would be enough just to find one in the city I was staying in and charge up before I went to the hotel.

    I think it's close enough it would work for most road trips, except for some remote areas.

    • I'm liking the plug in hybrid idea a lot more than pure electric personally.

      The Prius gets 25, and would probably cover half of my miles (no road trips, and leave me about 15 short on a weekend as I'm often not home). The Chevy volt (at 50) would cover essentially all of my none long distance driving, even a pretty chore busy weekend.

      Wither way, there'd be no range anxiety, with half or less the trips to the gas station, and lower cost to maintain (less oil changes, less breaks, I assume an engine running

      • I think there are a few ways in which all electric is superior, the main one being performance over pretty much any hybrid I have seen... that's not important to everyone, but it is to a lot of people. That's primarily a Tesla feature though, not generalized to all electric cars.

        The aspect I do like is simplicity, with no gasoline engine at all there is less to go wrong.

        I still think in the end that hydrogen fuel-cell electrics will win out but Tesla's making a great case for fully battery powered vehicles

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by AvitarX ( 172628 )

          Plug in fuel cell, or pure fuel cell?

          Because I don't think there's a great way to make hydrogen (correct me if I'm wrong). Sure, it can be made from hydrocarbons cleaner and more efficiently than a small engine can power (and likely charge) a car, but essentially a hydrogen tank is a quick to charge battery, or it uses fossil fuels, I don't think it'll really take off. Much better (IMO) to have 90+% power grid electric driving, the rest fossil fuel.

          I wonder what Tesla could do performance wise if they made

          • by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @09:25PM (#55647943)

            Because I don't think there's a great way to make hydrogen (correct me if I'm wrong)

            There's not quite yet but there area lot of very promising cheaper ways to produce hydrogen coming to fruition over the next ten years.

            It has a lot of benefits, in that you can fuel up as fast as cars, and easily convert gas stations to store hydrogen. Any place with a lot of water can be a potential production source.

            Perhaps what will happen is cars will trend all electric, but charging stations will be altered to work off huge fuel cells so they are not such a huge draw off the electric grid.

            That's a big factor I don't see considered, what really has to change if 80+% of all cars are electric (as I expect they will be in 10-20 years). No matter what there is a huge infrastructure challenge ahead and I feel like hydrogen as fuel can be worked out before extra electrical grid capacity along with the many, many more charging stations that would be required for much wider use of electric cars.

            • There's not quite yet but there area lot of very promising cheaper ways to produce hydrogen coming to fruition over the next ten years.

              There's been a lot of very promising hydrogen related technologies coming to fruition over the next ten years for almost thirty years.

            • There's not quite yet but there area lot of very promising cheaper ways to produce hydrogen coming to fruition over the next ten years. [...] Any place with a lot of water can be a potential production source.

              They all require something expensive as input, in the case of electrolysis that's very clean water. You may not have noticed, but that's already at a premium on this planet, and it's becoming more scarce and thus expensive. You can of course make it any old time through steam distillation, but on that scale it takes a bunch of energy which is also expensive. Storage is also still an expensive problem to solve. GM and Honda's partnership is expected to produce a cost-effective fuel cell in the next generatio

              • by djinn6 ( 1868030 )

                They all require something expensive as input, in the case of electrolysis that's very clean water. You may not have noticed, but that's already at a premium on this planet, and it's becoming more scarce and thus expensive.

                You should try to learn a bit about a topic before writing about them, because you can't be more wrong.

                Tap water is just fine for electrolysis. One might even need to add salt or other impurities to it to get it to work. If you actually tried to use pure water, it'll backfire on you, because pure water doesn't conduct electricity, and the electric current in the water is what generates those H2 and O2 bubbles.

                Water is also not very expensive, in fact, it's negligible compared to the energy cost. My ci

      • My Fusion Energi only got 26 miles (on a good day), but even on cold days, it got me to work, where I could plug in. Unless I had to run out to a supplier or a plant, I was able to use it without an ICE for 100% of my "normal days."

        On the other hand, on those two or three days per month where I had to run between Flat Rock, Dearborn, Auburn Hills, Clinton Township, and then home, 320 miles would not have been enough (but of course, with the hybrid ICE, my tank was worth 600 miles, and I could gas it up anyw

    • by Rei ( 128717 ) on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @07:06PM (#55647309) Homepage

      You might have an interest in checking out Björn Nyland on Youtube. He works as a courier in Norway, driving Teslas a crazy number of kilometers every year.

      • There will always be people who don't mind working out strategies on how far and where they drive. It doesn't make it better on the people who don't want to have to worry about that.
    • by guacamole ( 24270 ) on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @08:07PM (#55647639)

      The newer range is really great, about as much as most cars.

      Absolutely not. Your information is seriously out of date.

      I'll give you two examples of pretty mainstream cars. First, is the 2016 three row Honda Pilot "gas guzzler". I am getting anywhere between 23 and 27mpg cruising on interstates, and it has 20 gallon gas tank, so the range is +400 miles. The second one is the 2017 Honda Accord. It has 17 gallon tank, and I am observing 33mpg in mixed driving, resulting again +500 mile range.

      • On the other hand, the Honda Element gets just short of 290 miles running the tank dry. Safer to fill up at around 270. I wish I could plug it in when it's parked in my garage because I spend far more time at home than on the road, but unfortunately it wants gasoline and I dont have a gasoline outlet in my garage, just an electrical outlet.

        I'd love to get a Tesla, but I think I've got at least another ten years before the Element wears out. I did take it on a road trip in 2006, but that was my last road tri

        • On the other hand, the Honda Element gets just short of 290 miles running the tank dry. Safer to fill up at around 270.

          My old-ass A8 Quattro will get around 400 miles on a full tank if I am gentle with the pedals, and while going as fast as I reasonably want to on public roads. My 240SX would get over 500, I miss the shit out of that car. It was pre-OBD2, with just one O2 sensor and no knock sensor.

      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Is a 500 mile range really that useful though? The >300 mile range of the Model 3 requires 5 hours of driving to deplete, and then 45-60 minutes of charging to recover. Practically most people would say stop every couple of hours to charge for 15 minutes, taking a bathroom and refreshment break at the same time.

        So unless you plan to drive for 8 hours non-stop, which is not safe and illegal for commercial drivers in the EU, it seems like there is little practical advantage to an EV with a >300 mile ran

      • My 10 year old Clio gets 625miles out of the tank. But all of that is completely irrelevant since I never drive more than about 150miles without taking a break anyway.... even on really long roadtrips.

    • But with that kind of range, maybe it would be enough just to find one in the city I was staying in and charge up before I went to the hotel.

      Marriott seems to be working very hard to not only add a ton of EV charging stations, but to give them very convenient parking locations. The Marriott hotels I've stayed at in 2017 all seem to have 20+ charging stations. I don't know about other brands, however.

    • which per day would usually be composed of at least two 300 mile segments.

      NO! If you're doing 300 mile segments in one stretch you'd a danger to yourself, your family, and every other car on the road after about 150miles.

      Do whatever roadtrips you want, but unless you have a completely self driving car, don't pretend that this requirement is in any way sane.

  • by DatbeDank ( 4580343 ) on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @07:22PM (#55647393)

    I'll wait a few more years. I know a few folks who love love love their Teslas, but they keep having to bring them in for service once a month for various problems (albeit minor in the grand scheme of things). You'd think for a car this expensive, the kinks would be all worked out.

    Reminds me of Delorean's issues when they started out.

    • by Rei ( 128717 ) on Wednesday November 29, 2017 @07:41PM (#55647505) Homepage

      What you're seeing is a combination of selection bias and the high media / public interest in Tesla. Consumer Reports rates the Model S as "above average" in terms of reliability (they expect Model 3 to be "average"). Model X, however, is still "below average", so that's legit.

      It's also worth noting that Tesla consumer satisfaction ratings always top the industry, at around 90%.

    • but they keep having to bring them in for service once a month

      Wow, observer bias much? What did you read that in the Daily Mail which is repeating the article about one guy who breaks something every month and call it data?

      Tesla's reliability is generally considered well above average.

    • Apparently Telsa's cars cost $2000/year to service [seekingalpha.com] on average. This sounds like a real issue that has not been sufficiently discussed.

  • A bunch of groups did tests and putting a really good gas generator in the back can get you more than triple that range. It's not exactly efficient money or energy-wise but it does work in actual tests.
  • I rode in a Honda Hybrid. With the little dinky drive and charge motor. That thing flew! And it easily gets 60mpg if you are easy on it. Tesla can do better than that. Maybe double the gas mileage. He's got the brains for it!
  • I have yet to see a Tesla in my town, but I have seen Nissan Leafs ("Leaves"?) literally every day for the past fortnight when travelling across town. If I had to guess, perhaps 1 in 50 cars I see at the moment is a Leaf.

    That blows my mind.

    Many have been of different colours and some had signwriting for small businesses. Either we've had a massive rise in their popularity or it's a very persistent and dedicated marketing campaign.

    • Electric cars are taking off because CARB (the California agency regulating air quality) mandates that a certain percentage of each automaker's sales have to be zero emissions [autoalliance.org]. Currently this is EVs (though Toyota has a hydrogen vehicle for sale). The target last year was less than 1%, but the target for 2025 is over 15%.

      If an automaker fails to met the percentage, they have to buy credits from a manufacturer which exceeded their quota. This is what keeps Tesla afloat.

      If an automaker fails to earn
      • by Trogre ( 513942 )

        Interesting.

        Not sure that applies in this case though, as I do not live in the US, let alone California, and there are no subsidies here.

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