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Google Android Iphone Privacy

Many Google Services on Android Devices and iPhones Store Location Data, Even if Location Sharing is Disabled From Privacy Settings: AP (apnews.com) 122

Posted by msmash from the what-in-the-world dept.
Google wants to know where you go so badly that it records your movements even when you explicitly tell it not to. An Associated Press investigation found that many Google services on Android devices and iPhones store your location data even if you've used privacy settings that say they will prevent it from doing so. The Associated Press reports that it has confirmed its findings with computer science researchers at Princeton. From the report: For the most part, Google is upfront about asking permission to use your location information. An app like Google Maps will remind you to allow access to location if you use it for navigating. If you agree to let it record your location over time, Google Maps will display that history for you in a "timeline" that maps out your daily movements. Storing your minute-by-minute travels carries privacy risks and has been used by police to determine the location of suspects -- such as a warrant that police in Raleigh, North Carolina, served on Google last year to find devices near a murder scene. So the company will let you "pause" a setting called Location History. Google says that will prevent the company from remembering where you've been. Google's support page on the subject states: "You can turn off Location History at any time. With Location History off, the places you go are no longer stored." That isn't true. Even with Location History paused, some Google apps automatically store time-stamped location data without asking.

For example, Google stores a snapshot of where you are when you merely open its Maps app. Automatic daily weather updates on Android phones pinpoint roughly where you are. And some searches that have nothing to do with location, like "chocolate chip cookies," or "kids science kits," pinpoint your precise latitude and longitude -- accurate to the square foot -- and save it to your Google account. The privacy issue affects some two billion users of devices that run Google's Android operating software and hundreds of millions of worldwide iPhone users who rely on Google for maps or search. Storing location data in violation of a user's preferences is wrong, said Jonathan Mayer, a Princeton computer scientist and former chief technologist for the Federal Communications Commission's enforcement bureau.
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Many Google Services on Android Devices and iPhones Store Location Data, Even if Location Sharing is Disabled From Privacy Setti More

Many Google Services on Android Devices and iPhones Store Location Data, Even if Location Sharing is Disabled From Privacy Setti

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  • Illegal (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 13, 2018 @09:48AM (#57115814)

    Its not only wrong but clearly illegal (at least in Europe). Cue Google sanctions in 3 2 ...

    • Re:Illegal (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Monday August 13, 2018 @09:52AM (#57115840)

      I was thinking that, if they do something like this in Europe, I could foresee the highest EVER fine imposed on anyone worldwide brewing.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The EU will hit them with another 5 billion Euro fine, Google will shrug if off as business as usual, and continue doing what they're doing.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Who cares, as they are making 95 billions a year by spying their users, so a 5 billion fine is a minor cost of a business. Only when the fines from illegalities are more than the profits gained from crimes, the companies will react.

      • Re:Illegal (Score:5, Informative)

        by Zocalo ( 252965 ) on Monday August 13, 2018 @10:38AM (#57116104) Homepage
        Worth keeping in mind that the GDPR fines against revenue, not the profit or net income after all the financial shell games to avoid taxes have been played out. Assuming the worst case fine under the GDPR, 4% of global revenue, and based on the figures Google declared for 2017 that would wipe out approximately one third of of their net income for the year. They'd still be in the black, but that's hardly a minor cost of doing business, and also before you take into account potential fines from all of the other legal jurisdictions they're operating in.

        I expect them to make the need to tick a box giving permission for them to do this and get them off the potential legal hook fairly promptly, and maybe even act apologetic about the "accidental oversight" or some such. The implications of actually ticking that box will also be about as clear as mud, of course.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Well, it's not Location Sharing, it's Location Storing, so I guess there's a difference and one is not covered by the law as it's on your local device and, shock, not shared.

    • MicroG (Score:3)

      by emil ( 695 )

      It really is time to upgrade my phone to MicroG, and put an end to this.

      https://lineage.microg.org/ [microg.org]

    • "Storing" and "sharing" are not the same thing. It might not be illegal to store location data, even if location sharing is turned off.

      • Obviously, they need your location to open a map to that location. But beyond that, it all gets iffy. Okay, maybe they want to store a list of your 'favorite' locations in order to provide services (or, yes, ads) to you relevant to that list. For example, Maps puts push-pins onto locations you've searched for before. But then again, why does it matter to them when you visited those locations? They seem to have the attitude that they'll just store all the raw data you give them - and figure out what to

  • Use Here maps. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Cross platform. Fuck Google.

  • Sounds like location based search and location history are implemented as two separate services. But that isn't something the user should need to worry about.

  • Don't be Evil (Score:5, Funny)

    by JoeyRox ( 2711699 ) on Monday August 13, 2018 @09:50AM (#57115834)
    But if you are going to be evil, make sure you stamp the location of each act of evilness.

  • Punitive regulation (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sinij ( 911942 ) on Monday August 13, 2018 @09:54AM (#57115844)
    It is very clear to me that big players like Google, Facebook, and Twitter are not going to voluntarily allow people to retain their privacy. This story is an example of a large company intentionally misleading and gathering data despite user explicitly telling them not to. It is likely that such brazen violation is not even against the law.

    The law must change. Call for punitive regulation, it is the only way the learn.
    • I have to ask you guys a question: why do you think these companies are providing these "free" services? Are they altruistic?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by sinij ( 911942 )
        A car analogy - I offer to wash your car for free, but then when you give me the keys I end up going Ferris Bueller [wikipedia.org] on it.
      • That's a good point, but if they offer the option to turn this off (or are required to), they ought to conform to it. It would be worse publicity to have GMail Free SpyOnMe Edition, with tracking enabled, or turn off tracking/adverts for $1/mo but it'd at least be honest. Amazon doesn't sell an ad free Kindle and just enable them anyway.

      • So they get ad revenue for showing me ads that don't relate to me in any way. My issue with all the spying, from Google, from the Government, etc, get no results!

      • Re:Punitive regulation (Score:5, Insightful)

        by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Monday August 13, 2018 @11:52AM (#57116598) Journal

        I have to ask you guys a question: why do you think these companies are providing these "free" services? Are they altruistic?

        What free services (we're talking about Android here). People pay actual money for android phones and to get the ones with all the google services the phone manufacturers have to pay google.

        These are not free services. These are services customers are paying for when they buy the phones.

        • These are not free services. These are services customers are paying for when they buy the phones.

          Nope. That's software that customers are paying for when they buy the phones, specifically "Play Services". Too bad it's called a service, when it's a software. The services exist on Google's servers, and they are provided to the user free of charge, if not cost. The cost, obviously, is reduction of privacy. I find that offensive as well, but not so offensive that I have to misunderstand the argument in order to argue against it.

          • Nope. That's software that customers are paying for when they buy the phones, specifically "Play Services". Too bad it's called a service, when it's a software. The services exist on Google's servers, and they are provided to the user free of charge, if not cost.

            Really? I thought you only got access to the sevices if you pay (i.e. the vendor of your phone pays and inevitable passes on the cost to you). The software is simply an access mechanism to the services.

            • Really? I thought you only got access to the sevices if you pay

              Nope. Google theoretically prohibits users from installing gapps on their devices, but in practice does nothing to prevent it.

              The software is simply an access mechanism to the services.

              It's a lot more than that. You can supposedly sub out Google's software, though, using MicroG [microg.org].

        • By "free services", I was thinking of Google Search, Google Maps, Gmail, Google Drive, YouTube, Google Assistant, etc.

          All of those are free and come baked into Android.

          • All of those are free and come baked into Android.

            If they're baked into android, they're not free. In order to have those apps, the phone vendor needs to pay google, which means you're paying as part of the phone you purchased.

        • People DON'T pay for Android. Not even the big vendors like Samsung. Where Google makes its money is via OEM lock-in with the play store and assorted data collection and advertising revenue that results from that. The play store is also free, but OEM's cannot provide their own app store and expect to have the fully-featured android. It's ingenious really, subsidizing the cost of OS development by forcing everyone who has your OS to use only your store. It's exactly what MS wants to do with Windows 10 - and

    • The law must change. Call for punitive regulation

      GDPR to the rescue (in Europe).

    • It is likely that such brazen violation is not even against the law.

      The law must change.

      So, the law - which you're not at all sure of - must change?

  • the Police could always subpoena cellular carriers for tower tracking information regarding the location of the phone.

    Using google map locations seems like lazy police work and tracking data has the potential to be "faked" by someone with sufficient resources.

    Google location tracking being enabled is the first mistake. It's like bluetooth, why turn it on if you're not actively using it? Check your google settings, repeatedly.

    • the Police could always subpoena cellular carriers for tower tracking information regarding the location of the phone.

      That requires :
      - the phone to be connected to an actual cell tower (not in Airplane mode, not a tablet with Wifi-only)
      - that there is a SIM in the phone (otherwise they only know that there is *a* smartphone with IMEI number, but not even a phone number)
      - that the SIM was registered so someone's identity (to know whose that number is).

      Using google map locations seems like lazy police work

      Google map location can work :
      - in airplane more using only pure GPS receiver.
      - online with no GPS chip, only by using lists of visible cell tower and visible Wifi ap.

      Also Goo

    • Re: If you're using a Cell phone (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward

      âoeGoogle location tracking being enabled is the first mistake. It's like bluetooth, why turn it on if you're not actively using it?â

      Because they gimp your phone to death if you disable it.

      Want to use Okay Google / Google Assistant to play a song with Spotify? Fuck you, enable location tracking first.

      Want to use Wade intermittently without getting stalked between usages? Bow down bitch, turn location history on so we can record every time you take a dump.

      Want to use network provided time zone? Ben

    • Using google map locations seems like lazy police work and tracking data has the potential to be "faked" by someone with sufficient resources.

      Using cellular carrier tower data requires a warrant. If a suspect can be convinced to hand over their phone...

  • Which is why I spoof it (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward

    This is why I spoof that info, block access to the actual hardware with magisk, disable background modules/components of individual apps, and block network access.

    Getting more annoying to use an android device than a Windows device these days. I remember having to do a ton of managing app defaults, re-setting associations, removing companion apps, spyware/malware checks, and similar things which is what made me switch to Linux.

    I wish there was an easy way to install Linux to any android device so I could di

    • I wish there was an easy way to install Linux to any android device so I could ditch Android... {...} Ubuntu touch is dead and I'm not sure what else exists.

      Jolla has developped Sailfish.
      as they've developped libhybris (the same thing that Ubuntu Touch used), it's possible for the community to develop ports to lots [merproject.org] of android devices (a couple of Sony Xperias, upcoming Gemini, etc.)

      Jolla has also released it for a couple of select devices [jolla.com] as an officially supported commercial project.

      Also there's Purism's Librem 5 project to build a phone with an entire opensource Linux stack.

  • Editors, please! (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Storing your minute-by-minute travels carries privacy risks and has been used by police to determine the location of suspects -- such as a warrant that police in Raleigh, North Carolina, served on Google last year to find devices near a murder scene. So the company will let you "pause" a setting called Location History.

    --> this is not the way to present the issue. We can have perfectly legitimate reasons not to be tracked by unknown third parties. The most perfectly legitimate reason is: why would you wa

    • I hate to break it to you: but all mobile phones are tracked minute by minute anyway. I know, astonishing, but that is how the system works.

      • I hate to break it to you: but all mobile phones are tracked minute by minute anyway.

        Apples to oranges. The phone company has a legitimate reason to know your phone's location when on - namely that it doesn't work if they don't. They also have legitimate reasons to record some of this data for billing purposes and service provision. Precise contents of what you are doing at that minute not so much in most circumstances and isn't recorded. They aren't (or rather shouldn't be) tracked minute by minute by rando third parties without explicit permission from you.

        • The phone company has a legitimate reason to know your phone's location when on - namely that it doesn't work if they don't.

          Not really. They have a legitimate reason to know what cell site your phone is currently communicating with, but not to know your position, until you make a 911 call and they have to provide E911 services. Knowing which cell site you're talking to unavoidably gives a general idea of your position, since cellular antennas are sectored, but it doesn't tell anyone precisely or even necessarily usefully where you are. It's easy enough to calculate that with some precision even with a single site in "view" if yo

  • Shocker (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 13, 2018 @10:08AM (#57115916)

    I've always said, when you disable location on Android it's more likely that you're just toggling your own ability to see the location data that Google is collecting. Just because now your phone won't show you your current location doesn't mean it isn't being recorded, it just means your phone won't share it with you.

    • Re:Shocker (Score:5, Interesting)

      by larryjoe ( 135075 ) on Monday August 13, 2018 @11:49AM (#57116578)

      I've always said, when you disable location on Android it's more likely that you're just toggling your own ability to see the location data that Google is collecting. Just because now your phone won't show you your current location doesn't mean it isn't being recorded, it just means your phone won't share it with you.

      I always disable location on my phone, but not because I believe that Google isn't still tracking me. I do it to save battery usage. At least in previous versions of Android, enabling location seemed to trigger background processes. Since these the activities of these processes were largely related to ads and other things that had no direct benefit to me, I turned off location. The battery savings was always immediately noticeable.

      The amount of personal, private information that Google has collected and calculated is staggering. Think of the US government having that information but with no semblance of legal checks (no required warrants, no FOIA requests, no need to get Congress to allow data collection, no voting disagreeable people out of office, etc.) on the use/abuse of that information, and that is the current situation with Google. The only comfort users have is the assurance that Google will do no evil.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by antdude ( 79039 )

        Also, disable cellular when not in used. I do this on my iPhone 4S. I basically put it mostly offline. Power is saved a lot! If I need GPS, cellular, etc., then I turn them on. And then off when done.

    • I've always said, when you disable location on Android it's more likely that you're just toggling your own ability to see the location data that Google is collecting.

      And you've always been wrong. Disabling location services does exactly what it says on the box. However that is not the only method of obtaining a location.

  • No F*cking Kidding (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday August 13, 2018 @10:10AM (#57115926)

    I have tried hard for ages to lock google down, I have so many privacy addons that I need 3 browsers just to surf the net.
    I only go to sites I trust on my phone and I have everything turned off

    then the other week, I was walking past a train station and bingo, I got a message from google maps kindly telling when the next train would be.
    It might have been nice if I wanted the message and I opted in but I didn't
    I don't use google maps, it wasn't running google maps (well, at least in the terms that most people would call running, as in I opened it and asked for maps or directions)
    but yep, the perverts at google don't respect my wishes and knew exactly where I was.
    I had turned off location/all history, that only seems to mean they don't tell me what my history is.
    They still keep that data for their own purposes and they are always recording.

    google = Pure perverts - thru and thru

    If I want to find a business near me, I will ask. Other than that piss off and leave me alone.
    If google asked nicely and told me my data would be anonymized and deleted after I reasonable time (as in hours), I would agree to the uploading of my data.
    I am more then prepared to help others with freeway speeds as a payback for seeing what is happening on the freeways. But no, they just record everything and use it for advertising wherever they can. F* you google.
    If I figure out a business is using location for ad's, I boycott them. Its not much but f*ck you Google and companies that support perverts.

    Oh yeah. I know google sucks but seriously, in maps, white roads on a white background just suck - does anyone else remember when google was competent, not just perverts?

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Required by Law (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Phone operating systems are required by law to track location data in order to provide E911 services. At the very least, the Phone application on your pocket supercomputer must be aware of your location 24/7 so that it can provide your location to emergency services. The law does not permit acquisition delay - the information must be transmitted to E911 the moment the call is picked up.

    • Phone operating systems are required by law to track location data in order to provide E911 services. At the very least, the Phone application on your pocket supercomputer must be aware of your location 24/7 so that it can provide your location to emergency services. The law does not permit acquisition delay - the information must be transmitted to E911 the moment the call is picked up.

      Uhm, yeah, okay...phones have been doing that since like 2005, and I'm not talking about Blackberry or WinMo, but Nokia candy bar phones had a GPS receiver in them for that purpose.

      Somehow, that information got from the phone to E911 in a pre-Android, pre-iPhone environment, long before there was ever an infrastructure with which to collect and analyze that data by Google or Apple.

      If it's an E911 thing, fine...but the entire issue here is that it's not up to Google to collect data for E911 unless they expli

  • Not MAC as in addresses, but rather Mandatory Access Control rules, part of SE Linux. They were invented to prevent exactly this kind of confidentiality leak.

  • 2010s = Humans using technology for evil (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    1. Windows 10 + other msoft products
    2. Google
    3. Forced spying in all apps
    4. Forced spying on TVs, stereos (Samsung is particularly evil), Roombas. Yes Roombas.
    5. Facial Recognition
    6. Cameras in your face at every store
    7. License plate readers
    8. all the new cameras and IR systems on our highways

    It's to the point where we all have to ask ok, what's the least worst product and what I can I do to make using it NOT disturbing?

    • -Windows 10, you can block the places it sends the data to with firewall.
      -For license plate readers you can install IR emitting diods on the license plate. For human eyes they will see nothing, for a camera the license plate will light up like a Christmas tree. The light will be so intense that all the camera will see is a white blob. Do note that some camera manufacturers have fixed this issue.
      -Google, if it is the online services, not sure, use a VPN maybe.
      -For the rest use a good firewall. Some firewalls

  • Yawn (Score:2, Funny)

    by reanjr ( 588767 )

    So, Google uses location data when providing maps and weather. I am SHOCKED! FUCKING SHOCKED I tell you!!!

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Are there any mitigations that we can perform to limit this behaviour?

    For example, I've been reading about the Blackberry Key2 and it's DTEK software. Can it prevent this kind of shenanigans?

  • Stupid article (Score:4, Informative)

    by brunes69 ( 86786 ) <`gro.daetsriek' `ta' `todhsals'> on Monday August 13, 2018 @07:54PM (#57119410)

    Disabling "Location History" *IS NOT THE SAME THING* as disabling Location TRACKING.

    "Location History" is a VERY SPECIFIC feature of Google/Android and is used to provide you reccomendations based on places you go and travel patterns. Disabling that DOES NOT disable all location tracking on Android - that is a DIFFERENT SETTING.

    Hell, it is RIGHT IN THE QUICK SHORTCUTS. Unmissable!

    What an idiotic article.

  • This is one reason Android security should have a feature that allows Android to send fake data to Android apps. For instance if an app refuse to run until you have given it permission to your contacts and location data when it clearly do not use either you should be allowed to put the app on a list that switches Android from sending real data to sending fake data. The app will be happy since it is getting data and you are happy since the app is getting fake data.

    It is too bad it is so easy to brick a phone

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