German Prosecutors Indict Top VW Bosses Over Diesel Emissions Scandal (reuters.com) 36
dryriver shares a report from Reuters: German prosecutors have accused Volkswagen's CEO of holding back market-moving information on rigged emissions tests four years ago, raising the prospect of fresh upheaval at the carmaker just as it tries to reinvent itself as a champion of clean driving. Prosecutors in the city of Braunschweig said on Tuesday they would press criminal charges of stock market manipulation against Volkswagen CEO Herbert Diess, as well as non-executive Chairman Hans Dieter Poetsch and former CEO Martin Winterkorn. The charges show how the German company, which in September 2015 admitted using illegal software to cheat U.S. diesel engine tests, is struggling to move on from a scandal which has cost it more than $30 billion in vehicle refits, fines and provisions. In a statement issued after an emergency meeting, the (VW supervisory) board's executive committee said it "cannot see that there was any deliberate attempt not to inform the capital market." The former U.S. regulator who helped bring Volkswagen's cheating to light dismissed the company's arguments. "The excuse that top managers knew nothing is very weak," Alberto Ayala, who served at the California Air Resources Board (CARB) until 2017, told German news magazine Spiegel. Separately on Tuesday, German prosecutors hit rival carmaker Daimler with an 870 million euro fine for breaking diesel emissions rules. The Stuttgart-based maker of Mercedes-Benz cars said it would not appeal.
What? (Score:5, Funny)
Indict a CEO?
Is that legal?
Re:What? (Score:5, Insightful)
well, it's not the US, so it might be.
Re: (Score:2)
Indict a CEO?
Is that legal?
No, but it's the right, and necessary thing to do. If people are doing wrong, the higher up the corporate ladder they are, the greater the negative effects upon others. If people make big bad decisions, they need to be held accountable, as people in charge need to learn from their mistakes. Without big penalties, the powerful will never change.
A system without feedback is going nowhere, and usually fast.
Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)
Sure it is. Keep telling yourself that.
Prosecutors have accused Volkswagen's CEO of holding back market-moving information.
Meanwhile, Tesla's CEO had to shed $40 million in penalties for posting market-moving information on Twitter.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. This isn't justice, this is just governments grabbin' money from the people that actually do stuff in the world. Like the governments always do.
Ummmm duh?
It's more like damned if you do wrong , and damned if you do wrong.
They both made stupid fucking mistakes WAAAAYYYYYYY fucking below their pay grade. You don't get the fucking CEO bucks for being a stupid fucking asshole or criminal. At least in any adequately functioning society you don't.
You get them for being a good CEO. Measured , insightful, intelligent, aware of legal consequences... you get the fucking idea. There are billions of fucking people in this world , we don't need fuckheads ru
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Sure it is. Keep telling yourself that.
Prosecutors have accused Volkswagen's CEO of holding back market-moving information.
Meanwhile, Tesla's CEO had to shed $40 million in penalties for posting market-moving information on Twitter.
Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. This isn't justice, this is just governments grabbin' money from the people that actually do stuff in the world. Like the governments always do.
Ummmm duh?
It's more like damned if you do wrong , and damned if you do wrong.
They both made stupid fucking mistakes WAAAAYYYYYYY fucking below their pay grade. You don't get the fucking CEO bucks for being a stupid fucking asshole or criminal. At least in any adequately functioning society you don't.
You get them for being a good CEO. Measured , insightful, intelligent, aware of legal consequences... you get the fucking idea. There are billions of fucking people in this world , we don't need fuckheads running corporations, or countries.
We can do better.
Modded down for .... flamebait? seriously?
ok
Re: (Score:2)
I think it is because at one time you said the F word.
Re: (Score:1)
This is *precisely* what I meant below. (Score:1)
You don't even realize that what you call "government" is made out of lobbyists of precisely the corporations you are defending against "the government", who were the ones who actually harmed you.
Would there be an actual democratic government, then it would by definition include you and your interests.
So you merely actually hate, that it is not you who's in power.
You're not alone on that one. We nearly all feel that way.
But hating the one concept of an institution, a democratic government, that was invented
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:1)
Well, now you know why Trump thinks he's immune from any criminal proceedings. He still thinks he's a CEO.
Re: What? (Score:2)
He still thinks he's a CEO.
He is the CEO of the United States, INC.
What? (Score:4, Funny)
Herbert Diess? Legally force him to change his name to Herbert Diesel. That will teach him!
Jesus Christ in bed with donkeys... (Score:2)
In a statement issued after an emergency meeting, the board’s executive committee said it “cannot see that there was any deliberate attempt not to inform the capital market”.
This logic (can't prove that there was no attempt to not do something...) needs to be taken outside and shot.
Let me try this new approach to logic:
No officer, you cannot prove that I didn't try to not buy or sell drugs. Try harder next time, yo.
Sounds grrrrreat!
Re: (Score:2)
In a statement issued after an emergency meeting, the board’s executive committee said it “cannot see that there was any deliberate attempt not to inform the capital market”.
This logic (can't prove that there was no attempt to not do something...) needs to be taken outside and shot.
Let me try this new approach to logic: No officer, you cannot prove that I didn't try to not buy or sell drugs. Try harder next time, yo.
Sounds grrrrreat!
Yes they cheated but why is the real question here, it is not as if there was no reason to do the efficiency cheat?
In the mean time the same assholes complaining about this are chipping and egr deleting their old cummins pig mobiles and belching out black smoke all over the US then if they get pulled in they just quickly put it back to stock and pass the year model emissions test, take it home and turn it back into a soot belching monster again. Then if they sell it they put it back to stock and sell the c
There are no laws. (Score:1)
There is only the biggest lever/stick.
Laws are only laws because somebody with the biggest stick enforces them. If you don't have the biggest stick, you can call declare laws and rights and property and declare yourself a government or democracy all day long. It won't mean shit.
Worse still, if the one with the biggest stick replaces your legislators, judges police and media. Aka 3rd generation "revolving doors" lobbyism.
[That is why I hate it when Americans say they hate government or want it smaller. You h
Winterkorn too. (Score:4, Insightful)
I want to remind everyone that while Winterkorn was CEO at the time the story broke, he was promoted from the ranks of the engineers and most likely knew about the cheating before the other C-level executives would have. He may have even signed off on it.
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It's his JOB as CEO to know about it. If he didn't "know" then he has no business being CEO.
Yeah it's tough I know, get your shit together people.
One less round of golf?
Pity.
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It's his JOB as CEO to know about it.
Thinking it's the CEO's job to know the intricate engineering details of products is why you would never make a good CEO, and frankly it makes you a poor engineer too.
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Sign off? Most dubious orders are done off the record, often with multiple hints and wink wink.
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Exactly. VW isn't the only one to have done this. They're just the only one that got caught.
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Fiat/Chrysler also was caught cheating, but so far settled out of court. And there are accusations against other car companies. We'll see...
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Wasn't Fiat part of the Volkswagen group? Fruit of the same poisoned tree, and all that.
Pollute air, con customers: OK. But investors!!!! (Score:2)
But cheat some investors for a penny, and you stand with one foot in jail already! Tells a lot how politicians and car manufacturers conspired in this sick system.
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Indeed, the criminals are indicted not for their actual crime, but for not telling the stock market about their crime.
While I applaud getting Al Capone for tax evasion, getting him for murder would have been a better outcome.
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Then everything he did would be a ok, he could for example simply declare his opponents as terrorists and hard working taxpayers would gladly pay the bill for taking care of business.
Amateur. Guys like ex ceo of halliburton Cheney (also 'accidently' a vice president) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] could teach him a thing or two
Could Be Worse (Score:1)
https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-white-collar-criminals-death-sentence-2013-7
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If you are extremely well connected, like being the son of the big chief, all will be well, for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] This could mean that decisions are actually made by the 'official big chief' and not some 'shadowy shape shifting alien banker lizzards' like in the west.
Where's that "responsibility" you got money for? (Score:1)
Bosse always excuse them taking a cut of the income you actually made with your work and their crazy high salaries with "I take the risks. If it goes wrong it's my head on the block. I shoulder the responsibilities. I make the hard decisions.".
But whenever shit starts to fly, suddenly it was either some scapegoat employee (who would have gone anyway, and will get a nice fat checkque and a glowing review, of course), or "the CEOs did nothing wrong".
Always, without exception.
In say now it's time to eat your
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Bosse always excuse them taking a cut of the income you actually made with your work and their crazy high salaries with "I take the risks. If it goes wrong it's my head on the block. I shoulder the responsibilities. I make the hard decisions.".
1. big fat lie. They are protected by their subordinates who take the fall for anything bad. if you ever played a video game you need to kill many low level npcs before you get to the big boss. Only once you run out of npcs to kill big boss appears :)
2. You get high salary exclusively because of your 'negotiation position' not because you 'work hard'. Nobody gives rats ass if you work hard or not (except other peons maybe). Try to guess what happens if you have nobody which will negotiate for you?
3. Big
Keep it coming (Score:2)
and it only took them ~5 years to do it (Score:1)