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Amazon Appeals Pentagon's Choice of Microsoft For $10 Billion Cloud Contract (npr.org) 78

Posted by BeauHD from the this-could-get-ugly dept.
Amazon is going into battle with the Pentagon over a massive military tech contract awarded to Microsoft. Amazon cited "unmistakable bias" as it prepares to protest the selection in federal court. NPR reports: This begins a new chapter in the protracted and contentious battle over the biggest cloud-computing contract in U.S. history -- called JEDI, for Joint Enterprise Defense Infrastructure -- worth up to $10 billion over 10 years. The Pentagon declared Microsoft the winner of JEDI on Oct. 25, after months of delays, investigations and controversy -- at first, over accusations of a cozy relationship between Amazon and the Department of Defense, and later, over President Trump's public criticism of Amazon.

In a statement on Thursday, Amazon's cloud unit argued that "numerous aspects of the JEDI evaluation process contained clear deficiencies, errors, and unmistakable bias -- and it's important that these matters be examined and rectified." The company is appealing the contract at the U.S. Court of Federal Claims. Amazon Web Services spokesperson said the company was "uniquely experienced and qualified" for the job, adding: "We also believe it's critical for our country that the government and its elected leaders administer procurements objectively and in a manner that is free from political influence." Amazon was stunned by its loss of the JEDI contract. Microsoft's cloud business Azure has been a distant second in size to AWS, which also previously won a cloud contract with the CIA. But a former Pentagon official familiar with the JEDI deal previously told NPR that Microsoft's bid "hit the ball out of the park."
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Amazon Appeals Pentagon's Choice of Microsoft For $10 Billion Cloud Contract More

Amazon Appeals Pentagon's Choice of Microsoft For $10 Billion Cloud Contract

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  • Do what was needed for PRISM.

  • 1) Big companies can afford to appeal contract awards - happens plenty.

    2) I'm doubting that these bids could have been that far apart. Even if Microsoft "hit the ball out of the park", their bid was at least to the warning track (sorry about the baseball speak).

    3) I'm sure Bezos doesn't mind going after the President.

    • I'm doubting that these bids could have been that far apart.

      Wouldn't be so sure about that, Microsoft is a lot more hungry than Amazon in the cloud market, Azure having only a fraction of AWS's market share despite being #2. A marque win like this, if they can actually deliver the goods, would be a big thing for them.

      • Re:Not at all surprising (Score:5, Insightful)

        by LostMyAccount ( 5587552 ) on Thursday November 14, 2019 @10:09PM (#59415840)

        It just seems like a pissing contest to me. Nobody rational is going to think Azure is somehow great because Microsoft won a massive DoD contract.

        The DoD will get everything -- dedicated access to US based tech support, developers and all kinds of senior people that will make sure the DoD gets whatever it wants before it even wants it. That's what $10 billion buys you.

        Anybody who thinks that because MS can provide cloud services to the DoD it means a superior product to anyone else deserves what they get.

        • Anybody who thinks that because MS can provide cloud services to the DoD it means a superior product to anyone else deserves what they get.

          That's a good point, but I don't think "superior" is required for Azure to get more market share, "adequate" if the effort they put into it for example decreases their notorious widespread outages could make a significant difference. I remember reading that the Pentagon is a heavy user of Active Directory, and with a little bit of searching found for instance "237 Senio

          • What's surprising is that MS Cloud is doing so poorly considering how much Windows there is out there. There's a lot of uptake of Office 365, but not so much in the IAAS space.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by cusco ( 717999 )

            I'm sorry, but you put Walmart in the same sentence as "high quality", was that by accident?

            Full disclosure: I work at Amazon now (physical security, nothing to do with the retail part), and formerly worked at AWS. Also worked at a VAR who did security for the MS data centers.

            The reason why there is so much Windows installed at the Pentagram is because of NTSF, it's the only file system that could pass their extremely stringent testing for hosting classified data on a standalone machine. That was a big wi

            • I'm sorry, but you put Walmart in the same sentence as "high quality", was that by accident?

              Do you have any real experience with Walmart? My family has been buying from them since the 1970s, and their supply chain quality is very "high". Do a little searching and you're find out they're deadly serious about it, with rules and procedures to for example minimize bribery of their employees managing it. They don't sell counterfeit products, full stop. Whereas whatever the quality of AWS, the retail part of

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by cusco ( 717999 )

                I won't shop at Walmart because of their business practices. I've been in them three times, always to return a gift that broke or didn't work.

                I did a quick search to see what percentage of products sold on Amazon are counterfeit, and was honestly surprised to see Walmart listed along with them as selling counterfeit items online.
                https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
                Having said that, I'm sure that it's a much lower percentage, but the incidence of counterfeit items that are "Sold & Shipped By Amazon" is und

                • I think that linked article just mentioned Walmart without any specifics because its 3rd party sellers are obviously going include counterfeiters and politics. Whereas on Walmart.com if limit your search by checking the easy to find, no dark patterns Walmart.com supplier box the fraction of counterfeits is going to be minuscule, Amazon's "under 1%" including safety critical items is unacceptable.

                  Walmart really cares about its supply chain, has a handle on expiring merchandise...

                  Rant alert: don't ask me how

            • Full disclosure: I have professional experience with the AWS cloud provided to the government.

              It sucks. I mean, it's amazingly bad. It is years behind the outside commercial AWS in features, capabilities, and even bug fixes - and gets worse every day. Amazon devotes little time or effort to upgrading the government cloud (partially the government's fault, because they aren't willing to more money) and yet charges prices higher than the public commercial cloud. They don't even meet the basic expectation

            • First of all it's 'NTFS' and did you seriously just try to say that NTFS is more "secure" than other filesystems? HAHAHAHAHA. That is the stupidest and most hilarious thing I've heard in a long time. NTFS is a hideous filesystem that is notorious for data loss and corruption of which the likes no *nix file system has ever seen. You clearly know nothing of filesystems whatsoever and should probably just close your stupid face hole. No competent sysadmin would ever dream of using NTFS for anything important o

              • Re: (Score:3)

                by cusco ( 717999 )

                In 1998, when the selection was made, Linux was barely usable. It was a hobbyist operating system, not nearly ready for prime time. The Pentagon did extensive testing and there **WAS** no other journaling file system with granular file-level security out there at the time.

                "the likes no 'nix file system has ever seen."

                You don't know squat about the history of computers, I take it.

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by mysidia ( 191772 )

            companies in retail, especially suppliers to top notch competitor Walmart, can't use AWS for the obvious trust reasons.

            Oh... that's nonsense. There is no legitimate "trust" issue about Walmart or anyone else using AWS, Google cloud, etc, Due to the legal requirements as well as the security under which the cloud services operate that include data encryption and highly-stringent security controls and standards. More like: Walmart would not want to spend money with Amazon, because Amazon will conv

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by rtb61 ( 674572 )

      There can only be one reason for M$ to hit the ball out of the park, their lawyers found a massive extras with unlimited profit margins loop hole, that they can exploit for billions. Also they will offer something else, a backdoor into Windows anal probe 10, a war grade back door to crash all Windows anal probe 10 computers in a targeted country, something Amazon could not offer.

      There is also Huawei Linux which the US government brought to the fore by the really rather bullshit attack on China Tech Sector a

  • They should just let it go (Score:5, Informative)

    by melted ( 227442 ) on Thursday November 14, 2019 @08:39PM (#59415686) Homepage

    Pentagon already runs on MS, for them MS cloud is simply a less jarring choice, since they can also run Windows really well, offer Exchange etc etc.

    • Pretty much just this. They're paying for Microsoft licensing regardless, hosting on the AWS cloud doesn't save them anything.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cusco ( 717999 )

        You should check out 'serverless computing', 'availability regions', and other actual cloud computing concepts. The Pentagram isn't signing a contract to have someone host their data centers, they **need** to move away from the 20th century client-server model and wanted an actual cloud computing service. Unfortunately Azure's specialty is massive clusters of VMs, so if this contract goes ahead they're going to be stuck with their 1990s structure.

        • This is dead wrong. Microsoft products aren't designed on serverless architectures and that's what all of the DoD runs on already. In turn, Microsoft products don't fit the serverless paradigm, they might eventually on the Azure cloud, but they don't currently on AWS so the cost of implementing whatever they're doing would be FAR higher than 10b to switch to AWS. Additionally, there are security constraints. Who is the DoD going to trust more for physical security (the one thing Amazon guarantees on the

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by cusco ( 717999 )

            Well, first, not everything that DOD does runs under MS operating systems, they have a shit-ton of data managed by mainframes (IBM, I think, since they finally retired their herds of Vaxen), a workload that migrates very nicely to the cloud. Second, the Pentagram is moving away from the 1990s client-server architecture to thin clients and distributed computing, which MS does very poorly.

            • This is again wrong. The DoD has an obligation to only trust cloud (or other) infrastructure it can physically secure and audit the components of. That doesn't mesh well with Amazon because they are a standard Silicon Valley company: making constant changes to the software, making changes to the hardware configuration, and lying about intrusions. Microsoft has a strong track record of playing ball exactly as the DoD requires. With Amazon if they want on the cloud they get hosted alongside a bunch of civ

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by cusco ( 717999 )

                You really shouldn't comment when you really have no clue what you're talking about. I worked in the AWS SOC for four years, there have been **NO** intrusions. Government cloud hardware is isolated in GovCloud data centers. What "backdoors" are you babbling about? What changes to the software, other than security patches?

                So much stupid for such a short post.

    • I think it's crazy any government would put their admin software in the cloud. It's basically fascism. The running of the US government would be directly influenced by shareholders, not just the year of the software's release but because it's cloud software, so every year. On the flipside, we could see a situation where the cloud will be more obscure in the future. Some clients will be on forked cloud versions permanently. Maybe that would be for the least worse scenario with government using outsourced cl

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by melted ( 227442 )

        >> It's basically fascism

        Oh the good ol "everything I don't like is fascism" trope. Do you even understand the meaning of the word?

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Thursday November 14, 2019 @08:42PM (#59415694)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by maxrate ( 886773 )
      Good observation - I read the /. article citing Thousand Eyes monitoring. A client of mine is doing some Azure stuff from Canada to India and having great performance compared with their Amazon configuration they tell me. That said, I don't have the technical details of exactly what they are doing (knowing there are a lot of variables), but they are a pretty sharp bunch. They are really impressed with the performance on Azure.

      • Good observation - I read the /. article citing Thousand Eyes monitoring. A client of mine is doing some Azure stuff from Canada to India and having great performance compared with their Amazon configuration they tell me. That said, I don't have the technical details of exactly what they are doing (knowing there are a lot of variables), but they are a pretty sharp bunch. They are really impressed with the performance on Azure.

        I read the thousand eye thread also, Didn't it mention something about AWS having somewhat of a private backbone as well? Stronger in a different footprint? Didn't I also read that the contract was almost tailored to AWS and that MS will need to build a layer that basically mimics AWS over Azure just to accommodate?

        • I think that might be the problem. AWS is set up for companies. Maybe Azure is more agnostic without this layer and can be more tailored towards a government application. Maybe Amazon would have more control than Microsoft. And as you can imagine, governments shouldn't really be ceding control to companies. It becomes fascism. I'd best that they want less features in this case. Just a reliable secure hosting platform that they have as much control of as possible. I still can't understand why any government

    • I thought Amazon laid their own cables or at least co-owned cables with Google, Facebook and Microsoft, especially some of the deep-sea cables. All prime US companies with primairly US interests, especially in terms of ensuring they pay minimum tax in Europe!

  • Windows, licenses, RDP, Powershell, RPC over 139.... That is not a cloud server. Elastic compute, storage and K8's now that is cloud. Microsoft is the old mainframe dude just kicking it till he retires.... Any developer still targeting the desktop is an old fart, there are 3 billion phone/tablets out there, the web(standards based) and containers. None of those are a windows box. Corporate america is chained to win32, once that stuff is gone we will not need MS anymore. They will fade off into histor

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by maxrate ( 886773 )
      Probably why MS is getting into Linux so much these days
    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • But since the DoD isn't selling services to the mobile market, most of the advantages you mention mean exactly squat to them.

      I'm sure they could develop a Killer App if necessary - it's what they do, after all.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by cusco ( 717999 )

        The Toshiba Toughbook that someone in the platoon has to haul around and find somewhere to recharge is going away. They will be (maybe are already?) moving to tablets and other mobile devices, it's the only way to make the pack the poor grunt on the line has to carry bearable.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by EvilSS ( 557649 )

      Windows, licenses, RDP, Powershell, RPC over 139.... That is not a cloud server. Elastic compute, storage and K8's now that is cloud.

      You realize Azure has all those as well, right? You also realize AWS can host Windows workloads, yea?

  • Apparently you can't do that. Who knew?

    • Re:Trump told generals to reject the AMZN bid (Score:5, Funny)

      by fahrbot-bot ( 874524 ) on Thursday November 14, 2019 @09:15PM (#59415744)

      Apparently you can't do that. Who knew?

      "Many people didn't know that..."

      Trump called the Generals on their cell phone, while they were in a restaurant. It was a perfect call -- overheard by everyone there, including a few Ukrainians. He said the Pentagon would get their funding, but he'd like them to him a favor, though: reject Amazon's bis and cancel the Pentagon's subscription the The Washington Post. "A perfect call, folks. The best call - ever. Trust me."

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Tablizer ( 95088 )

      That allegation by Mattis certainly raises concern, especially since Trump has a history of mixing personal and governing goals.

      But in general (no pun intended) complex contracts will have plenty of issues to complain about due to the sheer size. Humans can't make a perfect large machine nor a perfect large contract selection process.

      But if the Military needs it, it needs it, and delaying too long could cause military problems. Early in the airline industry defense contractors would fight over flight-relate

  • It's the way of it (Score:3)

    by rmdingler ( 1955220 ) on Thursday November 14, 2019 @09:36PM (#59415782) Journal

    Every policy decision is ripe for derisive review. In politics, in business, and in the combination of the two that is the rewarding of lucrative gov't contracts.

    Bezos, and Amazon, can at the very least poorly pretend surprise at this outcome, given the current political environment.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

      Bezos, and Amazon, can at the very least poorly pretend surprise at this outcome, given the current political environment.

      That's what gives them the best shot at their appeal. Trump has actively spoken out against Amazon and Bezos, so it's easy for them to make the argument that he interfered with the bidding process for political reasons/gain. At the very least, even if Trump didn't make a specific request to the DoD, Amazon can argue that his public statements had undue influence in the decision-making process (proving it is another story). Government acquisitions are nominally supposed to be apolitical and based on merit

      • This is just standard federal contracting maneuvering. When you get into these major federal contracts the award is almost always contested internally through the procurement system and then in court. Its simply a case where the potential rewards mean it is always worth throwing some money at a suing if you think you have any chance at all. It would probably be easier to list the major federal procurement programs that didn't end up in court than the ones that did. This is literally just how the game is pl

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by Nidi62 ( 1525137 )

          This is just standard federal contracting maneuvering. When you get into these major federal contracts the award is almost always contested internally through the procurement system and then in court. Its simply a case where the potential rewards mean it is always worth throwing some money at a suing if you think you have any chance at all. It would probably be easier to list the major federal procurement programs that didn't end up in court than the ones that did. This is literally just how the game is played. Everyone involved fully expected whichever major company lost to sue.

          You're right, but in this particular case a company that got denied has physical evidence that the head of government actively does not like them and has acted against them in the past (USPO). That's why I think they have more ammunition than your usual denied contract suit. I still don't expect them to win (because the suing party almost never does), just that their case is stronger than usual.

  • Never gonna happen (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    The man who can do whatever he wants has spoken [cnbc.com]. It doesn't matter what any legal argument is made.

    Their best bet is to get onto FOX news and start kissing ass.

  • This should be secure (Score:3)

    by raind ( 174356 ) on Thursday November 14, 2019 @10:04PM (#59415822) Journal
    Why can't the agency that invented the internet keep it in house?
  • Microsoft has way more qualified talent to head up something like this.
  • Wait... What am I saying? This is M$! They're the big bad! I'm so confused. Slashdot, please bring back Borg Bill Gates and stop running ads/articles about M$ involvement in FOSS. Can't we just go back to when things were simpler? The complexity of real life scares me. I need a villain to hate to know I'm on the right side! I'm going to go post some anti-Bezos memes on Reddit to make me feel better.
    • Everyone involved with MS from back then has moved on. You might as well still be mad at Germany for WWII

      • Everyone involved with MS from back then has moved on. You might as well still be mad at Germany for WWII

        Can we still be mad at Hitler? Can we still be mad that misinformation was allowed to subvert an entire population?

      • Wow. Guess I didn't lay on the sarcasm thick enough. I thought the 'complexity of real life scares me' line would be a give away.

        I was commenting on how things have changed and how that will doubtless drive some desire to find a way to return to the simpler dichotomies of our collective younger years.

    • Sums up the cloud really. When Commodore Romanov Castro becomes the next CEO of Microsoft, they might feel differently.

  • Bezos's use of the Washington Post in a political manner wasn't the smartest business decision. Now they have to pay to litigate even if their allegations are correct.

    Since his acquisition of the paper, it's not as high a quality resource as it was previously.

  • That the DoD chose the morons responsible for the Windows 10 clusterfuck is both terrifying and a clear sign that someone was paid off.

        The thought of the US military relying on Microsoft's notoriously incompetent engineering should horrify even the most pedestrian minds.

  • I wish I could sue people who don't give me jobs a want.....

  • No shit (Score:3)

    by DrXym ( 126579 ) on Friday November 15, 2019 @05:31AM (#59416314)
    Of course they're going to sue. It was revealed recently that Trump leaned on Mattis to screw Amazon out of the contract and even if Mattis tried to do the thing by the book, who's to say his successors did?
  • I am tired of this growing nationwide trend of forcing an opinion or agenda on people. It is not ethical and also does not promote any healthy competition. Sometimes you need to take your lumps and own your losses. Its a part of growing and learning. Deal with it!

    • You realize that politics were actually on the other side here, right?

      It's been leaked that Trump told the Pentagon to not go with AWS because he doesn't like Bezos and the Washington Post.

  • Suing your potential customer into using your service is a great way to start a business relationship.

    • You've apparently not paid any attention to large-scale government contracting.

      This is absolutely normal.

  • Amazon will have to face the fact that the Fed will choose to spend where it wants. Appealing their decision will just force them to stalemate and not spend a dime. Amazon will have to eat that 10 billion dollar loss.

    • Amazon will have to face the fact that the Fed will choose to spend where it wants.

      No, actually they won't. Federal law requires keeping political opinions out of the contracting decision, and it's been leaked that Trump shoved political opinions right into this contracting decision.

      So it's likely to get overturned and have to be bid again.

  • Working in a government organization, I see this idiocy all the time. We spend countless wasted hours writing statements of work that match vendors so that some other shop doesn't come in and claim they can do better cheaper. I'm not arguing MS vs. Amazon here but know that we deal with this all the time.

    I remember one contract, where we had written it specifically for EMC to come in, provide consulting services, handle various processes, do custom work, and provide a finished product. Instead of giving th

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