'We Need to Inflict Pain': Mark Zuckerberg's War on Apple (morningstar.com) 153
When Tim Cook told an interviewer that Apple wouldn't get in a Facebook-style data-collection controversy, "Mr. Zuckerberg shot back that Mr. Cook's comments were 'extremely glib' and 'not at all aligned with the truth,'" reports the Wall Street Journal.
But "In private, Mr. Zuckerberg was even harsher. 'We need to inflict pain,' he told his team, for treating the company so poorly, according to people familiar with the exchange." It wasn't the first time — or the last — that Mr. Cook's comments and actions would leave Mr. Zuckerberg seething and, at times, plotting to get back at Apple...
Apple has positioned itself as the protector of digital privacy, upholding a greater good, while often leveling criticisms at Facebook's business model — without naming the company. All of that grates on Facebook, which sees Apple as overreaching in a way that threatens Facebook's existence, and hypocritical, including by doing extensive business is China where privacy is scarce. A 2017 attempt to address tensions through a face-to-face meeting between the two CEOs resulted in a tense standoff.
The trigger last month was a new privacy tool the iPhone maker plans to roll out that will further restrict Facebook's ability to collect data. Mr. Zuckerberg accused Apple on an earnings call of using its platform to interfere with how Facebook apps work. Mr. Cook, without naming Facebook, delivered an online speech condemning "conspiracy theories juiced by algorithms" — a jab that came just days after the Capitol riot.
At stake is how the internet will evolve and which companies will dominate it. Facebook and Apple's visions are diverging and increasingly incompatible. Facebook wants to capture and monetize eyeballs on every possible device and platform. Apple wants to draw users to its own hardware-centric universe, partly by marketing itself as a privacy-focused company. The outcome of the battle could affect what kinds of information users see when they browse the internet.
The war of words and ideas will ultimately play out in court, regulatory agencies and user decisions as both companies defend themselves against antitrust investigations. The potential regulatory settlements and legal decisions are likely to affect hundreds of millions of consumers' phones in coming years.
The Journal describes Zuckerberg as "a hacker-turned-Harvard-dropout who once touted the end of privacy as a social norm," and notes that Facebook assisted Epic in its lawsuit against Apple with supporting materials and documents, and "placed full-page ads on the matter in several newspapers, including the Journal. 'We're standing up to Apple for small businesses everywhere,' the ads said...."
"Some people familiar with Mr. Zuckerberg's thinking said he has taken Apple's broadsides personally, running the risk of distracting him at a time when Facebook is fighting many other battles in the U.S. and abroad over antitrust and content moderation..."
"Privately, he and other Facebook employees have been waging a campaign against Apple, asserting in meetings and communications with government officials, antitrust regulators and advertisers that the company is abusing its power and deserves more regulatory scrutiny, according to people familiar with the matter."
But "In private, Mr. Zuckerberg was even harsher. 'We need to inflict pain,' he told his team, for treating the company so poorly, according to people familiar with the exchange." It wasn't the first time — or the last — that Mr. Cook's comments and actions would leave Mr. Zuckerberg seething and, at times, plotting to get back at Apple...
Apple has positioned itself as the protector of digital privacy, upholding a greater good, while often leveling criticisms at Facebook's business model — without naming the company. All of that grates on Facebook, which sees Apple as overreaching in a way that threatens Facebook's existence, and hypocritical, including by doing extensive business is China where privacy is scarce. A 2017 attempt to address tensions through a face-to-face meeting between the two CEOs resulted in a tense standoff.
The trigger last month was a new privacy tool the iPhone maker plans to roll out that will further restrict Facebook's ability to collect data. Mr. Zuckerberg accused Apple on an earnings call of using its platform to interfere with how Facebook apps work. Mr. Cook, without naming Facebook, delivered an online speech condemning "conspiracy theories juiced by algorithms" — a jab that came just days after the Capitol riot.
At stake is how the internet will evolve and which companies will dominate it. Facebook and Apple's visions are diverging and increasingly incompatible. Facebook wants to capture and monetize eyeballs on every possible device and platform. Apple wants to draw users to its own hardware-centric universe, partly by marketing itself as a privacy-focused company. The outcome of the battle could affect what kinds of information users see when they browse the internet.
The war of words and ideas will ultimately play out in court, regulatory agencies and user decisions as both companies defend themselves against antitrust investigations. The potential regulatory settlements and legal decisions are likely to affect hundreds of millions of consumers' phones in coming years.
The Journal describes Zuckerberg as "a hacker-turned-Harvard-dropout who once touted the end of privacy as a social norm," and notes that Facebook assisted Epic in its lawsuit against Apple with supporting materials and documents, and "placed full-page ads on the matter in several newspapers, including the Journal. 'We're standing up to Apple for small businesses everywhere,' the ads said...."
"Some people familiar with Mr. Zuckerberg's thinking said he has taken Apple's broadsides personally, running the risk of distracting him at a time when Facebook is fighting many other battles in the U.S. and abroad over antitrust and content moderation..."
"Privately, he and other Facebook employees have been waging a campaign against Apple, asserting in meetings and communications with government officials, antitrust regulators and advertisers that the company is abusing its power and deserves more regulatory scrutiny, according to people familiar with the matter."
Two companies I don't like (Score:5, Funny)
At war with one another, how awesome is that?
Re: Two companies I don't like (Score:3, Funny)
Re: Two companies I don't like (Score:5, Insightful)
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They're too busy fighting with Amazon (cloud) and Microsoft (news in Australia)
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Google is still trying to figure out how much they can get away with without seeming as evil as Facebook. They haven't even updated their apps on iOS since Apple required them to disclose what information they're collecting on their users, so obviously they have a lot to hide.
It's basically about informed consent. If you believe Facebook and Google should be allowed to track you and take all your data to sell to the highest bidder without telling you, you're on Facebook/Google's side. If you think users sho
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Nah, as much as I hate billionaires and tech monopolisits, Facebook is the true evil villain in this story, even more than Google/Alphabet.
Epic, is only posturing that they're the good guy, like facebook has against Apple so they can make more money from Apple customers. Which they have a point but you get none of those savings so they aren't earning any brownie points with the public.
At best, Apple's only guilty activity is protecting privacy perhaps TOO hard and not giving the customer the option to turn
Re: Two companies I don't like (Score:3, Interesting)
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Apple wants to do whatever it needs to, to be a major player in China. The hooks and mechanisms they deploy give them a paternalistic role as "protector" of their user that can be directed whichever way is needed in local markets. Thus, in China, 'safe' as necessary to work with the CCP.
Re: Two companies I don't like (Score:5, Interesting)
Apple wants to do whatever it needs to, to be a major player in China. The hooks and mechanisms they deploy give them a paternalistic role as "protector" of their user that can be directed whichever way is needed in local markets. Thus, in China, 'safe' as necessary to work with the CCP.
Funny how the hatred of Apple is so strong in some people that they side with Facebook for the right to track you all over the internet, because as we all know - Apple BAD! That makes Facebook the guys in white hats, doing God's work. What strange bedfellows we make sometimes.
And yet - here's the secret a housewife in Nebraska found out that the big boys don't want you to know:
There is another obscure player, Android, that is hard to find, but they have all the features that people want. Google mail, a play store where you can get programs that track you, and they play well with Zuckerberg's fine Facebook app.
Anyhow, if you search hard enough, you can find the Volkstelefon devices.
Yeah, that's sarcasm, but why people side with Facebook makes me think they either don't know the level of intrusion they perform, or they support it.
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It almost like people have their own reasons to hate apple and other people have their heads so far up apples ass they can not understand that simple fact..
Can you show on the doll where Apple hurt you, child?
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You can side-load whatever apps you want onto an Android phone.
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All valid points, but what I don't understand is why people who want all this don't just buy an Android phone.
You can side-load whatever apps you want onto an Android phone.
Exactly. How about we take this one step further, and demand that everyone has to be tracked by facebook, even if they don't have a phone. I mean if a phone and operating system manufacturer must allow themselves to be tracked, then it isn't much of a flight of fancy to demand that Facebook must be allowed to track everyone regardless.
I don't recall that Facebook was the owner of the intertoobz, and there is a whole line of devices that will allow people who want tracked to be tracked. Google and Faceboo
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Tribalism predates the political split we've had in the US. Mac vs PC camps, and fan bois of each who still can't get over the thought that anyone would want to support the other side...much like sports fanatics who support their local team (composed of players who change teams every other season).
Re: Two companies I don't like (Score:5, Insightful)
There are no good guys in this story.
Facebook wants to spy on users so they can monetize their data.
Apple wants to keep customers in the walled garden so that they can monetize their activity.
Both companies see you as a profit center, and give no fucks about you. They will only pretend to care so much as they have to in order to continue milking you.
There is one 'not bad' guy though in this story (Score:3)
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they monetise your act of purchasing things in the same way a supermarket does.
Well, that's scary as the supermarket moves to becoming data driven powerhouses focused on monotising our acts of purchasing things. I thought Apple was about privacy.
https://www.thestar.com/busine... [thestar.com]
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How is Apple monetizing users activity here?
Apple's Walled Garden is a way to monetize all user activity.
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Actually, Epic is trying to stop Apple from taking 30% of the revenue from Epic's customers. If I want to buy something from Epic, Apple forcing themself in the middle of that transaction doesn't make me Apple's customer.
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Hell, I'll go one further here. Apple shouldn't have any geofences what-so-ever. I don't care if something is illegal in one country or doesn't have the rights in another, if I want to play a game or watch a video in a language I do not understand and pay the foreign cost for it, that is not Apple's problem.
I bet those countries care.
Turn the privacy scrub on, and you will only be able to one-time purchase the app while Apple will keep no tracking of your purchase.
What country do you live in where a corporation doesn't need to keep track of commerce transactions? How does the government reconcile taxes? There actually are things corporations do that are in the public interest, because otherwise in this example you're asking for unfettered money laundering, among other things. Sure $1 ain't much but you exchange it 100,000 times and you got $100,000.
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Re:Two companies I don't like (Score:5, Funny)
It's like a cat-fight between one's ex's
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It's like a cat-fight between one's ex's
You do, or did at least, have terrible taste in partners. Still entertaining though.
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Yeah, the annoyingly bossy one and the outright psychopath.
Re:Two companies I don't like (Score:5, Insightful)
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The more of their hoarded cash they spend fighting the better, even if it has to go through some asshole lawyers' assholes in the process. These corporations have literal cash reserves that are doing no one any good while not being spent. Apple in particular now has almost $200B in actual cash money. Currency isn't currency while not being spent, it has to move to earn its name. While it's not being spent, it does no one any good.
Re:Two companies I don't like (Score:5, Insightful)
Facebook and Apple's visions are diverging and increasingly incompatible.
In other news, Fords vision is diverging from Wallmarts! Exxons vision is diverging from Monsantos!
Apple sells luxury gadgets. Facebook... uh... I don't know... provides a source of misery and unhappiness? Why should they have similar visions when they are not in the same business at all? Sure, there is some overlap in Facetime vs WhatsApp and they both compete for eyeballs in a way but you could just as well claim that Ford competes with hands-free car phones and eyeballs (on the road)... Fords vision is diverging from Facebooks!
Re:Two companies I don't like (Score:5, Insightful)
Facebook... uh... I don't know... provides a source of misery and unhappiness?
Plus a temporary relief from that, which you need to keep getting. In other words: They're druglords.
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Being better than Usenet is a pretty low bar :).
I'm interested in what makes them superior though. Genuinely interested because I find Facebook to be a real barrier and I'm in a few groups myself (work and technical groups). Maybe I'm just missing something.
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Weird, this comment was modded overrated. I guess by someone who didn't use USENET? I've used it basically every way you can use it... rn, trn, nn, GUI clients on every major OS and some minor ones, even was a UUCP node for a while. And only by the very end did anything happen anywhere near to realtime. But you had to wait for some content to make a whole bunch of hops to get to you, so it would regularly arrive out of order.
Re:Two companies I don't like (Score:5, Interesting)
Better still any war over privacy and advertising will lead to the rapid development of countermeasures to protect us. The more Facebook pushes it the harder the push-back will be, and if we play this right we could all end up better protected from them.
Re: Two companies I don't like (Score:4, Interesting)
If you donâ(TM)t like Apple, fine, you can avoid them by not buying their hardware.
If you donâ(TM)t like Facebook, tough shit, you canâ(TM)t avoid them. They have their tentacles in everything, even if itâ(TM)s seemingly unrelated to FB.
Anything that helps me opt out of Facebook sounds good to me. And Google and others too. Their parasitic business models are a new phenomenon and thereâ(TM)s no reason that they have to exist at any cost. Unfortunately laws like the GDPR donâ(TM)t go far enough or are being affective enough.
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If you donÃ(TM)t like Facebook, tough shit, you canÃ(TM)t avoid them. They have their tentacles in everything, even if itÃ(TM)s seemingly unrelated to FB.
Facebook was difficult to avoid for a moment there, as everyone seemed to want to use them for signon. But that trend has faded; I haven't seen a Facebook signon in AGES except in cases where there are lots of other options. I also have seen literally zero negative results from blocking XSS involving Facebook. It has literally never prevented me from using a site for any reason other than not being able to sign in, which as I stated is simply no longer an issue.
It's therefore quite easy to avoid Facebook. A
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Facebook builds "shadow profiles" of people who don't use their service, buying PII from other sources and combining it with what you aren't doing on platforms they are able to monitor.
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Yes, but if you have their web services blocked, that has nothing to do with your browsing activity.
Re: Two companies I don't like (Score:2)
Facebook sign-on? Surely it's not websites that are the problem because this can be blocked but the Facebook SDK embedded apps which cannot. If you're not seeing the sign-on, either you've blocked it or they've found another way to monetise your activity
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I wouldn't knowingly use any app which uses any Facebook SDK. Facebook has proven themselves to be untrustworthy when it comes to running code on users' phones. I have literally never seen an app that asks me to log into Facebook, except alternate apps for Facebook which don't use any Facebook SDKs.
Re: Two companies I don't like (Score:2)
Does the SDK require anything user visible? Not my line of work, but I could imagine it could hook in in other ways, perhaps related to serving ads in an other wise free app.
Re: Two companies I don't like (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Two companies I don't like (Score:2)
Use Safari instead? ;)
Things to come (Score:5, Funny)
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Yes, he already worked in the previous administration under an alias. Steven Miller is Mark Zuckerberg. He fooled us by wearing a suit!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/w... [wikimedia.org]
https://upload.wikimedia.org/w... [wikimedia.org]
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Honestly seems like Facebook has more to lose (Score:5, Interesting)
Facebook is pretty well integrated Into IOS out of the box... it doesn't have to be that way. How much pain can Facebook inflict before Apple pulls them out the default OS install, and is a really stickler for rule following with any Facebook app... or for that matter, any application that includes any Facebook SDK. In case you didn't know that is a LOT of apps.
Re:Honestly seems like Facebook has more to lose (Score:5, Interesting)
FB was integrated into iOS a few years ago along with other social media companies.
That was dropped a few major iOS version ago (the social.framwork was officially deprecated in the iOS 11 I believe).
iOS was pretty crap at sharing screen shots, photos file etc until they finally got around to implementing a generic sharing pop-up and API (iOS 6 I think?).
I had integrated those social media libs just to be able to share but joyfully ripped them out when the sharing pop-up was fully supported by the social media companies apps.
Re:Honestly seems like Facebook has more to lose (Score:5, Insightful)
I've never seen FB or any other anti-social media platform on any of my iDevices (since iPhone 4s) as part of the default install.
That was one of the reasons for me switching from Android. Far too many Android devices had them baked in and unable to be removed. FB was particularly troublesome in that even if I killed all the FB related processes, the came back and sucked the battery life dry. This happened on both Samsung and HTC phones.
All of FB, Twitter, WhatsApp etc are totally blocked at my home firewall (both incoming and outgoing). Living in a social-media free zone is enlightening. Think of all that time I get to do other things like cooking, writing books! Lovely jubbly.
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Re:Honestly seems like Facebook has more to lose (Score:5, Informative)
"Lovely Jubbly" is also a slang term. Watch pretty well any episode of the BBC series, 'Only Fools and Horses' and you'll hear it.
In this context, it means great, wonderful.
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While my really cheap Android phone (Moto E) came with Facebook, it easily deleted, never to return. You pay more money, you get better spyware I guess.
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Make that two of us. I've just looked on my Realmi and there it was, "was" being the operative word.
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"How much pain can Facebook inflict before Apple pulls them out the default OS install..."
Perhaps a lot, since Apple cares what its customers want and not all of them want what Apple tells them to, like you do.
"...and is a really stickler for rule following with any Facebook app... or for that matter, any application that includes any Facebook SDK. In case you didn't know that is a LOT of apps."
In other words, behave corruptly by creating an uneven playing field in their App Store. Funny how this kind of s
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Anybody who wants Facebook already has Facebook on their phone. And if Facebook decided to pull their app from the app store, for example, it's just a stupid front end for their web site anyway so there would be a hundred thousand developers falling over themselves to replace it.
What Facebook *can* do is exactly what they're doing: trying to get antitrust investigators interested in Apple. It's an awfully dangerous strategy though, because antitrust is already really interested in Facebook.
We may hope that
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Come off it, Apple fanboys are just that, they'll eat any turd Tim Cook shits into their mouth. And Facebook are hardly in any position to complain about anti-competitive shenanigans.
pot meet kettle (Score:5, Insightful)
, asserting in meetings and communications with government officials, antitrust regulators and advertisers that the company is abusing its power and deserves more regulatory scrutiny,
absolutely true, however the same applies equally or perhaps more so to facebook.
“A Pox on both their Houses!” (Score:5, Insightful)
Neither of these companies have your best interests at heart. They are literally fighting because each want to have exclusive access to abuse you. And obviously the rest of the unmentioned oligopolies - Google, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. - are in the mix too.
They all need much tighter regulation - all of them.
There is a large difference (Score:5, Interesting)
There two companies belong to two very distinct groups. One group of companies treats users as product to sell to its customers and other group of companies treats is users as its customers. I know that if I am not the customer, then for sure they don't have my interest at heart. So when it is a choice between FB+Google+Twitter+TV Networks+Newspapers on one side and Apple+Microsoft+Sony+Netflix on the other side, I know which side I am choosing. Even though personally 20 years ago, I used to love Google and hate Microsoft. But times have changed.
Re:There is a large difference (Score:5, Insightful)
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Yes, Apple wants to get you to buy as much as possible of their stuff, using every trick in the book to make you open your wallet (planned obsolescence, restricting features to new devices without necessity, restricting how you can use their products so you are forced to buy things via them,...), but at least the money flow is clearly from their customers to them. You know exactly how you are being screwed.
I much prefer that over companies that pretend to give you everything for free but then sneakily harvest all sorts of personal information about you and sell it to anyone who wants to pay for it. The extent of this problem has become frighteningly visible with all the popups about personal data that are now mandated in Europe. "Can we get this data, and sell it to these partners, and this data too, and this, and these partners, and this 'legitimate interest',...". On almost every friggin site you visit, and hundreds of "partners" for each one! Hell no, you creeps, stop stalking me and watching my every move, how can anybody find this even remotely acceptable!
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China the land mass is not evil. But their government makes even ours look reasonable and law-abiding.
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Microsoft is a bit distinct here, as they are also gathering large amounts of data about you. Microsoft Windows (as a service) has essentially become free, if you ever bought a license years ago. Just like Facebook is free to use.
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I agree with this entirely.
I think that all services by law should give you their price. Then you can choose to pay for it with your data (with the value of your data shown) or you can pay for it directly. With Netflix, Sony, Apple, Microsoft etc I already know the price. With FB, Google, Twitter etc the price is hidden.
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Apple doesn't treat you as a customer, they treat you as cattle. Oh sure, you are free range cattle, allowed to frolic around the meadow, but you are still getting milked. That electric fence is still keeping you locked in, and Apple still gets to decide what you can and can't do.
Your prison may seem quite pleasant but it's still a prison, and one that you actually paid to enter.
Re:There is a large difference (Score:5, Interesting)
What you missed in your analogy are the following:
(1) That electric fence also keeps the predators out. You are right, I learned long ago that my parents and most of my relatives are cattle in the Internet world, just waiting to be devoured by wolves. The protection they receive by being behind that fence has saved both them and me countless hours of frustration, and unknown amounts of financial loss. Better to be milked than to be eaten alive.
(2) You willingly enter that meadow, and you can leave it again at any time. Anyone who wants to head out for the open range need only buy an Android device (which I have repeatedly heard on Slashdot are superior to iOS devices in every respect) and start side-loading apps.
I'll take the evils of Apple over the evils of Facebook any day. Apple just wants to sell me stuff to make money; Facebook wants to put me at the throats of my friends, neighbors, and fellow citizens, hating them for being different from me, in order to make money.
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I think "dog-cow" may have been offended by what you said about cattle.
The Dogcow is an Apple fan mascot from way, way back. IIRC there was a toy to turn the wait pointer into a backflipping dogcow and its creator tag was MOOF. Even without its posting history, A user with the name Dog-cow would be an obvious iFanboy.
Re:There is a large difference (Score:5, Interesting)
I agree in general with you but I would put Microsoft on the side with Facebook because Microsoft still treats users of its' software as huge sources of data that they don't require.
There's a third side in this exchange or battle, open source. It has struggled for a long time to gain popularity and it has in some areas. Open source products are used by both of the other sides. Perhaps it is time to extend the licenses of some open source projects to include provisions that prohibit the use of the product to gather data in the spirit of open source principles. (Let the lawyers figure out how to explain not taking more data than needed just because it's available, taking data on users that don't have accounts, etc).
I'm afraid that the openness and spirit. that was seen in the first ten to 15 years of the Web (and on the Internet as a whole until this time) is disappearing. My first experience of the Web was in 1994 and it was amazing. Of course it was nothing like today but in a way it was more magical. One was able to email someone halfway around the world with a question and they would likely respond, even about something trivial. Today your message would likely end up in a spam folder. There was a spirit of togetherness that has gone missing. (As an aside, I have this feeling in the 3D printing community and it's wonderful to find that again.)
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There two companies belong to two very distinct groups. One group of companies treats users as product to sell to its customers and other group of companies treats is users as its customers. I know that if I am not the customer, then for sure they don't have my interest at heart. So when it is a choice between FB+Google+Twitter+TV Networks+Newspapers on one side and Apple+Microsoft+Sony+Netflix on the other side, I know which side I am choosing. Even though personally 20 years ago, I used to love Google and hate Microsoft. But times have changed.
Good luck when your "side", is sold.
While I agree with your stance on this, I also know and respect business first.
You should too. Times have changed, and they will continue to change. Your stance, is barely justified today. What say you, tomorrow?
Difference may not be so great... (Score:3)
Re:“A Pox on both their Houses!” (Score:4, Interesting)
That's not what they are fighting over. They are fighting over whether Facebook has the right to abuse Apple's customers. Note that I use the word "customers" deliberately here. Apple's customers are Facebook's product.
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That's not what they are fighting over. They are fighting over whether Facebook has the right to abuse Apple's customers. Note that I use the word "customers" deliberately here. Apple's customers are Facebook's product.
Apple's customers are also Apples product that they sell to app developers. Why else do you think they try so hard to not let you use non approved products/stores/marketplaces etc.
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Apple's customers are also Apples product that they sell to app developers. Why else do you think they try so hard to not let you use non approved products/stores/marketplaces etc.
For the same reason they made the Mac closed back in '84, and why the ended the clones years later?
Re: “A Pox on both their Houses!” (Score:5, Insightful)
Facebook has a shadow profile of you, even if you do not and have never used their site.
That's the difference. Hate Apple? Never bought anything from them? Fine, they don't know who you are. But Facebook will keep watching you because they have tendrils in so many tracking services.
It's worth picking sides and not trying to claim some sort of moral equivalence between the two companies. Facebook is worse by virtually any measure.
It's not tech companies getting to much power (Score:3)
We're all focused on FB & Twitter because, well, a bunch of those billionaires are annoyed that they used to have completely control of media by virtue of owning all the radio, TV and news papers and that social media decentralized that and took a bit of their power.
So those billionaires are using their media to tell us to go after tech companies. But thing is there are way, way worse companies making you
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But I think it might be worth digging in to the observation you make where you write,
"We're all focused on FB & Twitter because, well, a bunch of those billionaires are annoyed that they used to have completely control of media by virtue of owning all the radio, TV and news papers and that social media decentralized that and took a bit of their power. "
You go on to cite lots of other excell
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Well said.
The playing field is similarly concerning (Score:2)
But FB and Twitter are, like much of other for-profit information media unfortunately, both sources and amplifiers of agitprop, outright misinformation, and worse. Not small potatoes at all.
i have words for Mark Zuckerberg (Score:5, Informative)
Why ? (Score:2)
Of course its personal, Zuckerberg is doing what he does for personal gain, he isnt trying to save the whales.
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Because money (Score:2)
I don't see why Zuckerberg would make such a fuss (Score:3)
Facebook's and Google's business model is advertising. If you look for something, they will show you relevant ads. And they can show you ads, because you use their platform. Gathering large amounts of data about people is an added benefit, through with they can target their audience a bit better. It is debatable by how much. They are monopolies anyways. Almost all online advertising dollars pass through them.
Facebook can still analyze every single click you do on their site, no matter what Apple does. Even if Apple was to restrict all access to data. That Zuckerberg would make a big deal out of this at all is a bit weird. And thus also disconcerting to me. What am I missing here?
Re:I don't see why Zuckerberg would make such a fu (Score:5, Insightful)
Facebook's and Google's business model is advertising. If you look for something, they will show you relevant ads. And they can show you ads, because you use their platform. Gathering large amounts of data about people is an added benefit, through with they can target their audience a bit better.
Wrong way round. Facebook and Google's business model is gathering large amounts of data about people, and making money from that somehow. Up until now the "somehow" has been advertising.
The truly chilling bit is that once you have enough data about people, it's far easier to optimise the audience for the ads than the ads for the audience. Turn your audience into gullible extremists on a hair trigger, and they'll click whatever you show them.
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Facebook and Google both figured out that they could show you *more* relevant adds (or at least they could convince their customers they were doing that) if they could find out what you were doing when you weren't using their platforms, as well as when you were. Apple has been pissing off Facebook by implementing anti-tracking features on the iPhone.
For example, Mozilla called on Apple to periodically reset the tracking ID your phone reports to advertisers. Apple decided to go one better and let people opt
Re: (Score:2)
To be precise, the only thing evil about China is its Communist Party who runs the country without opposition - not because they're the people's choice, but because opposition parties are outlawed.
They're also the government that caused the largest number of premature deaths of their own people. Innocent Chinese citizens.
So I'm glad you spell out the obvious.
In a battle between Facebook and Apple (Score:3, Insightful)
Iâ(TM)ll vote for privacy any day. Delete Facebook. Yesterday.
Re: (Score:2)
Here I am hoping for mutually assured destruction...
Go Go Go!! (no, not the language) (Score:2)
This almost made me run out and buy a Apple product. Almost, but not quite.
See, I like shiny cookware. Soothy pots and kettles both make my hands dirty (gosh, I really hope I got that idiom right without references to color...)
Horseshit summary. (Score:2)
Nowhere in that article does the phrase âoewe need to inflict painâ exist.
Inflammatory clickbait is the real enemy.
It's normal (Score:2)
Such people don't have the ego to handle business.
Leave your ego at home and do some business instead of spending billions to feed lawyers for no good reason.
Censorship Police In-Fighting (Score:2)
Zuckerberg is not helping himself. (Score:2)
Install FB Purity now (Score:2)
Inflict pain back by installing the FB Purity extension and hit him in the wallet.
Locked up (Score:2)
Zuckerberg is going to be lucky if he doesn't end up in prison in the next two years - it is more likely than not that the Cambridge Analytical theft of personal data was the tip of the iceberg.
Fling some furniture (Score:2)
How to hurt Apple while doing good (Score:2)
Apple "evil" business is selling you disposable, overpriced hardware.
Facebook has a social network and a marketplace.
Encourage people to buy used instead of going to the Apple store, create a network of repair techniciens, promote the right to repair and third party modifications... They may lose some ad revenue from sellers of disposable hardware but they could make up in commissions from their marketplace.
It is unlikely to happen like that, but I can dream...
There's more than one propaganda campaign going (Score:2)
Another propaganda campaign is trying to tie together Epic's campaign against Apple to Facebook's. Because the argument against allowing alternative app stores is of course a lot weaker than against allowing Apple to set its own privacy policy.
Facebook is doing it to hope to tie their fortunes to a stronger case. Apple fanboys are doing it to get rid of the cognitive dissonance of defending an undefendable monopoly, by just attacking Facebook instead and pretending they've made an argument against Epic. App
ohhh.. (Score:2)
As the monsters battle (Score:2)
Innocent bystanders (users) will be forced to sit by helplessly, much like San Francisco in Godzilla (2014), while Apple and Facebook battle, destroying everything in their paths.
Easy answer Zuck, stop making an iPhone app... (Score:2)
... I'm guessing maybe 10% of iPhone users might switch to Androids because they love FB so much, but probably a larger number of Apple owners will just stop using FB,
See, no more overlap. Problem solved.
I don't see the problem (Score:2)