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Transportation The Almighty Buck

France Is Giving Citizens $3,000 To Get Rid of Their Car and Get an Electric Bike (thenextweb.com) 178

France is offering residents $2,975 to trade in their gas-powered vehicle for an electric bicycle. The Next Web reports: Earlier this week, lawmakers in France approved the measure in a preliminary vote. The French Federation of Bicycle Users claims that if France does go ahead with the scheme, it would be the first nation in the world to give people money for old cars to put towards new electric bicycles, Reuters reports. However, the organization must be leaving out crucial details as to how it reached that conclusion as there have been other similar schemes.

For example, as Martti Tulenheimo, chief specialist at the Finnish Cyclists' Federation points out, Finland has a similar rebate which citizens have used to fund more than 2,000 ebikes, 1,000 new low emission cars, and 100 public transport tickets. Lithuania also offered such a scheme last year. The nation's Environmental Project Management Agency (APVA) offered residents $1,200 if they traded in their old cars. The money could then be used against anything from escooters, to ebikes, to public transport tickets. The scheme was considered a success with more than 8,500 people applying for the grant.

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France Is Giving Citizens $3,000 To Get Rid of Their Car and Get an Electric Bike

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  • by h33t l4x0r ( 4107715 ) on Thursday April 15, 2021 @05:05AM (#61275708)
    For an optional basket in the front for baguettes.
  • As people are on average too fat and as we move too little creating the next wave of illnesses this is a great solution for these problems also.
    • The French have the lowest obesity rate in the OECD. It's hardly a "problem" for them. But I'm going to guess that the few people who are obese in France won't be the kind to buy a bike.

    • As people are on average too fat and as we move too little creating the next wave of illnesses this is a great solution for these problems also.

      Speaking of moving too little, let me know how many fat people you have to race in order to beat them to the next ebike trade-in.

      The overwhelming majority of obesity, is by choice. And a $3K refund ain't gonna cut it. People would pay $3K in tax penalties just to not change their lifestyle.

      • by dfghjk ( 711126 )

        "The overwhelming majority of obesity, is by choice."

        Citation please.

        Are you a child?

        • Why do you need citations for no brainers?

          Most obese simply have bad eating habits. People who have wrong gut bacteria or genetic conditions are simply rare.

        • "The overwhelming majority of obesity, is by choice."

          Citation please.

          Are you a child?

          First off, this isn't even debatable. Even children understand how child obesity happens.

          Lastly, I'm tired of this lazy excuse. Humans did learn shit before a URL was invented, and you don't have casual conversations with people IRL and demand evidence with every claim. Do your own fucking homework if you're the one demanding the obvious. You act as if fast food and human laziness are unproven theories.

  • by bluescrn ( 2120492 ) on Thursday April 15, 2021 @05:10AM (#61275720)
    Car theft is taken seriously. Bike theft isn't, and there's an epidemic of it.

    Until that changes, or until vastly more secure bike storage is available, a bike (especially a pricey e-bike) isn't a reliable replacement for a car.
    • Sorry but horseshit. Bike theft isn't taken seriously *BY THE VICTIMS* in France. No one even reports it to the police. Hell the only reason I'd file a police report is so the insurance company would buy me another bike.

      You compared it to cars, so you do have insurance right?

      Yes, I've had my bike stolen before. No I didn't care, I had a new bike with zero expense within a week and no I didn't go crying back to a car as a result.

      • by Plammox ( 717738 ) on Thursday April 15, 2021 @05:52AM (#61275812)
        I went to a bike shop last week to order a new bike. Stock: none. Delivery date: Unknown. I'll get it in September. Maybe. Maybe the price will have changed as well. People are buying bikes like never before. Also: Luxembourg is giving up to 50%/up to 600 EUR support for *any* bike purchase. Now would be a good time not to have your bike stolen.
        • I have a few friends that all own bike shops, and they were largely sold out of 2021 stock last December. Reports I've seen say there's around a 300 day lead time to build a complete bike. Parts are scarce, containers are at the dock unloaded, the supply chain is still hopelessly fucked. Some shops won't sell you parts unless they're installed AT the shop—they don't want people taking bike chains and selling them for quadruple the price on eBay and leaving no stock for their own customers. It's wild.

          • I am not surprised that was true 5 months ago but a bit surprised it is now. Lead time of a year is a long time, long enough to shift production somewhat. I think the USA is going to reap a substantial economic advantage for rolling out the vaccine so quickly. I got my first shot of Pfizer yesterday, pretty stoked.
        • Check out decathlon, french company but stores world wide (no international site so you'll have to find your own local).

        • Now would be a good time not to have your bike stolen.

          I mean if you want a new bike sure. Go to a thrift shop or a second hand bike shop. I'm sure you can swallow dignity for a couple of days while while you wait for your online order to get delivered. There's no bike shortage, there just aren't many bikes standing around in showrooms which are largely unused due to constant lockdown issues.

          These kinds of promotions aren't new. In the Netherlands and Denmark bicycles are 100% tax deductible. In Germany many work contracts will provide you with a fund for bicyc

      • First time I've heard of people not caring when they were robbed. Not sure what's worse, the rampant theft or the rampant apathy.
        • There is a big difference between theft and robbed.
          You might consult a dictionary.

          In case you plan either of the two: you should also check your local laws regarding it.

        • First time I've heard of people not caring when they were robbed. Not sure what's worse, the rampant theft or the rampant apathy.

          #1: Insurance usually has a deductable that would likely exceed the cost of the average stolen bike.

          #2: Insurance companies can and will raise your rates well beyond the out-of-pocket cost if you dare to actually use the fucking thing.

          In other words, that's not rampant apathy. It's called greed and corruption.

        • First time I've heard of people not caring when they were robbed.

          There's things worth giving a shit about and things not worth giving a shit about. A completely minor inconvenience which was resolved with almost zero expense (a phone call, and a metro ticket home and a completely irrelevant deductible about as expensive as a night out with dinner and drinks.) is not worth caring about. That isn't apathy, that is saving all my fucks for a time when they actually need to be given. It is also the fundamental purpose behind having insurance.

          I lied a bit. I do own a car (thou

    • by idji ( 984038 )
      I ride my bike 9 miles to my office each day and store it in the corner of a room right by the back entrance - completely safe. And then ride the 9 miles home. The park garage of my work is locked 24/7 and needs a key to enter.
  • A lot of people keep running old cars just for commuting or going to the local shops, the sort of thing that could be replaced by an electric bike. As long as they combine this with a serious effort to make towns and cities better for cyclists it should work well.

    • Great idea indeed. The only downside of this kind of positive incentivization to move away from bad behavior is that you're putting people that have already switched (or never owned a car in the first place) at a financial disadvantage. The unintended side effect of this kind of policy is that it motivates people to stick with undesirable behavior until you pay them to give it up. To avoid this you should also reward the people that already display the behavior you want to incentivize.
      • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

        Yeah, it needs to be thought out. Some people held on to older, dirtier cars in the hope of getting some kind of scrappage scheme.

      • you're putting people that have already switched (or never owned a car in the first place) at a financial disadvantage.
        No you are not.
        The first group exchanges a car for a bike, the second group does nothing.
        None of both a financial gain. Unless you have the edge case were one wanted to sell the car, but never wanted a bike and can now resell his car.

        The unintended side effect of this kind of policy is that it motivates people to stick with undesirable behavior until you pay them to give it up.
        A once in hi

    • A lot of people keep running old cars just for commuting or going to the local shops, the sort of thing that could be replaced by an electric bike. As long as they combine this with a serious effort to make towns and cities better for cyclists it should work well.

      While I do hope you are right, I don't expect this to really have that much of an impact. People know that cars have quite an advantage of convenience beyond a bike well beyond the cost of gas (air bags and seatbelts for safety, environmental protection from rain/sun/cold, capable of transporting multiple people and hauling large loads, etc.) The ratio of car:bike riders is quite large for many reasons.

      I also worry about safety. Eventually streets will be filled with new electric cars designed with geniu

      • You gotta be kidding. Self-driving cars are the exact thing that will make cycling to work safe enough for me to resume (if they get popular enough, soon enough). Our streets are littered with ghostbikes [wikipedia.org] which are little shrines to cyclists that got mowed down.

        Yeah, yeah, the Uber thing that one time. But I would trust the Waymo over an unknown human driver to not run me over, right now.

  • Driving culture (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Luckyo ( 1726890 ) on Thursday April 15, 2021 @05:47AM (#61275804)

    Considering how people drive in France, that is one way to solve global warming by getting enough people killed in traffic.

    Not a joke. I've been in gnarly situations in my life, including things like almost blowing myself up once when setting up a demolition charge back in the military when I was still too close and getting concussed. That was scary.

    But none of that has anything on driving in France. I got almost ran off the road by a bus with French plates on the literal French-German border, and that was a just a start. Driving in Paris was less driving and more vehicular combat. And don't even get me started on how French park. Let's just say that when I saw that, I understood why most cars appeared to have significant bumper damage on front and rear bumpers.

    • by foobang ( 945025 )

      I live in a Paris suburb, I'd say it's a matter of habit, if You drive there daily basis it's not a big deal. But once You get a couple of weeks off (in France we have 5 weeks of holidays) and drive on the countryside and Then get back in the capital, I'll admit it, it's a bit scary.

      The funny thing that in Marseilles things allegedly are even more virile.

      But compared to what You'll experience is Mother Russia, french drivers are actually a placid bunch.

      • by foobang ( 945025 )

        Oh, and I also used to ride in Paris on bicycle before rented ones (they call it velib) appeared.
        Now that's something that requires some solid balls.

      • by Luckyo ( 1726890 )

        Fun part is, I have in fact driven in Russia (E18, E20 and St. Petersburg). It's fucking awful, but nowhere near as bad as Paris. Rules are about as optional as Paris, but at least people don't actively try to fight you on the road for the right of forming a spare lane where they isn't room for one like they do in Paris. And they don't have that weird notion that cars reproduce sexually and consent is optional for that form of sex when parking that French have. Russians actually care about their cars having

        • Russians actually care about their cars having more or less intact bumpers.

          Obviously the French took the term "bumper", quite literally.

          Maybe the rest of us, need to be having a lot more fun in parking lots.

          (kidding. my insurance is bad enough.)

    • I grew up in Greece. I've lived a few years in the US, driven around many states. I've also driven across Europe (between UK and Greece) several times (selecting a different route each time). France is one of the places I enjoy driving - granted, inside Paris it's not great, but it's still better than NYC and driving outside cities is quite nice regarding quality of roads & driver behaviour. Sure, if I had grown up driving in Long Island, where people would just stop in the middle of the road to say hi

      • You haven't seen how people drive in China, have you?

        • by Ecuador ( 740021 )

          My whole point is that most (if you go by land or population size) of the world drives much worse than the French. I've not seen people drive in China (possibly because the don't have as many dashcams as the Russians), but I've seen how some people fresh from China drive in the US ;)

    • by AmiMoJo ( 196126 ) on Thursday April 15, 2021 @06:40AM (#61275938) Homepage Journal

      The French are not as fussy about having pristine, dent-free cars as some other countries. Of course people on bikes are probably quite fussy about getting dented.

      • by fred911 ( 83970 )

        ''The French are not as fussy about having pristine, dent-free cars as some other countries.''

        That's obvious. Fuck a pristine Renault isn't worth 5 percent of the credit value. I mean let's face it, Renault.

      • The French are not as fussy about having pristine, dent-free cars as some other countries.

        Nor apparently about other people's property?

        It's one thing to damage your own car, it's something else to damage someone else's.

    • Compared to American driving us Europeans do drive a lot more aggressively, but that's more due to Americans being really docile behind the wheel than actually driving aggressively. By European standards the French aren't even that bad, specially compared to Italians, Spaniards and other southern Europeans. You should see how the Russians, specially ones with BMW's and Mercedes Benz's, drive because they make the Italians look good. Add diplomat plates into the mix and boy are you in for a show of the worst
    • I understood why most cars appeared to have significant bumper damage on front and rear bumpers.
      If situation allows it, you are supposed not to fasten the hand brake, so one who likes to sneak into a narrow parking spot, can push the cars in front and behind a bit away with his bumpers.

      Driving wise, France has improved greatly, but I agree until late 1990s they drove like manic idiots.

    • by GuB-42 ( 2483988 )

      Driving is actually safer in France than in the US, at least when it comes to traffic-related deaths.

      Compared to the US, streets are narrower, intersections are more complex with all kind of traffic. Additionally, drivers in Paris tend to be particularly aggressive. Not reckless, but they will cut in front of you given the slightest opportunity. But all that is happening at slow speeds, so while fender benders are common, deadly accidents, not so much.

      Each county have a different driving style. I've been to

  • by bungo ( 50628 ) on Thursday April 15, 2021 @06:35AM (#61275924)

    Brussels region in Belgium had a similar scheme. It was also successful.

    I know of a parent of one of my son's friends took advantage of it. They had an old diesel car with some panel damage. The second had value was less that what was offered, and they were wanting an electric anyway.

    With schemes like this, and another one to help scrap diesel cars, I've noticed that the air quality has slowly been improving in Brussels. You used to be able to eat the air, now just drink it. I've spend the last 15 years on/off riding to work, and I really notice the difference.

    It's a great idea, and I don't mind some of my tax going towards it.

  • by Vandil X ( 636030 ) on Thursday April 15, 2021 @06:54AM (#61275980)
    But how will they shop Costco?

    I'm not being facetious, I'm serious. You go to your regional bulk store, you need a car to haul that stuff home.
    • Especially if you are buying several 5kg boxes of kitty litter or large bags of pet food. You can't tell me small shops in France are as cheap as buying bulk.
    • Rent a car for an hour or two.

    • Re:Costco (Score:4, Informative)

      by serviscope_minor ( 664417 ) on Thursday April 15, 2021 @07:51AM (#61276178) Journal

      Not everyone has space to store massive bulk purchases, especially in cities where biking is the most feasible form of transport.

      Supermarkets and some cash and carry places offer delivery (in the UK, no idea about France).

      Car clubs exist so you can rent a nearby car and use that.

      Some people get cargo bikes.

      You get very cheap supermarkets like Lidl and Aldi in heavily populated areas, i.e. near where people live.

      If you are one of the 20% of French people live in the sticks and want to buy bulk, then replacing your car with a bike isn't for you.

      • Supermarket delivery in France is not yet common, though becoming more so - and often only in cities, where public transport is also a strong possibility for carrying your shopping home (and where you are near the shop, so you can go more often).

        Supermarket collection (i.e. someone else picks the shopping for you and you collect it at the store) is very common - look for the name of a hypermarket and "Drive" to find the pick-up points. One difference between this and services common in the UK is that the F

    • I had a LIFETIME FIRST last week. It's petty, but relevant, so here goes.

      Walmart is the place to buy motor oil, we all know that. But... then you're going to Walmart. And half the time they're out of stock of what you came for.

      Last week I went to their website and bought some jugs of oil. Free shipping. Later that afternoon, SAME DAY, the doorbell rings and there are my jugs of oil sitting on the porch. No box, no nothing... they just magically appeared SAME DAY without me having to go to Walma

  • I bet a lot of VSPs have atrocious emissions. Trading a whole real car that can carry four people is one thing, trading a little toy car that can barely transport one is another.

  • I guess they will go to new owners in India.
  • I guess it could be if it was a bad idea from the start and you knew not many people would go for it. But that's a reason not to do it, not a reason to claim success in the face of dismal results.
  • Unfortunately, using your bike to travel in France is suicidal. This is obvious on OpenCycleMap.org if you compare France to Germany, Belgium or The Netherlands.
    There are a few bike lanes but not enough to be really useful. Nobody is willing to use his bike regularly to go shopping or work if there are multiple death traps on the way.

     

  • With the end of the Gulf Steam that will give Europe winter worst that the America's North-East winter, I don't know how much these ebike will be a good way to commute.

  • Also, there is an offer to allow French electrophiles to buy a bridge that connects Manhattan to Long Island, which is used by many on electric bikes.

  • It doesn't work so well in a less-dense location like the USA. (same reason mass-transit generally doesn't fly here)

    I'd love to be able to bike to work, or take the train to pick up a few groceries, but it's just not practical over here. (it doesn't help that I live far enough North to make bicycling impossible for 1/3 to 1/2 of the year)

    And I really don't live THAT far from work. But it's hilly, and the roads are two lane undivided, with no shoulders or bicycle trails to take. And I'd have to pack a cha

  • In the US I can get a bigger tax write off by donating an old car to charity. Of course that does mean the car will be on the road and still running for years in the hands of a person who is motivated to keep the old clunker running. Obviously worse for the environment, but better for your personally. Just make sure you get your Noncash Charitable Contributions Form 8283 so the tax man is happy.

  • it would be the first nation in the world to give people money for old cars to put towards new electric bicycles

    Finland has a similar rebate which citizens have used to fund more than 2,000 ebikes

    So if it is the "first nation in the world" how can "Finland [have] a similar rebate"?

  • by cygnusvis ( 6168614 ) on Thursday April 15, 2021 @11:07AM (#61277180)
    What if its snowing or raining? Just dont go to work?

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