Tesla Surpasses $1 Trillion Market Cap (techcrunch.com) 118
Tesla's market valuation hit and then surpassed the $1 trillion mark Monday, a milestone reached by the company 11 years after it became a publicly traded company. It also puts Tesla in select company with Apple, Amazon, Facebook and Google, all of which have market caps above $1 trillion. From a report: Tesla shares hit $998.22 midday Monday. Shares are now trading above $1,004, up about 10.5% from this morning's open. This is the first time the company's share price reached $1,000 a share. Shares pushed higher Monday on several news stories related to Tesla, including that rental giant Hertz, which recently emerged from bankruptcy, had agreed to buy 100,000 EVs from the automaker.
Inflation (Score:4, Insightful)
We've been printing money and inflation is here.
Re:Inflation (Score:4)
We've been printing money and inflation is here.
Actually we're only seeing the bullshit excuses to manufacture "inflation".
I doubt we've even begun to see inflation that aligns with the pre-printed house of cards.
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We can be certain, in any case, that they will continue to print money until it hurts. Politicians have no motivation to cut spending (or increase taxes).
Re:Inflation (Score:4, Interesting)
The US government is borrowing money at about 2% (less than pre-pandemic inflation) [macrotrends.net]. If any business on Earth was able to borrow money at that rate, they would use it to build up. But for some reason the people who want the government to be "run like a business" object to more borrowing at this level--the nominal specter is inflation--but in truth they just don't want a government that does things.
If people felt there were too many dollars, they would demand more than the rate of inflation to lend us money and be willing to pay a premium to transfer the money to a less "hyperinflationary" currencies. But we don't see that with actual currencies. The US dollar is within historical norms vs the Euro [xe.com] ($1.16) and the YUAN [xe.com]. So you're right that the government can keep borrowing for a while before it hurts anything, but I don't see that as a problem. Certainly I think the dollar is less overvalued than Tesla stock.
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I don't see how your comment relates to mine. Are you trying to say that there isn't inflation right now? Because inflation is here.
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Re: Inflation (Score:1)
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I have no training in economics and have never read one of those reports from the Fed. So if you have a primer on the connection between interest rates and the current inflation, I will read it and you can tldr the rest.
But I think raising interest rates is supposed to cool off the economy by making capital more expensive (bank loans and corporate bonds have to have a better ROI to compete against a higher-yield 30 year bond, and stocks will appreciate more slowly in the cooler economic environment) . Rig
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That's motivated reasoning.
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America can PRINT dollars to buy OPEC Oil ; Rest have to EARN dollars to buy OPEC Oil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
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Or.... last year energy prices dropped significantly (deflation) and we're now seeing a return to pre-pandemic pricing.
No, that's something we can measure. Inflation briefly went negative during the start of the pandemic, but the fed is really good at stopping that, and they did. Now it's bounced back beyond the small deflation we saw at the beginning of the pandemic. (I'm sure you already know this, but inflation is more than just energy prices).
Re: Inflation (Score:2)
Dude, the coffee and donut that I had for breakfast this morning cost me $9. It would have been $6.50 last year. Inflation is real, stop pretending this is a temporary thing.
Re: Inflation (Score:1)
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Inflation likes high interest rates, which are a couple of years off.
I can't figure out what your metaphor means here. Inflation doesn't happen until there is high interest rates? If that were the case, we could avoid inflation permanently merely by not raising interest rates. I don't know what you are basing your assertion on, or what it means. Inflation "likes"?
Inflation isn't sentient and doesn't "like" anything, it's just a natural law result of money supply correlated with goods. If there's more money than goods, then people will start paying more for the goods. If ther
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And the opposite when deflation hits: Why spend hard-to-get income when prices are falling? Better save it in case you lose your job.
So, unfortunately, without some form of intervention economic growth is inherently unstable, swinging further eith
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We've been printing money and inflation is here.
Thank GOD! I’ve been waiting years to wipe my ass with the payoff balance on my mortgage then mail it in and this way I’m not even out the toilet paper.
Dr Evil (Score:5, Funny)
They need to update Austin Powers so that Dr Evil says he is holding the world hostage for 1 trillion dollars. Then cut to Bezos, Musk, Satya Nadela, and Tim Cook laughing uncontrollably.
On a side note (Score:2)
Makes sense... (Score:1)
They produce some of the safest cars (according to NHTSA)
They produce the fastest car (Model S Plaid)
They are profitable
And, by the way, they are electric.
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Counterpoint: This is also true for a number of supercar manufacturers that make EVs, and they don't have a market cap bigger than all the traditional auto manufacuring megacorps combined.
Re: Makes sense... (Score:2)
Supercars equal niche market, no?
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Teslas are a fairly niche market too, all but perhaps one of their cars are priced well out of the hands of the average Joe. They're not a mainstream automaker yet any more than Porsche (part of VAG) or Lotus are. Lotus makes models in the Tesla price range and makes a supercar with an innovative battery setup, but last I checked they're not much more financially healthy than they've ever been.
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But Lotus stands for "Lots of Trouble, Usually Serious". I've known a few Lotus owners and they do appear to require quite a bit of maintenance (the cars and sometimes the owners). Being a pain to own is a characteristic of most supercars. Teslas are not a pain to own and so hardly a niche like a Lotus cars are. I see them every time I drive. When I first got my Tesla, people would point at it as I drove by. Not any more.
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Lotus reliability has been pretty good since the S1 Elise that came out in the '90s, earlier models were mostly like other British sports cars of their time...
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Fastest car? You seen the Ring times on that thing?
https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
Meanwhile:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
It's only ~8s faster than an old Camaro Z/28. Please.
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Re: Makes sense... (Score:2)
Fastest by acceleration
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik... [wikipedia.org]
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...in the forward direction.
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Yay? It's a decent drag car, but if you want to corner you're SoL.
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Not bad when you consider they started building cars from scratch.
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Eh, I guess? Throw enough money at the problem and you can hire some automotive engineers to get you a head start. Tesla is not really going to be taken seriously as a super/hypercar manufacturer until they get the issue of handling sorted out; that being said, the other EV manufacturers aren't doing much better. Look at the Taycan numbers, bleh.
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Fastest car? You seen the Ring times on that thing?
https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
Meanwhile:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
It's only ~8s faster than an old Camaro Z/28. Please.
Well, as someone as already said, best acceleration to 60. Also, I see your 'ring time stat, and raise you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] No way any production car has gone faster than that one! :-)
Re: Makes sense... (Score:1)
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It only ever travels on one track. Rather limited in application.
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"They produce some of the safest cars (according to NHTSA)
They produce the fastest car (Model S Plaid)
They are profitable
And, by the way, they are electric."
And they are worth more than all the other car companies combined.
Stock analysis (Score:3)
They produce some of the safest cars (according to NHTSA)
They produce the fastest car (Model S Plaid)
They are profitable
And, by the way, they are electric.
Tesla stock is moved by events.
The most recent event was the quarterly earnings report (last Wednesday, IIRC), where they beat expectations in number of cars sold *and* increased margin. The increased margin thing is due to Tesla improving the manufacturing process in various ways.
The next two events are the Berlin factory coming online, probably before end of year, and the Austin factory coming online, also probably before the end of the year. If history is any guide, Tesla will have *some* cars manufactur
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They produce some of the safest cars (according to NHTSA)
They produce the fastest car (Model S Plaid)
They are profitable
And, by the way, they are electric.
And they don't even rank in the top 23 car companies [carlogos.org].
They're a luxury car manufacturer with a really strong brand (celebrity CEO, electric, and self-driving). But a luxury car company doesn't make it into the top-5 of auto manufactures, much less whatever is required to justify the 1-trillion valuation they're getting.
Seriously, the Telsa valuation is insane [seekingalpha.com].
Volkswagen sold over 9 million vehicles last year, yet Tesla is seeing a 10% + jump over a deal for 100k?!?
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I think people buy Tesla stock as a bet that Tesla will be really big in the future, not because of their current sales.
Tesla has been growing at a crazy rate. They have been tracking their plan, and their plan was for over 50% compound annual growth rate. They are now about to seriously ramp up their production. Elon Musk has said that their goal is to be shipping 20 million cars per year by 2030.
https://www.inverse.com/innovation/musk-teslas-bold-target-for-2030 [inverse.com]
They have already laid the groundwork for
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I think people buy Tesla stock as a bet that Tesla will be really big in the future, not because of their current sales.
Tesla has been growing at a crazy rate. They have been tracking their plan, and their plan was for over 50% compound annual growth rate. They are now about to seriously ramp up their production. Elon Musk has said that their goal is to be shipping 20 million cars per year by 2030.
https://www.inverse.com/innovation/musk-teslas-bold-target-for-2030 [inverse.com]
They have already laid the groundwork for a massive expansion. They have built multiple giant factories, invested in "gigacasting" machines, built battery factories, etc. All they have to do now is keep on executing at the same level they have already been.
Who does Musk think is going to buy those 20 million cars?
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Who does Musk think is going to buy those 20 million cars?
By 2023 Tesla will be selling a $25K car [insideevs.com]. By 2025 Tesla could be selling a $15K car [thedriven.io] and by 2030 who even knows how low it could go. (Prices in 2021 US dollars. I'm not predicting how bad inflation might be by 2030.) I'm sure the 20 million target also includes pickup trucks, delivery vans, and semi trucks.
Alternative theory: Tesla won't sell all the cars, but will operate some large percentage of them as self-driving "robotaxis" [teslarati.com].
By 2030 only a fe
Re:Makes sense... (Score:5, Interesting)
That is from the politics side.
Tesla is kinda Anti-Union so the Democrats don't like them much. They also have factories in California, and soon to be in Texas, neither of these states are swing states, that get need special love by politicians, unlike Michigan which everyone is bending backwards to get to love them. Tesla makes Electric Cars, and Green Energy with Solar Panels, so the Republicans who are tied to the Gas and Oil companies (like how the Democrats are tied to the Unions) have a lot of pressure to not give Tesla a lot of love.
Tesla also doesn't do traditional advertising, like TV spots so they will be more apt to spread FUD and one sided information that puts Tesla in a bad light.
Like covering every Tesla fire, while ignoring the thousands of fire from normal cars.
Re: Makes sense... (Score:1)
Every sane industrialist is anti Union
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It also depends on the Rigor that they go to stop the unions from forming. I am not a Union guy myself, I don't see the American Union system as current or effective anymore (The Pro-Untion Arguments were about all the good they had done 100 years ago). However they do still offer a big political sway, so an industrialist who may want to be on a political good side, may be a bit more union friendly, they often will not have the union, but not make it seem like they are going to attack them.
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Dude, take your medicine, you are talking gibberish.
I like Tesla but... (Score:2)
As someone who Likes Tesla, and my Next car next year or so, will probably be a Tesla, I think it's stock is artificially high, as they is to much investment in the future, vs right now.
Currently on the road in my current area where I live, I see a Tesla about as commonly as I see a newish Mercedes Benz. Which is rare enough for me to notice them, but not rare enough to be a surprise, or cause undue extra attention. The bulk of the newish cars in my area are still Mostly Toyota, Honda, Ford Pickups, Chev
Totally agree (Score:1)
As someone who Likes Tesla, and my Next car next year or so, will probably be a Tesla, I think it's stock is artificially high,
I agree with this, I love the company and think it has a bright future but is any company's future bright enough to warrant a 332 P/E ratio?
I applied those who have stuck with the stock, as for a while I did own it myself and got out with substantial gains, so the people who had hung onto it deserve the rewards they have achieved... just don't forget you don't have rewards until you
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There are a lot of preorders for the Cybertruck. A lot of people who saw the original iPhone, was like, that isn't a phone, and it is going to die, unless Apple makes something more conventional.
The Cybertruck design is only really considered ugly, because it is not what we are use to. Also there are few tradeoffs that effect utility, other than not having a removable bed, and will not support a lot of current 3rd party add ons. The rest of the arguments are actually just stretching on what they think the
Re:I like Tesla but... (Score:4, Interesting)
Car companies dump excess inventory at fire sale prices to rental companies.
Tesla is selling these cars to Hertz at full price.
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We do (Score:3)
Per Elon [twitter.com]
Considering Hertz already has an ad campaign with Tom Brady [youtube.com], they must have signed the contract a while ago. It's possible the price per car was set when they signed it, so could be lower than the current price which has seen recent increases [autoweek.com].
Based on the specs [hertz.com], specifically the up to 260 mile range, it's the base Model 3.
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I doubt that Hertz will be trying to get the performance or long range models. As the renter often just wants a comfortable car, that will get them from point A to Point B, and normally travel less than 100 miles from the renting location. The low end Model 3, has a 0-60 in around 6 seconds which is still a good speed. (Considering when I use to travel for work, I had rented cars, that took 15 seconds to get to 60, and struggled up a slight incline)
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White's the "free" color (Score:2)
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It takes a lot of imagination to spin 100,000 guaranteed sales as a bad thing, and so I applaud you for making the attempt. :)
Re:I like Tesla but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Stock is high because they are investing for the future.
Also, it's not "just a car company". They have several business lines, all of which could make more money than cars.
- Semi trucks
- Solar panels/roofs
- Energy storage (commercial)
- Powerwalls (home energy storage)
- AI robots
- AI services
- Full self driving
- Insurance
As a car company:
They produce some of the safest cars (according to NHTSA)
They produce the fastest car (Model S Plaid)
They are profitable
And, by the way, they are electric."
And they are worth more than all the other car companies combined.
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- Semi trucks
Vapor ware
- Solar panels/roofs
Rebadged Chinese panels that cost more than industry norms.
- Energy storage (commercial)
That starts on fire.
- Powerwalls (home energy storage)
That costs more than industry norms.
- AI robots
Vapor ware
- AI services
Vapor ware
- Full self driving
Vapor ware. They are also under a NHTSB for lying about the capabilities of their glorified cruise control.
- Insurance
Nothing more than a rebranding of someone else’s product. It also costs more than competitors.
They produce some of the safest cars
Not according to the NHTSB and the NTSB.
They produce the fastest car (Model S Plaid)
Which has one of the slowest lap times of the Nurburgring.
They are profitable
Not according to their financial disclosures.
And, by the way, they are electric.
So are golf carts
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"Golf carts are electric so there is nothing special about a company building electric vehicles".
What you think is clever or concise wit is ignorant snark. Just say you don't like Tesla but are also mad you didn't buy the stock four years ago and be done with it.
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They produce the fastest car (Model S Plaid)
Fastest by what criteria?
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They produce the fastest car (Model S Plaid)
Fastest by what criteria?
The attention span of their owners.
Re: I like Tesla but... (Score:3)
Stopwatch â±ï
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that's not a criteria. There are faster cars, so what criteria?
Re: I like Tesla but... (Score:2)
What's faster?
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Oh umm gee let me Google that for you.
The plaid does about 200mph, the first production car to got 200mph was a Ferrari in the 80s.
Tesla fanbois were like Mac fanbois. They're not content for something to be the best in only some categories. It must be the best at everything, reality be damned!
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What's faster?
Most supercars are faster, and many of them are street legal too. You could say it's the fastest family sedan. That it wins hands down as basically every car which beats it only has 2 seats.
But with a top speed of 304mph the Bugatti Chairon is 50% faster than the 200mph that the Model S Plaid can achieve. And that Bugatti is only the second fastest road legal car. The crown is all American Shelby SuperCar Tuatara at 316mph.
Actually the Model S Plaid is slightly slower than a 1987 Ferrari F40 at 204mph. It d
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Stock is high because they are investing for the future.
Also, it's not "just a car company". They have several business lines, all of which could make more money than cars.
- Semi trucks
Usually included in the definition of "car company".
- Solar panels/roofs
A commodity business dominated by installation costs.
- Energy storage (commercial)
- Powerwalls (home energy storage)
Interesting though not currently scalable [wikipedia.org].
- AI robots
- AI services
Interesting (and expensive) R&D projects. Though I'm not sure they have anything to show for it, much less high margin product lines.
- Full self driving
Not a thing they have, and something they're generally considered to be lagging behind in.
- Insurance
I hadn't heard of this, again, interesting, but not necessarily scalable.
As a car company:
They produce some of the safest cars (according to NHTSA)
They produce the fastest car (Model S Plaid)
They are profitable
And, by the way, they are electric."
And they produce only a tiny fraction of the number of cars as an
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Their stock is artificially high because of the Cult of Musk and the BS promises he won't deliver on.
For example, if Full Self Driving ever works then Tesla might actually be worth this kind of money, because they will have a relatively cheap fully autonomous driving system. Unfortunately it hasn't ever worked and the predicted launch date keeps getting pushed back, initially from 2017 to now I think 2023 was his last prediction.
Meanwhile other companies have demonstrated actually working designs and are cl
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For example, if Full Self Driving ever works then Tesla might actually be worth this kind of money, because they will have a relatively cheap fully autonomous driving system. Unfortunately it hasn't ever worked
A Tesla driving itself is already safer on average than a human. Level 4 self-driving is a Really Hard Problem but Tesla are closer to solving it than anyone else, and they will solve it soon. They have more data than anyone else, they have the fastest training supercomputer, and the young people ri
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The jump today is about people and institutions better understanding that Tesla is a legitimate manufacturer— they are starting to get that 50% annual growth in sales is reasonable for the next few years.
What Parent and many others miss is that the drop in ICE sales as EVs take over will be quite violent due to network effects. The timing will vary by location, but around 2025 you will have a lot of people that are unwilling to by a new ICE. That starts to destroy used car values, increases loan inter
Gotta hand it to Musk (Score:5, Insightful)
Traditionally the most successful capitalists in America - Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Gates, Bezos - have all had one thing in common. They figured out how to corner their respective markets, using a combination of legal and illegal means.
Musk is a different breed. His great talent is to examine existing industries for inefficiencies and/or poor service. He did this with Banking and PayPal. He did it with NASA/space travel and SpaceX. He did it with Internet service providers and SpaceX. He did it with traditional automakers and Tesla. Unlike Gates and Bezos, Musk does not appear to have resorted to unethical or monopolistic methods.
Yes, Musk has leveraged government subsidies to grow his business but he doesn't appear to have done anything to squeeze out competitors. PayPal competes with Square. Tesla competes with Volkswagen and the American car makers.
His singular advantage is his ability to see things in a different way and challenge traditional ways of thinking. It used to be a given that when rockets were launched they would simply be discarded in the ocean when they landed. Musk found a way to reuse the rockets, and to do it far cheaper. He looked at traditional satellite internet service and concluded, rightly so, that it stunk. He came up with a better, faster, cheaper way.
For that I tip my hat to Elon Musk.
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"Tesla competes with Volkswagen ...2
At the Volksfest for the Berlin factory, he let drop the fact that Tesla needs 10 hours to make a car vs. 30 for Volkswagen, there were immediately many emergency meetings at VW.
Re:Gotta hand it to Musk (Score:5, Interesting)
"Tesla competes with Volkswagen ...2
At the Volksfest for the Berlin factory, he let drop the fact that Tesla needs 10 hours to make a car vs. 30 for Volkswagen, there were immediately many emergency meetings at VW.
Sounds like it's actually 20 vs 10 [insideevs.com]. Though number of manufacturing hours alone isn't necessarily the critical number when comparing manufacturers.
But the other question is what happens when you start making 9 million vehicles / year instead of 500? Some things scale well, but other things don't. You can't really create another CEO to hyper-focus on fixing problems at a particular factory. And when it comes to supply chains it's easier to throw your weight around but harder to find a plan B that can scale in time.
Not to mention, it's easier to find a market for 500k vehicles than 9 million. Especially when you're in a new segment and not having to compete with a lot of 2nd hand vehicles.
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You can't really create another CEO to hyper-focus on fixing problems at a particular factory.
I’ll probably get downmodded for even saying it but Musk is no Tony Stark, and in fact has a rather mundane if not poor understanding of engineering or programming specifics and details in general. What he does have is an understanding that contrary to what’s taught in business schools, engineering/computer science talent is an underrated asset and when you can identify the actual talent not just some board members nephew who knows the cyber, and let them lead then you can make truly successfu
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Re:Gotta hand it to Musk (Score:5, Insightful)
I want to upgrade to an EV, and while I do want a Tesla, I hesistate dropping all that cash for a poorly put together vehicle.
I did a Google search to see just how bad it really is, and it doesn't look like the situation is really that bad these days.
https://insideevs.com/features/529452/tesla-modely-build-quality-analysis/ [insideevs.com]
And Sandy Munro's organization, in their teardowns of BEVs, found that Tesla's fundamental engineering is massively better than anyone else's. So, if you want the best BEV, you really need to buy a Tesla.
In these two videos they mercilessly compare the engineering on the Ford Mach E to the engineering on a Tesla Model Y. Then the punchline: despite their complaints about the Ford, it's the second-best engineering they have seen; everyone else is worse.
Note, if you only watch one of these videos, I suggest the second one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1dQtlrI7uU [youtube.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1kHsd3Ocxc [youtube.com]
I want to buy a Tesla, but quality, fit and finish and service issues have me considering other EVs.
My daily driver is a Tesla Model S and I consider it the best car I have ever driven, let alone owned. I dunno, maybe there are uneven panel gaps? I'm really not a "car guy" and I don't care. The car is safe, smooth, and has more power than I need. The seats are comfortable, the stereo sounds good, and IMHO the car looks good.
It sounds like you are more of a "car guy" than I am, so maybe you should follow the advice of the guy from the first video: inspect your car's panel gaps and ask Tesla to make adjustments to any that don't meet your spec.
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This is very true. Tesla is still hitting a niche market and I don't see that changing. They've done very well without the competition, not forgetting just how much money has been poured into R&D to get even to the level they are at today. Meanwhile most other brands are catching up and companies like BYD are emerging from China that seem to offer what everyone really wants: affordable EVs not overloaded with needless and expensive tech. I don't doubt Tesla will continue to sell smallish volumes of vehi
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Agreed. As a car company success for Telsa probably equates to being the equivalent of Apple Computers before the iPod.
Nice cars with a really strong brand behind them but overpriced based on the raw specs.
I think they still grow for a while, but I don't see them breaking into the top-5.
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I don't doubt Tesla will continue to sell smallish volumes of vehicles but once you can buy a quality EV from 5-10 other brands I don't see what they are offering that will help them dominate the market.
If Tesla's self-driving software ever gets to the point where you can actually use it for its intended purpose (i.e. take a nap in the back seat while your car drives for you, without causing any safety problems), that would help them dominate the market.
Granted, that's a very big if, but that's what they are aiming for and it they succeed they would have functionality that is non-trivial for any other company to match.
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I think this is what they (and Waymo/Uber) are gambling on, and it seems like a huge gamble. I don't doubt that self-driving will be a real thing within a decade but despite the beta releases it doesn't look like Tesla have got a handle on this one yet. Waymo is the clear leader, meanwhile the features available on a Tesla are cute and kind of functional at best. Uber is a total shit show but the VC just keeps on pumping and who knows if that will ever end, they just don't give up. I can't see Tesla coming
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"But the other question is what happens when you start making 9 million vehicles / year instead of 500? Some things scale well, but other things don't. "
It's Elon, he'll put 9 women on the job and they'll make a baby in 1 month.
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"It’s easy to build a car fast when you half ass it and cut corners."
Tesla sold more model 3s than VW sold Golfs the last quarter.
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SpaceX is very much a government funded project. They cashed in on some lucrative NASA contracts right as they were about to go bankrupt.
Musk is a great salesman, and that's enough to accomplish many great things. However, physics doesn't speak English and doesn't know that it's supposed to make space travel easier for him.
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Yes, Musk has leveraged government subsidies to grow his business [...]
So do Big Oil and the ICE automakers by externalising the cost of the damage they're doing. And as most of us can calculate, the bill will be way higher than the subsidies Musk is receiving.
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His real insight with Tesla was to produce an electric car that was actually desirable to people other than hard-core environmentalists. Their first model (the Roadster) was a limited run of the drive train in a Lotus body. That proved the concept and after that it was away we go. I've actually seen some reviewers who say that the construction is not efficient at all--they've done tear downs where they pointed out how there were too many pieces and welds compared to Detroit cars, and that it probably too
Does this mean (Score:2)
Like putting your peepee in an electric socket (Score:2)
Re:Like Huffing Paint (Score:4, Funny)
I think we found our Tesla short.
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The market cap is over 20 times the revenue.
For it to be a sane investment based on fundamentals, you need to believe that they will get autodrive working, deployed, while others will not get it working, and will manage to grow their car buisness much, much faster than they have.
At the time of the '$420' tweet, market cap (Score:2)
It's now hit $1000B.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Ep169hkvU