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Transportation Japan Power

Toyota Unveils Its First All-Electric Car (electrek.co) 103

Posted by BeauHD from the first-of-many dept.
At an event in Japan today, Toyota unveiled its first all-electric car: the bZ4X. Electrek reports: "bZ" stands for "beyond zero," which is Toyota's latest electrification strategy and a sort of sub-brand for its upcoming electric vehicles, starting with the bZ4X. The electric SUV hasn't been updated much from the concept. It still features some sharp lines and aggressive design. In terms of specs, we finally have more details. Toyota has been clear that every spec it released today is for the Japanese version of the car. Details on the US version are expected to come next month, but it should still give us a good idea.

The vehicle is equipped with a 71.4 kWh battery pack. As for what range it enables, Toyota is only releasing right now "cruising range per charge (WLTC)," which it claims to be 500 km (310 miles) for the front-wheel drive version and 460 km (286 miles) for the all-wheel-drive version. The front-wheel-drive version is equipped with a single 150 kW motor while the all-wheel-drive version is equipped with an 80 kW motor on each axle. The DC fast-charging capacity is apparently capped at 150 kW and Toyota says that it can charge to 80% state-of-charge in about 30 minutes with that capacity.

First off, it's capable of bidirectional charging for vehicle-to-home capacity. It's also offered with an optional solar roof, which Toyota says can "generates electricity equivalent to 1,800 km of driving distance per year." Toyota is also offering the bZ4X with an optional "wing-shaped" steering wheel, which the automaker claims improve visibility. The electric SUV is expected to land first in Japan in mid-2022. More details about pricing, specs and features will be available in the coming months. The news comes after the company said it expects to spend more than $13.5 billion to develop EV battery tech and supply by 2030.
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Toyota Unveils Its First All-Electric Car

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  • I am happy to see. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jellomizer ( 103300 ) on Friday October 29, 2021 @07:33PM (#61940305)

    Toyota made a mistake by going to hydrogen fuel cells. I am happy to see that they have changed directions. We need more non-Tesla EV out there to help the sector grow. Toyota is good at building cars, and has a good reputation for quality.
    That said, I hope it doesn't become a compliance car where they only sell a few thousand, then complain that only a few thousand had bought them, and they are too small of a market.

    • No they didn't. It was a calculated move to slow the movement to electric cars. They wanted their ICE production lines to stay profitable longer. At the same time as they did that, they produced battery electric vehicles in China.

      They knew hydrogen wasn't going anywhere. That was the whole idea.

      • Nice to see Toyota releasing the equivalent of 1st Gen Teslas (if that). Maybe they need to try and sabotage the adoption of EVs harder.
      • Japan seismic risk reduces appetite for nuclear power. Unfortunately, Japan has few options for essential power. Methane hydrate is once potential option for Japan , but it can be used for electric generation as fuel cells. Other countries were also hopeful for fuel cells but near term electric has cost feasibility advantages. While known there was hope RD could narrow gap. Batteries supply chain will be a headache.

    • Yep, absolutely. I'm going to be in the market for a new car when my current vehicle poops out, and I'm pretty sure I'll be buying an EV. While I perhaps don't strictly need an SUV, I've occasionally regretted not having a bit more trunk space for hauling stuff around. And I like the idea of the solar panel, which may help to top off batteries. Will have to see how much extra that costs to see if it makes any economic sense. Not sure about the new shape of the steering wheel. Would probably have to tr

      • And I like the idea of the solar panel, which may help to top off batteries. Will have to see how much extra that costs to see if it makes any economic sense.

        They don't make economic sense.

        Do a little math on the power output of that solar panel. How much power can someone get from the sun? If the sun is directly overhead on a cloudless day then you get 1000 watts per square meter. Even the best consumer grade solar panels convert less than 25% of that into electricity. Space grade, multi-junction, stuff might get 30% or 40% but that's not going to end up on the roof of a Toyota. After some use and abuse, and non-optimal placement from being on the roof of

        • The solar panels are for decoration.

          Or for running out of power in the middle of nowhere....

          • Or for running out of power in the middle of nowhere....

            No, it doesn't work that way. Do the math.

            How much power will it take to move this car? How much power can that solar panel produce? If you run out of power in the middle of nowhere then you are better off walking than waiting in the sun for your electric car to charge up from solar panels on the roof. If you believe otherwise then show me the math.

          • The solar panels are for decoration.

            Or for running out of power in the middle of nowhere....

            They will be good for charging you mobile phone. And possibly even standing on for better signal when you call someone for help.

          • They aren't going to provide enough power for significant range. They might keep the car from getting bricked by having the battery run down completely, but you'll still need some other way to get power into the car if you want to drive it more than a few miles. Might be enough to get it to a charging station, but that's about it.

        • >"The solar panels are for decoration."

          Woke decoration.

        • Re:I am happy to see. (Score:4, Interesting)

          by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Friday October 29, 2021 @10:07PM (#61940571)
          "A few hours per day at best" is not true for everybody. I live in New Mexico and don't have covered parking at work. I would be happy if it just "squandered" the energy keeping the interior nice and cool for when I get in. That would be a very noticeable benefit.

          • Did you do the math on how well that would work in keeping the car's interior cool? You apparently did not.

            How about you show some numbers on how this works to your benefit. I'm quite certain that the numbers do not add up.

            • Did you do the math on how well that would work in keeping the car's interior cool? You apparently did not.

              How about you show some numbers on how this works to your benefit. I'm quite certain that the numbers do not add up.

              So Mr Certain.
              Why didn't you just show your numbers then?

              • Hmm...
                Napkin estimation, of course. The article says 1800 km/year off the solar panel. That's about 5 km/day. It's about 0.2 kWh/km according to google. So around 1 kWh/day.

                Let's say all that energy is produced over a 10 hour period of daylight. To get 1 kWh/day, that's 100 watts.

                Most cooling systems are around 3:1, IE they can remove 3 units of heat per 1 unit of electricity input. So that would be 300 watts of heat removed.

                Some googling gives me 560 watts of heating [numerade.com] "per square meter". Between the

              • So Mr Certain.
                Why didn't you just show your numbers then?

                I find things work better this way is all. Part of it is because I show my numbers, someone claims the numbers are wrong but then fail to show their numbers so nothing is settled. I have the correct numbers right here, written on a pad on my desk. You want those numbers then show me yours first, then maybe I share. You don't want to play? Fine, we both walk away claiming the other is full of shit, proud to be victorious.

                You already won, right? I'm too chickenshit to show my math. To remove all doubt

            • Did you do the math on how well that would work in keeping the car's interior cool? You apparently did not.

              How about you show some numbers on how this works to your benefit. I'm quite certain that the numbers do not add up.

              Well, you are missing one thing. The biggest problem he really has is that the parking lot isn't covered. So if, instead of putting the solar panels on the car roof, they put them on a metal frame above the car-park and used them to provide shade you would get a considerable improvement.

              Not to mention that the solar panels would be full side and could then be set up south facing and so might even provide a useful amount of energy during the day which could even be used to top up a few BEVs as well.

          • Re: (Score:3)

            by DeBaas ( 470886 )

            One of the things I like most on my 2011 Prius is the solar panel powering the fan when the car is turned off. The stronger the sun is, the faster the fans blow. Works perfectly when the air temperature is still cool, but the sun is already strong.
            I got the option because it came with the sunroof. I guess it wasn't a success since they stopped selling them. My guess is that people expect airco type cooling which is it isn't capable of. It is however, even on hot summer days, capable of ensuring that at leas

          • Ah a new Mexican!

            Sure it can go 240 miles on a charge but what about when the mandatory emergency spare is fitted?

            Having a permanent paper license plate inside the rear windshield should improve aerodynamics.

        • In TFA, Toyota claims that you can expect to get about 1800 km per year directly from the panels, or about 1118 miles per year for US heathens. According to Google, average residential rates means an e-car gets about a mile for every 3.3 cents of electricity. Since this is an SUV, let's round up to 5 cents per mile.

          So, you'll get about $55 a year in free mileage, max. Let's be reasonable and claim $40 a year in savings. So, assuming you keep your car for ten years, if the option costs $400, that's rough

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by madbrain ( 11432 )

            Toyota really should have listed how many kWh/year they expect to generate from the solar panel, and how big it will be. My EVs/PHEVs get about 3.5 miles year round, including everything such as charging losses, using heat in the winter, elevation (I live in the hills), based on 9 years of driving plug-in cars. 1118 miles would thus require 319 kWh. So, they are expecting about 0.87 kWh per day from the panels on top of the car. My 40 rooftop solar panels generate between 13,000 and 16,000 kWh per year base

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by madbrain ( 11432 )

          I did the math below.

          Toyota really should have listed how many kWh/year they expect to generate from the solar panel, and how big it will be. My EVs/PHEVs get about 3.5 miles year round, including everything such as charging losses, using heat in the winter, elevation (I live in the hills), based on 9 years of driving plug-in cars. 1118 miles would thus require 319 kWh. So, they are expecting about 0.87 kWh per day from the panels on top of the car. My 40 rooftop solar panels generate between 13,000 and 16,

        • The solar panels are for decoration.

          This is such short sighted thinking by people only considering their own limited use case.

          I leave my car parked on the street all day in the sun, sometimes a couple of days between uses. It may charge slower, but it will still charge & sometimes significantly. Even if its only a little here and there, that still adds up. Cars get boosts of charge from sources that cannot possibly recharge a battery entirely such as from the brakes. It all adds up to better energy efficiency.

          I also do occasional roa

          • Can you provide any numbers to back up your claim? I gave some "order of magnitude" and "back of envelope" numbers in my previous post, surely you can offer something similar to make your case?

            I've done the math, solar panels on electric cars are little more than decoration. There would be more value add by parking in the shade to slow the weathering on the car than to park in the sun to add range.

      • If I were to buy a daily driver right now, I'd just go for a plug-in hybrid. I live in a state where they might beef up electric infrastructure for mining of cryptocurrency, or they might just say the electric grid is a "socialist construct" and not bother with it until another mass outage happens. Part of the reason is that there are no real EV chargers where I work, no EV chargers anywhere near I commute, and a charger at home is not feasible due to the way the property is laid out. I could run a 120 v

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by amorsen ( 7485 )

          I really don't understand why nobody is making serial hybrids.

          Their fuel economy is horrendous. Just look at the fuel economy of the i3 when it runs on the range extender. Even with the absolutely pitiful performance that it has on the range extender, it cannot match the fuel economy of similar sized non-hybrids.

          I also don't understand why you would buy a plug-in hybrid when you have no place to plug it in. Real electric cars can use fast chargers, but plug-ins can't. They are entirely dependent on having a charger at home or at work, and preferably both due to their

    • We need more non-Tesla EV out there to help the sector grow.

      No, we don't.

      Where is the electricity for these electric cars going to come from? Likely from natural gas. How does that help anything?

      We need nuclear power and synthesized hydrocarbon fuels. Electric cars are a distraction, we have better options available already. Electric cars are already obsolete, or at least they will be long before we can produce enough of them to make any real difference in CO2 emissions.

      • Where is the electricity for these electric cars going to come from? Likely from natural gas.

        Even electricity from natural gas plants would make them more environment-friendly than using gasoline in a small piston engine, but considering the duty cycle of individually owned vehicles, charging them opportunistically from renewable power sources is a complete no-brainer. In fact this kind of balancing will very likely prove beneficial for future grids.

        • Even electricity from natural gas plants would make them more environment-friendly than using gasoline in a small piston engine,

          Then don't use gasoline. We can burn natural gas in the car. Not only would compressed natural gas lower CO2 emissions per mile by something like 30% it offers the "recharge" at home option like an EV, and doesn't require the large infrastructure changes that EVs would require.

          but considering the duty cycle of individually owned vehicles, charging them opportunistically from renewable power sources is a complete no-brainer.

          Lots of things are a "no brainer" on the short term. Long term the mining for materials to produce all the batteries for these electric cars will be a problem. EVs will not solve our energy or CO2 emissions problems. Neither will

          • and doesn't require the large infrastructure changes that EVs would require.

            Sure it would. Nearly 100% of the nation is wired for electricity. It's around 50% for natural gas. So a substantial portion of the population couldn't charge a NG vehicle at home. Plus, if you want to distribute that much natural gas instead of gasoline, well, you're going to need a ton of additional gas pipes, and the existing infrastructure, just like with EVs using more electricity, you're going to need bigger pipes, more NG wells, etc...

            f electric cars are such a "no brainer" then why don't I see anyone offer real world numbers to prove their case?

            I have to say, that's probably because you haven't looked. I'

          • Yawn. give it up. there are lots of people out there doing the stuff that you think doesn't work out and far smarter than a nuclear fission troll on /.

          • it offers the "recharge" at home option like an EV

            Perhaps, but I'm not sure I'd trust my neighbors with operating complicated natural gas infrastructure such as very high pressure pumps. I do trust them with being able to operate a single plug.

            and doesn't require the large infrastructure changes that EVs would require.

            What "large infrastructure changes" are you talking about? It literally only requires a plug in your garage. In fact BEVs are the ICE vehicle replacement with the lowest infrastructure impact.

            Lots of things are a "no brainer" on the short term. Long term the mining for materials to produce all the batteries for these electric cars will be a problem. EVs will not solve our energy or CO2 emissions problems. Neither will renewable energy sources. I've seen the numbers. We will need nuclear fission power and synthesized hydrocarbon fuels.

            I love how you always start with the solution you want and then work out your way towards the problems that you're looking for

            • What "large infrastructure changes" are you talking about? It literally only requires a plug in your garage.

              If that is true then why all the commotion about EV plug standards? And public charging stations? And "smart grids"? And large government subsidies for these things?

              This is far more than about an electrical outlet in one's garage. That is in large part because a large proportion of people do not have a garage to park their car.

          • > and doesn't require the large infrastructure changes that EVs would require.

            How does natural gas refiling at home require fewer infrastructure changes than home charging? Not every home has gas service, but almost every home has electrical service. And in both cases, large numbers of people refilling at home would put a huge strain on the respective service.

            > EVs will not solve our energy or CO2 emissions problems. ... I've seen the numbers. We will need nuclear fission power and synthesized hydr

            • Don't just allude to the numbers, cite them.

              Should it not be the EV advocates that have to defend their position? They are the ones trying to upend the world economy. If they want people to buy in then they had better have a very good case on how it works for everyone's benefit.

              • You said "I've seen the numbers", and said some very nonintuitive things, and didn't cite any sources. I *did* cite a source --- specifically, the only one you provided, which actually contradicted your point.

                Everyone who's saying "no you're wrong" needs to back it up. You were too lazy to bother.

                • Yep, I'm getting lazy. I'm getting tired of defending the obvious on a site full of people that drank the kool-aid. I will be constantly bombarded with "Google it", "do your own research", and some variation on "everyone knows this" when I question the validity of the virtues of EVs and renewable energy but If I do that to defend nuclear power and synthesized fuels then I'm the bad guy. I'm getting tired of the bullshit and the bias of people on this site.

                  Here's some real world data that you can look up

              • You made some very strong, supposedly factual statements:

                "Natural gas cars don't require large infrastructure changes but EVs do" (what?)

                "I saw real world numbers, and they don't add up for EVs" (your only source actually says the opposite of this)

                "EVs will not solve our energy problems" (with the implied corollary that some other vehicle might, since otherwise why is it relevant that EVs don't singlehandedly solve the problem?).

                When you are making assertions, it is incumbent upon you to support them with e

      • Natural gas is cleaner for the environment than running an ICE.
        Especially if it's a big natural gas plant in a centralized location, and not small ones in thousands of cars.

        • Natural gas is cleaner for the environment than running an ICE.
          Especially if it's a big natural gas plant in a centralized location, and not small ones in thousands of cars.

          I didn't see any numbers. Can anyone show some numbers? Maybe people missed my request for numbers because it was only in the subject line. I'll make myself clearer then, if someone wants to be convincing on the utility of electric vehicles on lowering CO2 emissions then they should show some numbers.
          Here's some numbers: http://www.withouthotair.com/ [withouthotair.com]

          Yes, natural gas is cleaner than gasoline. I say it would then be a good idea to burn the natural gas in the car instead of gasoline. There is more than on

          • If you can't find numbers to show a natural gas turbine producing electricity for an EV is cleaner than burning gasoline in a ICE. Well you haven't been looking very hard. Or paying any attention at all to the topic.

            In the time it took you to copy paste your spiel, you could have just looked it up.

            Here's a number. Zero. The amount of effort you took to find your own answer.

            • If you can't find numbers to show a natural gas turbine producing electricity for an EV is cleaner than burning gasoline in a ICE. Well you haven't been looking very hard. Or paying any attention at all to the topic.

              I'm agreeing with you, because I looked up the numbers. Did you even read my post before replying?

              In the time it took you to copy paste your spiel, you could have just looked it up.

              I looked up a lot of things. I'm asking for numbers so I can know what other people know. I can't read people's minds but I can read their posted comments.

              Here's a number. Zero. The amount of effort you took to find your own answer.

              The question is not what is in some government database, the question is what people believe the truth is, because it is possible they are misinformed. I want to hear the argument people are making for electric vehicles. I want to know why they advocate

          • you are linking to a site for your data that hasn't been updated since 2015 - no wonder you are so out of date.
            • Since 2008, actually. And the author died five years ago, so you won't get any newer info from him.

            • Feel free to update me then. Why is it that so many complain about my data and yet do not offer data of their own? Here's a guess, because the data isn't there to support their position. Prove me wrong. I know you can't.

          • Here's some numbers: http://www.withouthotair.com/ [withouthotair.com]

            If that is your source for numbers, then it needs to be perhaps remarked that this book is like thirteen years old. Furthermore, chances are that lots of its numbers predate its publishing by many further years still -- I've seen that happen with other literature. For some more mature technologies this may not matter all that much but it's disastrous to use twenty year old numbers to argue about some newer things. For sake of example, MacKay's running figure of affordable PV panels having an average 10% eff

            • For sake of example, MacKay's running figure of affordable PV panels having an average 10% efficiency is laughable today. I'm not sure you can even purchase something below 17% these days, and the average in shops seems to be around 19-20%. If your numbers "don't add up" and these are your sources, then it's no wonder.

              A doubling of PV efficiency does not change the numbers in any significant way. Dr. MacKay estimated that nations like the UK would have to cover half of the nation with wind and solar power to meet their existing power needs. If you double the efficiency then instead of half it is a quarter. This is a laughable solution to the problem of meeting the energy needs of the people in UK.

              UK needs nuclear power. The changes in technology since this book was published do not change that. UK needs nuclear powe

          • Okay, some numbers

            Gas (H2) powered car 254 kWh per 100 km
            Petrol powered car 80 kWh per 100 km.
            Electric car 20 kWh per 100 km

            the source is an article from the very page you linked to [cnn.com]. LPG will be something between the first two.

            However, the crucial thing here is that you can use renewable energy to directly power the car which makes it much cheaper than alternatives and thus practical to implement as well as vastly reducing emissions. You have seen my numbers on that in the past. If, in future, someone work

      • >"Where is the electricity for these electric cars going to come from? Likely from natural gas. How does that help anything?"

        What tons of people don't realize is- Who cares?

        Many of us (myself included) don't really care that much about carbon. I want an electric vehicle because:

        1) They are going to be WAY more reliable due to far fewer parts.
        2) Far less maintenance, both time and money.
        3) No need to get gas. Almost all my travel is short, so I can meet all my energy needs from home. And probably from

    • That said, I hope it doesn't become a compliance car where they only sell a few thousand, then complain that only a few thousand had bought them, and they are too small of a market.
      This particular car might be that.
      But most of the world is shifting to electric cars rapidly. So they will soon have a next generation car.

    • Toyota has already made compliance EVs like the electric version of the RAV4 that was sold in California. (There were two generations; one was sold from 1997 until 2003, the other was sold in 2013 and 2014.) This is their first dedicated EV platform, and the first electric model that the company plans to bring to full production.

    • Hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles *are* EVs, if the hydrogen comes from electrolysis rather than reforming of natural gas. Certainly, FCVs are electric drive. The main problem is, most commercially-available hydrogen *does* come from reformed natural gas. Which overall ends up, **at best**, emitting about as much CO2 as electric power running through a battery produced from natural gas-fueled power plants. Difference is, BEV emissions are based on the total mix of power sources for the grid, which in many places

  • Wonder if this car's radio tunes 1030 out of Boston...

  • by the company that is telling the congress "we can't innovate as fast as the others do, please wait for us, slow the other EV makers because our plans are still considering an oil future". Dinosaurs. They'll go their way.

  • Is Japanese for, "we don't have the balls to call Musk a retard to his face or behind his back."

  • Wing + theater (Score:5, Insightful)

    by markdavis ( 642305 ) on Friday October 29, 2021 @07:50PM (#61940335)

    >"Toyota is also offering the bZ4X with an optional "wing-shaped" steering wheel"

    Sigh. Really? More gimmicks. Also looks like the huge, non-integrated "TV theater in center" concept is catching on like a disease. Along with an ugly, puny "dash" (with no analog speedometer?) Hey, at least it might have actual controls at the wheel?

    And of course, SUV only.

    Still waiting for an electric Japanese luxury performance sports sedan. And waiting. Just make an electric Q50 or something without changing anything else about it. Maybe we are getting closer.

    • It really is reminiscent of the way Microsoft copied Apple on some things. Musk has defined what a successful EV is, at least in the eyes of the auto makers. Those of us who want conventional controls in something other than an SUV style are SOL for now.

      It'll take some time. The EV industry is young, but I'm holding out hope for something simple and functional, handles well, easy to fix, reasonably priced, and doesn't phone home.

      The real hurdle is the charging network. Toyota can say it's got DCFC, but

      • >"It'll take some time. The EV industry is young, but I'm holding out hope for something simple and functional, handles well, easy to fix, reasonably priced, and doesn't phone home."

        Exactly. I know I am not alone, and you (and others) are proving it.

        I don't want a self-driving car.
        I don't want something watching or tracking me.
        I don't want all my controls on some damn touch screen.
        I don't want my info display on the side of me.
        I don't want a square or "half" steering wheel.
        I don't want some econobox.
        I d

        • I want better public & mass transportation so I never have to think about cars ever again, well maybe taxis for edge-case scenarios. There's far more important things in life. Then again, I don't live in suburban hell.

          • I actually did this for a number of years and it's a great answer. Unfortunately, a lot of people got turned on to urban living and I'm priced way, way out of the nearest major city where that kind of lifestyle makes sense. When I lived in DC, I parked the old Buick I inherited from my Dad. After a few months when it had issues I asked myself why I was bothering to pay for parking, insurance, etc. I got rid of it and decided to get a car-sharing membership in case I ever felt like driving again. I live

            • In north America, most towns used to have tram services & they were very popular. Downtowns were nice places to live with all the amenities everyone needed within walking distance. Then all that was torn up and redesigned around private car ownership by the auto industry. They want everyone to need cars.

        • For the record, with almost every line of that statement you're describing a chevy bolt.

          Not all EVs follow the tesla plan. And the more of them they are, and the more mundane they become, the more "normal" EVs there will be.

          • >"For the record, with almost every line of that statement you're describing a chevy bolt."

            Almost. But it lacks the needed range and performance. And I much prefer Japanese styling, layout, and construction (except, obviously, not this latest Toyota). The battery fiasco with the Bolt certainly doesn't help.

            Chevy has even completely removed the Bolt from the market- it isn't even on their website. What is there now? Two damn SUVs. Sigh.

            • Yeah :( and that is disappointing.

              The battery fiasco has been a real kick in the gut as an owner. I really love this car and want to recommend it to everyone and instead this is happening.

              My one solace is that when they replace the batteries in mine, the range will go up --- it's getting the newer model battery so it's going up to 259 miles. That said, what I *really* want is for there to be a new generation of Bolt with faster charging (50kW makes long trips annoying), and with the stank that's on this c

              • For me, I am hoping for the magic range of 300miles. Mostly because I don't trust that 300 means 300 in the "real world" or after several years of use. 250 is what I really need. I can easily get 350 miles, real-world, in my ICE car. That is with spirited driving and A/C.

                It is a shame about the Bolt battery issues. It really isn't completely GM's fault, either (last I read).

                • I think we'll get there! 300 miles + 150kW+ fast charging is already here for new cars, and would basically eliminate any remaining inconveniences to EVs in my life. As it is, for me with my driving patterns, range has thus far proved to be a problem twice in a year, and it's only once been the case that I've just ended up sitting there for an hour with nothing to do (late at night in a rainstorm). But I'd be more willing to take long trips if filling up to 80% was a 15 minute affair. The actual experie

    • with no analog speedometer?

      An analog speedometer is pointless in a car. From an operational point of view the driver is interested in current absolute speed as their job is to maintain that speed to some external reference (speed limit). They are not interested in the relative change of the speed since there's no immediate impact to going over or under the limit, just the absolute value while they glance down.

      Taking research from the airline industry on HMI points to a digital readout being the *better* choice for the speed of a car.

      • >"An analog speedometer is pointless in a car. "

        [First, modern definition- analog means a graph or pointer display, not just a number. It doesn't matter if it is a digital display creating an analog facsimile.]

        Your statement is your preference. It is not pointless to have an analog speedometer or any other type of analog display. It is exactly like saying that all clocks should be digital.

        There are situations where analog and digital are superior. The solution is that the user should have a CHOICE as

        • I liked the analog gauges I had in the 2003 Mazda and some earlier Toyotas and a Honda. But digital (with numbers instead of graphic) is fine too. Easier to see if you're in a certain speed ballpark with a quick glance at a needle and scale, but one can learn to see numbers quickly too.

          Behind the scenes, the gauges have been "digital" for a long time. Even my 03 Mazda, and 01 Camry were technically digital - had a needle, but the speed signal came from the ABS computer not some gadget geared to the transmis

        • Your statement is your preference.

          No it's not. My statement is based on years of HMI research showing when a display should be analog (the definition you used is precisely the one I was using as well), and when it should be digital. You deviating from what has been tested as the objectively "better" option is a preference.

          It is exactly like saying that all clocks should be digital.

          And you missed my point. Whether an analogue or digital clock readout is better is entirely based the purpose for which you are using a clock. To tell the exact time in the fastest possible way it should be digital. To sho

    • and of course, SUV only.

      That's when I stopped reading. Honda similarly is late to the game, their current plans are for GM to build them an electric ... SUV.

      Still waiting for an electric Japanese luxury performance sports sedan. And waiting. Just make an electric Q50 or something without changing anything else about it. Maybe we are getting closer.

      How's about even an electric sedan / hatchback with good quality, useful range, and a price that isn't completely ludicrous, and that doesn't suffer any fatal flaws. The Leaf sure d

  • until they tell you how much it costs, and you can order one.

    I mean there are probably hundreds if not thousands of worker bees, who's job it is to price things within companies like Toyota

  • Just says improves visibility. Of what? Is the car that poorly designed?

    Maybe little ol' granny who's head is even with the dash? (You know what I mean, we've all seen the car with no head in it.)

  • Toyota vehicles are overpriced and still have interiors that quickly deteriorate in the sun.

  • Good, if it is self driving there is space for someone to sit facing the driver during trips.

  • The front-wheel-drive version is equipped with a single 150 kW motor while the all-wheel-drive version is equipped with an 80 kW motor on each axle.

    *blinks*

    My Tesla Model X has a 375 kW rear motor and a 193 kW front motor. The smaller of the two motors is bigger than the sum of the two motors in this thing. The Model Y uses 69 kW and 201 kW motors, so even that stomps this into the ground power-wise, all while getting comparable miles per kWh to Toyota's offering.

    The reason Tesla uses two very different motors is so they can use the more powerful rear motor when you need a lot of power, then turn off power to it entirely and let the smaller, more eff

    • That depends on how many Toyotas you can buy for the price of a Model X. Not everyone needs all this power. Your Model X has bare more than half the power as compared to Plaid X currently on sale, does that make your X underpowered and not valuable? Model S Plaid is left in the dust in any Test by Rimac Nevera, does it mean it's underpowered with its 1000hp? Compared to the Nevera, your X is hopelessly underpowered.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by dgatwood ( 11270 )

        That depends on how many Toyotas you can buy for the price of a Model X. Not everyone needs all this power. Your Model X has bare more than half the power as compared to Plaid X currently on sale, does that make your X underpowered and not valuable?

        The Model X is overkill, and the Plaid variants are insane. The more interesting comparison is how many Toyotas you can buy for the price of a Model Y, which is what most of those numbers were from.

        Unfortunately for Toyota, the answer to that question is approximately one, if you ignore the fact that Tesla currently isn't building any of their base model. Then again, Toyota probably won't either (for the same reason), so they're basically in the same price class, but the Toyota is completely outclassed to

  • It wouldn't be a bad idea to copy what Musk does at Tesla, but I don't think copying the way he names his children is going to help.

  • The 'face' of the car looks like it's wearing a facemask. Some 'Muricans might be upset by that & become aggressive & violent, but I guess they can change that feature for the USA version.
  • This is a delaying action by Toyota until they can get solid state batteries ready for production. Companies don’t want to exhaust the US government tax credit by selling too many EVs until they ar ready.

  • Steer by wire???

    No thank you.

    Is that even currently legal?

    • If you have electric power steering, which nearly all cars do now, you have the basic hardware in place for "steer by wire." Most are set up as electric assist of the old-style mechanical steering, but they can easily be set up so they steer by themselves - the foundation of lanekeeping and ultimately autonomous driving.

  • Nice to see them finally GTFO of the way. It's been really sad to watch the decay of Japanese automotive and tech industries.

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