Hyundai Shuts Down Its Engine Development Team Amid Focus On Electric Cars (electrek.co) 215
Hyundai announced that it is shutting down its internal combustion engine development team as the automaker focuses on electric cars. Electrek reports: For 40 years the Korean automaker has been developing internal combustion engines to use in its vehicle lineup, but no more. The Korea Economic Daily reports that Hyundai's new R&D chief Park Chung-kook confirmed in an email to employees that they are shutting down new engine development: "Now, it is inevitable to convert into electrification. Our own engine development is a great achievement, but we must change the system to create future innovation based on the great asset from the past."
Hyundai reportedly had 12,000 people working on engines, but they are now being transferred to EV powertrain development: "Researchers at the engine design unit have moved to the electrification design center, leaving only some to modify existing engines. The powertrain system development center is transforming into an electrification test center, while the powertrain performance development center is becoming an electrification performance development center." Park added on the change: "The immediate task is to develop innovative vehicles that can dominate the future market. This reorganization will be an important starting point for change ahead in the new year."
Hyundai reportedly had 12,000 people working on engines, but they are now being transferred to EV powertrain development: "Researchers at the engine design unit have moved to the electrification design center, leaving only some to modify existing engines. The powertrain system development center is transforming into an electrification test center, while the powertrain performance development center is becoming an electrification performance development center." Park added on the change: "The immediate task is to develop innovative vehicles that can dominate the future market. This reorganization will be an important starting point for change ahead in the new year."
Been eyeing an Ioniq 5 for a good while now (Score:2)
It's reportedly an excellent car, and its retro tech looks keep growing on me for some reason.
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That sounds dangerous, you really should have that checked out by a doctor or something.
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I'm meaning to, but i get such good mileage...
being investigated (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm sure it has nothing whatsoever to with engine failures, fires, and a pending investigation.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/wire... [go.com]
Maybe when your engines are shit for years, even after multiple recalls, and then you get investigated, its not actually about electric cars.
Re: being investigated (Score:2)
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This is interesting because I have not heard anything about it in Europe. I wonder if it's just US models, if the engines are different to meet the US regulations.
In Europe Hyundai and Kia always come at the top of reliability charts and are generally seen as very good value for money. Their EVs are top notch and quite affordable too.
I can't wait... (Score:3, Insightful)
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My wife's e-up! is louder than my petrol golf at residential-area speeds, due to the stupidly loud warning sound that's required by law. And at higher speeds it's all about the tire and wind noise anyway.
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That noise regulation irritates the piss out of me. I hope it will get ditched, or at least quietened, as more noisy ICE vehicles come off the road. My Zoe has a button to turn it off, but I think I've heard that from 2021 onwards that ability has been removed.
Re: I can't wait... (Score:2)
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As I say, not an issue in my car, cos there's a button to turn it off. But in future, maybe I'll do that...
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I personally have stopped giving money to blind charities as a result of their campaigning to make EV's produce artificial noise so they can continue to engage in the reckless behaviour of using road noise to determine whether it is safe to step out into the road.
The thing is there are already millions of silent road journeys already taking place and have been for decades in the form of bicycles. I knew someone personally who was killed by someone stepping out into the the road without looking and knocking
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Re:I can't wait... (Score:4)
I find that the only time modern gas-powered cars are loud and smelly is because the idiot owner wants it that way. My modern Honda just purrs, and you can barely hear it from 10 feet away. Were my neighbor down the road has a jacked up truck with straight pipes on it. I can hear that idiot coming a mile away; in my apartment with the door closed. No idea why that moron hasn't got a ticket yet or his POS impounded.
Prolly not the same skillsets (Score:2)
"Hyundai reportedly had 12,000 people working on engines, but they are now being transferred to EV powertrain development"
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I am sort of curious as to what those 12,000 people were doing.
In a modern R&D setup you need R&D designers, CAD jockeys, simulation techs, a prototyping team, a production adaptation team, a supply chain and material management group, and market research. I don't see any one of those departments needing more than 50 people tops. Double that and you still haven't accounted for 1,000 people.
Corporate bloat.
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When you add in designing and building manufacturing lines, the engineering requirements tend to multiply.
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Some company has to end up with all those engineers. May as well employ them all themselves, since they're all intelligent and productive.
Only Western next-quarter thinking sees bloat.
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It's the EXACT same mindset that leads to job ads in the West that asks for 10 years of experience for a technology that only existed for 2. "Unless they have that exact technology on their CV, they must be complete idiots and cannot do anything else other than what's expressely written on their CV".
Maybe one of the reasons why Hyundai
Re: Prolly not the same skillsets (Score:2)
Eastern values (Score:3)
Hyundai reportedly had 12,000 people working on engines, but they are now being transferred to EV powertrain development
It's refreshing to see a modern company understand that experience and intelligence are valuable things and just because the words don't match between the jobs doesn't mean their engineers can't engineer other things.
This is what the "merit warriors" in the West can't understand. Your idea of "merit" is stupid if you can't take into account factors that aren't immediately obvious, and it's hard to take the "we should hire on merit" crowd seriously. They have no self-awareness as to how utterly stupid their trivial idea of merit is.
You had to know this was going to happen (Score:3)
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Re:Big mistake (Score:5, Insightful)
What, you think they'll just stop building ICEs overnight?
This is a smart move. The writing has been on the wall for traditional cars for some time already. As prices start going down (and, rest assured, they will) you'll see electric vehicles adoption skyrocket.
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Don't forget to build a charging station every 520 miles [caranddriver.com].
Re:Big mistake (Score:4, Informative)
Don't forget to build a charging station every 520 miles [caranddriver.com].
There are about 4.09 million miles of road in the US and about 150,000 filling stations. So that averages out to about one filling station every 27 miles as it stands. Obviously the distribution isn't really even and it's more of a hub and spoke arrangement. There's no good reason that the same level of infrastructure can't be built for electric cars.
Re: Big mistake (Score:3, Insightful)
Molecules of gasoline can be stockpiled in storage tanks for future use. Shelf life is many months.
Electrons cannot be stockpiled to nearly the same degree. That's why a battery that can hold a charge to move a car 300 miles weighs 1000 lbs but the gasoline to do so weighs under 100 lbs.
It doesn't matter how many charging stations you have. Unless you have a magic battery that can deliver comparable energy densities to hydrocarbons, there will always be a use case for hydrocarbons (likely in generating thos
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>If even a partial charges takes (say) one hour
So why do my full charges take less than half that and partial charges around 10-15 minutes with plenty of chargers available whenever I arrive at one.
Re: Big mistake (Score:4, Informative)
Having done a few cross-country trips in an EV, I can say that I have never been at a charger for one hour for a partial charge. Not even once. And, I've only had to wait for a plug one time in over 60,000 miles of EV travel.
It's entirely possible to build out charger density to meet demand - there's at least one company doing it.
Re: Big mistake (Score:4)
I have to drive to the gas station every week to fill up. With an EV, I can charge at home every night.
What about those of us that live in apartments? I would be already driving around in a Tesla if I had a decent way to charge it. For me, the only option is a long ass extension cord tossed of my 3rd story balcony. I don't see that happening.
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This is not an unsolvable problem.
1) If you own a car at all, where do you park?
If in a garage (part of the apartment or not), then put chargers in the garages. This is accomplished by providing incentives or even laws in place to get garage owners/operators to install EV charging infrastructure, just like they do for ADA accessible parking and off-street bicycle storage.
If on the street, then curbside EV charging is also a thing that's starting to gain momentum.
Note that in neither case would charging nece
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Battery density has been improving at about 10% a year for longer than 50 years and the rate is only increasing. We're in the equivalent of the 1930's ICE cars in terms of development. People forget just how shitty ICE cars were as recent as the 1980s. In 20 years battery packs will be much smaller and charge faster than they do today. As fast as filling a gas tank? Probably not, that much power needs special handling but si
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but since most people will be charging at home needing to charge in five minutes will be rare.
If you never go on long trips or drive for a living, sure, you'll never need to charge in five minutes. I mean, who does that? /s
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If you are driving more than 200 miles each and every day, you are an edge case. And you have been for a very long time. [statista.com]
Daily miles driven in the US is actually falling, and well below the range on literally any plug-in EV on the market. If you need more range, buy more range. Otherwise, save money up front and charge at home always having a "full tank" in the morning. Who the fuck would want to stand at a fuel pump when it's below freezing if you don't have to?
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I'm guessing, but 99% of people don't take long trips in their car 99% of the time. I'm sure many will comment how they drive 1000 mile trips 3 times a week, and I agree this isn't the solution for you. But you are an extreme outlier. Most people commute less than 100 miles/day and can go wherever they need on a single charge.
Perhaps the new model is to rent a vehicle when you need to go farther than the range of your car, and the rest of the time you charge at home or work.
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This is a disingenuous justification.
The whole: "This will all fail because of the extremely rare extreme edge cases" is disingenuous right from the start. The argument you're making is a classic ploy. Some outlandish "problem" is presented and then someone explains how you could work around the problem and then your type turns around and and points out how ridiculous the solution is as if it weren't in the context of a ridiculous problem to start with.
1. Renting the gas car won't be an option if all the car companies, pushed by governments and extrajudicial social pressure (direct or via finance) stop making gas cars.
No one said it would need to be a gas car, just a longer range vehicle. That could just as e
Re: Big mistake (Score:5, Funny)
You sound like a CRT guy confidently explaining why LCDs will never take off.
(You seem not to have noticed that most people charge EVs at home, which is not a trick ICE vehicles ever learned, and is tremendously convenient and compelling for anyone who can do it -- a huge number of people)
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Unless you are doing seriously high mileage, you will overall save time by charging at home. It might add 30 minutes to a 10 hour trip, but you will get back far more than that over the course of a year by not having to visit petrol stations and wait while the car is refuelled. You will also save time and money on maintenance.
For 99.9% of people, if they sit down and do the maths an EV is going to be a big win. The only issue is the higher up-front cost, but even that is rapidly coming down.
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The only issue is the higher up-front cost, but even that is rapidly coming down.
And the thousands of dollars to replace your battery pack which can only be done by the dealer. Or the excessive wear on your tires which means replacing them more frequently.
Re: Big mistake (Score:4, Interesting)
Battery pack replacements are extremely rare, and usually done under warranty. We are getting to the point where some very old Leafs are having replacements, but the number of them which are in good enough condition (i.e. the rest of the car isn't worn out) to warrant it is very low. There is a guy in Belgium who does them, Muxsan. If you replace the original pack you will get much more range than when the car was new due to newer chemistry, or you can add a second pack by sacrificing some boot space.
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Why would you have to replace tyres more frequently on an EV? I can't follow this logic.
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The only issue is the higher up-front cost, but even that is rapidly coming down.
And the thousands of dollars to replace your battery pack which can only be done by the dealer. Or the excessive wear on your tires which means replacing them more frequently.
That's the biggest advantage that ICE vehicles have. Engine replacement is free.
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That's the biggest advantage that ICE vehicles have. Engine replacement is free.
But how long is that going to last? The only do that because its good for business with so few EV out there. But once everyone has one you bet that will go right out the window. Why sell them a car when you can sell it to them twice?
Re: Big mistake (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, because nobody in the history of automotive transport has ever had to pay thousands of dollars on a new engine or gearbox, which by and large is done at a dealership due to use of proprietary tools and software for diagnosis.
Guess what? The life of the battery pack isn't that much different from the designed life of an engine or transmission. As it turns out, owning a car and expecting it to drive without any problems for a few decades isn't realistic, no matter what the energy source is.
Re: Big mistake (Score:4, Funny)
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The technical infrastructure required to turn that gasoline into motion is proving to be more complicated and prone to failure than what's required for EVs.
Actually, of the two I would say the infrastructure required to run a majority EV will be far more fragile. There are places now where the electrical grid can barely hold the current load. Looking at you Texas and California. What do you think will happen when millions of EV are placed on the grid?
An if you think all these electric grids will just upgrade the grids, I got a bridge to sell you. California can't even get through the tape to upgrade the current grid to support the current load.
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If you want fast charging it might take awhile just to string more 3 phase lines to where you want them. And you will need more of them in countryside especially in the north. The range of an EV takes a big hit in the winter, not just because the battery is too cold, and you are pushing through snow, but you also the defrosters, heater, and probably the wipers and headlights. Heat is a byproduct of an ICE, and very useful in the winter.
I still haven't seen an electric car on the street. I assume they reall
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I live in a failry affluent area (Vancouver, BC) and every time I'm on the road I see a bunch of Teslas. Hell, today I saw my first VW ID4 in the wild. EVs are thick on the ground around here.
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Wipers and headlights? An EV battery can push 1.5 tons of metal down a road at 65mph for two hours or more. Headlights and wipers aren't even a rounding error for range.
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If you want fast charging it might take awhile just to string more 3 phase lines to where you want them. And you will need more of them in countryside especially in the north.
In my experience there's a lot of what's called "open country" that has power transmission lines strung through it. It's open space that allows for easily-built charging pads, and the power is right there overhead, waiting to be used.
Writing this just raised another thought though. When the grid goes down and transportation is needed, gasoline can still be had from tanks by manual means - there's no ready equivalent when it comes to electrified transport. Additionally, if I run out of gas in my ICE I can ca
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[] The range of an EV takes a big hit in the winter, not just because the battery is too cold, and you are pushing through snow, but you also the defrosters, heater, and probably the wipers and headlights. Heat is a byproduct of an ICE, and very useful in the winter.
I still haven't seen an electric car on the street. I assume they really exist.
Well, I actually live in cold climate so I don't have to guess based on a lack of knowledge, which it seems you do. Here in Norway, the Electric Vehicle marketshare for cars were 74% in November. I own one myself, and have been driving them for about five years. Also in winter conditions.
One big advantage of EVs is the much improved heating over ICEs. Since the heat is using the battery and not a cold combustion engine, you get heat immediately. They are usually built to be very efficient, including using h
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Here in Norway, the Electric Vehicle marketshare for cars were 74% in November.
Can confirm. I visited Oslo a couple years ago, and even back then literally every other car you'd see in streets was an EV.
Re: Big mistake (Score:2)
There is a good reason that level of infrastructure won't be built for EV -- charging at home. While not everyone can do it, there is a bit insignificant portion of the population that can charge up an EV at home. Compare that to the non-existent portion that can gas up at home.
The charging infrastructure is necessarily going to be different than the liquid fueling one.
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Don't forget to build a charging station every 520 miles [caranddriver.com].
I don't think that will be a problem any more than building a shit ton of gas stations was a problem when we transitioned from the horse-n-buggy to the internal combustion engine car a century ago, gas stations sprang up like mushrooms all over the US and so will charging stations unless individual US states actually start banning them for ideological reasons. These charging stations will not be any less densely spaced than gas stations are today which maxes out at around 150 miles with the average spacing
Re:Big mistake (Score:5, Insightful)
They also said that they're going to stop designing new engines, but said nothing about stopping the modification of older designs.
People seem to forget that many of the cars on the road now are based off of engine designs were originally created in the 1990s. They often get tweaked multiple times over their lifetime, which can span decades.
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They also said that they're going to stop designing new engines, but said nothing about stopping the modification of older designs.
Yes
The helpful summary says they are going to continue.
Re:Big mistake (Score:4, Informative)
I must have had some pretty god damn strong hallucinogens when I've driven an EV from coast to coast, twice. I mean, according to you, that would be impossible due to the shamble of a grid and absolute lack of working 250kW superchargers.
No wait, it was just fine. And there are more 250kW superchargers today than there was a year ago, and they are very effective at moving electrons back across the anodes in the battery pack.
You're kind of a fucking moron and have no idea what you are talking about.
Re:Big mistake (Score:5, Insightful)
When Hyundai realizes that electric cars, SUVs and work trucks are not adequate to a great % of the 190 countries in the world
Name one where no EVs are viable.
Name one automotive market of any notable size where most drivers' needs cannot be met with EVs.
Name one market in which Hyundai participates where most drivers' needs cannot be met with EVs.
it'll be too late to re-assembre an ICE R&D team
Why wouldn't you just license one in like more and more companies are doing now? Or even buy complete powerplants?
and innovate again there
Name one internal combustion engine innovation produced by Hyundai.
ceding market share to acttors who hedged their bets.
The only probable future in which EVs do not completely dominate the automotive market going forwards is one in which human society has collapsed and we're fighting over cans of food.
This is Hyundai's loss.
You're the one at a loss.
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Don't forget to build a charging station every 520 miles [caranddriver.com].
Don't forget go gas. We have to put on our masks and stick some blades and spikes on our vehicles and raid people with fortresses built around an oil well and a small refinery. We might also need a thunderdome and some flamethrower guitars, but those can come later.
Honestly, I think this may be the reason why some people don't want electric cars and solar energy, etc. It ruins the apocalypse! They had a whole bunch of documentaries to base their plans on, and now that's all ruined by electric cars (Note tha
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Don't forget to build a charging station every 520 miles [caranddriver.com].
Don't forget go gas. We have to put on our masks and stick some blades and spikes on our vehicles and raid people with fortresses built around an oil well and a small refinery. We might also need a thunderdome and some flamethrower guitars, but those can come later.
Honestly, I think this may be the reason why some people don't want electric cars and solar energy, etc. It ruins the apocalypse!
The Deacon would like a word with you.
Re:Big mistake (Score:4, Informative)
ICE engines are rapidly becoming the domain of specialized companies.
Other than the big automakers, no one makes engines. If you restore a classic car with a blown engine, you're likely not to fix it, but just buy a brand new crate motor (Ford, GM, etc, all sell crate motors). Yes, even the high end ultra modern injection engines are available as crate motors, complete with ECU and often a body computer.
Heck, modern auto manufacturing has the engines produced elsewhere from the car - Ford, GM, etc, have engine factories that produce the engines, then they're shipped to their production plants.
Hyundai stopping development of new motors isn't unusual, they're probably just going to buy engines in bulk from some other company, probably one that makes more innovative, more efficient engines. (Let's not forget that Kia/Hyundai motors are really bad, and Hyundai is pushing back at any attempts to recall basically every vehicle made in the past 10 years because the engines could die in a horrendous fire. Think the Bolt "do not park indoors" was dumb? Hyundai has a few small very quiet recalls going on doing just that as well).
And it isn't unusual, this is true in other industries using some form of ICE engines - the engines are made by another company. Heck, diesel vehicles often have a choice (Detroit Diesel, Caterpillar, etc). And many engines are shared between each other - there are Mazdas with Ford "ecoboost" engines in them etc. etc. etc.
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Yes, even the high end ultra modern injection engines are available as crate motors, complete with ECU and often a body computer.
As per a Slashdot story a few weeks ago - I'm too lazy to look it up - Ford is now selling electric crate motors as well.
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there are Mazdas with Ford "ecoboost" engines in them etc. etc. etc.
Ford owned a significant piece of Mazda for a few decades, so that one isn't surprising.
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"Name one automotive market of any notable size where most drivers' needs cannot be met with EVs."
Depends on your definition of notable size. It will be awhile before an EV is a viable choice on the drive from Missoula to Glendive on Montana 200.
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It will be awhile before an EV is a viable choice on the drive from Missoula to Glendive on Montana 200.
Thankfully, I'm not familiar with the area in question, but I C&P'd your route plan into Google and it told me that it's only 227.5 miles, which is within the range capabilities of several existing EVs you can buy in the USA today [cnet.com], and several more which will be available for sale within the next two years. Maybe there's a joke which went past my head, though. Not over it, we're talking about Montana here, but still.
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You must have made a mistake, since it's actually 516 miles [google.com]. There's one Supercharger on that route in Great Falls (plus ones at either endpoint), making the longest leg from Great Falls to Glendive at 350 miles. Of the Tesla models, only the Model S has enough range for that (Model 3 LR might squeak by too but that's cutting it way too close under the best possible conditions). And as AC below noted, doing this in winter would be even tougher.
For now, the most practical way to drive this route is to tak
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just some heavy duty connectors that can take 440+ volts DC safely
Given the accessible cut points, those should be easy enough to add.
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Just drove across Wyoming, Utah, and Idaho two weeks ago in below freezing temperatures, with winter tires that also reduce range. Had no problems charging, or crossing the Rockies.
You are full of shit, and just keep posting these lies over and over. And there's a hell of a lot of EVs on the road every single day in California and I haven't seen a single story about catastrophic grid collapse - I'm pretty sure an event like that would make the news.
You are either an industry shill, or a useful idiot. Eit
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Those hours add up, and one may not be wanting to wait around while some skulker is trying to cut your tires with a razor blade in order to scam or just rob you
I'd prefer to just stay TF out of MT
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I'd prefer to just stay TF out of MT
Western MT is kind of nice, if you like mountains and such. And if you're just passing through.
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You problem is when say 80% of cars have gone EV. Well lets assume that those that do the most mileage will be the last to covert so that accounts for 70% of fuel sales. Well filling stations are run on very right margins so a 70% drop in fuel sales will lead to around 70% of filling stations closing.
All of a sudden filling up an ICE vehicle is going to be an awful lot more of a chore.
I would further note in the EU+UK driving eight hours with only a five minute stop, you better make sure you don't have an a
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I can answer that first one easily....the US south and midwest. There simply aren't enough charging stations close enough together to make it feasible to own an electric car. As a matter of fact, in the last year, I've seen a grand total of 1. I have a Hyundai I bought six months ago. If they go this route, my next car most likely won't be a Hyundai.
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I can answer that first one easily....the US south and midwest. There simply aren't enough charging stations close enough together to make it feasible to own an electric car.
That might be true, if you do quite a lot of driving per day. Most people will only ever need a charging station on a long trip. Worst case you can likely find an RV park which will let you charge there, it's become common enough that many of them have a fixed fee for this. Most people will never have a problem. You should check out plugshare [plugshare.com], there are actually a lot more chargers in the area you're talking about than you're aware of. Just because you don't seem them doesn't mean they aren't there, just li
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Name one where no EVs are viable.
Anywhere in the world where you don't have an unlimited supply of parking spots with charging stations and sufficient grid capacity.
That is, basically mostly everywhere except a few densely populated regions in the "developed" world, where electric cars "dominate" at about a fraction of 1% of all vehicles.
Name one automotive market of any notable size where most drivers' needs cannot be met with EVs.
You have, for example, Germany, where it is not unusual for people to be stuck in a traffic jams for hours in very cold weather, which lasts several months a year. For them, EVs aren't really an option, as
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First off, if it's so normal for Germans to be stuck for hours in traffic jams, I'm sure you'll be able to provide evidence to demonstrate just how frequent that is.
Second, you appear not to know how EVs work. Sitting in traffic for hours on end with a heat exchange pump going is easy for them. They'll burn 1.5kW per hour. My little Renault Zoe could do this for more than 24 hours without issue. If the traffic is slow and stop-start, the range will go up anyway, as EV ranges increase when its slow and use t
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It is just a quick websearch away:
https://www.spiegel.de/auto/pe... [spiegel.de]
"The average commuter loses 40 hours per year in a traffic jam."
But that is not really a big deal for an EV in Germany. The fact the majority of population rents apartments instead of owning a house and hence cannot charge at home is far more detrimental.
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I didn't make the claim; I want to know what evidence the claim-maker has.
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Name one where no EVs are viable.
Anywhere in the world where you don't have an unlimited supply of parking spots with charging stations and sufficient grid capacity.
So you can't have any EVs without an unlimited blah blah blah? First, that's stupid and wrong period. Second, you don't need an unlimited number of spots for a limited number of EVs. Do you even think, bro?
Name one automotive market of any notable size where most drivers' needs cannot be met with EVs.
You have, for example, Germany, where it is not unusual for people to be stuck in a traffic jams for hours in very cold weather
You really know nothing about EVs, do you? Like, flat zero?
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Name one where no EVs are viable.
That is, basically mostly everywhere except a few densely populated regions in the "developed" world, where electric cars "dominate" at about a fraction of 1% of all vehicles.
In Norway 16% of all cars are electric. In november 74% of all newly registered cars were electric. Norway is cold and not very densely populated.
You have, for example, Germany, where it is not unusual for people to be stuck in a traffic jams for hours in very cold weather, which lasts several months a year. For them, EVs aren't really an option, as most will have to be ferried out of such a traffic jam.
I'm living in Northern Germany. Never heard anything like this. Also more than 20% of new car registrations in Germany are electric cars. The share is rising fast.
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The only probable future in which EVs do not completely dominate the automotive market going forwards is one in which human society has collapsed and we're fighting over cans of food.
And if we want to avoid that scenario we'd better get our asses in gear and start building nuclear power infrastructure. I don't like nuclear, but at this point I think we're pretty much screwed if we don't go there.
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And if we want to avoid that scenario we'd better get our asses in gear and start building nuclear power infrastructure.
Bullshit.
I don't like nuclear
Then stop sucking nuclear's dick.
but at this point I think we're pretty much screwed if we don't go there.
False [cleantechnica.com].
Re: Name one where no EVs are viable. (Score:2)
"No" as in zero or "no" as "only in urban centers with reliable electrical power?
Not my problem but much of the world outside EUsia doesn't have reliable electrical infrastructure.
Of course those areas can make do without Hyundai so whatever that company chooses does not matter.
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"No" as in zero or "no" as "only in urban centers with reliable electrical power?
That question tells the whole story! Most humans live in urban centers, so if your vehicles are only suitable for people who live in urban centers then guess what? Your vehicles are suitable for most people.
Re: (Score:2)
You are using a broad brush to cover many use cases. Especially in rural America. I see a lot of EV adoption in the NYC metro area. But when I travel to rural VA or mid-west not so much.
What you see is only slightly relevant, though I won't go so far as to say irrelevant. But more importantly, the fact that people in the midwest don't buy EVs don't prove that EVs won't work for them. It only proves that they think they won't. A lot of that is just being constantly told by people who don't actually know shit that EVs won't suit their needs.
The EV use case right now is a secondary commuter car.
For people in bumfuck midwest nowhere, sure. That might be all it would work for, even. But a) that's not nothing and b) for people who live in urban cen
Re:Big mistake (Score:4, Insightful)
I hope you realize that finding, extracting, converting and transporting oil/fuel all the time, non-stop, every day is much more complicated, expensive and polluting than installing a few solar panels and batteries every few decades or so.
ICE vehicles are as much a dead-end as horses and buggies. Sure they'll still exist in the future but nobody should be investing time and money in those.
Re: (Score:2)
An electric car would appeal to me for camping if I could use the vehicle as a ready to go inverter. If I could pull up to a camp ground and drop like 5 200 watt panels on the ground next to the car and plug a portable AC unit in it. That'd be awesome.
If you could figure out how to directly charge the F150 Lightning's batteries with a solar controller then it could 100% do what you want. But you would almost certainly need more than 5 panels in order to produce the necessary voltage to charge the pack. I don't know what the pack voltage is but most EVs are in the hundreds of volts range and you can only hope to get up to near 250VDC with 5 panels. Then you need more headroom (ranging from a few volts to a few percent) above the output voltage for the con
Re: (Score:2)
Voltage can be changed to whatever you want it to be.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure, if you want to pay a performance penalty. Boost converters aren't free, but more importantly, they also aren't free to run.
Re: (Score:2)
Their efficiency curve is based on current draw, so the higher you boost the voltage, the more efficient they are.
They can peak out around 96-97% efficient.
The car already uses one to charge the batteries with however much power is available (This is how superchargers, 120, 240 auto-switching works)
I.e., you can charge that car with a 12v panel, or a 240v panel, and the efficiency cost is about the same.
For a Tesla, you need around 480v if you want to avoid
Re: (Score:2)
Shame you don't live in Europe, where we have a bunch of nice looking EV hatchbacks, and more to come. Cupra Born is especially nice.
Re:Big mistake (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: Big mistake (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I see you are deeply stuck in the past. What will actually happen is that Hyundai has a good change to be a large player because of this. The internal combustion engine obviously is dead. It will just take some time to reach its grave.
Re: (Score:2)
China has a near monopoly on rare earth materials and magnets
Only because they have no problem dumping the processing waste out in the open.
I recall Japan recently finding a nearby source of rare earths, for example.